Hardware What's this NTSC/PAL stuff? (I hope I'm kidding.)

[romanaOne]

That's some kind of old analog TV spec. from days of yore. Has it come to be shorthand for anything that is region-locked to the US? And is PAL as inappropriately used to mean "European region."

I mean, when folks say they have an NTSC/PAL 3DS, I want to LMAO: it sounds like they trying to hook it up with some coax or SCART cable to the old TV in the attic because they're not satisfied with the small screen and would like lower resolution on a huge CRT? Talk about retro!

 

[Queno138]

That's some kind of old analog TV spec. from days of yore. Has it come to be shorthand for anything that is region-locked to the US? And is PAL as inappropriately used to mean "European region."

I mean, when folks say they have an NTSC/PAL 3DS, I want to LMAO: it sounds like they trying to hook it up with some coax or SCART cable to the old TV in the attic because they're not satisfied with the small screen and would like lower resolution on a huge CRT? Talk about retro!

3DS are region locked, but not NTSC/PAL style.

There are 3 regions (that I know of):

US, Europe (and oddly, Australia uses UK units) and Japan.

Edit: Apparently there is also iQue, which is for China/HK I think.

 

[Zerousen]

People are referring to the region itself, though I suppose it doesn't make much sense considering JP being an NTSC region as well.

 

[Queno138]

People are referring to the region itself, though I suppose it doesn't make much sense considering JP being an NTSC region as well.

If I recall, at some point NTSC was split to NTSC (U) and NTSC (J)?

 

[pokemoner2500]

If I recall, at some point NTSC was split to NTSC (U) and NTSC (J)?

This is correct, it is two separate things.

 

[piratesephiroth]

That's some kind of old analog TV spec. from days of yore. Has it come to be shorthand for anything that is region-locked to the US? And is PAL as inappropriately used to mean "European region."

I mean, when folks say they have an NTSC/PAL 3DS, I want to LMAO: it sounds like they trying to hook it up with some coax or SCART cable to the old TV in the attic because they're not satisfied with the small screen and would like lower resolution on a huge CRT? Talk about retro!

Yeah people are dumb.

 

[romanaOne]

People are referring to the region itself, though I suppose it doesn't make much sense considering JP being an NTSC region as well

That's what I infer, but I still think it's nonsensical jargon. Oh well..... Maybe we should start calling Budweiser a "60Hz" lager and Guiness a "50Hz" stout.

OT: Was there a reason for different so many types of analog TV? Why did people reinvent the wheel so many times? There was certainly no danger of people exchanging ideas or software if different countries used the same TV standards.

 

[piratesephiroth]

OT: Was there a reason for different so many types of analog TV? Why did people reinvent the wheel so many times? There was certainly no danger of people exchanging ideas or software if different countries used the same TV standards.

Region-locking.

 

[romanaOne]

Region-locking.

These standards are way old, like 1950s. What was there to lock down, back then?

Anyway, Wikipedia says this in its PAL article:

In the 1950s, the Western European countries commenced planning to introduce colour television, and were faced with the problem that the NTSC standard demonstrated several weaknesses, including colour tone shifting under poor transmission conditions, which became a major issue considering Europe's geographical and weather-related particularities. To overcome NTSC's shortcomings, alternative standards were devised, resulting in the development of the PAL and SECAM standards. The goal was to provide a colour TV standard for the European picture frequency of 50 fields per second (50 hertz), and finding a way to eliminate the problems with NTSC.

Nevertheless, I'm curious what these "geographical and weather-related peculiarities" are.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

3DS are region locked, but not NTSC/PAL style.

There are 3 regions (that I know of):

US, Europe (and oddly, Australia uses UK units) and Japan.

Edit: Apparently there is also iQue, which is for China/HK I think.

USA, EUR, JPN, CHN, TWN/HK and KOR I believe is all of them.
Edit: If Gateway's downgrade pack downloads are anything to go by then yup.

 

[DjoeN]

NTSC-U/NTSC-J/PAL/PAL-M/PAL-N

There getting old fashion, Today there's the Digital standard

- DVB-T (Most European countries + Others)
- ATSC (North America and Canada + Others)
- ISDB (South America, Japan + Others)
- DTMB (China, Hong Kong + Others)

So F***, again NO world standard for digital transmitting :/
- Region locking should be forbidden by law!

 

[FAST6191]

These standards are way old, like 1950s. What was there to lock down, back then?

Anyway, Wikipedia says this in its PAL article:



Nevertheless, I'm curious what these "geographical and weather-related peculiarities" are.

As others said/the thread was started with it is a hangover from old TV standard, which in turn also led to console standards (50Hz, despite being superior in various other aspects usually being shafted if the games were originally made in the US/Japan). As the console makers also more or less imported and set up businesses the pull from the same (Sega Japan, Sega Europe, Sega of America, Nintendo of Europe, Nintendo of Japan.........) then it also was used when it came time to localising and importing handheld games (you have the chip makers, the language people, the legal people, the marketing people, the accounting/company tax/registration..... all in place after all). Some have also argued it might have been to do with the mains voltage frequency but others say that is not the case, or at least not the case for most things.

On the geographical stuff it starts with http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Europe_topography_map_en.png and goes further into the hills and valleys that categorise a lot of European geography. Weather patterns start with there being a reasonable amount of rain in a lot of places, snow in others, also dust from the sahara does also blow up.... all of this can also change over the course of a couple of hours.

But anyway we do discourage calling handheld consoles by TV terms and it is usually North America, Europe (which does include Australia and New Zealand) and Japan for the big three sources of games, South Korea and China (sometimes being divided again with Hong Kong and Taiwan/Taipei) having recently joined the fold in various ways. However if you have to use a term then there are worse ways to communicate what goes.

Mind you I am having a "OMG the N64 is an old console" old man moment with the concept underpinning the thread. Now if you will excuse me I have to take my horseless carriage to pay the electric light bill.

- Region locking should be forbidden by law!

Technically it does fall outside World Trade Organisation guidelines, which are pretty close to international law as far as such things go.

 

[romanaOne]

I dunno. I don't get how 60Hz vs. 50Hz and a slightly higher resolution has anything to do with mountains, valleys, snow, fickle weather, or the harmattan--hardly things endemic to Europe--but I did notice further down the wikipedia page on PAL something about Japanese TV makers not wanting to give money to Telefunken and deciding to roll their own TV standard. Sounds like the same old region/patent crap after all....

Geezer moment: I first became aware of PAL when C64 demo disks from across the pond appeared on the primary school sneakernet and looked all wonky when I tried to LOAD"*",8,1 them on my NTSC C64/TV. Doh!

 

[FAST6191]

It is not the resulting decode rates but the encoding as it is sent over the air -- it is not all ones and zeros with analogue signals and if they start getting screwed up in various ways then you end up with all sorts of fun). There might have been some patent/export control nonsense as well (there usually is, though such things tend to also be cloaked with "it is 3% better"), or it might have been an availability of stock thing and a thought of "well it will only be used for 10 years". Pretty much all European TVs made after some time in the 80s (might be later, either way most things that are still working today would count) did also end up with NTSC decoding options as well.

Also it is not stuff that is endemic to Europe (if I were to don a radio coverage engineer's hat then western Washington state would be my personal idea of hell) but it can very much vary within a country, not to mention settlement is not as much "wide open land" as "anywhere there was still space as it has been several thousand years at this point". When you might be mandated to provide signal everywhere in a country then something to make it slightly easier is probably worth looking at.

 

[xantoz]

Relevant XKCD is basically why we had NTSC, PAL and SECAM for analog TVs as well as 50Hz and 60Hz (not to mention countries like Brazil having PAL at 60Hz!)

Anyway PAL has better resolution and better colours than NTSC (both of which have higher res than the 3DS btw. That should put in perspective how low-res the 3DS screen is), but often games we got in Europe were slowed down since PAL is usually 50Hz.

 

[Vipera]

I call it PAL because if I call it region 3 the non-hipster population will call me a mother fucker and always be remembered as a fedoraman. Just like the people who write "Saiyanji" instead of "Sayan" just to be kewl.

 

[shinyquagsire23]

I only say PAL because EUR implies only Europe vs the extra areas which are in it's region (Australia + friends).

 

[gamesquest1]

and the alternative is what US/EU/JPN....which is also technically incorrect, dvd's had it correct most by just giving them region codes rather than labeling one code to one region, when that code is shared with other countries, guess we should be saying i have a 0-6 coded 3ds

really i have no real issue with people saying PAL/NTSC-A/NTSC-J, if that's how they understand it, so be it, its not like im really going to be confused by it all

 

[naxil]

I remember the old expensive ntsc/pal tv. Today lot of super cheap crt tv have both. PAL is 576i (640x480 interlaced) 50hz . NTSC 480i (600x400??) 60hz.
Idk secam but if i remember good is the french standard for the analog tv channel.
Same for the old VHS looks grayed (ntsc on PAL) .
Ps= strange my new 30" hd tv looks horrible with forced pal 60hz (Nintendont or wii games)