Suggestion "Warez" Rules Going Largely Ignored?

Discussion in 'Site Discussions & Suggestions' started by WAUthethird, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. kuwanger

    kuwanger GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Nope, sorry. Under the Berne Convention under which 172 parties are included, "all works except photographic and cinematographic shall be copyrighted for at least 50 years after the author's death" and for photographic works it's either 25+ or 50+ depending on if/when it's shown. "Copyright under the Berne Convention must be automatic; it is prohibited to require formal registration" is a major component which applies precisely because at least some members (Europe comes to mind) believe that copyright is a natural right.

    Some countries, like the US, include further punishment (statutory damages) if registration occurs, and certainly registration can make a copyright claim easier to prove, but it's by no means a requirement. I've no idea what Greece does as far as registration, but they clearly are one of the signing parties. They may flagrantly ignore the rules, like some other countries have been known to (*cough*China*cough*).
     
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  2. tunip3

    tunip3 [debugger active]

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    I managed to keep an illegal file up for more than 1hour if I remember correctly
     
  3. ThoD

    ThoD GBATemp Maniac (apparently), but more like "bored"

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    The Berne Convention does NOT include the code of programs/applications/games and is specifically for works of different media (eg: literary, visual, music, etc.). Code falls under a different agreement and needs to be copyrighted manually. Logos, trademarks, etc. are part of the Berne Convention though, the code alone is not.
     
  4. kuwanger

    kuwanger GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Believe that if you like, but it's quite clear that "all works" are covered. It is, in fact, a cornerstone of both BSD and GPL licensing that copyright does exist precisely to allow an automatic mechanism of distribution by an agreement to specified terms. The only room to argue about the applicability of the Berne Convention is in things like APIs for which copyright may not apply, being the description of an interface instead of a creative work. And believe me, a lot of programmers' code is creative...in a bad way.

    No, sorry, trademarks are not covered under the Berne Convention. The Berne Convention is specifically of the scope of copyrighted works. Patents, trademarks, etc fall into a different field, and there's a lot less agreement on those internationally. Look no further than the EUs position on software patents vs the US.
     
  5. ThoD

    ThoD GBATemp Maniac (apparently), but more like "bored"

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    Code must be copyrighted manually as there needs to be official proof of it's uniqueness. It's illegal to use someone else's copyrighted code, so there needs to be a copy of the code submitted manually in order to ensure that no such thing as a duplicate code can exist without the approval of the dev. Code does NOT count as "works" and doesn't fall under the Berne Convention because it would be jokingly simple to rip the code and use it yourself without anyone having any way to prove your is a rip-off. Even if you release it online, it's possible to change the displayed date of the host you are using for the code, thus making it impossible to properly enforce copyrights that way.

    SOME trademarks are covered by it, others aren't. If you look at the actual legislation it's really messy, but what do you expect from something written a century ago?:P
     
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  6. tpax

    tpax GBAtemp Regular

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    > Newcomer
    > 16 posts
    > complaining about "warez rules" on a site that originated from piracy
    lol buddy, you're either a troll, or Nintendo is signing your checks
     
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  7. sarkwalvein

    sarkwalvein There's hope for a Xenosaga port.

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    I think the OP has a point.
    The ToS should be written in clear legalese so his lawyer feels comfortable every time he runs through one of his posts to give it the OK. /s

    Regarding "loopholes" like in FreeShop, etc.:
    The rules and the ToS, AFAIK, are there to prevent legal problems.
    Being a source of "morals" or playing some kind of moralizing role IS NOT in GBATemp's agenda.
    People here couldn't care less if you like to pirate or not, or if you talk about it, as long as you DON'T CAUSE LEGAL PROBLEMS to the site, so that is the reason for those rules actually.

    i.e.: AFAIK, regarding site rules, loopholes are completely OK as long as the thing stays legal enough not to create legal problems to the site.
     
    Last edited by sarkwalvein, Jan 26, 2018
  8. Edgarska
    This message by Edgarska has been removed from public view by Issac, Jan 26, 2018, Reason: Try writing words too.
    Jan 26, 2018
  9. Awesomeaustin316
    This message by Awesomeaustin316 has been removed from public view by Issac, Jan 26, 2018, Reason: Try writing words too.
    Jan 26, 2018
  10. kuwanger

    kuwanger GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    A copyrighted work doesn't have to be unique. It's just highly unlikely that anything creative and substantial wouldn't be substantially unique.

    That's a non-sequitur. Copyrighted works don't have to be registered to avoid duplicate works. It is the responsibility of a copyright holder to vigilantly look for possible infringement upon their copyright, which includes things like derivative works. Since registration on works are not mandatory, no registration database could be used to verify uniqueness and since derivative works are still covered under the original author's copyright, uniqueness would not be proof of non-infringement.

    Actually, there's been plenty of cases where people have tried to take code and pass if off as their own for which the rights owner has successfully prosecuted their case precisely because (1) most people who rip code are idiots and leave lots of obvious strings to compare against and (2) code->machine code is generally a very match-able thing unless significant effort with obfuscation has occurred. Regardless, the validity of a copyright does not hinge on the ease of infringement nor the difficulty of proving infringement.

    As a general point, the basis for proving that you're the original owner can be based upon a lot of things. Usually a simple display date is not the cornerstone proof. Having said that, yes, registration is often done on works precisely because it makes it much easier to use a registration database's date as a means of validation. That doesn't mean one can't provide proof otherwise, as generally speaking people don't dump 100% of their development work online which means the incomplete or broken sub-stages can be presented in court as a means of validation. That's pretty compelling proof vs the other side being only able to present later versions of the code as their own or having a fully formed code base as all they've got.

    Seriously, though, what you're saying applies just as well to anyone else trying to rip off anyone else, especially prior to the internet and when about the only medium available was ink and paper. If even under those conditions registration was not mandatory, the notion that code is somehow special because of how unprovable ownership could be would apply just as well to, you know, everything else put on the internet or otherwise digital or whatever.

    Having said all that, I can imagine that your or other countries have chosen to interpret the Berne Convention in some fashion to try to treat code differently, but that's clearly in violation of the agreement. Which is to say, it's little surprise when countries ignore international treaties they're party of or choose to selective interpret its language. Having said that, again, most countries do abide by the treatment of code as automatically copyrighted.
     
  11. linuxares

    linuxares I'm not a generous god!

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    If you find anything you might think is copyrighted material, report it. That's what I do and many others.
     
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  12. Issac

    Issac I

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    It's not at all unclear though. You copied and pasted everything except the title and the first sentence of that section.

    You can make anything unclear if you purposely leave out stuff.
     
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  13. Jayro

    Jayro MediCat USB and Mini Windows 10 Developer

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    Speak for yourself, OP. I condone piracy to the fullest extent. (I just won't post any links)
     
  14. wicksand420

    wicksand420 GBAtemp Addict

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    Speaking of that, if anybody bought pokemon crystal, the seed is out
     
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  15. Quantumcat

    Quantumcat Dead and alive

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    Mmm no, you're getting confused with trademarks and patents.

    From http://www.copyright.org.au/ACC/Fin...spx?hkey=b737f340-d120-4194-85fb-a6f3b415c66f
     
  16. ThoD

    ThoD GBATemp Maniac (apparently), but more like "bored"

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    For the last time, code specifically is in a category that requires you to manually register it, in order to prevent clones. Otherwise, you can just go rip the entire code of a video game, make the date on it one that was before it came out, then claim you made it. Stupid example, but unless the code itself isn't registered character for character, you have no way to prove that the people who published it didn't actually steal it themselves. I temporarily worked with a small studio that made indies and we had to register them for example, as there was a lost case where what happened in the example I gave took place.
     
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  17. smileyhead

    smileyhead Most pettable head

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    Wait, why is this thread still alive?
     
  18. ThoD

    ThoD GBATemp Maniac (apparently), but more like "bored"

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    Don't know, ask the others:P This needs to die already, so Quantumkitty, if you want to talk about the case I mentioned in my post, we got them PMs about it, no need to keep bumping this up.
     
  19. Scarlet

    Scarlet Respect the Hero

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  20. MasterJ360

    MasterJ360 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    As long ppl try to "Act" like White Knights im afraid so, its like the OP and his followers are on a mission to purge the idea of piracy from our minds. Even if ppl are breaking the rules asking for backups
    its only a small number of them mainly "New Users"
     
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  21. SimonMKWii

    SimonMKWii GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Yeah, you won't post links because these discussions don't exist!
     
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  22. Quantumcat

    Quantumcat Dead and alive

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    I didn't realise there were more pages

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    You're wrong.
    This literally comes up in a big box when you Google search "software code copyright". Quote from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_copyright

    Also
     
    Last edited by Quantumcat, Jan 30, 2018
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