US Supreme Court rules against EPA in West Virginia vs EPA

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SScorpio

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This may seem minor, but it can open the door to many other challenges. A quick break down is that there is no constitutional power for Congress to delegate its power to un-elected federal agencies.

This means EPA regulations and the like would need to go through Congress and be approved by a vote, versus the EPA coming up with standard and implementing them without any type of vote.


https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ho...uld-hobble-bidens-climate-efforts-2022-06-28/

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/20-1530_n758.pdf
 
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Nothereed

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Great, so in other words, Republican's can filibuster anything that get's into the senate, and kill it on the spot. Perfect for something where we need something done essentially now for us not to live in a climate change hellhole.

Just keeps making the court look even more illegitimate.
 

SScorpio

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Great, so in other words, Republican's can filibuster anything that get's into the senate, and kill it on the spot. Perfect for something where we need something done essentially now for us not to live in a climate change hellhole.

Just keeps making the court look even more illegitimate.
I guess that's one way to look at it, here's another.

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Nothereed

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I guess that's one way to look at it, here's another.
What comes first? people? or what was written down on a piece of paper? Because right now, with that argument, your saying that the paper and it's logic comes first. Not the people. Striking down the EPA only hurts the people.
 

SScorpio

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What comes first? people? or what was written down on a piece of paper? Because right now, with that argument, your saying that the paper and it's logic comes first. Not the people. Striking down the EPA only hurts the people.
Did you see what the complaint against the EPA was? The concern is that they were trying to enforce sweeping laws without taking into account the economic impact which also hurts everyone including you and me in our wallets, layoffs for other people, etc.

If legislation can't be passed in Congress, then maybe it isn't good. Their entire job is striking deals, not being able to get everything they want whenever they want.

Trump struck down the climate EO when he got into office. The US still met the demands without it being law. If you educate and get people to care and act, you can get your way if you actually have a good argument.
 

Veho

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The concern is that they were trying to enforce sweeping laws without taking into account the economic impact which also hurts everyone including you and me in our wallets, layoffs for other people, etc.
The same argument can (and has) been made for lead paint and asbestos.
 

orangy57

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remember when caring about environmental stuff was a bipartisan normal person issue and NIXON made the EPA in the 70s?

also how is the supreme court burning thru like 10 cases a week now ruth bader ginsburg rlly dropped the ball by not retiring before she became a withered skeleton
 

SScorpio

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The same argument can (and has) been made for lead paint and asbestos.
Sure, and if you see the rest of my comment about educating people you can create change. Look at people seeing fat as bad an going all in on sugar. Get caring about it and they demand their Congress representatives fight for change.

remember when caring about environmental stuff was a bipartisan normal person issue and NIXON made the EPA in the 70s?

also how is the supreme court burning thru like 10 cases a week now ruth bader ginsburg rlly dropped the ball by not retiring before she became a withered skeleton
Being a conservationist is not a bad thing. Yet when I go out in nature I'm picking up after myself, yet people who care so much leave litter everywhere. See the recent pictures of the climate event Gretta was at? After words, trash everywhere. Those young people care oh so much.

This last week seems like it ramped up, but that's just because it's the end of a term. It happens every single time. It's just that this year there was Roe v Wade which brought a ton of media attention. In other years West Virginia v EPA, the New York carry permit decision, etc would have happened with the vast majority of people having a talking head mention it once in the evening news and life then goes on.
 
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Kraken_X

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I know a lot of people have been brainwashed into thinking regulation is bad, but these regulatory agencies are the most important part of government. They exist to keep us safe. I know sometimes they don't do the best job at that due to lack of funding, regulatory capture and interference from a corrupt congress, but they are a million times better than nothing. Saying that they can't do anything beyond what the law explicitly states is akin to shutting them down because the law wasn't written with this restriction in place, and writing a new law that just describes everything every agency already does would be tens of thousands of pages. Plus there would be no flexibility if situations and needs change.

These agencies ensure that our drinking water and food won't make us sick. That the water supply isn't contaminated before it's used for farming. That our electronics don't explode in our faces and start fires. That buildings and bridges won't collapse. Now all of that has been gutted and corporations are free to cut as many corners as they want, and it's on us as consumers to figure out what is dangerous and what isn't on our own. You already waived your rights to legal recourse in the 60+ page EULA you didn't read, so these agencies were the only things left to protect us.

And no, the "free market" alone can't protect us. Nobody has time to read reviews of every product to ensure its safe, and in the case of food, to read those reviews every time a new batch is made that could be contaminated. We also know how easy it is to fake or entice good reviews. Boycotts only work if everyone does it, and word of mouth alone won't reach critical mass, plus we can't boycott companies that only sell to other businesses.
 
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SScorpio

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I know a lot of people have been brainwashed into thinking regulation is bad, but these regulatory agencies are the most important part of government. They exist to keep us safe. I know sometimes they don't do the best job at that due to lack of funding, regulatory capture and interference from a corrupt congress, but they are a million times better than nothing. Saying that they can't do anything beyond what the law explicitly states is akin to shutting them down because the law wasn't written with this restriction in place, and writing a new law that just describes everything every agency already does would be tens of thousands of pages. Plus there would be no flexibility if situations and needs change.

These agencies ensure that our drinking water and food won't make us sick. That the water supply isn't contaminated before it's used for farming. That our electronics don't explode in our faces and start fires. That buildings and bridges won't collapse. Now all of that has been gutted and corporations are free to cut as many corners as they want, and it's on us as consumers to figure out what is dangerous and what isn't on our own. You already waived your rights to legal recourse in the 60+ page EULA you didn't read, so these agencies were the only things left to protect us.

And no, the "free market" alone can't protect us. Nobody has time to read reviews of every product to ensure its safe, and in the case of food, to read those reviews every time a new batch is made that could be contaminated. We also know how easy it is to fake or entice good reviews. Boycotts only work if everyone does it, and word of mouth alone won't reach critical mass, plus we can't boycott companies that only sell to other businesses.
And those agencies have been failing us before they were gutted. Look at the opioid epidemic, the US's failed nutritional system pushing us towards foods that are unhealthy for us.

We have the EPA holding up public works projects for years for environmental impact studies. All the while infrastructure crumbles around us.

The agencies can continue doing their jobs, but they can't create new legislation and enforce it. Those needs to pass through Congress.
 
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Xzi

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Next up they're gonna rule that state legislatures can override the will of the people in elections. Hot on the heels of Thomas stating he believes COVID-19 vaccines are made from aborted fetuses. I knew it was only a matter of time until dipshits brought fascism to this country, I just didn't think it would be dropped on our heads all at once.
 
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Kraken_X

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And those agencies have been failing us before they were gutted. Look at the opioid epidemic, the US's failed nutritional system pushing us towards foods that are unhealthy for us.

We have the EPA holding up public works projects for years for environmental impact studies. All the while infrastructure crumbles around us.

The agencies can continue doing their jobs, but they can't create new legislation and enforce it. Those needs to pass through Congress.
So your argument is that since these agencies weren't doing a perfect job they shouldn't be able to do anything at all?

The legislation to improve these agencies will never pass. The republican party is quite open about being anti-regulation and democrats can't pass it without them.
 

Xzi

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So your argument is that since these agencies weren't doing a perfect job they shouldn't be able to do anything at all?

The legislation to improve these agencies will never pass. The republican party is quite open about being anti-regulation and democrats can't pass it without them.
It's also worth noting these agencies have been sabotaged by republicans for decades. They're severely underfunded. Even the IRS, which you would think would have a ton of resources, can only really afford to audit the poor. By design, of course.
 
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SScorpio

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So your argument is that since these agencies weren't doing a perfect job they shouldn't be able to do anything at all?
My argument is those agencies are bloated, failing to do what they are intended to do, and trying to force the will whoever has the most money to influence them rather than doing the will of the people.

Have you never seen the revolving door of people in charge of these agencies leaving and getting kushy high playing jobs in the private sector?

And where did I say they couldn't do anything? They can continue doing the jobs they were created to do, testing things for safety. Prosecuting polluters, etc. But not expanding their power and pushing for rich people's agendas.
 

Kraken_X

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Congress already had the authority to make improvements to these agencies and they didn't. What makes you think that they will now?

Regulatory capture is a problem for sure, but congress also has a bribe > congressman > lobbyist pipeline too.
 

SScorpio

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Congress already had the authority to make improvements to these agencies and they didn't. What makes you think that they will now?

Regulatory capture is a problem for sure, but congress also has a bribe > congressman > lobbyist pipeline too.
I have no idea if they will or won't. But hopefully more people get involved in politics and start demanding and voting for change.

Start voting out the people who have been in office for 50 years, and start voting in people who want to change things. Congress are representatives of their constituents, start reminding them they aren't elites over the rest of the country.
 

Nothereed

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Start voting out the people who have been in office for 50 years, and start voting in people who want to change things. Congress are representatives of their constituents, start reminding them they aren't elites over the rest of the country.
As I mentioned time and time sgain. The Republican party voted against the removal of gerrymandering. Meaning that a majority of people can "vote them out" but fail becsuse how heavily gerrymandered the state is.
 
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Glyptofane

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Next up they're gonna rule that state legislatures can override the will of the people in elections. Hot on the heels of Thomas stating he believes COVID-19 vaccines are made from aborted fetuses. I knew it was only a matter of time until dipshits brought fascism to this country, I just didn't think it would be dropped on our heads all at once.
He didn't say they are made from aborted fetuses, but that fetal cell lines were used during development which is true.
 

TraderPatTX

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Next up they're gonna rule that state legislatures can override the will of the people in elections. Hot on the heels of Thomas stating he believes COVID-19 vaccines are made from aborted fetuses. I knew it was only a matter of time until dipshits brought fascism to this country, I just didn't think it would be dropped on our heads all at once.
You should read the Constitution. It states that that state legislatures have complete domain over elections.

Imagine thinking that issues going back to the states to be voted on by the representatives of the people as being fascism. You people look more foolish every time you use the f word, so by all means, continue to use it.
 
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