US troops withdrawal from Afghanistan

[Viri]

I'm not going to read over this dumpster fire of a thread.

But my major complaint about the moveout, is that we STILL have American civilians, native translators, and natives that helped the US in Afghanistan, STILL in Afghanistan. Those Americans who aren't part of the military, those native translators and other natives who helped the US, the people who would be fucked hard, if the US moved out, should have been out of Afghanistan back in Fed/March.


Instead they're freaking out, trying to get a flight out now of Afghanistan, because they know they're FUCKED. I don't care what administration is in charge, they should have had a plan to get these people out months ago. These natives are fucked over, because they helped the US. This will teach other countries to not help the US in the future. Because they'll abandon your ass, the moment they bail out.


The most powerful country in the world, should have had a plan to get these people out, months ago. I do agree we needed to get the fuck out of Afghanistan, but these people should have been out of the country first.

 

[Xzi]

@Xzi we should've eliminated bin laden (which the obama admin did) then get the hell out,we should just bolster our defenses here at home cause we still have Russia to contend with too

Yep. I'd take it one step further even and hold the Saudi royals involved with the planning and funding of 9/11 both criminally and civilly liable for those actions. Just about all of them should be imprisoned for life, and they should have to pay out billions in restitution to the families of 9/11 victims. Instead they were still free to murder Jamal Khashoggi years later, and they got away with that scot-free too.

 

[Xzi]

But in the end, it's those pictures on the other side of the screen from me, the fact that that, you know, we have this airport secured, but we have no way of getting Americans and our Afghan allies from downtown Kabul or elsewhere in Afghanistan to that airport. And as long as that remains the situation, the president can make any speech he wants, get any interview he wants, it isn't going to make any difference. That's what people are focusing on, that Americans and American allies are unable to get to the airport and get to that hope and freedom on one of those C-17s.

See, that I can agree with. This doesn't need to remain a problem, the military can send out multiple squads of ten to twenty troops in order to find stranded individuals and escort them back to the airport. The Taliban are not targeting anyone they know to be American, for fear of retaliation.

 

[Darth Meteos]

It's a tragic way to end the war in Vietnam, but at least it's finally over.

 

[Xzi]

I hope that remains true for those that are American. I have read local people (American supporters) have not fared as well in some cases. Don't know what the state is now, but there were many a day or so ago that did not want to dare to cross the Taliban lines outside the Airport.

Yeah of course they want to reduce/eliminate support for the US among the Afghan people, but if we have American troops escort Afghan allies to the airport, I seriously doubt the Taliban would risk attacking them. If the goal is to control the entire country ASAP, you don't disrupt your enemy when they're retreating half a world away. They only want to intimidate and give the impression that they're in charge.

 

[DoubleDate]

Yeah of course they want to reduce/eliminate support for the US among the Afghan people, but if we have American troops escort Afghan allies to the airport, I seriously doubt the Taliban would risk attacking them. If the goal is to control the entire country ASAP, you don't disrupt your enemy when they're retreating half a world away. They only want to intimidate and give the impression that they're in charge.

I trully hope that you are right and they dont have in their delusional mind to attack any one of them. Im praying from my heart that all of this does end in a way that no bad things follows.

There is a large resistant group forming, they have taken 2 cities from the extremist. A general major and Massoud's son. I hope that it picks momentum and many join them so that people at least can be freed from those delusional extremist.

Even i haven't heard anything about the soldiers being targeted, the extremist are hitting and slamming US citizens (Or any other). They are even taking their passports and burning them.

 

[Hanafuda]

Hey, 158 operational Backhawks left behind, for the Taliban to use or sell?? Psssh. Just a billion dollars give or take, don't have a cow man.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/meuser-black-hawks-afghanistan-taliban/2021/08/19/id/1032994/

 

[gene0915]

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/biden-falsely-claims-us-doesnt-have-military-presence-syria

 

[Xzi]

Hey, 158 operational Backhawks left behind, for the Taliban to use or sell?? Psssh. Just a billion dollars give or take, don't have a cow man.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/meuser-black-hawks-afghanistan-taliban/2021/08/19/id/1032994/

If there's one thing the US military is good at, it's wasting money. The good news is that these Blackhawks are not operational in the hands of the Taliban, they don't have the training to fly them or the knowledge necessary to maintain them. Even the logistics of obtaining the proper fuel are a nightmare.

 

[Hanafuda]

If there's one thing the US military is good at, it's wasting money. The good news is that these Blackhawks are not operational in the hands of the Taliban, they don't have the training to fly them or the knowledge necessary to maintain them. Even the logistics of obtaining the proper fuel are a nightmare.

I'm sure China will be happy to take them off their hands. Just for the neat gizmos, gadgets, and classified info stored on them.

 

[Foxi4]

A quick reminder that this board is for discussion of recent world events, not for sharing memes. Any clowns will be sent to the circus if needs be.

If there's one thing the US military is good at, it's wasting money. The good news is that these Blackhawks are not operational in the hands of the Taliban, they don't have the training to fly them or the knowledge necessary to maintain them. Even the logistics of obtaining the proper fuel are a nightmare.

In all fairness, they also didn't have the flight training or expertise to fly Boeings, but that didn't stop them from crashing two into the Twin Towers. When you have this many helicopters, you can crash one or two - how hard could it possibly be to fly one compared to any other chopper?

 

[Dakitten]

A quick reminder that this board is for discussion of recent world events, not for sharing memes. Any clowns will be sent to the circus if needs be.
In all fairness, they also didn't have the flight training or expertise to fly Boeings, but that didn't stop them from crashing two into the Twin Towers. When you have this many helicopters, you can crash one or two - how hard could it possibly be to fly one compared to any other chopper?

As an Air Force vet, I can promise that it is extremely complicated and dependent on several individuals beyond the cockpit. Intuitive to fly, but difficult to launch and land.

 

[tabzer]

There is a strong presence of damage control going on here. Suggesting that giving terrorists weapons is nbd because they are too stupid to utilize them.

Sounds a lot like the voter ID argument.

 

[Foxi4]

As an Air Force vet, I can promise that it is extremely complicated and dependent on several individuals beyond the cockpit. Intuitive to fly, but difficult to launch and land.

Oh, I can imagine - it's not a toy. My point was that the Taliban has plenty of resources to acquire both the necessary documentation and staff to train pilots. The idea that they're a rag tag band of misfits with no structure or financing is silly - they're loaded and well-organised.

 

[Xzi]

In all fairness, they also didn't have the flight training or expertise to fly Boeings, but that didn't stop them from crashing two into the Twin Towers.

Osama Bin Laden had CIA training, and the hijackers who were supported by Saudi Arabia no doubt had a fair amount of training and resources available to them as well.

On that note however, I am fully back on the "fuck Biden" bandwagon, as some interviews and quotes which I hadn't seen before recently came to my attention. Biden is of the opinion that the US holds no responsibility for the well-being or safe evacuation of any Afghan citizens, even those who assisted us during our operations there. He's reiterated this stance multiple times, and very recently had Macron's plea for moral responsibility scrubbed from call logs. This isn't all that surprising for a neoliberal, but I guess I was just hoping it was a position he had "evolved" on by now.

And before anyone chimes in on the "much better job" Trump would've done, let's not forget he abandoned the Kurds in almost the exact same fashion. He also wasn't known for his compassion toward immigrants or refugees. We were only given the illusion of choice on this particular matter; just another example of how deeply flawed the two-party system is and has always been.

 

[notimp]

Not sure if I'm wrong on this, havent had an opportunity to reflect on this or lob it over to people, and dont know if thats just me being overly cynical...

But I've heard stuff like this: US translators, helpers and their families account for "several ten-thousands" of people in Afghanistan at this point. Emigration being granted over the last year towards people from the region in the US was below 100. People having reached Kuwait and now Texas via flights is 600, lets maybe double that.

People having reached spain by now was 70, people having reached germany, also well below 100.

Greece has given out a statement that it will be very strict, and push back Afghans at its borders - so larger refugee waves dont reach Europe.

And the "liberal" stand to take currently is exemplified, by a tweet of Usula von der Layen who after visiting the 60 folks in Spain had to say the following:

Moved by the outstanding commitment and extraordinary strength we have witnessed today at the reception hub in Torrejón, Madrid.

It is our moral responsibility to help those who arrive in Spain, and those who remained in Afghanistan.

My full statement 👉 https://t.co/eOMb4jOdT0 pic.twitter.com/ZfEUr7RuVG

— Ursula von der Leyen (@vonderleyen) August 21, 2021

--
And all I get is - US is never moving tens of thousands of people out of country. All political efforts will always be centralized around keeping refugee movements within the general region. Newspapers in my country may produce headline articles about how important it is to take on more people in a situation like that, and dont send back people into country anymore - because its on the brink of a civil war. But no one will even mention the position of Greece which would be the official European policy stance on that matter.

Oh - and here are their education stats: https://wenr.wes.org/2016/09/education-afghanistan

So most of this likely is driven by cost analysis.

So are we talking about the 600 people that reached us per plane, or...

 

[DoubleDate]

Osama Bin Laden had CIA training, and the hijackers who were supported by Saudi Arabia no doubt had a fair amount of training and resources available to them as well.

On that note however, I am fully back on the "fuck Biden" bandwagon, as some interviews and quotes which I hadn't seen before recently came to my attention. Biden is of the opinion that the US holds no responsibility for the well-being or safe evacuation of any Afghan citizens, even those who assisted us during our operations there. He's reiterated this stance multiple times, and very recently had Macron's plea for moral responsibility scrubbed from call logs. This isn't all that surprising for a neoliberal, but I guess I was just hoping it was a position he had "evolved" on by now.

And before anyone chimes in on the "much better job" Trump would've done, let's not forget he abandoned the Kurds in almost the exact same fashion. He also wasn't known for his compassion toward immigrants or refugees. We were only given the illusion of choice on this particular matter; just another example of how deeply flawed the two-party system is and has always been.

I agree. Trump leaving the Kurds on their own was such a betrayal as what Biden did. The differences between the 2 is that the Kurds were more organized and were already fighting the enemy. Biden saying that Afghans were cowards, is so wrong. I saw yesterday a very recent documentairy where the extremist ask the soldiers to surrender, whdn they did they were nontheless killed. The Afghan didn't have any air support like the Kurds were seeying. Biden completely abandoned everyone. It was already commented months before that the Afghan soldiers wouldn't be capable to hold in it on their own. Soldiers and people who worked for the US are being killed. There are some very very horrific video's out that shows how those evil delusional extremist are doing things.

If Biden only listened to his intellingence source who told him that the whole country (Afghanistan) would collapse, things could've gone in a different way.

Both didn't do good things, but what Biden did is in whole level different that what Trump sadly did with the Kurds. Biden let his own citizens and a whole army of weapons at the hand of extremist who are not living in the 21st century. What is so ironic is, they ban western things yet they use western technology (Phones, weapons) Shouldn't they be using sticks since they dislike all western things.

Biden lying through his teeth and the extremist the same, lies and more lies. I trully hope that all people are evacuated and after that if those extremist try something, bomb them out of this galaxy. They

 

[Deleted member 194275]

Biden is extremely evasive about USA's responsibility right now. He is taking the "America First" to the next level. Now I got how bad were the two choices that American had in the past elections.

So, good luck to the honest American people here, you faced 4 awfully years, and the next 4 will not be any better.

 

[Xzi]

The differences between the 2 is that the Kurds were more organized and were already fighting the enemy.

The only difference between the two is that the Kurds had to submit to Putin after we left, and Afghans had to submit to the Taliban. Neither is a positive outcome.

If Biden only listened to his intellingence source who told him that the whole country (Afghanistan) would collapse, things could've gone in a different way.

That's not what military leadership was telling him or any previous president. They were blowing smoke up all the politicians' asses, on both sides of the aisle. Nevertheless, Biden should've finished evacuating all of our Afghan allies prior to beginning the evacuation of Americans.

Both didn't do good things, but what Biden did is in whole level different that what Trump sadly did with the Kurds.

I disagree, both decisions were completely lacking in empathy and understanding of our responsibilities to the region which we destabilized. Trump would not have acted any differently during our withdrawal from Afghanistan, he would've only left even sooner. As I said: we were only given the illusion of choice in this matter.

 

[notimp]

Nevertheless, Biden should've finished evacuating all of our Afghan allies prior to beginning the evacuation of Americans.

Thats an emotional statement, right?

Allies and families: 30k+
People from Afghanistan given US citizenship in 2020: less than 100
People flown out of Kabul in the past days: 3.300
https://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-mo...ens-evacuated-from-afghanistan-181612743.html
People evacuated from Afghanistan in the past weeks: 18k
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-speech-afghanistan-americans-come-home/
US Citizens still in Afghanistan: 15k

People from Afghanistan The LA Times says the US could give refuge to: 150K
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/sto...ugee-crisis-and-can-shape-the-worlds-response


Here: UVDLs Statement on the current position of the EU:

Here, I want to emphasise that the European Union is firmly committed to continue supporting the NGOs operating in the country. Humanitarian needs are increasing with the latest development. If we look at the number of internally displaced people, it is the largest number, it is 3.7 million people almost. And 80% of them are women and girls, and children. And they are the most at risk. So we must help ensure that displaced Afghans can safely return to their homes, or have at least a perspective, whether they are currently in Afghanistan or in the neighbouring countries. And for that purpose, the Commission is currently working on increasing its current humanitarian aid.

europa.eu/!hygTrb

Thats distinctly not "lets fly 150k of them to Guam", and I highly doubt, that the US position will ever become that. (Or even to take in 30k+ helpers and family.)

edit: G7 meeting this week will decide on routes:

This means, first, that we must offer legal and safe routes globally, organised by us, the international community, to those who need protection. And for this to be effective, we must act together on a global level. That will be indeed one of the issues, Charles and Pedro, that I think is central to the G7 meeting next week. At the G7 meeting, I would like to follow up on the Resettlement Forum that the Commission organised in July together with some Member States, with Canada, the United States and the UNHCR. This resettlement of vulnerable people is of utmost importance, it is our moral duty.

And in this Resettlement Forum, we agreed to coordinate our efforts to find much needed solutions for refugees in need of protection. So now is the time to put that commitment into action. And in particular, we need to think about those in imminent danger in Afghanistan, such as journalists or human rights defenders, and especially women and girls.

And I'd be severely surprised if a large proportion of them end up in western countries, as by a G7 decision.


Googled more:
UK says it would take 20k (which is surprisingly high)
edit: Ah, "about 5000 are expected in the UK within the first year".
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...n-to-resettle-20000-refugees-from-afghanistan

EU has put up funding for 30k until the end of this year
https://www.euronews.com/2021/08/16...europe-on-the-verge-of-a-fresh-refugee-crisis

UNHCR says estimated number of people displaced is 400k:
https://www.euronews.com/2021/08/16...europe-on-the-verge-of-a-fresh-refugee-crisis

Refugee Routes into Europe are going through Turkey and Belarus (same source).

edit: Neat graph on how Afghan refugees were "dispersed" in 2020:

https://theconversation.com/where-do-afghanistans-refugees-go-166316