What sources back up the anti-vaccine movement?

Lacius

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I just wanna get this shit over with you know.
This was only supposed to be like 3 weeks and it’s been almost 2 years
If the antivaxxers got vaccinated we could finally live the way we should
Nobody but the Big Lie-bowski was saying it would be over in three weeks. That was a fantasy.

Your right that the willfully unvaccinated are 100% to blame right now.
 

The Catboy

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I just wanna get this shit over with you know.
This was only supposed to be like 3 weeks and it’s been almost 2 years
If the antivaxxers got vaccinated we could finally live the way we should
That’s a mood right there and definitely one I agree with
 

The Catboy

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So far, I don’t think the anti-vac or whatever crowd really understand how science works nor how evidence works. The request of this thread is literally just asking for peer-reviewed papers, that’s part of how science works. If there’s apparently evidence to back up a movement, then that evidence should be verified and should be able to be replicated. This thread isn’t a debate about the Covid vaccine, it’s not a debate in general, it’s about about personal opinions, it’s not about someone on YouTube, and so on. This thread is just asking for the evidence people used to come to the conclusion that vaccines were anything other than a necessary means of preventing the spread of viruses. The only requirement is that the paper was peer reviewed. This shouldn’t be a difficult request and I shouldn’t be met with so much hostility or other guff for this request.
 
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SG854

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It's not even about personal opinion. It's about providing evidence to back what you are saying. If there is no evidence for anti vax then why would you even form your thoughts in the first place?
 

appleburger

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So far, I don’t think the anti-vac or whatever crowd really understand how science works nor how evidence works. The request of this thread is literally just asking for peer-reviewed papers, that’s part of how science works. If there’s apparently evidence to back up a movement, then that evidence should be verified and should be able to be replicated. This thread isn’t a debate about the Covid vaccine, it’s not a debate in general, it’s about about personal opinions, it’s not about someone on YouTube, and so on. This thread is just asking for the evidence people used to come to the conclusion that vaccines were anything other than a necessary means of preventing the spread of viruses. The only requirement is that the paper was peer reviewed. This shouldn’t be a difficult request and I shouldn’t be met with so much hostility or other guff for this request.
To be fair, you have been given some peer reviewed papers and then told us that you're very busy with a home remodel.

There are papers anti-vaxxers use for their arguments. I posted some links that refer so some here earlier in the thread. They are either no longer relevant, or related the MMR autism fiasco which has been thoroughly turned into one of the most obviously diabolical fuck ups ever conceived in the scientific community.

But, to your point, yes - people trying to argue against vaccines in this thread are clearly struggling with your request, lol

I also find it ironic that as somebody who appreciates Science and finds anti-vax arguments obviously flawed/ignorant, I'm one of the few if only people that have put any effort to actually providing peer reviewed papers in this thread that an anti-vaxxer would even try to provide to support their side.
 

The Catboy

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To be fair, you have been given some peer reviewed papers and then told us that you're very busy with a home remodel.

There are papers anti-vaxxers use for their arguments. I posted some links that refer so some here earlier in the thread. They are either no longer relevant, or related the MMR autism fiasco which has been thoroughly turned into one of the most obviously diabolical fuck ups ever conceived in the scientific community.

But, to your point, yes - people trying to argue against vaccines in this thread are clearly struggling with your request, lol

I also find it ironic that as somebody who appreciates Science and finds anti-vax arguments obviously flawed/ignorant, I'm one of the few if only people that have put any effort to actually providing peer reviewed papers in this thread that an anti-vaxxer would even try to provide to support their side.
Oh, I actually did look at those links
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1wNJ3tj3X2HZ0PTnUGnlrjpFsQu6tYKYTS7JvhFG2TMk/mobilebasic
I am going to be honest and say that I am not sure what you are getting at since all of them seem to say vaccines aren’t harmful, don’t cause autism, and so on. There’s also random LGBT+ stuff in there, which I am guessing is part of the video, so that’s interesting. Unless I missed something, they don’t seem to be anti-vaccines :unsure:
I am confused, are assuming that I am against vaccines or skeptical of vaccines?
 

appleburger

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Oh, I actually did look at those links
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1wNJ3tj3X2HZ0PTnUGnlrjpFsQu6tYKYTS7JvhFG2TMk/mobilebasic
I am going to be honest and say that I am not sure what you are getting at since all of them seem to say vaccines aren’t harmful, don’t cause autism, and so on. There’s also random LGBT+ stuff in there, which I am guessing is part of the video, so that’s interesting. Unless I missed something, they don’t seem to be anti-vaccines :unsure:
I am confused, are assuming that I am against vaccines or skeptical of vaccines?
Andrew Wakefield's paper is definitely the most popular one from that link that anti-vaxxers attempt use from those sources if you read anti-vaxx posts around the internet. There are plenty of cases of anti-vaxx folks citing papers that also clearly lay out that vaccines are your safest option 99% of the time, which is frankly hilarious (somebody earlier in this thread did that with a source I posted, in fact. I guess some think the summary at the end of a study is only related to the last table of the study and ignores the rest, which doesn't make sense, but I won't waste time with that level of ignorance).

As for the LGBT+ stuff, I think that's just very briefly touched upon in the video and he pulled that as a source when talking about another youtuber who tends to cover LGBT+ stuff, so there is some fluff there when it comes to sources.

My point is that, when it comes to using sources on the anti-vaxx side, this is the golden resource. It's the best option they have, to my knowledge, and I've gone down this rabbit hole, mostly for fun - akin to looking into flat earth folks' posts online.

And reading through the Wakefield paper, it's so, so, so incredibly clear that it's a terrible paper, and no wonder that it was redacted after other scientists peer reviewed it, called out lies, etc.
 
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The Catboy

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Andrew Wakefield's paper is definitely the most popular one from that link that anti-vaxxers attempt use from those sources if you read anti-vaxx posts around the internet. There are plenty of cases of anti-vaxx folks citing papers that also clearly lay out that vaccines are your safest option 99% of the time, which is frankly hilarious (somebody earlier in this thread did that with a source I posted, in fact. I guess some think the summary at the end of a study is only related to the last table of the study and ignores the rest, which doesn't make sense, but I won't waste time with that level of ignorance).

As for the LGBT+ stuff, I think that's just very briefly touched upon in the video and he pulled that as a source when talking about another youtuber who tends to cover LGBT+ stuff, so there is some fluff there when it comes to sources.

My point is that, when it comes to using sources on the anti-vaxx side, this is the golden resource. It's the best option they have, to my knowledge, and I've gone down this rabbit hold, mostly for fun - akin to looking into flat earth folks' posts online.

And reading through the Wakefield paper, it's so, so, so incredibly clear that it's a terrible paper, and no wonder that it was redacted after other scientists peer reviewed it, called out lies, etc.
I am going to be honest with you, I am very confused
1635264608003.gif

I don’t venture around anti-vac circles, do they really pass around sources that straight up debunk them just for the vague possibility that it might validate their claims?
 
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appleburger

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I am going to be honest with you, I am very confused
View attachment 281755
I don’t venture around anti-vac circles, do they really pass around sources that straight up debunk them just for the vague possibility that it might validate their claims?
If you're interested in what they're up to in terms of evidence, I'd recommend checking those circles out.

And the attempt is to use a paper as evidence to back up their claims - but yes, I've personally seen both flat earth and anti-vaxx comments try to prove their point with a paper that actually shows evidence against their point. If somebody was actually reading these papers with a semi-decent reading comprehension, they wouldn't likely be taking these incredibly flawed takes to begin with. Ya know?

To be fair, that's not everyone. There are plenty of folks that also peddle "well you can't trust papers and science 'cause money is being put in pockets, etc." stuff, but that's a whole other issue we don't have to get into with this thread.

Asking for scientific research from anybody coming from a position that's inherently anti-science is certainly a very daunting task, though, so it's to be expected. I do see plenty of folks come around after some discussion, so there IS hope. Just have to walk people through how to think in a logical way rather than a reactionary way that just reinforces what they already assumed to begin with.

Not easy to get everyone on board with the Scientific method and why it works so well, unfortunately.
 

weatMod

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so they wanna be sure to get f*cked up by the virus itself, that makes sense.
the vaccines have no efficacy
almost 80% of COVID hospitalizations are fully vaccinated
source : Australian government
also UK government had a similar report
and P town mass there was an outbreak , 80% of those infected were fully vaccinated
and 4 out the 5 that had to be hospitalized were fully vaccinated and on had one shot of either Phizer or Moderna
all 3 sources show that in real life not in some big pharma funded study that at best the the vaccines has a 20% efficacy , anything less than 51% efficacy amounts to a coin flip and is therefore 0% efficacy
20% actually shows you are greater risk of being hospitalized if you got fully vaccinated
could be due to evolving mutations or it could be that the vaccine is causing ADE reactions

Also I had COVID and I had a ADR from Ciprofloxacin in 2015
COVID was not fun , I had 103/104 temp for a month straight, mostly gastrointestinal symptoms
but it went away and I am fine now

the ADR I had from Cirpo was the worst experience of my life and I have permanent nerve damage and tinnitus
I rather take take my chances with the virus any day
until you have had a a neurological ADR you have no idea how horrific it can be and nobody will help you
I went to the ER probably close 100 times ,different hospitals ,
non e helped, some threated to arrest me for no reason
if you get fucked up by these big pharma poison you are on your own
I spent thousands to supplements and other naturopathic remedies
took years for most of the problems to go away and I still have the tinnitus and some neuropathy
 

djpannda

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source : Australian government
man... that great source....when I clicked the link to the Australian Government saying vaccines don't work I was amazing ... or wait that never happened .. because you know ...because non of the anti vaxxer garbage is true


GET VACCINATED NOT FOR YOURSELF BUT FOR Those who cannot - SOURCE: Djpannda



oh yea
my other source ..actually Medical Science that was not orginalliated by youtube..

unvaccinated are 6 times more likely to be hospitalized for COVID-19 than vaccinated

 
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appleburger

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the vaccines have no efficacy
almost 80% of COVID hospitalizations are fully vaccinated
source : Australian government
also UK government had a similar report
and P town mass there was an outbreak , 80% of those infected were fully vaccinated
and 4 out the 5 that had to be hospitalized were fully vaccinated and on had one shot of either Phizer or Moderna
all 3 sources show that in real life not in some big pharma funded study that at best the the vaccines has a 20% efficacy , anything less than 51% efficacy amounts to a coin flip and is therefore 0% efficacy
20% actually shows you are greater risk of being hospitalized if you got fully vaccinated
could be due to evolving mutations or it could be that the vaccine is causing ADE reactions

Also I had COVID and I had a ADR from Ciprofloxacin in 2015
COVID was not fun , I had 103/104 temp for a month straight, mostly gastrointestinal symptoms
but it went away and I am fine now

the ADR I had from Cirpo was the worst experience of my life and I have permanent nerve damage and tinnitus
I rather take take my chances with the virus any day
until you have had a a neurological ADR you have no idea how horrific it can be and nobody will help you
I went to the ER probably close 100 times ,different hospitals ,
non e helped, some threated to arrest me for no reason
if you get fucked up by these big pharma poison you are on your own
I spent thousands to supplements and other naturopathic remedies
took years for most of the problems to go away and I still have the tinnitus and some neuropathy
375 people hospitalized in the country, dude. 375. How many people live in Australia, again? Also, do we determine the efficacy of a vaccine by whether or not you can still catch the virus and be hospitalized?

Answer: No! And this is easily - and I mean easily shown through some googling on the basics of vaccination.

I don't mean to be rude, but you guys need to at least bother to learn how a vaccine works before you try and act like we have the wool pulled over our eyes. Bare minimum.
 

Dakitten

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the vaccines have no efficacy
almost 80% of COVID hospitalizations are fully vaccinated
source : Australian government
also UK government had a similar report
and P town mass there was an outbreak , 80% of those infected were fully vaccinated
and 4 out the 5 that had to be hospitalized were fully vaccinated and on had one shot of either Phizer or Moderna
all 3 sources show that in real life not in some big pharma funded study that at best the the vaccines has a 20% efficacy , anything less than 51% efficacy amounts to a coin flip and is therefore 0% efficacy
20% actually shows you are greater risk of being hospitalized if you got fully vaccinated
could be due to evolving mutations or it could be that the vaccine is causing ADE reactions

Also I had COVID and I had a ADR from Ciprofloxacin in 2015
COVID was not fun , I had 103/104 temp for a month straight, mostly gastrointestinal symptoms
but it went away and I am fine now

the ADR I had from Cirpo was the worst experience of my life and I have permanent nerve damage and tinnitus
I rather take take my chances with the virus any day
until you have had a a neurological ADR you have no idea how horrific it can be and nobody will help you
I went to the ER probably close 100 times ,different hospitals ,
non e helped, some threated to arrest me for no reason
if you get fucked up by these big pharma poison you are on your own
I spent thousands to supplements and other naturopathic remedies
took years for most of the problems to go away and I still have the tinnitus and some neuropathy
Video doesn't really source anything interesting aside from where the video came from, just points out a sad event in Australia which doesn't actually prove the point you think it does (that the people in the hospital were thankfully mostly vaccinated, and that breakthroughs do happen and you can't base your population numbers on hospital admissions over a period oftime). Honestly, your story kind of tells a whole different tale, and it is sad but it seems like after not getting the answers and treatment you wanted, you got taken for a ride by anybody who offered something different. My sympathies, but a compelling argument this does not make, and this qualifies as a failure to provide what the OP asked for.
 

weatMod

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Video doesn't really source anything interesting aside from where the video came from, just points out a sad event in Australia which doesn't actually prove the point you think it does (that the people in the hospital were thankfully mostly vaccinated, and that breakthroughs do happen and you can't base your population numbers on hospital admissions over a period oftime). Honestly, your story kind of tells a whole different tale, and it is sad but it seems like after not getting the answers and treatment you wanted, you got taken for a ride by anybody who offered something different. My sympathies, but a compelling argument this does not make, and this qualifies as a failure to provide what the OP asked for.
ridiculous
I just gave you 3 separate real world examples from 3 different countries
with nearly identical data
almost 80% of COVID hospitalization at one time are fully vaccinated

if you don't think that is proof of a 20% efficacy than there is no hope for you

I can; find the link to the UK video about daily cases and nearly 80% of hospitalizations being fully vaccinated right now

but someone above questioned the source of the video
so here it is from 9 news Australia , 78% of hospitalizations are fully vaccinated

meaning out of every 100 people who are hospitalized for COVID 80 have been fully vaccinated, meaning 20% efficacy at best

 

weatMod

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man... that great source....when I clicked the link to the Australian Government saying vaccines don't work I was amazing ... or wait that never happened .. because you know ...because non of the anti vaxxer garbage is true


GET VACCINATED NOT FOR YOURSELF BUT FOR Those who cannot - SOURCE: Djpannda



oh yea
my other source ..actually Medical Science that was not orginalliated by youtube..

unvaccinated are 6 times more likely to be hospitalized for COVID-19 than vaccinated

"it never happened"

yes it did
here is the source from
9news Australia official YouTube channel

next you will tell me that the 9 news is lying make deep fake videos of Australian government officials and broadcasting them
 

appleburger

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ridiculous
I just gave you 3 separate real world examples from 3 different countries
with nearly identical data
almost 80% of COVID hospitalization at one time are fully vaccinated

if you don't think that is proof of a 20% efficacy than there is no hope for you

I can; find the link to the UK video about daily cases and nearly 80% of hospitalizations being fully vaccinated right now

but someone above questioned the source of the video
so here it is from 9 news Australia , 78% of hospitalizations are fully vaccinated

meaning out of every 100 people who are hospitalized for COVID 80 have been fully vaccinated, meaning 20% efficacy at best

Might want to re-think what vaccine efficacy actually means bro
 

djpannda

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"it never happened"

yes it did
here is the source from
9news Australia official YouTube channel

next you will tell me that the 9 news is lying make deep fake videos of Australian government officials and broadcasting them
wait.. your stating a country that has a population of 25+ million and only hospitalize of about 450 daily COIVD case because almost 80% of the pop is vaccinated. Your stating that fact as proof that Vaccines don't work.. lol I don't know if your trolling or don't know how MATHS work.. but
thats 0.00018% chances of hospitalization due to COVID because of the VACCINE


LA County (that is one county in 1 state ) has 610 hospitalize yesterday...
one COUNTY has more Hospitalize then the complete COUNTRY of Australia
 
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