What do you think of martial arts classes?

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I was watching the trailer for the upcoming Yip Man movie. Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I already know movies are fake. But I don't think the Kung Fu you learn today is the same as what was taught a hundred years ago. Nowadays to comply with safety laws and make the sport more accessible the difficulty has been dumbed down and there is less contact involved. Safety laws are important and should be treated as such. But I have to disagree with making it easier to make it more accessible. Skills take time, effort and dedication to learn; learning to handle physical pain is a part of martial arts training, you need to harden the fuck up.

EDIT: It's worth mentioning that I've been thinking of taking up a martial art lately. I don't want to learn Kung Fu for pussies, nor do I want some dramatic looking but ultimately ineffective shit from a movie.
 
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FAST6191

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Martial arts exercise classes. Fine. Probably not martial arts per se but can see far more appeal in those than conventional gyms.

Martial arts that teach it properly. Fine. This gets tricky as well for there is a difference between contact on nice well lit mats with some pads and a bar/street fight, and the former does less than most think to prepare you for the latter (and that is without saying anything about teaching people to hurt other people). Some can also be outright dangerous for a street fight as well -- start rolling around on the floor pulling my friend's joints and my steel plated boot is going to be crushing things you don't want crushed within a few seconds. If you only want well lit mat sparring then OK.

Those people that pretend like they are some crazy hardnut and teach gullible fools. Not a fan. Same for the more culty places (by all means keep a tidy place but some of the emphasis some place on having students clean things... nah).


Skills take time, effort and dedication to learn

I will have to find the full story but post world war 2. Some Japanese I think it was guy was teaching some American military types (basic cannon fodder, nothing special) martial arts and was noting they were taking it up rather quickly. The size, height and weight advantage allowing them to learn some fairly decent skills to useful level in fairly short order. More generally yes getting people to think about moves in terms of joints, muscles, nerves and how to attack all of them as well as read what your opponent is doing takes some time (or for them to come loaded with anatomy training). Getting people to have a good stance, throw a good punch for their body type, keep a not entirely unacceptable guard, some things that might one day help them get out of there and so forth is far easier.

As for things being a bit watered down. I did get a very nice old copy of a jui jitsu manual a little while back and it still had all the really hardcore stuff in it that apparently was dropped from later editions.
 
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SpongyLesbian

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I was watching the trailer for the upcoming Yip Man movie. Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I already know movies are fake. But I don't think the Kung Fu you learn today is the same as what was taught a hundred years ago. Nowadays to comply with safety laws and make the sport more accessible the difficulty has been dumbed down and there is less contact involved. Safety laws are important and should be treated as such. But I have to disagree with making it easier to make it more accessible. Skills take time, effort and dedication to learn; learning to handle physical pain is a part of martial arts training, you need to harden the fuck up.

EDIT: It's worth mentioning that I've been thinking of taking up a martial art lately. I don't want to learn Kung Fu for pussies, nor do I want some dramatic looking but ultimately ineffective shit from a movie.

@FAST6191 told some great stuff but I would also like to tell a few things:

Yes, the Kung Fu (or probably every other martial art) you'll learn today is a way different because in the past, martial arts were also a discipline, a life style. Now if you take a class most likely you'll only learn moves, run around, do push-ups and stuff in order to be fit. Not really different from a gym if you ask to me, at least that's what I saw.

Also I agree with you on sports being a way too easier to perform these days, it's sad and disrespectful to that art/sport in my opinion. Also while they try to make that sport/art easier to perform, they also make it to lose some elements, and that literally ruins it. Like I said; (today's classes) they are more like excercise classes(?) with some spices, not really different from a gym. If you really want to take that art as a life style I saw some modern shaolin monks in temples, you might try to go somewhere you can get taught seriously.

Hope my reply helped. By the way, I'm taking Muay Thai lessons but I'm a newbie at it (and martial arts at general) so I can't really tell you about which sport you should do et cetera. Hope you can find an art that suits you well.
 
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If you really want to take that art as a life style I saw some modern shaolin monks in temples, you might try to go somewhere you can get taught seriously.
Adding onto that, in the latter half of this video a samurai school in Japan is mentioned. To study there you have to sign an oath promising never to reveal the secrets of the martial art. It seems martial art schools which require real dedication still exist but they're not exactly in high demand.

 

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It indeed won't be like it was all the time before as previous posters specified. Next to that it indeed has become more of a gym style. It is hard to find a proper spot where they try to be as traditional as possible as most just have a laid back attitude to it.

I used to try out several martial arts but most were all just too gym like, I wanted something a bit more traditional. Kinda impossible to do I stuck to a place where they thought Taewkondo. The masters of the place where also a big fan of the tradition and traveled to South Korea several times to try to learn the proper traditional way and also to receive training in said way. They however barely applied it as they said to me because it could deter people who want a more relaxed training. The more advanced trainees including myself did get the opportunity to train monthly as an extra to do it more in the traditional way, yet would still be watered down as it still wouldn't be the lifestyle it used to be.
 

FAST6191

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Traditional here seems much the same as innovative in discussing computer games. This is to say not a synonym for good.

I am not going to train for any normal sport like they did in the 1920s. I will be doing general strength/cardio/balance... training and then something field specific, said specifics might also involve some nice slow motion footage to hone things. None of that is "traditional" per se but if my goals are to be able to beat someone into paste* it is not going to distract and will probably help -- your great seifu sensei kru might well be able to tell you that you are dipping your arm a bit during that and reducing power or opening yourself but I like tech more.

*as mentioned above such a thing might not be someone else's goal. I have always gone for self defence in a typical UK situation (no guns really, knives, bats and staves very much an option) and have never held any fondness for the marquis of queensbury but some people like the tumbling on a mat thing where you can have some fun, do some moves and be reasonably safe in doing so, others are for a less boring version of going to the gym (and I do find gyms exceptionally boring places so I can see where they are coming from here).

An example from an adjunct field probably works at this point


Just so it is not someone literally typing this in bed on forum I will point to Bruce Lee and his general philosophy here which I will summarise as go with what what works, leave the rest.
 

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Interesting topic. Before I give my opinion, I should probably mention I'm a first kyu shotokan karateka (basically...brown belt in the most popular form of karate). That obviously colors my opinion on the matter.
I was watching the trailer for the upcoming Yip Man movie. Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I already know movies are fake. But I don't think the Kung Fu you learn today is the same as what was taught a hundred years ago.
Can't speak on kung fu specifically, but I would assume so. From what I understand outside my own field, practicing martial arts as a means of sports is still relatively young. As such, it had to be adapted from a way to defend yourself from often traditionally armed enemies to a sport that focuses more on the demonstration of skill and technique rather than effectiveness.

Nowadays to comply with safety laws and make the sport more accessible the difficulty has been dumbed down and there is less contact involved. Safety laws are important and should be treated as such. But I have to disagree with making it easier to make it more accessible. Skills take time, effort and dedication to learn; learning to handle physical pain is a part of martial arts training, you need to harden the fuck up.
Believe me: there's still plenty of that "time, effort and dedication" to go around. Karate, for example, used to be that a single kata (erm...the definition would roughly be "an imaginary fight consisting of around 20-60'ish combat moves") required a full year of dedicated study. Considering that a new kata is required for each belt, it would take ten years to go from kyu 10 to kyu 1 (white to brown).
That "learning to handle physical pain is a part of martial arts training"...I won't say that it's only your opinion because it's not, but there are different schools of thought on this one. AFAIK this is more dependent on the actual martial art than how it's taught. Boxing, for example, is also an art form when practiced at a modest level, yet is (indeed) very physical in nature. Tai chi is on the other end, focusing almost exclusively on the mental aspect. Karate - and I suspect kung fu as well - is somewhere in the middle.

Shotokan karate is roughly divided in three parts: kumite, kata and kihon (translated: "fighting", the earlier explained "fight-dance thingy" and style). So in general, we practice against opponents roughly one third of our training time. There are times it's more, there are times it's less. Last monday, for example, we trained almost exclusively on one kata (jion). Tonight we'll get a guest teacher who is a former champion, so it'll be more kumite-focused. But even so: karate isn't about being able to deck the other one the most (we've got one member of 80+ years) as it is about demonstrating your skill. And as a practicer: I'm glad for it. Even with the security measures in places and the senseis banging on about "keeping control" and "remain calm", accidents can always happen when you attempt to hit the 1 cm directly in front of your opponent's chin with a fist going at mach 3 speed.

EDIT: It's worth mentioning that I've been thinking of taking up a martial art lately. I don't want to learn Kung Fu for pussies, nor do I want some dramatic looking but ultimately ineffective shit from a movie.
I can only support this: try it out. I initially went along with my brother whom had heard about 'this karate club' that was apparently good (neither of us had any experience in any martial arts whatsoever), you could start at any point and the first three lessons were free. I think my brother still has one of those lessons. It's been...five and a half year since, and I simply never stopped. :P
 

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Yes, the Kung Fu (or probably every other martial art) you'll learn today is a way different because in the past, martial arts were also a discipline, a life style. Now if you take a class most likely you'll only learn moves, run around, do push-ups and stuff in order to be fit. Not really different from a gym if you ask to me, at least that's what I saw.
I can only speak for my discipline (shotokan karate), but they're trying to keep at least the warrior spirit alive. It's not really called that (I assume we don't want to attract peeps who fall in love with those kinds of words rather than the intentions), but it's there in the small things. You bow to enter and leave the dojo, always wear the uniform (first-timers excepted), start and end with a mokuso (erm...meditational prayer), always use the Japanese terms and value the karate-do (basically "the way of karate"...or "the way of the empty hand" if you want to show off). I can tell of the written exam I had to take, of the respect elders get (karate is the only real meritocracy I know)
Adding onto that, in the latter half of this video a samurai school in Japan is mentioned. To study there you have to sign an oath promising never to reveal the secrets of the martial art. It seems martial art schools which require real dedication still exist but they're not exactly in high demand.
Devil's advocate here: why does that matter? If they want to study a secret samurai school, let them (erm...as long as they don't start wearing their katana's in public, that is :P ). That "the secrets of the martial art" is mostly bullshit. The best course of action in time of action doesn't need years of study or even much training. It's a simple as this:

Just run for it

If you want effectiveness: forget about martial arts and study krav maga. It's one thing to properly honor your enemy, fight with tradition, practice inner peace and all that jazz...but when you're in actual danger, kicking someone in the nuts is just a more effective way to go about things.
 

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I am sure that every boy must know how to fight, to protect himself, or people who does he care about. When i was a kid my dad ordered me to go to boxing club, i did not want but i did it, then after few years i could protect myself but i did not want keep going there anymore. Now when i have free time i am glad to visit fight club, MMA classes, and it is nice without a doubt. It does not matter how old you are, you should try it at least one time
 

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Martial Arts Styles also depends on the fighter you maybe best suited at one form of combat than another then experience comes into play aswell as fitness dont use it you loose it which is a bummer for all of us this also includes diet.

But I get what you mean Old School are tougher and more disciplined then again today we have much more distractions.
 

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I was watching the trailer for the upcoming Yip Man movie. Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I already know movies are fake. But I don't think the Kung Fu you learn today is the same as what was taught a hundred years ago. Nowadays to comply with safety laws and make the sport more accessible the difficulty has been dumbed down and there is less contact involved. Safety laws are important and should be treated as such. But I have to disagree with making it easier to make it more accessible. Skills take time, effort and dedication to learn; learning to handle physical pain is a part of martial arts training, you need to harden the fuck up.

EDIT: It's worth mentioning that I've been thinking of taking up a martial art lately. I don't want to learn Kung Fu for pussies, nor do I want some dramatic looking but ultimately ineffective shit from a movie.



On the other end of the spectrum from the "dumbed down" there is the bullshit machismo route taking the "hardening" part to the point where you stupidly cripple yourself for no reason. Be wary of anyone spouting the "pain is weakness leaving the body, now hit yourself in the nuts with a brick to build up immunity" crap because people who actually fight will tell you that pain is a sign you're doing something wrong and that the whole point of training a fighting style is to avoid getting hurt, not to invite it upon yourself. For example, Muay Thai has brutal bone conditioning exercises and even they will tell you to be careful because breaking your own shins by trying to be a tough guy is, shall we say, counterproductive. All the unneccessary abuse you put yourself through will come back to bite you in the ass when you're older so be careful.
 

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