What's your opinion on the laws related to domestic abuse?

Sonic Angel Knight

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I'm curious to know what the opinions of domestic laws are like. I'm from New York, so I don't know much about other states or country laws. Do you think they are good or bad? What kind of ideas can help make it better? I mostly ask cause I think that domestic related problems are much more complex to deal with than crimes committed in public where it may be less complicated to convict people of.

Guess to keep it a simple topic, let's start with family. Like a married couple with or without kids. :ninja:
 

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I think abuse victims should be able to get protection under the law. The court system is there to sort the complex mess that tends to go into the matter but I do support laws that protect victims. I also support laws that penalize people who try to abuse the system.
 

Sonic Angel Knight

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I think abuse victims should be able to get protection under the law. The court system is there to sort the complex mess that tends to go into the matter but I do support laws that protect victims. I also support laws that penalize people who try to abuse the system.
Yeah I think that makes sense. But I think most of the problem is trying to take it to court. If the only way to sort it out is in court, then it has to be easily accessible to get it done. Is likely a problem to call police and have them listen to "He said, she said" story and then just say "Nothing we can't do, is not like you're hurt or anything." Most of that makes me feel like that the only time something can be done is when a line has been crossed rather than trying to catch and prevent it before anything gets too bad. If that makes sense.:unsure:
 

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Yeah I think that makes sense. But I think most of the problem is trying to take it to court. If the only way to sort it out is in court, then it has to be easily accessible to get it done. Is likely a problem to call police and have them listen to "He said, she said" story and then just say "Nothing we can't do, is not like you're hurt or anything." Most of that makes me feel like that the only time something can be done is when a line has been crossed rather than trying to catch and prevent it before anything gets too bad. If that makes sense.:unsure:
As someone who attempted to deal with the legal challenges of bringing an abuser to court, it’s a mess. I wish it wasn’t such a mess but it’s a mess trying to avoid the “he said, she said.” Unfortunately, I think it has just ended being abused by those who have the money to get passed the tape. At the same time, I do wish people would use the courts to get things like restraining orders and such. Getting legal help can be used to create a case from. So a victim getting a restraining order and the abuser violating it, is something the courts can work with. It’s definitely a difficult process but I think that’s something that should be ironed out
 

Sonic Angel Knight

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As someone who attempted to deal with the legal challenges of bringing an abuser to court, it’s a mess. I wish it wasn’t such a mess but it’s a mess trying to avoid the “he said, she said.” Unfortunately, I think it has just ended being abused by those who have the money to get passed the tape. At the same time, I do wish people would use the courts to get things like restraining orders and such. Getting legal help can be used to create a case from. So a victim getting a restraining order and the abuser violating it, is something the courts can work with. It’s definitely a difficult process but I think that’s something that should be ironed out
I agree with that. Most of the time is just ignored because of things being difficult to prove. I understand that and all, but there still need some consideration about the fact that something is reported at all. I also believe some just don't take it seriously cause they probably don't know how to handle it, don't want to handle it or don't have enough information that warrants taking to court.

Also the people without any money really struggle to be on equal grounds. A poor family or couple can't work out stuff cause they can't pay for something like divorce or laywers or just get some support system. It puts people in tough spots that don't deserve to be ignored if they are in serious danger. Is not like asking for money, they just want legal reason to seperate if they need to without fear of their life in danger. Weather is being force to stay together cause the law says or plotting revenge after separation. (Or am I paranoid) :ninja:
 

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I agree with that. Most of the time is just ignored because of things being difficult to prove. I understand that and all, but there still need some consideration about the fact that something is reported at all. I also believe some just don't take it seriously cause they probably don't know how to handle it, don't want to handle it or don't have enough information that warrants taking to court.

Also the people without any money really struggle to be on equal grounds. A poor family or couple can't work out stuff cause they can't pay for something like divorce or laywers or just get some support system. It puts people in tough spots that don't deserve to be ignored if they are in serious danger. Is not like asking for money, they just want legal reason to seperate if they need to without fear of their life in danger. Weather is being force to stay together cause the law says or plotting revenge after separation. (Or am I paranoid) :ninja:
It can be made even worse when additional matters get involved, like children or state lines. The courts are not set up to benefit the little man, they are designed to benefit those with the money to abuse them.
 

bodefuceta

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Strictly against any law on domestic or any specific type of violence or abuse. There are already general laws on violence and such. Only lawyers benefit from laws being too complex for the normal person to read.
 

FAST6191

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It is a complicated subject, even more so if you want to try to broach subjects like "financial abuse" and "emotional abuse" as some might (both incredibly nebulous concepts though*).

"He said, she said" is pretty much the outcome demanded by the idea of fair law (you could go for the Islamic one where a woman's testimony is worth less than a man's I guess) -- Blackstone's formulation as it would generally be referred to of better to let 1000 guilty go free than punish a single innocent, and if it is going to be a criminal matter then even more so (lawyers hate assigning percentages even more than doctors hate to say how long someone has to live for much the same reasons but for criminal then beyond all reasonable doubt means 99%, civil then being preponderance of evidence which is more like 50%).

Malicious improper reporting is a problem as well. False positives even at rates of 5% makes things worthless when you might theoretically have hundreds of thousands of reported instances, even more so if merely the accusation can be life ruining (I am sure we have all seen the fun and games with various colleges/universities in the US and how they handle various claims here, especially if we do go back to the Blackstone thing).
Several reports over the years of people claiming such things, possibly as and when the police arrive turning on the waterworks, only to have it refuted by secret recordings (phones are good stuff and several people had recorded conversations or enthusiastic/more than cordial text conversations proving dates and times do not match, there was a fun one doing the rounds where a woman smacked her face into a lift not realising the lift had CCTV), or it being used to take people out of the picture for a while (seeing bad PR of having some woman's, possibly self, battered face on the front page saying the filth did nothing then turn up and man in cuffs is a thing several forces do) and just long enough to take the money and run.
If ever there was a justified reason to not stick it in crazy then this is that, though it can also be hard to tell and other things as well (several stories over the years of "oh no my hyper religious family, better lie").

Biology complicates things as well -- if doing the standard man-woman thing (though stats for lesbian relationships are truly alarming) then massive strength disparities (and general combat prowess) comes into play. To that end if the woman in that scenario starts the fight (despite what schools seem to go in for these days when it comes to fights then the one the throw the first punch without other extenuating circumstances is generally the arsehole under the law) and the man retaliates at anything like full force and proper combat skills then...
Equal rights and equal lefts, even if physics say no... things to ponder.

Psychology is also a fun one every which way you care to consider it. Abusive relationships as a general psycho pathology** and more isolated then the shame that goes for both sexes when the victim of it (women is well known but abused men when "men do not hit women" conflicts with "losing a fight to a weaker opponent is not good" makes for very unpleasant outcomes, also quite dangerous for the woman in that scenario as snapping is a very real outcome and where you might be able to eventually walk away from a hard punch after a little sit down with some unpleasant injuries the proverbial seeing red and full on rage you won't) makes this all the more tricky.

*framing also comes into this one. Controlling what someone else wears is considered as it in most places "no woman you are not going out dressed like that". What instead if you frame it as "you are free to go out dressed like that, I won't be here when you come back though" (do follow through if you issue such an ultimatum -- hollow words are not cool and won't lead to you being well considered as nobody respects weakness, might pity it but that is not the foundation for much), or indeed just leave and if they ask then state that as the reason. Same end result, though the latter is personal preference at that point. Can also be adapted for many other scenarios but still under the general remit. It also says nothing of some people like to push and test boundaries in relationships, though some call it shit tests, and have it as a way they roll.

**going to have to be the arsehole that posts a ted talk but it is quite enlightening and covers the general layout, warning signs and more.


To end on a more controversial note then black and white thinking can be hard in this as well. While I still firmly advocate for don't stick it in crazy then there are those that say don't throw away those for a mental illness ( https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/mental-disorders says 1 in 8 worldwide, https://mentalhealthfoundation.org/mental-health-statistics-2021/ for 2021 says 44.8% of US adults over 18 accessed mental health services in the last 12 months, females at 49.7% and that number set to get higher as time goes on***. It may also be one of those things rather under diagnosed, especially men but enough women also adopt "walk if off"/don't show my weakness lest I be kicked out of the pack these days. Depending upon your age then if you are looking to do the relationship thing your numbers may be even more skewed http://web.archive.org/web/20180810...8/08/online-dating-out-of-your-league/567083/ . https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/danny-baker/mental-health-and-relationships_b_5513500.html is an interesting take as well, though for me scenario 1 is also off the cards). To that end one and done is tricky if one (which could even be a destroyed wall rather than bruises) is a result of some kind of PTSD (military, law enforcement, medic, childhood, previous relationships/relationshits, twitter arguments****...) or similar concept, and that is not even considering the effects of the person doing the one if you then remove their family, kids, support structure, possibly employment and all the other things that keep people tethered to reality.

***in the US people seem to live isolated lives, possibly without children, without connection and probably extreme financial hardship both now and even more so. Some humans can handle it, will be interesting to see what goes in a few generations if that gets selected for by whatever means, most can't though as we are evolved to be tribal creatures.

****don't get me wrong I find it as hilarious as anybody to see people so fragile and weak despite no apparent reason to be but for the same reasons that even those faking illness have something that needs addressing if indeed it is a genuine diagnosis of it then so it goes.
 

Sonic Angel Knight

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I think money is probably the biggest factor in domestic problems. Common things I heard is people who don't make enough money feel useless weak and inferior, and if you make too much, your controlling, bossy, demanding. Everything seems to always go to extremes and never is in the balance of just being okay and well enough that it's acceptable. I don't know if it's human nature to just never be satisfied.
 

FAST6191

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I think money is probably the biggest factor in domestic problems. Common things I heard is people who don't make enough money feel useless weak and inferior, and if you make too much, your controlling, bossy, demanding. Everything seems to always go to extremes and never is in the balance of just being okay and well enough that it's acceptable. I don't know if it's human nature to just never be satisfied.
Money is a friction, and "not enough" can be quite variable -- see the "keeping up with the Jones'" problem* that still sees many an otherwise happily paid professional do all kinds of shady stuff to get more for.
As a sole, might as well be or at least leading cause then not so much. Or go the other way -- plenty of people are or end up poor, does not mean abuse becomes prevalent in those scenarios like various other things might.
On never being satisfied then there does seem to be a limit after which more money does not provide that much more happiness (you have a house, good food, money to go on holiday once or twice, enough for a vehicle, maybe enough to fund some kids... there is not much more that most people really need for extreme contentment) but that is probably a different discussion.

*even more so when said Jones' are actually probably just in debt up to the eyeballs to finance it all but don't mention that to others.

Reasons why vary considerably. Abuse tends to beget abuse -- spend a youth watching your parents bounce one another off the wall, or single mother in a series of unfulfilling relationships (nobody wants to get with single mothers**, will use them for sport though) and that all too often becomes your default if you try to go in for a relationship, that or the opposite and you become excessively inclined to try to please people, or wonder why when you accidentally burned the pasta for dinner that you are not getting a backhand to the face (or perhaps somewhere less visible) and get very confused at that one (possibly then assuming it is going to come down worse on you later in some manner and then wind up on tenterhooks waiting for the other shoe to drop). Learn about it if you want but it is one of those "can't unsee" aspects of psychology/psychiatry for me and several others, and they might have done a lot to hide it or mitigate its effects with you pointing it out having barely just met not doing so well, so be aware of that one. Seriously it is right up there with fetal alcohol syndrome ( https://www.verywellhealth.com/how-do-i-know-my-child-has-fetal-alcohol-syndrome-63166 ) and various drug reactions they teach police ( https://americanaddictioncenters.org/health-complications-addiction/signs-drug-use-eyes ).
I mentioned PTSD above and that is one of the other factors, some just fucked in the head.
It can also cut the other way and your baseline for a relationship might be set by your first, and as the percentages of young ladies that have a clue about sex and relationships probably don't come from the best start (be they rich or be they poor) they may in turn influence what people think constitutes a "normal" relationship, to be repeated after the "don't stick it in crazy even if it is hot and your hormones hotter" gets it several billionth practical demonstration/learn by doing example as advice from elders is ignored for however many centuries it is now.

**based on remarks from a friend's now ex, with similar comments from others prior still. Absolutely lovely guy, one of the few people remaining that I will clench a fist for or answer the 4am "bring a shovel" phone call, but his dad died before he can remember. His mum did not have another relationship, much less when he was young, and thus he never saw affection at home and repeated that in his relationships (no physical touch beyond incidental or actually doing a sex, no displays of affection, initiating things also minimal... if you are thinking roommate you have sex with then pretty much that***) thinking it normal behaviour or indeed the desire for it from his exes as a strange personal quirk of theirs.

***he was fine with it, some have a thing where light touch, such as might be sensual in others, feels like pain and flinch away/avoid it like you might avoid a hot/sharp thing and it was not that (know some of them too, that is an odd one to watch).
 

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I find it inexcusable that a man can be removed from his house on an accusation alone.
Men can also be victims of domestic abuse. That being said, protecting people until a mess is sorted out seems like a pretty good idea. It’s not an uncommon criticism of the police when they fail to protect a victim and that victim either ends up further abused or dead. Thus it puts the police in a situation where their options are often limited when handling these kinds of cases. At the end of the day, only so much can be done on the spot when it comes to each individual case.
 

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As long as both genders are treated equally and fair, that's what matters.

The problem with a lot of domestic abuse victims is that they'll go back because he/she still loves her/him regardless of what just happened. Or financial reasons, yep.

Worst part of it? A victim tends to end up badly injured or even dead. They're warned, warned, and warned.. and it makes no difference.
 

Ricetomeetyou

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It is very important to protect the victim in domestic assault situations, which is why they often carry more severe punishments. The problem is that the district attorney's have to do their job by keeping the ones that are likely to do harm against the victim behind bars.
 

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