1. the_randomizer

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer
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    Mobile games would suck less without having to use touchscreen controls
     
  2. Jonna

    Jonna Some sort of musician.
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    Agreed. That's why I use a Bluetooth controller that pressures the sides onto the phone like a Switch. And that's mainly when I'm bored and not at home. And even then, I just play emulators.
     
  3. J-Machine

    J-Machine Self proclaimed Pog champion
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    tim is just a cry baby. if I were a company selling mac and cheese in a store and then set up a cashier to circumvent the stores payment options so I get all the money It would be deemed illegal
     
  4. eriol33

    eriol33 GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    gamers should support epic games. They are trying to break the monopoly from the big publishers.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    this is also the reason I am not interested buying any apple products.
     
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  5. Prans

    OP Prans Geek, gamer, human
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    Epic is going against Google as well. Post has been updated with this info.
     
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  6. PatrickD85

    PatrickD85 GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    Welll that escalated even faster then I initially thought.

    But this goes to show it's all a MONEY game. Nothing about this has anything to do with the game aspect anymore.
    People should never forget; APPLE, GOOGLE and EPIC are companies ... and they are in it to make as much money as possible. The game, the players all of the things you could think of come after that.

    Harsh ... maybe.
    True, you damn right it's true.
     
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  7. MiiJack

    MiiJack GBAtemp Regular
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    :unsure: now I can't predict how this will turn out, what will happen if Epic wins (Can they even win this)? Will they be the only exempted of the 30%, will all indie devs also be exempted? Will this lead to a rise of IAP everywhere?
    What will happen if Epic loses? Will they be banned on all platform they tried to bypass the 30%? Will they just accept the 30% pay the rest and move on?
     
  8. eriol33

    eriol33 GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    If epic wins it means developers could add another payment option to process their transaction so more choice for the customers
     
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  9. Xzi

    Xzi GBAtemp's Resident Plok Expert
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    Ideally, sure. Realistically, Tencent has a hold over a very large segment of the mobile gaming market, and no reason to let that go. So should Epic somehow win these lawsuits, I'd bet money on their next move being the launch of the "Tencent App Store" or the "Epic Mobile Games Store," where they get a cut of every sale and in-app purchase (but a lesser cut than Google or Apple takes, ooh how generous :rolleyes:).

    Granted, developers would no longer be required to list their games on any of the new "big three," but they'd also be exponentially less likely to find any sort of success without using at least one of them. So remember kids: Epic says duopoly = bad, but triopoly = good. :teach:
     
  10. Bladexdsl

    Bladexdsl ZOMG my posts...it's over 9000!!!
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    hope epic loses big time. about time they learned they can't do whatever the fuck they want and FADnite is just an overrated shit game for little kids and should not be worshiped. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited by Bladexdsl, Aug 14, 2020
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  11. VartioArtel

    VartioArtel GBAtemp Regular
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    But treating devs fairly does not make them a monopoly/anti-trust. They may have an almost abusive deal, but nothing's FORCING them to go to that market other than themselves. There's still the Android, PC, and Console Markets. Ergo, there's no monopoly, and the deal was there clear as day.

    Ooor they could just be on a different phone type and thus fans of the iOS would have less reason to BE an Apple customer and swap over to Android, etc. That's still a competitive market. There's nothing wrong with being on every console EXCEPT one. See: Nintendo, which usually IS the odd-man out when games are multi-platform.

    Apple can live without fortnite. Fortnite/Epic can exist without Apple. This is just about greed on both ends. The issue however is "Apple's getting a share, and we want the whole pie despite agreeing to the share".

    But nothing about how they handle their store is, in itself, anti-competitive. People seem to forget that a 'market' does not limit itself to one's own phones. When this is taken to court, the argument will be taken, rightfully, that there are NON-APPLE PHONES ON THE MARKET.

    Apple may be assholes who don't let you benefit from non-Apple approved content, yes, but in that respect the original NES could be considered a monopoly because it couldn't play ATARI games. Or the PS4 is a monopoly because it don't let you play XBox 1 Disks/games. But that isn't how it works. This is different software covering the same market - the Mobile market. Making it harder to enter their market isn't anti-trust, nor is it a monopoly. They do not force you to "Apple or Bust".

    In any and all approaches legally, while it is SCUMMY, it is NOT illegal or monopolistic.

    You realize Epic is underneath Tencent, which is literally attempting to form a monopoly of games by buying majority stockholdership of countless countries game development studios, or at least enough to have a major say in the control of the companies, right? Tencent is the literal monopoly, and Epic is one of their puppets that they own 40% of. If you honestly think that there isn't 11% of the remaining 60% (that's 18% of the remnants btw, not even a majority) who will agree with Tencent in MOST scenarios, then you don't know how stupid people can be.

    I said it before: while neither are 'good', what Apple is doing is NOT AGAINST CURRENT LAW, and all aspects of current law clearly establish this.

    When this is taken to court, they are not going to rewrite law to make people or even Epic feel better about their views. They are going to be enforcing the law based on the current written law, which is, as I've stated, a fairly OPEN-SHUT CASE in favor of Apple. The only way this goes in Epic's favor is a corrupt judge.

    Laws need to be changed before anything Apple does (beyond their Right-To-Repair arguments) is strictly against the law (and even then, Right to Repair laws need to be rewritten slightly just because of how Apple handles their "Right to Repair" approaches.
     
    Last edited by VartioArtel, Aug 14, 2020
  12. Dimensional

    Dimensional GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    The analogy has a flaw.

    If there was only 1 franchise of stores in the world, would that be considered a monopoly? The one company owns all the stores in the world, and they force everyone to buy from them or go through them for sales. That's what's happening with Apple and their iOS devices. They are forcing people to only buy through their store, and will not allow any 'competition' unless they get a cut of it. There were companies that tried to do that in the past, and even Microsoft attempted that back in the early days of the Internet, trying to grab control and be the sole provider of computers within a geographic region. They got in serious trouble for that, so they had to branch out and stop stifling competing stores. Apple is doing that in a digital market. They can claim they are doing it to ensure the integrity of all of their apps, but that doesn't mean they are allowed to break Antitrust Laws.

    That is a good point, that there are other devices, but again these are different methods of markets. Apple is controlling what goes through their method of market with an iron will, while the others have more freedom, to some extend. Android you can install from other sources besides just Google Play, PC you have Steam and MS Store and other places. But Apple iOS? You don't have any options. It's either Apple or nothing. Comparing Apple's App Store to Android's various methods of App installation is essentially comparing Apples to Oranges and peaches and pears and grapes. They both have similar features, but are not the identical enough to be considered the exact same.

    Now at the end of the day the question outside of AntiTrust questions is how will this affect Epic and Apple? If this goes on long enough, Apple might find that their millions of iOS owners will go to Android because they can still play Fortnight through there. Will Epic's revenue stream be affected by this? Not as much as it would affect Apple if people aren't willing to have both devices, especially if people can just as easily do stuff on Android as they did on their iOS device. There will be a lot of Apple iFans who will remain dedicated to Apple, even if they lose Fortnight, but it'll still hit Apple harder than Epic.
     
  13. VartioArtel

    VartioArtel GBAtemp Regular
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    You seem to misunderstand a "market" from a "platform".

    What Apple has constitutes as a "platform". To put it in relative terms, think of it like the CONSOLE GAMES MARKET. Each console counts as a 'platform' in the "Console Games Market" (here-in referred to as the CGM).

    What they are doing is, within their platform, they are establishing what can be hosted tightly. This would be akin to Playstation refusing certain games/developers.


    Using my earlier example, the CGM isn't much different. No console can really install from other sources. No console can use disks (programs) from other consoles. This argument isn't even fallacious when referring to how the Switch don't use disks - the XB1 and PS4 both basically use the same Disks, but what differs is the code on those disks preventing use without their own proprietary consoles.

    Likewise, swap almost anything you said about Apple to Switch.

    Here:

    "Xbox games you can install from other sources besides just the Microsoft store, MS Store and other places. But Switch? You don't have any options. It's either the Nintendo Store or nothing. Comparing Nintendo's Store to X-Box's various methods of App installation is essentially comparing Apples to Oranges and peaches and pears and grapes. They both have similar features, but are not the identical enough to be considered the exact same."

    (Remember - Microsoft ATM is supporting Xbox games being PC compatible on launch now, or so I comprehended that news).

    I realize this analogy's not perfect, but it should get the point across to a similar, relatable system we're familiar to.

    If we say that Apple/Google are "Monopolies" or "Anti-Trusts", we would be by proxy claiming all gaming consoles are the same, because of exactly how the markets work. Replace a type of Cell Phone with PC, PS4, XB1, or Switch, and voila, you get the same exact issues of the same programs/games being hosted on different 'consoles'/Phone Types.

    Not as simple as you thought huh?

    If the millions leave Apple for Android, fine. I don't care. But the fact is that what Epic is doing is the true Anti-Trust here. Why? Because they just broke 2 terms of service agreements in one day because it didn't favor them. If that isn't anti-trust, what is, by definition? I expect some extreme issues rising from this.
     
  14. Memoir

    Memoir Hi, I'm Cynical!
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    Their iPad Pro is currently the only tablet that can run Dolphin at 1440p. It's got some power to it.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    That's debatable...

    The question that's lingering on everyone's mind: Do they even have a case?
     
  15. VartioArtel

    VartioArtel GBAtemp Regular
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    Might be a matter of coding, instead of power. Maybe it was easier to optimize to Apple, doesn't mean necessarily it's better. It's a very complex, complicated slope, seeing as computers can have trouble with older emulators and maintaining a steady framerate (when the emulation isn't set to perfectly emulate the lag-flubs of the classic consoles).

    I don't need a magic 8-Ball to tell you the answer's 'no'. They broke a ToS and immediately began to post videos for the sake of antagonizing if not defamation of Apple. That implies malevolent intent which implies bad faith.
     
    Last edited by VartioArtel, Aug 14, 2020
  16. HarvHouHacker

    HarvHouHacker GBAtemp's "Official" Wii Rock Band Hacker
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    Regardless of who's at fault here, I'm glad I don't play Fortnite.
     
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  17. VartioArtel

    VartioArtel GBAtemp Regular
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    Oh I definitely feel bad for the Fortnite crew on mobile. Stuck between rocks and hard places -.-;.
     
  18. Memoir

    Memoir Hi, I'm Cynical!
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    Barring optimization, the 2020 iPad Pro is objectively one of, if not THE strongest tablet on the market. It is quite the feat to see GameCube emulation (which struggles on their phones) running at that resolution without hiccups.
     
  19. Dimensional

    Dimensional GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    I agree with virtually everything you have said, except for the last paragraph. Seriously, you have basically stated something that should have been hit on the head from the very start. Also remember that Platform would include PC, and that was once locked down to only run certain things, think the IBM BIOS for starters, but things changed there too when it was shown how much could be done if unlocked. Now what if they gave a certain open-control on consoles? Allowing home developers to make what they want, with certain restrictions? It's been done before, until they stopped doing it, for example Sony removing OtherOS and getting a Class Action as a result.

    As for the final paragraph, breaking a TOS doesn't equate to breaking AntiTrust. Far from it in fact. Sometimes a TOS and EULA has clauses in it that in fact are illegal, but nobody bothers to challenge it. If people read the EULAs when they installed Epic or Origin on their PCs, they'd notice a few clauses that can easily be interpreted as "All your PC belongs to Us." That interpretation can't be enforced only because it would cause a serious legal headache for all parties involved. If someone breaks a company's TOS or EULA, then yes the company has the right to remove your license or access to their services, but that doesn't mean that someone is trying to break AntiTrust Laws. In this case they aren't trying to take away competition, they are trying to entice it, to expand upon it. Competition keeps prices from being arbitrarily inflated above what they are now, otherwise any company, Apple, Google, Valve, Epic, EA, Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo could charge 100 times more than they do now if they didn't have anyone to compete with, and nobody would have any choice in the matter.
     
  20. CTR640

    CTR640 GBAtemp Fan
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    This is like Trump vs Hillary lol
     
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