What has motivated you to engage in political thought?

FAST6191

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I was reading a pondering the other day on pricing models for software. It contrasted macro economics (about as verifiable as any other social science, which is to say it is correct as long as you don't check) with micro (rather useful if you want to price things, or at least be able to say you did something before it fails).
Thinking about it then something similar happened for me many years ago. I came to the conclusion that it did not matter what colour tie the dude in charge and his cohort, or indeed puppet masters, have as it is all much the same until you hit the extremes which are generally unstable as anything owing to them failing to account for economics or human psychology. Micro on the other hand can be quite useful when dealing with office and organisational politics, though I still aim to bypass it -- nobody can threaten my lowest level of Maslow's Hierarchy ( https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/knowledge/other/maslows-hierarchy-of-needs/ ), I generally aim to have skills that are in very short supply and thus can do the "little man, who do you think will blink first in this scenario"/your toolbox has wheels on it for a reason all while being able to assess who I need to speak to so as to get things done. That or if doing the "some men want to watch the world burn" then you can figure out exactly which thread to pull.
I still had to study a variety of political theories and psychology (it is a bit like maths in that regard -- pointless but you need to have a lot of grounding say why it is and quite useful along the way as an approximation) but that was actually kind of fun.
 
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Creamu

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Covid pandemic. Turns out I'm a communist now,
Oh, that is interesting. Care to elaborate?
and very interested in marxism theory.
Don't bother he was an evil racist and his writings were incoherent.
“The Jewish N-WORD Lassalle who, I’m glad to say, is leaving at the end of this week, has happily lost another 5,000 talers in an ill-judged speculation. The chap would sooner throw money down the drain than lend it to a ‘friend,’ even though his interest and capital were guaranteed. … It is now quite plain to me—as the shape of his head and the way his hair grows also testify—that he is descended from the N-WORDs who accompanied Moses’ flight from Egypt (unless his mother or paternal grandmother interbred with a N-WORD). Now, this blend of Jewishness and Germanness, on the one hand, and basic N-WORD stock, on the other, must inevitably give rise to a peculiar product. The fellow’s importunity is also N-WORD-like.” Karl Marx, “Marx to Friedrich Engels in Manchester,” 1862
 

Nikokaro

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Boredom .... :rofl2:
Speaking seriously, politics itself has never interested me, while the psychological and emotional implications on the individual (and the mass movements) of political decisions capture my attention and intrigue me.

Just between us, how many theads have you opened lately in this section?!? Do you suffer from loneliness and yearn for the desire to communicate? Or is it to quickly rack up some XP? Look, they have no concrete (if not imaginary) value, and you won't be able to exchange them for prizes or groceries .... :rofl2:
 
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Jayro

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Good question. Let's see...

For me, it's somewhere in the aftermath of 9/11. While it was pretty clear al qaeda (Bin Laden) was behind it, for some reason it's just got mentioned. Not that anyone thought the country was completely on the level (i remember the gulf War from when i was young), there simply wasn't anything even remotely tieing them to 9/11. But for some reasons American just kept pushing the agenda and alleging those'weapons of mass destructions' existed, though there simply wasn't proof (south park later mocked their display of a random field as'proof'brilliantly).
So i protested. Fuck... Everyone in the eu did. And for good reason: the us were the good guys until that point. And they were attacked... So why the hell were they planning on attacking a completely different country in a completely different part of the world for a completely different reason?

The defining point, if you want to call it that, was me watching the documentary 'outfoxed'. It just... Helped me understood the madness the country went in: a self proclaimed news network that twisted news rather than covering it, coupled with the arrogance that they were telling the truth.
It was 9/11 for me too, it happened when I was 18.
 

LoggerMan

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Poverty and inequity, politics and government is the only way to solve it and that's what motivates me to vote.

Rome and their senate is fascinating and all, but the romans republic senate was totally unworkable. It served as a tool for men to advance themselves and that only served the city of Rome by bringing in easy wealth and slaves. The republic of Rome was so unworkable that it took neutering it and consolidating power under an emperor for real people to see real improvement in their normal lives, and the empire was unworkable in the long run because getting a good emperor was a crapshoot. It's amazing that the Roman republic and empire lasted as long as it did.

The problems with the Roman republic should be studied though because those same problems exist in governments all over the world, especially in former Commonwealth states.
 

Creamu

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Boredom .... :rofl2:
Speaking seriously, politics itself has never interested me, while the psychological and emotional implications on the individual (and the mass movements) of political decisions capture my attention and intrigue me.
Maybe you should take a look at my comparative analysis of The Matrix and video game media. I have recently touched on Freud.
Just between us, how many theads have you opened lately in this section?!?
I'm not sure, there is not a high frequency of threads opened in this subforum, I might have overestimated that.
Do you suffer from loneliness and yearn for the desire to communicate?
My cat died recently, that might be a contributing factor.
Or is it to quickly rack up some XP?
No that has no use for me.
Look, they have no concrete (if not imaginary) value, and you won't be able to exchange them for prizes or groceries .... :rofl2:
Exactly, thats the flaw in the xp system. If I could learn new attacks or evolve into another form that would make it worth it.
 
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Creamu

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Poverty and inequity, politics and government is the only way to solve it and that's what motivates me to vote.
How do you see the government solve this?
Rome and their senate is fascinating and all, but the romans republic senate was totally unworkable. It served as a tool for men to advance themselves and that only served the city of Rome by bringing in easy wealth and slaves. The republic of Rome was so unworkable that it took neutering it and consolidating power under an emperor for real people to see real improvement in their normal lives, and the empire was unworkable in the long run because getting a good emperor was a crapshoot. It's amazing that the Roman republic and empire lasted as long as it did.
It lasted quite long and is the greatest civilisation that ever was on earth.
The problems with the Roman republic should be studied though because those same problems exist in governments all over the world, especially in former Commonwealth states.
Very true. We might be heading for collapse, our pillars are not as great as those of the roman empire.
 

Dark_Ansem

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The fact that while I may have not been interested in politics before, politics were always interested in me. Better to tackle the beast head-on than be sneaked from behind. Same reason I relinquished Facebook, Twitter, and all the rest of the nonsense.
 
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FAST6191

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[Rome]It lasted quite long and is the greatest civilisation that ever was on earth.
An interesting assertion there. I am not sure I can back it up without reservation or hesitation though. Even those at the time could have posed a challenge, and since then almost certainly. 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th century European efforts (especially if you go for shared culture rather than shared continuity of rule) I would also place ahead of them but I can ignore those for the purposes of a historical discussion.
 
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Creamu

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An interesting assertion there. I am not sure I can back it up without reservation or hesitation though. Even those at the time could have posed a challenge, and since then almost certainly. 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th century European efforts (especially if you go for shared culture rather than shared continuity of rule) I would also place ahead of them but I can ignore those for the purposes of a historical discussion.
Interesting perspective. We all have our biases, I personally look at the renaissance and it's fruits as the echos of the roman empire. The european efforts at those times were in my view Roman since the people who built that were those who fled to the north as the Roman empire collapsed. Neo Classicism was the last attempt at a serious civilisational project.
Best enjoyed with this as backgorund music:
 

Nikokaro

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FAST6191

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Interesting perspective. We all have our biases, I personally look at the renaissance and it's fruits as the echos of the roman empire. The european efforts at those times were in my view Roman since the people who built that were those who fled to the north as the Roman empire collapsed. Neo Classicism was the last attempt at a serious civilisational project.
Best enjoyed with this as backgorund music:
Italy's efforts in World War 2 and run up to it would have to count under your notions there if "serious" (plausible less so).

That said we might debate eastern and western Roman empires as to whether the eastern was still Roman but stretching it beyond that is tricky.
Its influence looms large over European history (and a lot of North African as well) if you follow Latin's existence in the time since (granted people probably romanticise it overly -- French was the language of the nobility*, just like Greek tended to be for Rome**, but people do like those scientific papers and religious text or historical accounts written by bored monks) and the whole "French law comes from Roman law" thing that some like to ponder but to draw a line directly gets dubious.
On fled north... I have met the dying embers of Rome kickstarted Northern Europe before. It is the lesser aspect of the great men of history mode of historical analysis from where I sit (at that point I would be back to the geographical analysis*** and biological analysis for my driving forces of things here). Similarly most of the classical texts seemed to come back from the Arabs rather than living on in Europe and influencing things there. At best I have "you can't disprove it" as a comeback which is hardly a position of strength to argue from.

*things like the Avignon Papacy also serving to trouble the "but the church" thing. https://www.thoughtco.com/the-avignon-papacy-1789454

**if Rome is the such majesty such wow of various European thinkers then Greece was that for Rome, and if that medieval history is echoes of Rome then similar claim would be made for echoes of ancient Greece.

**It is noted Italy is great in the early game of civilisation, less so in the later one. Italy as training level in similar manner, albeit greater timeline, to Wales and Ireland as training level for the UK.
 

Creamu

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Italy's efforts in World War 2 and run up to it would have to count under your notions there if "serious" (plausible less so).
I see Italy more on the futuristic side, while germany was more neo classical oriented. But it's a touchy subject and the victors narrative is so penetrant and cartoonish that there seldom is room for sensible discussion.
That said we might debate eastern and western Roman empires as to whether the eastern was still Roman but stretching it beyond that is tricky.
Constantinople was a roman branch for sure. If you look at my comparative analysis of the Matrix movie you see me draw comparisons between video games, hollywood and mythology. We are still living in the shadow of rome culturally speaking. Another aspect is the genetical one. The people of rome have not perished, and there are serious implications that come with that realisation.
Its influence looms large over European history (and a lot of North African as well) if you follow Latin's existence in the time since (granted people probably romanticise it overly -- French was the language of the nobility*, just like Greek tended to be for Rome**, but people do like those scientific papers and religious text or historical accounts written by bored monks) and the whole "French law comes from Roman law" thing that some like to ponder but to draw a line directly gets dubious.
Spritiually europe is roman (even as europe is currently falling apart).
https://gbatemp.net/threads/the-matrix-1999-is-thomas-anderson-nemo.612470/
People are moved by irrational, esoteric and spiritiual notions.
On fled north... I have met the dying embers of Rome kickstarted Northern Europe before. It is the lesser aspect of the great men of history mode of historical analysis from where I sit (at that point I would be back to the geographical analysis*** and biological analysis for my driving forces of things here). Similarly most of the classical texts seemed to come back from the Arabs rather than living on in Europe and influencing things there. At best I have "you can't disprove it" as a comeback which is hardly a position of strength to argue from.
Interesting. I see alot from former desert dwellers working with roman symbology, but that has a deeper influence on the western world than alot may think. If you study symbology of hollywood you will see yourself disproven. The roman discourse is very much alive.
*things like the Avignon Papacy also serving to trouble the "but the church" thing. https://www.thoughtco.com/the-avignon-papacy-1789454

**if Rome is the such majesty such wow of various European thinkers then Greece was that for Rome, and if that medieval history is echoes of Rome then similar claim would be made for echoes of ancient Greece.
I agree, this is obiviously true. Jupiter/Zeus, Mercury/Hermes, Apollo, Mars/Ares etc. Rome was the peak however.
**It is noted Italy is great in the early game of civilisation, less so in the later one. Italy as training level in similar manner, albeit greater timeline, to Wales and Ireland as training level for the UK.
I do believe that we have never recovered form the fall of the roman empire (as a civilisation) and that there is a continuity there, even if it is obscure.
 

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Oh, that is interesting. Care to elaborate?
Class consciousness. And it should be enough.
Don't bother he was an evil racist and his writings were incoherent.
I'm interested in his critical analysis of capitalist production, not gossips about how racist he was.
So I'm not going to dismiss all marxist thought because someone made a copy and paste of their shitty moment.
 
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Creamu

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Class consciousness. And it should be enough.
I see, the covid pandamic has lead to the liquidiation of small buisness and concentration of power in to bigger buisness so I can see the connection there.
I'm interested in his critical analysis of capitalist production, not gossips about how racist he was.
No gossip I can provide more direct quotes.
So I'm not going to dismiss all marxist thought because someone made a copy and paste of their shitty moment.
No, read it. Just letting you know that it is a incoherent mess beforehand. Marx and Engels were interested in exploiting the german working class not helping them.

Read Marx. I personally think its a waste of time and cognitive function, but it is at least interesting to know who that guy really is, that is still talked about so much.

Here some more quotes illustrating his evil racism:

What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money. … Money is the jealous god of Israel, in face of which no other god may exist. Money degrades all the gods of man—and turns them into commodities. … The bill of exchange is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange. … The chimerical nationality of the Jew is the nationality of the merchant, of the man of money in general.” Karl Marx 1844

[Tremaux] proved that the common N-WORD type is the degenerate form of a much higher one … a very significant advance over Darwin. Karl Marx August 7, 1866


Without slavery, North America, the most progressive of countries, would be transformed into a patriarchal country. Wipe out North America from the map of the world and you will have anarchy— the complete decay of modern commerce and civilization. Abolish slavery and you will have wiped America off the map of nations.” Karl Marx 1847

Take Amsterdam, for instance, a city harboring many of the worst descendants of the Jews whom Ferdinand and Isabella drove out of Spain and who, after lingering a while in Portugal, were driven out of there too and eventually found a place of retreat in Holland. … Here and there and everywhere that a little capital courts investment, there is ever one of these little Jews ready to make a little suggestion or place a little bit of a loan. The smartest highwayman in the Abruzzi is not better posted about the locale of the hard cash in a traveler’s valise or pocket than these little Jews about any loose capital in the hands of a trader … These small Jewish agents draw their supplies from the big Jewish houses … and practice great ostensible devotion to the religion of their race. Karl Marx 1856

Thus we find every tyrant backed by a Jew, as is every Pope by a Jesuit. In truth, the cravings of oppressors would be hopeless, and the practicability of war out of the question, if there were not an army of Jesuits to smother thought and a handful of Jews to ransack pockets. … The fact that 1,855 years ago Christ drove the Jewish money-changers out of the temple, and that the money-changers of our age, enlisted on the side of tyranny, happen again to be Jews is perhaps no more than a historic coincidence. Karl Marx 1856

Indian society has no history at all, at least no known history. What we shall call its history is but the history of the successive invaders who founded their empires on the passive basis of that unresisting and unchanging society. Karl Marx August 8, 1853

Russia is a name usurped by the Muscovites. They are not Slavs, do not belong at all to the Indo-German race, but are des intrus [intruders], who must again he hurled back beyond the Dnieper, etc. Karl Marx June 24, 1865

This splendid territory [the Balkans] has the misfortune to be inhabited by a conglomerate of different races and nationalities, of which it is hard to say which is the least fit for progress and civilization. Slavonians, Greeks, Wallachians, Arnauts, twelve millions of men, are all held in submission by one million of Turks, and up to a recent period, it appeared doubtful whether, of all these different races, the Turks were not the most competent to hold the supremacy which, in such a mixed population, could not but accrue to one of these nationalities. Karl Marx 1853

There is alot more of this i can share if you are interested
 
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