USB Loader GX: Emunand cIOS or Neek2o for VC/WiWare/WADs?

Discussion in 'Wii - Backup Loaders' started by FishMonkey, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. FishMonkey
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    FishMonkey Member

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    Basically I want a simple easy to use USB Loader set up where I can just run a game and play, then do the same again without having to change any settings (this would include having to manually switch from the real nand to emunand) on the Wii physically once it is set up. I want the process to be so simple a young child could use the Wii if I set it up to automatically boot to USB Loader.

    I've read up about these two methods but I'd like to clear a few things up. I'm not planning on adding a whole set but the extra VC compatabilty for some of my childhood gems would be nice, and unfortunately a good few of these need to use the neek method but I'd rather have a simple to use wii set up, I don't mind a challenging set up processes aslong as the end result is simple.

    If I use neek2o and launch the games through USB Loader then upon exiting a Wad game will I be stuck "neek emunand mode" where I won't be able to exit back to usbloader and run Wii/GC games until I reset the Wii? Is there any way around it? It would really break the feel of the Wii for me.

    Would I need multiple neek profiles for WADs from the same region/region free?

    Is there a limit on the amount of WADs I can install? I seen something about 48 being the limit but there is a way to bypass this but iirc this wouldn't be a problem in usb Loader.
     
  2. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    I suggest you use both cIOS and neek mode.
    cIOS is fastest and easier to setup and use, but few games will need neek mode.

    If you REALLY want to use neek, it's not too complicated to create and setup, but again not all games will work on neek either.
    don't setup your console in hope to get all existing games released so far working and available at the same time. a 100% setup is very hard to create, and your kids will NEVER play all these games for all their life time. nobody really need a full setup with 100% released games in all regions, etc.
    Just focus on games you really want to play, please.
    I can help you wih making neek "easy to use", but won't spend time fixing a multi-region neek setup in hope to achieve the ultimate library.


    you are right that exiting a game in neek will return to neek's system menu. But Neek2o has an option to choose another TitleID to return to (instead of system menu; you can return to another channel installed on neek).
    It's common usage to install a channel which its purpose is to reboot the console (effectively exiting neek and returning to real NAND).
    USBLoaderGX automatically set "return to" to "NK2O" titleID. all you have to do is install a "NK2O" channel on neek's emuNAND to automatically exit neek when exiting a game.

    realNAND -> USBGX -> Neek2o autobooting game -> NK2O exiting channel -> realNAND

    you can find such channels here : https://sourceforge.net/projects/neek2o/files/


    There's a 48 channel limit display on the system menu, but there's no limitation on titles installed on NAND.
    USBGX can list all your installed games, autoboot them, and exit back to realNAND without problem.


    If you want auto-return to USBGX when exiting neek, you'll neek Priiloader set to autoboot UNEO forwarder, and have the forwarder channel installed on your realNAND.
    I might even recommend to "parental lock" the loader to prevent kids from exiting the loader, all attempt to exit to hbc or system menu will return to priiloader, which will reload the loader. they won't be able to mess the installed games and homebrew.


    Some games might not work with neek's region free patch*, so you'll need multiple neek emuNAND region.
    if you use multiple neek, there's a way to make an easy interface with USBGX.
    * don't forget to enable region free patch in neek's hidden menu : launch neek without autoboot, press 1 or 2 on the wiimote to display the hidden menu and enable region free.


    for now, just try and play with cIOS emuNAND mode. just note the non working game, and set these game to "neek" mode in their own individual game settings.
    keep the global setting to cIOS Mode for all working games. only non working games should use neek.
     
    Last edited by Cyan, Jun 12, 2018
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  3. FishMonkey
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    FishMonkey Member

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    Thank you @Cyan you've been so helpful with information in threads I found by googling made years ago already! This is exactly the information I was looking for.

    The benefit of using emunand over installing wads on your wii itself is the prevention of bricking the Wii with a "banner brick" is that right? What exactly is a this brick? What does it exactly do and what's the cause?

    I know the Wii has a very limited amount of memory but with the option to move it to an SD card but the risk must be pretty high to stop people doing this as I'm assuming this would way would run all was games and VCs or would there still be compatibility issues this way too?
     
  4. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    a brick is a term used to tell your console is as useful as a construction brick (based on his rectangular form: you can pill them up, use them as door stop, etc.), it's not working anymore for its intended purpose because you did something which prevent the console to work.
    it could be hardware fault (short circuit, bad modship install, failing wifi/BT module, etc.) and it could be software (deleting a required system files, wrong softmod steps, having a channel with a non compatible animated banner, etc.)

    Banner brick happens when you install a wad to your console (NAND or SD) which has a bad animation file (the animation you see on your system menu for that channel). If the animated banner is wrongly created or edited, the system menu crashes and you can't launch anything else, unless you have priiloader or bootmii installed to launch the Homebrew channel BEFORE the crashing system menu.

    If you install a bad banner on emuNAND, your emuNAND's system menu won't launch. you will brick only that emuNAND, and not your real NAND. it's easy to fix a brick'ed emuNAND, less easy for real NANDs.


    I wrote a guide which explain all that, but it's still unfinished. It's taking me too much time. I don't know when I'll post it, but I'm sure it'll be helpful to many people to understand all these terms and how the console works.
    I also expect the guide to cover emuNAND creation and neek usage. for now, you can read an old guide located here : https://gbatemp.net/posts/6592730
     
    Last edited by Cyan, Jun 12, 2018
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  5. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf GBAtemp Guru

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    I actually tried using one of my Wiis as a doorstop just as an experiment. They don't weigh enough. :D
     
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  6. FishMonkey
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    FishMonkey Member

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    Thank you, I did understand the term bricking from other devices, but I did like your description

    These errors would come from bad wad files and not from something going to wrong with the installation process right? Would it worth testing on emunand then doing a install on the real nand or would I still run into compatibility issues with real nand just like cIOS/neek nand mode?
     
  7. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    compatibility will be better on realNAND (even better if launched from sysmenu instead of a loader, if the game is the same region than your console), but I don't recommend installing to real NAND except for games not working with cIOS emuNAND.
    if you don't want to mess with neek, installing to realNAND/SD Menu is an option.
    if the game doesn't work neither with cIOS nor neek, then realNAND is the last hope.
    Just know or remember that all non legit channels installed to SD menu can't be launched if you don't have a patched IOS70 (done automatically by modmii's guide).

    like you said, the problem is more when installing a bad wad, bad channel, than the process of installing to NAND.
    installing can go wrong, but even official updates and eShop bought games had the same risk (power loss during install, etc.)

    Testing on neek's system menu first to see if the animated banner is good or crashes the menu is a good idea. but like I said, I'd recommend installing to NAND only if not working with emuNAND because the wii doesn't have lot of free space or slots.
    Loaders can launch channels on NAND, but not on SD menu. (it could be possible, just never has been coded).
     
    Last edited by Cyan, Jun 12, 2018
  8. FishMonkey
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    FishMonkey Member

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    Thank you again for the help, the problem when googling this stuff is that you find so many different guides due to old methods which left me a bit confused on some parts. I'll take your advice and use use both cIOS and neek mode.

    Before I start is the process for installing DLC to emuNand the same?
     
  9. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    the NAND copy can be shared for both cIOS and neek mode, the install is exactly the same.
    All you have to do is choose an option whether you want to use cIOS, or neek, when launching the game.
     
  10. FishMonkey
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    FishMonkey Member

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    I'll be following the guide you wrote here to set up the emuNand;
    https://gbatemp.net/threads/how-do-i-get-usb-loader-gx-to-properly-utilize-emunand.437521/

    It's so well written and with you clearing everything up I asked I doubt I'll run into any problems but you never know. I'll update this thread over the next couple of days if i run into any problems or to state that it went smoothly and thanking you again, especially for to the "child lock" suggestions which will definitely prevent a future thread titled "Help! My child messed up my Wii!" lol.

    My previous mod experience comes from CFW on a psp/PS3 and rooting phones. The Wii definitely uped the difficulty a peg or two.
     
  11. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    my emuNAND guide is a little old, so if you find a direct link to modmii, don't use that version. Be sure you update modmii to latest available version first, as it updated a lot of dead links. Using old modmii will not be able to retrieve needed files.
    you can also follow the second method (manually, without modmii) if you prefer.


    The wii is not more complicated than PS3. I find PS3 more complicated, because more dangerous to mess with and more secure.
    the wii is very simple to understand. it's just a different way of thinking as there's no firmware or permanent OS.
    I wish I could post my new Wii guide soon, it's still missing few graphics in its first chapter (the console, how it works and its security). other chapters (hacking, homebrew, emuNAND, etc.) are barely started to be written :( but maybe I could already post what's done so far.
     
    Last edited by Cyan, Jun 13, 2018
  12. FishMonkey
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    FishMonkey Member

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    That's probably why I'm finding the Wii so different and tricky than what I'm used to.

    If you could post what you've got so far that would be amazing if you're happy to do that but I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to wait until you've completed it. I'm assuming if I follow that guide with an updated version of modmii the steps would still be the same.
     
  13. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    yes, the modmii steps are the same.

    the guide is a mess past chapter 2 (I wrote things in random order, just as place holder).
    I might have to remove that to post the first chapters publicly. I'll see what I choose to do.
    I hope users will read it, and helpers will use it to point users to it too ! it's its first purpose, stop people re-write the same answers over and over and have a guide to refer to, but it's soooo big I fear it might frighten people :P
    I try to make small sections to point to when needed.
     
    Last edited by Cyan, Jun 14, 2018
  14. FishMonkey
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    FishMonkey Member

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    What chapters have you got so far? Is it soooo big it would take over a day to read? I think people will read it then re-read it again especially the people seeking this information, which from the amount of threads & posts here is quite alot. I spend ages googling something to then find something new, googling the new found information to then find a thread stating that the new information is actually old information lol.

    The people who don't like reading should learn to like it imho ha! I'm sure the people who don't want to read lots will just use the contents or ctrl+f to find the information they want.
     
  15. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    the first chapter covers hardware, CPU, RAM, boot sequence, how the console works, which app is loaded, etc.
    the second chapter covers the file system (folders, files purpose, what an IOS is and how it's used) and security (planing for hacking section, talking about signature, Trucha bug and AHB access).
    It's missing the cIOS part to complete chapter 2.
    I planned to put it in chapter 3 (homebrew overview, install, setup, etc.), but I might put it in file system instead, where IOS already are, though cIOS are not needed outside of the hacking section. It's mostly needed for game loaders now, so I'm not sure where it's best to put it.


    I'm writing it for more than a month now, but reading it I guess it could take one or two hour? (when complete)
    you could skip some part, but it's better to read all because I try to write chronologically to keep knowledge and terms in reading order.

    edit:
    I guess I'll put cIOS in loader section (later), so I can post currently written part.
     
    Last edited by Cyan, Jun 14, 2018
  16. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    @FishMonkey, @GreyWolf, @Kafluke (for the one I remember :P)
    I finally posted the guide I advertised for weeks !
    It's in wii guide section, I locked it to prevent anyone to post in it until I complete it. I might need to create more posts, I don't want comments in-between.
    https://gbatemp.net/threads/wii-hacking-explained.501605/

    It's not complete ! I have so much left to write.
    I hope it's already useful to some people (hardware and IOS should help a lot of people understand what they are doing when hacking the console).
    I hope I didn't write too much idiocy, wrong information, or useless information ! :lol:

    Chapter1 should be complete.
    Chapter2 is not complete, spellchecked, and it's missing few pictures I want to add.

    I decided to post what's already done because every day I notice users could benefit from that knowledge.


    Note: this thread is still for emuNAND and neek2o help. let's not make it my guide's comment thread.
    If there's a big demand, I can make an official thread for that.
     
    Last edited by Cyan, Jun 14, 2018
  17. Kafluke

    Kafluke GBAtemp Psycho!

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    @Cyan it looks good! I like the layout and flow. I'd like to look at the code if I could to know how you did the buttons etc. I'm still working on the Switch guide and I'd love to incorporate some of these concepts.
     
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  18. Cyan

    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    Thank you :)


    The tags are mix of usual old ones :

    header : [h]title[/h]
    main header, with bigger text : [center][h][size=6]title[/size][/h][/center]

    and new tags :
    [tabs]
    [tab=tab 1 title]tab 1 content[/tab]
    [tab=tab 2 title]tab 2 content[/tab]
    [/tabs]

    and the big colored boxes :
    [information=title]text[/information]
    same for : warning, error and success.


    There are also 2 new table tags I didn't use : table and datatable.
    you can see how to use here : https://gbatemp.net/help/bb-codes


    I created this one : [​IMG], but I'm not liking it that much. I'm sure it could look better.

    I can give you edit access if you need/want. if it's just for the code I used, I should have cover it.
     
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  19. FishMonkey
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    FishMonkey Member

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    I just jumped on to ask when this will be posted. Its finally the weekend so I'll definitely get some Wii time and have a proper read tomorrow!
     
    Last edited by FishMonkey, Jun 15, 2018
  20. FishMonkey
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    FishMonkey Member

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    I set up emuNAND on USB launcher but have run into problems already :(

    I changed the path from sd to usb.
    Done a full emunand dump.
    Installed a few wads to emunand.

    All the games appear fine but when I launch and of the games installed it returns me to the wii menu. I haven't got to setting up neek yet. Is something out of date or have I missed something obvious?

    That guide is looking great btw, I will dig into it soon and get some Wii knowledge under my hood soon.

    Edit: Strangely it will work fine from my SD card but not usb, is this usual?
     
    Last edited by FishMonkey, Jun 16, 2018
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