What does it take for you to lose your faith in a game studio?

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It's been an eventful week, and you've no doubt read a veritable deluge of information and ranting about Cyberpunk 2077's highly-criticized launch. Why don't we take a little time to reflect, and recap these recent events? Or, perhaps, even compare CD Projekt Red and their woes to a very familiar bug-prone studio.

For a time, Bethesda could do no wrong. Consumer support was strong after the landmark release of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, and their revival of the Fallout series in its third installment. Followed by publishing Dishonored, DOOM, and Wolfenstein reboots, it seemed the company was the prodigal child of the industry. Beloved by all, even in the face of its flaws.

It peaked when Bethesda revealed Fallout 4 for the very first time, with a release date just mere months away. But when the game did launch, the praise and hype were marred by complaints of bugs, a weak narrative, and endless vapid radiant side quests. The dissent was taken further when gamers began questioning Bethesda’s writing abilities, going back to Fallout 3 and claiming that it was never good in the first place, compared to what came before. The drama further unfurled when Bethesda released Fallout 76, a few years later, and the game suffered a downright terrible launch, which brings us to their reputation today: a studio that is still popular, but has lost a fair amount of the vocal and dedicated fan base it built in a decade in a matter of years, thanks to questionable practices and endlessly buggy releases.

In a very similar vein, it took a little over a week to sour gamers’ opinions of the once darling studio that could also do no wrong: CD Projekt.

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Having developed one of the most renowned modern RPGs, The Witcher 3, and their creation of Good Old Games, a storefront dedicated to releasing DRM-free PC games, CD Projekt became an absolute titan of a company. Combined with their PR department valuing being transparent with fans, it was the perfect recipe for success. With Cyberpunk 2077’s hype through the roof and looking like the perfect send-off to the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, the stage was set for them to take the throne as the most-loved company in the industry, besides Nintendo, of course.

Then, the delays hit. Pushed back a few months here, delayed a few weeks there. But players had waited nearly a decade for the game, and a few more months didn’t matter much in the long run: after all, a delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad, right? Around the time of one of the few delays that Cyberpunk 2077 faced, questions began to arise regarding the working conditions of those at CD Projekt Red, hard at work on the game. While 2020 has featured many dramatic industry revelations, one of the biggest topics has been that of development “crunch” at major game studios.

So, when the higher-ups at CD Projekt Red ensured that its team wouldn’t force crunch on its workers, at least on a large, mandatory scale, it seemed like yet another win for everyone’s favorite developer...Until it wasn’t. As the new September release date loomed ever closer, an investor call revealed that there would be some degree of crunch happening in order to get the game out on time, followed by further reports of crunch becoming “mandatory”, to hit the shifted November release date, then things began to involve over-time and 6-day workweeks, all to reach a newly-established launch date of December 10th. A game eight years in the making had been unable to meet multiple deadlines, and the development team had been pushing themselves for over a year like this. Still, many defended the choice, as CD Projekt would be kind enough to compensate their workers, and even promised a large bonus to its team, based on the profits made following Cyberpunk 2077’s release. Not many other companies would do the same.

Still, it was enough to begin to shake some peoples’ faith in the game, or even the company itself. Even so, CD Projekt Red was still beloved by many, and fans fervently defended them across the internet when anyone dared question their developmental problems.

When review scores were published, it seemed like Cyberpunk had hit the mark, delivering well within instant-classic status, with Opencritic’s average sitting at 88/100, and its Metacritic score similarly around 90/100. It was curiously observed that review codes for the console versions of the game weren’t being provided prior to release, but the concern didn’t really gain traction until after Cyberpunk 2077 had hit retail shelves. By then, the public had realized that the game was not nearly what players had expected, to the point of refunds being demanded.

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As aggregates began to publish reviews for the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 versions of the game, the Opencritic average score of 88 fell to an 81, while Metacritic’s decreased from 90 to 87 (as of the time of writing). It was then that CD Projekt began to walk back its initial claims of giving employees a bonus payment if Cyberpunk 2077 hit a 90 or above on Metacritic, to promising a bonus no matter what the score was, as it had fallen from its threshold, and continued to tick down with every passing day.

Now, the fanbase had become incensed, thanks to a launch that saw reportedly awful performance on last-gen consoles, low resolution textures that hit instant meme status, and so many bugs and glitches on PC that players had lost count. The rage furthered, as PS4 users continued to demand refunds for digital copies, which were no longer being offered, despite being guaranteed originally. CD Projekt publicly apologized for releasing the game in such a state, attempting to smooth things over by promising performance patches and constant quality updates, though the biggest bugfixes would require patiently waiting until February--more than two months after launch.

Irritation grew towards CD Projekt issuing yet another yellow-background apology note, and for the inconsistent quality of the game. As if they hadn’t hogged the entire news flow for a week, things got worse, as CD Projekt barred the sale of Devotion from their GOG storefront, mere hours after the developer announced its release on the platform, with minimal explanation other than a vague and confusing “many messages from gamers” had influenced their decision.


With the ongoing drama regarding refunds and shady subterfuge over the console release of Cyberpunk 2077, Sony stepped in, removing the game from sale on the PlayStation Store entirely, and refunding any and all customers who bought the game and wished for their money back. A major AAA title had been pulled from sale overnight--a rather startling sight to behold. If things couldn't get worse, physical retailers like Best Buy were allowing refunds for the game, alongside Microsoft also letting digital buyers refund their copy, even if it was over the 2-hours played limitation.

The story isn’t even close to ending yet--it’s only a matter of time before the next headline regarding CD Projekt’s latest move or Cyberpunk 2077’s most recent pitfall hits the front page of every gaming website out there. But in this past week alone, it seems that the company has repeatedly shot itself in the foot, to the point where even the most devout of fans have been shaken. At the same time, CD Projekt appears willing to please unsatisfied customers by allowing these refunds on the basis of false promises and constant crashes, to the point of saying they'll pay for some players' refunds out of their own pocket. Even the game that helped boost CD Projekt to their critical acclaim--The Witcher 3--didn't release without its own set of issues, all the way back in 2015.

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Have the negative events of this past week been dramatic enough to deter you from CD Projekt and their practices, despite years of quality content prior to this, much like how gamers found themselves done with Bethesda after Fallout 76's mess of a release? Was Cyberpunk 2077 doomed to never live up to its hype, even if it launched bug-free? And have you given up on the game, or are you holding out hope, waiting for that eventual bug-fixing patch or PS5/XSX|S release?
 

huma_dawii

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The story is being overblown, I think the studio/developers deserve more credit for such an amazing game, i have been playing on Xbox Series X and runs great, no game breaking glitches that i have encountered. The management is probably the ones to blame here, not the developers.

It's crazy to me people is judging this amazing game by the worst version of it, the PS4 and Xbox One versions, what would happen if we were to judge every third party game as a whole by the Wii U port? NOTHING GOOD RIGHT?

People need to grow up and try to cancel everything.
 

D34DL1N3R

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The story is being overblown, I think the studio/developers deserve more credit for such an amazing game, i have been playing on Xbox Series X and runs great, no game breaking glitches that i have encountered. The management is probably the ones to blame here, not the developers.

It's crazy to me people is judging this amazing game by the worst version of it, the PS4 and Xbox One versions, what would happen if we were to judge every third party game as a whole by the Wii U port? NOTHING GOOD RIGHT?

People need to grow up and try to cancel everything.

Except you're wrong. 1) It's not overblown. The criticisms are very real. 2) People are also judging the PC version. 3) Some games were actually better on the Wii U than on other platforms.

In other news, never heard of this game Devotion. Off to grab it now. Looks more enjoyable than Cyberjunk even if it's for the most part a 3 hr long horror walking sim.
 

FAST6191

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I generally view myself as a very cynical person. Accordingly having faith in anything like that (or in general but that is a different discussion) is not really the done thing.

Delays. Meh. Just bad project management or too optimistic on timeframes. Neither are good but this is far from an ideal world and if game designers barely seem versed in game theory with their programmers not all that much better I do not expect project management to be there.
Marketing people lying. Yeah that is what they do. Ignore what they say and find your own info, learn to figure out what is what.
Companies being bastards to employees. Don't much care here -- can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen, if they don't pay well then get something better, if they ask long hours and you want leisure then guess you made the wrong choice... game companies are seldom the only game in town employing effectively serfs as much as small tech companies employing skilled people. If you stay it is because you want it more, good time to be a boss I guess.
Features promised vs features delivered. I try to go by back of the box than 3 years before release hype and in any case will consider what I have in front of me.
Microtransactions. I was around for arcades (granted they did not die in the UK the same way as the did in the US, and give or take the sniffles going round then still could get something notable going on today in various seaside towns) so don't necessarily take it personally. I can also appreciate having a moron customer/boss breathe down your neck, even if my inclination is still to say do one in such cases. That said going full bore pay to win will sour things.
You are allowed a game or two before I stop paying any real attention as a general concept and instead only when something is released do I care.
Bending the knee to censorship. While I consider it a high ideal for myself then pragmatism is something I can at least understand in others. There is however a difference between playing within the rules of a gatekeeper, pushing boundaries while you do it, and plumping for them.
Trying to stifle the second hand market through anything other than making your game have genuine long term appeal (padded timesinks not counting), or maybe a nice gold/game of the year/complete edition (nature of expansion/content/downloadable packs will be considered). Yeah we are getting there.


I suppose in the end I want to know the reasons for your failures. Could be that they are targetting someone that is not me. Chasing that mainstream appeal seldom pleases anybody in the long run but that is a fairly quick way to lose what you might have had. Simply focusing on other aspects of play others find rewarding (I like some puzzles, less interested in all reactions all the time even if I am OK with it as a general concept, if a dev wanted to explore all reactions all the time with the sequel then I might not like it).
Not understanding the underlying maths of games. That is harder. On rare occasion the amount of overpowered strategies can be enough that it ends up fun but that is hard to do well.


In the end I have been in enough companies in the real world either picking their corpse clean, seeing the inefficiencies, or helping out when they are circling the drain to consider anything a good long term proposition. If all the people and tech* changes every few years then you basically have a whole new company in a whole new field even if it has the same name and mission.

*I say that but in reality you could make what would have once been a top tier game relatively easily today, and mid tier back then (which commonly sit among my favourite games) is even easier still. To that end "games cost more to make now" is generally a lie from where I sit. Instead you just think you have to chase the shiny shiny, or want others to fund your desire to play with it. However if people are going to chase it then the tech can be said to have changed and a good PS2 texture setup is not necessarily anything like what goes today any more than a cartoon's visual phrasing is the same as a still life "are you sure that is not a photo?" even if technical proficiency requirements vary.
 

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It's funny how a single game can do wonders in destroying a company's reputation overnight. It's way easier to destroy than to build after all.
I'd even say it's less that Cyberpunk by itself destroyed CDPR's reputation overnight, and more that it simply confirmed a lot of things naysayers pointed out about the studio for years, resulting in one big "I told you so" moment.
 

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The whole "Cyberpunk removed from PS4" situation reminded me of SpongeBob: The Movie game that was available for PS3. It had so many bugs and glitches in it that PlayStation removed it from their store altogether. To this day it hasn't been relisted.
I think something similar happened to some Ratchet and Clank games too, with older games that are released for newer consoles having bugs that they're delisted.
 

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I don't trust Capcom since megaman was abandoned and RE became a generic OTS, sure Capcom has release recently good games but the company
it's far from what it once was. And i lost faith in nintendo when they board the DLC wagon and the poor efforts on recently remakes/remasters.
 

A Generic User

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Well, why did you have faith in them in the first place? What would it take to get it back? (because loss aversion will definitely kick in) What even is faith to begin with?

I can only assume the editor who wrote this knew the responses she would get, because I think it really is telling that there are a variety of different ideas of what can make a person lose faith, not just in a studio but in general. Me personally, it takes something like what Konami did for me to lose faith in them (I don't say EA because I never had faith in them to start with), but this is obviously not something I care to argue.

In regards to Cyberpunk 2077 and CD Projekt Red specifically, I would say "there are grievances to be had but some of them are taking it too far", but.....haven't we had that discussion enough times already? With Dexit and the 3D All Stars situation and "FreeMelee" and probably countless other instances of this in other forums of other subjects? Why bother asking a question everyone knows the answer to and we have no business in applying? There are going to be bad apples in any discussion: just don't pay them any piece of mind and focus on the ones being rational (if not somewhat emotional) in their arguments. Don't especially start calling any person who gives shit "entitled", and don't start labelling people who just want people to calm down ever so slightly a "shill".

I also think the whole "corporations aren't your friends" mindset is extremely misguided. During the whole debacle that was the RTX 30 series launch, so many people were just going "I've been a paying customer for 10-15-20 years and this is just horrible NVIDIA/Asus/eVGA/whoever the hell makes AIB's" but then they nut when they see how well the cards actually perform. And since people brought up Nintendo: god was it stupid seeing people shit on them for taking down AM2R and shutting down TBHO and then lauding them for making an official remake and putting Sephiroth into Smash. I especially don't like to exculpate smaller and independent studios for this because, well.... didn't the current AAA developers become popular because they were being lauded so much? Just like how anime and video games used to be niche forms of media, if enough people start praising smaller studios for not being like their bigger corporate brothers.... what exactly is stopping said smaller studios from becoming exactly like their bigger brothers? And if you're going to use that as an excuse to jump ship to another small studio, thereby starting a cycle of dropping media every time it becomes popular just because you want to feel counted, well....I don't have much to say. I thoroughly despise the idea of "cycling" through media in a wanton desire to "stay relevant": you're not solving the problem, you're almost literally just going around it.

To have faith in something or someone implies you have been assured by something they have not directly done nor said. It's not like trust where you have something to work with. Thus, faith just ends up as something easily misplaced and very difficult to relocate. However, that faith, perhaps ironically, needs some kind of basis, and here it can start to rear its ugly head if its based on judging only their best and worst actions. Is it really fair to criticize a game for poor performance or poor mastering on one platform if it was meant for a different platform with different specs? I suppose that depends on how you discriminate between a simultaneous release and a port, but criticism is better and more helpful when the situation is optimized instead of downgraded to fit an individual niche that, let's be real, sometimes isn't really worth addressing.

Sure, corporations aren't our friends....but that doesn't make them our enemies. Yes, companies exist to make money; sometimes their interests align with yours, but sometimes they will. That's just how things are.
 

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Goes to show that too many ppl are spoiled and entitled nowadays.
Your game is buggy oh shit, you can either laugh it off and have fun with it knowing itl get fixed soon or get a refund . . .
The PC version is just fine, console port on old gen was a mess but hey its a fucking port thrown quickly together to satisfy shareholder or whatever . . .
Honestly this shitstorm is a joke and ppl should know by now that overhype is the best way to set yourself up for disappointment.
I didn't go batshit crazy for 8 years waiting for this game as if it were the Messiah and guess what . . . I'm enjoying it right now on a rather old PC lol
 
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64bitmodels

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It's hard to lose nonexistent faith
With how shitty the triple a gaming industry is youd be a fucking idiot to expect a new game from a company like rockstar or CD Projekt to be any good. It's the same thing for indies too. And just because a company may release hit after hit after hit that still doesn't mean you should put any faith in them. theyre a corporation. they only care about your money. its only a matter of time before another company like rockstar gets their cyberpunk 2077
 

The Catboy

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A poorly made game does hurt my faith in a studio but it's often the bad practices that go into the games that really kill it for me. Crap like crunch and other forms of worker abuse is what really makes me not want to trust a studio. I've lost faith in studios like Ubisoft and CD Projekt Red for their abusive practices.
 

64bitmodels

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Hey, remember EA? Remember when thrir games were not full of micro transactions crap?
nope, i honestly cant think of any EA product that has ever been good. theyve always been shit to me and always will. there is nothing about their products that are captivating, fun or original, and if its even close to being one of those things there is most likely another AAA or indie that does it 10 times better. All i see when i hear the word EA are a bunch of talentless hacks from the day the company was formed to today.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Sure, corporations aren't our friends....but that doesn't make them our enemies.
Nope literally all corporations i can think of are our enemies, all of them have shitty retarded ceos that only exist to siphon money out of our wallets, they hold massive monopolies over the market and shut down all forms of competition, either that or they straight up buy them like disney and maybe kill them later like with EA.
Companies are like the devil, you make deals with him but you're an idiot if you actually put your faith in him to have your back. Like the art not the artist
 

A Generic User

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Nope literally all corporations i can think of are our enemies, all of them have shitty retarded ceos that only exist to siphon money out of our wallets, they hold massive monopolies over the market and shut down all forms of competition, either that or they straight up buy them like disney and maybe kill them later like with EA.
Companies are like the devil, you make deals with him but you're an idiot if you actually put your faith in him to have your back. Like the art not the artist
Oh, so artists aren't trying to make money either?
 
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64bitmodels

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Oh, so artists aren't trying to make money either?
no because most artists just want to get their work out there so that people can see it and applaud it for being great
they may open a patreon for people who want to see it as soon as possible but theyre just there to improve and to recieve critcism and praise
 

PlatinumMaster

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Nope literally all corporations i can think of are our enemies, all of them have shitty retarded ceos that only exist to siphon money out of our wallets, they hold massive monopolies over the market and shut down all forms of competition, either that or they straight up buy them like disney and maybe kill them later like with EA.
Companies are like the devil, you make deals with him but you're an idiot if you actually put your faith in him to have your back. Like the art not the artist
Wow, and here I was thinking Johnny Silverhand was only a figment of CDPR's imagination.
 

Taleweaver

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nope, i honestly cant think of any EA product that has ever been good. theyve always been shit to me and always will. there is nothing about their products that are captivating, fun or original, and if its even close to being one of those things there is most likely another AAA or indie that does it 10 times better. All i see when i hear the word EA are a bunch of talentless hacks from the day the company was formed to today.
It's off-topic, but the C&C remaster is pretty damn good. Granted, it's probably petroglyph in the actual development chair, but still... It's a bizarre (but welcome) exception to the rule.
 

A Generic User

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no because most artists just want to get their work out there so that people can see it and applaud it for being great
they may open a patreon for people who want to see it as soon as possible but theyre just there to improve and to recieve critcism and praise
Keywords being "most" and "may". Not a guarantee, now is it?
 
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it depends
i had faith in ubisoft for the longest time, but game after game it was always a boring sloppy mess so i gave up on them around the time of the second prince of persia ps2 game. never played ass ass in creed and i never will.

wayforward, i loved them before, but then i realized the only thing they have going for them are the visuals. outside of that their games are mostly kusoge ppl would hate if it wasn't for looking pretty.
shantae in particular feels like a soulless padded mess, worse than what tose does, but because it has a lot of very heavy handed sex jokes and pretty visuals ppl give it a pass. ( the 3ds game had dated as hell humor and kept pushing a "he-man is gay" joke in fu**ing 2014 like they were making some ground breaking humor/statement. )

inticreates, their games are not the same since the end of the ds life, not sure what changed, but they're games feel more like the soulless games bandai namco does with their engine than actual IC games.

game freak, i played pokemon since before it came out in english, and i loved it to bits, gen 3 was terrible but then the ds games slowly recovered on the ds, with a ton of awesome spin offs and some better main series games.
black and white was the highest point of the franchise, comparable only to gold and silver, from the original satoshi tajiri run of the series.
but when moving to 3d they became like many, and got super lazy and crappy. trying to put quantity over quality and pushing out a game beta every year.
i struggled to finish x and y, and sun and moon i just dropped halfway through and didn't got back.
the games are littered with nostalgic references to other games to make experience feel more fulfilling than it really is, and that's pretty much all they have.
the games became only a catalog for their newer lines of toys.

nintendo i'm kind of giving up on, their games feel barebones, with just the bare minimum amount of effort for it to qualify as a product. it's hard to even put into words, but when you play Yoshi crafted world or animal crossing, you'll understand what I mean. they pale in comparison to anything that came before. and in AC's case, while the phone game is getting new items every month, the switch game is just kind of there, the villagers with no unique or interesting dialogue, nothing engaging, just a imitation of what makes an animal crossing experience.
they made smartphones their portable console of the generation and their latest console is a tablet with 2 bluetooth controllers made from scraps.
the company direction has gone to sith and the investors took control, making plain jerky decisions to screw the consumer.
this is probably what iwata was trying to shield the consumers from.
i don't really think they're going to recover from this until we get a proper president, but since iwata didn't appoint anyone, it's unlikely we'll get a good one anytime soon.

sony - when the ps3 came out. they completely shifted their focus and pushed new guidelines in game making that just killed ps1 and ps2 style game development, focusing on the same boring stuff that microsoft was, big flashy releases that fundamentally are just not as good as the previous generation as an actual game game. they are to this day the fedora hat m'lady of the video game industry. trying to be edgy with pseudo intellectual games that are just a bore. their mug collecting fans seem to love it though.
they are usually either copying nintendo, being pissy about nintendo, or trying not to be nintendo ( like in puppeteer. they allowed a platformer for kids to be made, but it had to be all ugly, dark and gritty )

grezzo, from the moment i actually played one of the stiff games they make. ( sorry )

and before anyone starts whining about my opinions, this is my opinion. if you disagree good for you, or too bad.

I don't complain about these things online normally, i just enjoy the old games of some of them and don't particularly look forward to anything new, and that's good enough for me.
there's plenty of good retro games to discover and revisit and i'm happy with that.
 

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