What games require actual skills from players?

[Deboog]

- Castlevania 2 ~ Simon's quest (one of my first completed game, and back then I didn't understood english... just went random everywere until I completed it ). It wasn't a very hard game for me.

You didn't speak English? How in god's name did you figure out to crouch in a corner with a red orb?

 

[Hungry Friend]

RichHomieSupreme: I see your point but when a game is incredibly tough and unforgiving, it's so much more satisfying when you do finally beat it than if you beat an easier game. Most good JRPGs require very little to no grinding but admittedly Dragon Quest games do requires some and it is annoying, but I believe the positives outweigh the negatives. If you don't wanna grind just get to what's considered the minimum level required to complete whatever section is coming up and come up with a strategy to kill tough enemies, bosses etc rather than grinding forever and brute forcing it.

Also I agree Castlevania 2 has the wrong kind of difficulty by being full of cryptic bullshit as AVGN put it.

 

[RichHomieSupreme]

Maybe he found another way to trigger the tornado :o

 

[mechagouki]

Why are checkpoints seen as a way of removing skill from a game? Why does dying need to place you at the beginning of the game? That only makes the game tedious, not difficult. What is skillful about having to redo what you just did because you died? It's like grinding in a jrpg, it's tedious and the time you spend doing it creates a false sense of difficulty because you put so much time into doing it. I mean in a jrpg, your skill is having bigger numbers than whatever you're fighting. In say a platformer without check points, its sorta the same thing, it forces you into repetition and eventually you beat it except it's a little more annoying. I think that the games that either put you against other players or have "randomness" are the most skillful. "Randomness" tests your adaptation and resourcefulness which is why I think that tetris is definitely skillful. Don't get me wrong I enjoy games like ninja gaiden nes and the older Mario games, but I don't think that things like checkpoints and the ability to save anywhere make games less skillful.

Well your point about platformers is valid, but perhaps it's only because checkpoints and the ability to save your game is the norm now. When I originally played through SMB 3 on the NES, I knew I had to complete that sucker in one sitting, no battery backup in that cart. It added a level of tension and a need to be absolutely focused on every jump (world 8 level 2 I'm looking at you!).

With RPGs I would say grinding is an alternative to skillful use of strategy in boss battles, and as such the boredom penalty is justified.

 

[RichHomieSupreme]

Well your point about platformers is valid, but perhaps it's only because checkpoints and the ability to save your game is the norm now. When I originally played through SMB 3 on the NES, I knew I had to complete that sucker in one sitting, no battery backup in that cart. It added a level of tension and a need to be absolutely focused on every jump (world 8 level 2 I'm looking at you!).

With RPGs I would say grinding is an alternative to skillful use of strategy in boss battles, and as such the boredom penalty is justified.

Smb3 was one of the games that I loathed for not having the ability to save lol. Thank the heavens for save states. They let you save in games without such a feature. Also, the game should've at least had a password save. I'm only able to complain about such a thing because it's commonplace now but saving anywhere is a good thing.

 

[Cyan]

You didn't speak English? How in god's name did you figure out to crouch in a corner with a red orb?

I don't remember, probably followed game guide? (we had some nintendo club magazine back then, with player's writing, asking questions, and waiting next month for the answers lol)
I guess this is where you had to crouch in front of a wall ? I remember doing it to open a hidden passage all the way to the west.

I had rudimentary english understanding (2 year of school level english) when I played that game. maybe it was enough, I don't remember very well.

Ps: I still have my card member and nintendo magazine from 1980's