Homebrew Various homebrew-related questions for someone on 10.3 OFW (Update Nags, Legit CIAs, etc.)

[kabii-sama]

Ok, let me start off by saying that I have an NA Old 3DS with 10.3 firmware and 2.5 hax (accessed mainly through Ironhax). And I have no interest in downgrading my system to a lower firmware at the moment. The entire process of downgrading and maintaining a separate SysNAND and EmuNAND just seems way too convoluted for my liking, and the main benefits of downgrading and getting CFW are allowing you to do things on your 3DS that are borderline (if not blatantly) illegal. So please don't respond trying to convince me to downgrade my 3DS.

Anyway, getting to the actual questions I had in mind... I've kept my system at version 10.3 after the 10.4 update was released primarily so that I could still use Ironhax as a homebrew entrypoint. It's just the most convenient one for me since it's always on my system (unlike OoThax) and doesn't take away any system functionality (unlike menuhax). And I've gotten around the need to update my system through various workarounds. By updating the system to version 10.3.0-30 (frankenfirmware?) I was able to regain access to stuff like eShop, Miiverse, and Badge Arcade that requires you to log in to you NNID (although eShop still needs Hans). And by updating the friend's list module, I can still play games like MK7 online, as well as use the Friends List app and Poke Bank. But some update nags remain...

First, I still get the main system update message in the home menu periodically. I tried following the delete predownloaded update guide, but the message returned before long (which I read is caused by simply using online on your 3DS). I hear there's also a method to remove the update nag using Tubehax DNS, which I still have set up from when I originally used Tubehax to install Ironhax. But I remember the Tubehax DNS preventing me from accessing the eShop and playing games online... Is there a way to set up the Tubehax DNS such that it blocks system update nags and my access to online stuff remains? Failing that, is there any other way to permanently remove the update message from the home menu? I don't see myself ever updating my 3DS until Nintendo adds new functionality to the system...

The other update problem I encounter is when using the official Save Data Transfer Tool. When I heard about the whole legit CIA thing and learned I could install them on 10.3 FW using NASA, I figured I may as well try installing some for games I already own in physical form. And they successfully installed and run without issues. But when I tried to transfer the save data of one game (specifically M&L: Dream Team) to its digital version using the aforementioned system app, I end up getting a message saying the system needs to be up-to-date when it checks if the game is up-to-date. In this case I already have the update downloaded for M&L, so that shouldn't be the issue. Is there some other system file I need to update with NASA to get around the update message? If the latest FW is absolutely required to use the transfer tool, it seems I can still use homebrew save managers to transfer saves between physical and digital games, but I'm curious nonetheless...

Now for the questions regarding legit CIAs... I hear there's an issue with installing the one for Pokemon Y, but can someone elaborate on that? Y was one of the first games I tried installing, but NASA failed to install it at all, it seems.

Also, I hear you can install out of region legit CIAs and play them using homebrew apps. But, while you can redownload your own region's legit CIAs through the eShop, you obviously can't access other regions' eShops on OFW. (Even on CFW I hear it's pretty difficult to do that.) So since none of the legit CIAs appear in your eShop download list, is it safe to assume that if (by some crazy incident) my 3DS was updated and the legit CIAs on it were deleted, I could only redownload the ones for my region? On that note, could I even delete another region's legit CIAs easily? Would they show up in the system settings data management or would I need to find them on the SD Card and manually delete them?

Last question regarding the legit CIAs... I hear they don't transfer at all during a system transfer. Is this correct when they've been installed on SysNAND using NASA? (I'm guessing it's related to the fact that they don't appear in the eShop download list.) The main reason I ask is because I was eventually thinking of buying a New 3DS (specifically the new Pokemon one) and I imagine there's no way in hell it'll be on FW any lower than 10.5... (On that note I'm sure the VC Pokemon games in the bundle will be download codes rather than pre-installed games.) On a 10.5 3DS I could still gain access to homebrew through OoThax I guess, but Ironhax would be totally dead, as would any legit CIAs I had prior to a transfer. I'm guessing not, but is there any way to downgrade a 10.5 system to 10.3 firmware?

Sorry for that essay of a post, but I couldn't really think of any better way to present it when I have several specific, interrelated questions. I'm hoping someone can provide me with answers for at least some of them.

 

[Xenon Hacks]

tldr Someone else can take this, things are gonna get ugly fast lol

 

[ecaep42]

Pokemon Y is weird because, on one thread there was an MD5 hash for it, on that iso site, there is one with a different md5, and the one from nintendo's servers also includes a different md5 from the other two. Basically, it's more of a hit and miss kind of thing.

AFAIK, legit cias are console specific, so system transfer wouldn't transfer the game.

You cannot downgrade on a firmware higher than 10.3.

 

[hobbledehoy899]

Even if the .CIA is "legit" it's still illegal because you still haven't paid any money for the game, you hypocritical moral-stick. :^)

 

[Lacius]

Ok, let me start off by saying that I have an NA Old 3DS with 10.3 firmware and 2.5 hax (accessed mainly through Ironhax). And I have no interest in downgrading my system to a lower firmware at the moment. The entire process of downgrading and maintaining a separate SysNAND and EmuNAND just seems way too convoluted for my liking, and the main benefits of downgrading and getting CFW are allowing you to do things on your 3DS that are borderline (if not blatantly) illegal. So please don't respond trying to convince me to downgrade my 3DS.

Actually, having access to emuNAND simplifies your setup, allows one to have future-proof entry points, and allows for all the benefits of keeping the system version of your emuNAND up-to-date. There's a reason why rxTools emuNAND had many users before illegitimate CIA-installation became available.

The length of your post demonstrates which us has a convoluted setup. In addition, although I didn't read through your post entirely, I should note that the installation of legit CIA files, too, is illegal.

 

[Blue]

Messing with your sysNAND and changing the NVER and CVER can cause a brick and is way more riskier than downgrading and creating a emuNAND. You say you do not want to be involved in piracy but legit cia's (on 10.3) can never be legal as you can't even dump and install them.
EDIT: Ninja'd

 

[Lacius]

Messing with your sysNAND and changing the NVER and CVER can cause a brick and is way more riskier than downgrading and creating a emuNAND. You say you do not want to be involved in piracy but legit cia's (on 10.3) can never be legal as you can't even dump and install them.
EDIT: Ninja'd

No, not ninja'd. I completely forgot to mention that access to emuNAND nearly eliminates all brick risks.

 

[Blue]

Also the Pokèmon New 3DS will definitely be under 10.3 as they are made long before announcement, so they have enough due to possible high demand. Even if it is over 10.3 you can use a hardmod (without nand.bin) to go to a frankenfirmware from there downgrade.

 

[Rhapsody]

Ok, let me start off by saying that I have an NA Old 3DS with 10.3 firmware and 2.5 hax (accessed mainly through Ironhax). And I have no interest in downgrading my system to a lower firmware at the moment. The entire process of downgrading and maintaining a separate SysNAND and EmuNAND just seems way too convoluted for my liking, and the main benefits of downgrading and getting CFW are allowing you to do things on your 3DS that are borderline (if not blatantly) illegal. So please don't respond trying to convince me to downgrade my 3DS.

Anyway, getting to the actual questions I had in mind... I've kept my system at version 10.3 after the 10.4 update was released primarily so that I could still use Ironhax as a homebrew entrypoint. It's just the most convenient one for me since it's always on my system (unlike OoThax) and doesn't take away any system functionality (unlike menuhax). And I've gotten around the need to update my system through various workarounds. By updating the system to version 10.3.0-30 (frankenfirmware?) I was able to regain access to stuff like eShop, Miiverse, and Badge Arcade that requires you to log in to you NNID (although eShop still needs Hans). And by updating the friend's list module, I can still play games like MK7 online, as well as use the Friends List app and Poke Bank. But some update nags remain...

First, I still get the main system update message in the home menu periodically. I tried following the delete predownloaded update guide, but the message returned before long (which I read is caused by simply using online on your 3DS). I hear there's also a method to remove the update nag using Tubehax DNS, which I still have set up from when I originally used Tubehax to install Ironhax. But I remember the Tubehax DNS preventing me from accessing the eShop and playing games online... Is there a way to set up the Tubehax DNS such that it blocks system update nags and my access to online stuff remains? Failing that, is there any other way to permanently remove the update message from the home menu? I don't see myself ever updating my 3DS until Nintendo adds new functionality to the system...

The other update problem I encounter is when using the official Save Data Transfer Tool. When I heard about the whole legit CIA thing and learned I could install them on 10.3 FW using NASA, I figured I may as well try installing some for games I already own in physical form. And they successfully installed and run without issues. But when I tried to transfer the save data of one game (specifically M&L: Dream Team) to its digital version using the aforementioned system app, I end up getting a message saying the system needs to be up-to-date when it checks if the game is up-to-date. In this case I already have the update downloaded for M&L, so that shouldn't be the issue. Is there some other system file I need to update with NASA to get around the update message? If the latest FW is absolutely required to use the transfer tool, it seems I can still use homebrew save managers to transfer saves between physical and digital games, but I'm curious nonetheless...

Now for the questions regarding legit CIAs... I hear there's an issue with installing the one for Pokemon Y, but can someone elaborate on that? Y was one of the first games I tried installing, but NASA failed to install it at all, it seems.

Also, I hear you can install out of region legit CIAs and play them using homebrew apps. But, while you can redownload your own region's legit CIAs through the eShop, you obviously can't access other regions' eShops on OFW. (Even on CFW I hear it's pretty difficult to do that.) So since none of the legit CIAs appear in your eShop download list, is it safe to assume that if (by some crazy incident) my 3DS was updated and the legit CIAs on it were deleted, I could only redownload the ones for my region? On that note, could I even delete another region's legit CIAs easily? Would they show up in the system settings data management or would I need to find them on the SD Card and manually delete them?

Last question regarding the legit CIAs... I hear they don't transfer at all during a system transfer. Is this correct when they've been installed on SysNAND using NASA? (I'm guessing it's related to the fact that they don't appear in the eShop download list.) The main reason I ask is because I was eventually thinking of buying a New 3DS (specifically the new Pokemon one) and I imagine there's no way in hell it'll be on FW any lower than 10.5... (On that note I'm sure the VC Pokemon games in the bundle will be download codes rather than pre-installed games.) On a 10.5 3DS I could still gain access to homebrew through OoThax I guess, but Ironhax would be totally dead, as would any legit CIAs I had prior to a transfer. I'm guessing not, but is there any way to downgrade a 10.5 system to 10.3 firmware?

Sorry for that essay of a post, but I couldn't really think of any better way to present it when I have several specific, interrelated questions. I'm hoping someone can provide me with answers for at least some of them.

Oh boy. Let's go over this real fast. Before I start, let's go over some stuff. When you post, please avoid using bold to highlight things that you aren't putting emphasis on. Also, don't make your text smaller. At all. Both combine to make your post overall hard to read, and by the looks of it, people have outright avoided handling your post as a result of this. I'll be the exception, but not before telling you that. I'm also going to quote each part of your post to handle the questions one by one, so let's get started.

Anyway, getting to the actual questions I had in mind... I've kept my system at version 10.3 after the 10.4 update was released primarily so that I could still use Ironhax as a homebrew entrypoint. It's just the most convenient one for me since it's always on my system (unlike OoThax) and doesn't take away any system functionality (unlike menuhax). And I've gotten around the need to update my system through various workarounds. By updating the system to version 10.3.0-30 (frankenfirmware?) I was able to regain access to stuff like eShop, Miiverse, and Badge Arcade that requires you to log in to you NNID (although eShop still needs Hans). And by updating the friend's list module, I can still play games like MK7 online, as well as use the Friends List app and Poke Bank. But some update nags remain...

First, I still get the main system update message in the home menu periodically. I tried following the delete predownloaded update guide, but the message returned before long (which I read is caused by simply using online on your 3DS). I hear there's also a method to remove the update nag using Tubehax DNS, which I still have set up from when I originally used Tubehax to install Ironhax. But I remember the Tubehax DNS preventing me from accessing the eShop and playing games online... Is there a way to set up the Tubehax DNS such that it blocks system update nags and my access to online stuff remains? Failing that, is there any other way to permanently remove the update message from the home menu? I don't see myself ever updating my 3DS until Nintendo adds new functionality to the system...

I'm not going to try to convince you to downgrade your system because of your morals, even though it'd be an easy solution to this problem. It's really not needed. Let's tackle this issue one part at a time. The update nag returns because the system can see that you still require a newer version of some files, most particularly the system menu. This is a given, and not something you can outright fix. So what can you do? The most direct solution is to, of course, apply the Tubehax DNS to your connection so that it can't contact the Nintendo servers responsible for checking for updates, and then using that guide you linked to to remove the nag. The thing about this is, as you've seen, this restricts access to a lot of Nintendo services, excluding some games that don't use Nintendo's servers (the ones that are being blocked, that is). There's not really a way to fix this, even if you host your own DNS with the URLs blocked; every URL blocked was carefully chosen to ensure that the update nag couldn't re-appear, so there's nothing you can really do short of not using the Tubehax DNS. In short, no, there's nothing you can really do to outright block the nag without compromising your access to online services as well. That's unfortunately just how it ends up working out. There is an alternative however, although it's against your wishes, as stated at the top of your post; I'll put it down anyway, for documentation's sake.

If you were to downgrade your 3DS to 9.2 and set up emunand, you could update your emunand to the latest version with no issues, and still retain your homebrew access and not have to use Tubehax DNS, eliminating the issue at all. Setting it up isn't that intimidating if you're following a guide or getting help from someone; if you need help badly, I'd be glad to help you. Just tell me and I'll hop on an IRC channel where we can go over what you have to do.

On another note, you say that menuhax takes away system functionality. While this may be how it seems at first, the only thing it takes away is your ability to change the theme as easily as you could before. Menuhax has an option to use a certain theme instead of the default white theme when setting it up, so if you want to use a certain theme, you can. That's up to you, though.

The other update problem I encounter is when using the official Save Data Transfer Tool. When I heard about the whole legit CIA thing and learned I could install them on 10.3 FW using NASA, I figured I may as well try installing some for games I already own in physical form. And they successfully installed and run without issues. But when I tried to transfer the save data of one game (specifically M&L: Dream Team) to its digital version using the aforementioned system app, I end up getting a message saying the system needs to be up-to-date when it checks if the game is up-to-date. In this case I already have the update downloaded for M&L, so that shouldn't be the issue. Is there some other system file I need to update with NASA to get around the update message? If the latest FW is absolutely required to use the transfer tool, it seems I can still use homebrew save managers to transfer saves between physical and digital games, but I'm curious nonetheless...

That's a bit of a special case, and I'm unfortunately not really sure how to make that work. You're better off just using something like svdt in the end though, in my opinion. Chances are there's nothing more you can do without updating the system entirely. Besides that, you're basically making yourself have to do more work and research figuring out what to downgrade to keep your system on 10.3, when you'd be better off downgrading entirely, but I'll stray away from that by your wishes.

Now for the questions regarding legit CIAs... I hear there's an issue with installing the one for Pokemon Y, but can someone elaborate on that? Y was one of the first games I tried installing, but NASA failed to install it at all, it seems.

Also, I hear you can install out of region legit CIAs and play them using homebrew apps. But, while you can redownload your own region's legit CIAs through the eShop, you obviously can't access other regions' eShops on OFW. (Even on CFW I hear it's pretty difficult to do that.) So since none of the legit CIAs appear in your eShop download list, is it safe to assume that if (by some crazy incident) my 3DS was updated and the legit CIAs on it were deleted, I could only redownload the ones for my region? On that note, could I even delete another region's legit CIAs easily? Would they show up in the system settings data management or would I need to find them on the SD Card and manually delete them?

I'm not really sure what the issue would be with Pokemon Y's CIA, but it may have something to do with it being a region-free CIA by default, while all of the other ones are region-specific. Just throwing some thoughts around.

I'm pretty sure the reason the eShop lets you download your legit CIAs again (if you don't own them), is because it checks if it's on the system first, and stops checking if you have it, instead of checking to see if you actually own it on your account. It stands to reason that you wouldn't be able to download it again at all if it wasn't on your system anymore, since it was never linked to your NNID (if it was, then you would have pre-installed games linked to your NNID, for example, which isn't what happens). I'm not sure if you would be able to delete another region's legit CIA via the data management menu, but you'd be able to find them with FBI (assuming it can uninstall legit CIAs on 10.3), or NASA if it has that feature (I don't use NASA, so I wouldn't know) and then delete them that way. I can't speak for what would happen if you found them on your SD card, since I'm not really sure how that would work out. Most people don't need to do it like this since they don't put themselves in a situation like this.

Last question regarding the legit CIAs... I hear they don't transfer at all during a system transfer. Is this correct when they've been installed on SysNAND using NASA? (I'm guessing it's related to the fact that they don't appear in the eShop download list.) The main reason I ask is because I was eventually thinking of buying a New 3DS (specifically the new Pokemon one) and I imagine there's no way in hell it'll be on FW any lower than 10.5... (On that note I'm sure the VC Pokemon games in the bundle will be download codes rather than pre-installed games.) On a 10.5 3DS I could still gain access to homebrew through OoThax I guess, but Ironhax would be totally dead, as would any legit CIAs I had prior to a transfer. I'm guessing not, but is there any way to downgrade a 10.5 system to 10.3 firmware?

I can't provide an outright answer for the first question in this quote, because this isn't really something that a lot of people try. From what I know, they probably wouldn't be transferred if you don't own the games on the eShop, but I could be wrong. The Pokemon 3DS you're looking at can't be confirmed to have 10.4+ yet, since it's not out, but there's probably a good probability that it might. That really depends on when they were put into production, so if you're concerned about that, you're best waiting for a bit and seeing what other people have to say about it.

There's no way to downgrade a 10.4-10.5 system without a hardmod. Sorry.

Anyhow, I'll echo what someone else said in this thread; your setup is extremely convoluted, and you're really doing some stuff here that you probably shouldn't, since it's somewhat unsafe. You also seem to be mistaking the definition of legal CIAs; that doesn't mean that they're legal to install or distribute! It's a term used in 3DS homebrew that means the CIA is signed and can be installed on systems without the signature check patched out. You're better off downgrading to 9.2 and getting this all out of the way, and making your life a lot easier as a result. What you're doing by installing games isn't necessarily legal, anyhow. As I said, I'd be willing to help; just say so.

 

[kabii-sama]

I'm just going to say that I wasn't trying to imply in the slightest that I'm above anyone else by choosing not to downgrade my 3DS and just sticking with homebrew apps. All I meant was that I'm not personally interested in downgrading because I'm satisfied enough with 3DS homebrew. Like, I'm pretty sure 90% of GBAtemp's userbase doesn't care about the legality of hacking and homebrew on gaming consoles (I'm obviously no different). I doubt this website would really exist if every member on it decided to follow their console's user agreements exactly and avoid modding them entirely. So I certainly do appreciate all the effort members of this community put into providing gamers ways to enhance their consoles.

For those that were saying my setup was more convoluted than CFW... Since the 10.4 and 10.5 updates were released, all I've done to maintain my homebrew stuff as is was update the Nver and Friend Module. After reading a tutorial on doing that and confirming the process was entirely reversible, all I did was download two files, drop them on the root of my SD card, and install them using the NASA homebrew app. Maybe the guide on CFW I read was a lousy one, but it seemed like it'd take far more effort to downgrade my 3DS, set up the CFW properly, and set up additional stuff set up to get the maximum benefit from CFW. Also seemed like there was far more potential to brick my system, although it might have been exclusively due to user error.

Anyway, thanks for the answers you guys provided me. I had a feeling the stuff I was asking would get some backlash, but I appreciate you satisfying my curiosity nonetheless. And Rhapsody, thanks for the offer to explain CFW further to me. I'll keep it in mind for later, along with the formatting advice. But for now, I have plenty of games on my 3DS to keep me busy, as well as games on other systems. Not to mention other hobbies I have keeping me entertained. Considering a full time job limits how much time I can even spend on my personal interests, It'll probably be a while before I consider looking into 3DS CFW further.

 

[Rhapsody]

Gotcha, no problem! Just send a PM my way if you ever need help.