U.S. Supreme Court set to overturn Roe v. Wade abortion rights decision

tabzer

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I did explicitly state that I believe the ends do justify the means when it comes to expanding our rights, liberties, and freedoms, and I stick by that. The idea that progress is destined to happen over time no matter what is largely a neoliberal one, and it's total nonsense meant to keep the populace content no matter how blatant the failures of the system become. Authoritarianism comes from the top down, not the bottom up.
Usually it comes from both sides. Someone dons the boots. Do you think it is the "privileged" volunteering?

Progress has been made on a number of counts, but is it in the quality of the people or the quality of the rule?
 

SyphenFreht

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I think you should be focused on the people who create the baby and not on random strangers like me that share no responsibility for their actions.

I only focus on you because you initially quoted and responded to my post. Otherwise, my focus is on letting people make these kinds of decisions in peace, uninhibited by people who have control issues.

You seem to be making excuses for the parents not taking care of their children.

Rape and incest aren't excuses. The fact that you think so implies you have very little regard to women, and people in general.


You stated "if you're willing to commit the act, you should commit to the outcome", yet this only applies to me and not the actual people who created the child?

What. Who said anything about it only applying to you? I think if two people enter into a relationship with the intent on having a child, they should go through with it. However, I still believe they should have the right to abort if needed.

Where's the outrage for the parents not taking care of their child? Why are you focused on random strangers as opposed to the people who are actually responsible for the child? Your priorities are all messed up.

This thread isn't covering the outrage, it's covering the morality regarding abortions. If a couple can't raise a child without putting its life in detriment, why be forced to carry the baby just to have its life wasted anyway? I'd like to prevent a life that's being born into active detriment then to keep forcing births that put kids in volatile homes, an already over crowded adoption system, so on and so forth. I'm for freedom of choice, not forced bodily regulation.
 

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If not for so many people believing the same as I do, the French and American revolutions never would've occured. If not for the riots following George Floyd's murder, Chauvin never would've been held accountable at all. If not for the Stonewall riots, gay people would never have become an accepted part of society in any capacity. The history of progress is also a history of righteous violence. Does it need to be that way always? Hopefully not, but it's currently the language that those in power seem to understand best.

Yes, make excuses and glorify the thousands of violent riots yet lambast a single one when it happens to come from the other side. Makes perfect sense.

This thread isn't covering the outrage, it's covering the morality regarding abortions. If a couple can't raise a child without putting its life in detriment, why be forced to carry the baby just to have its life wasted anyway? I'd like to prevent a life that's being born into active detriment then to keep forcing births that put kids in volatile homes, an already over crowded adoption system, so on and so forth. I'm for freedom of choice, not forced bodily regulation.

You may think those types of lives are worthless, but they aren't. You're making excuses for murdering babies just because they might not have what you consider an ideal upbringing. If what the parents are doing is so wrong then why not focus on the parents? Why not encourage them to take responsibility for the life they create?
 
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Xzi

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Usually it comes from both sides. Someone dons the boots.
Correct, and I'm talking about sending a message to the people who don the boots, not necessarily overthrowing them except perhaps as a last resort.

Do you think it is the "privileged" volunteering?
Of course not, the priviledged never want to rebel against a system that granted them their privilege in the first place, even if it's an objectively reprehensible one.

Progress has been made on a number of counts, but is it in the quality of the people or the quality of the rule?
Government needs reminding from time to time that they are servants of the people, not the other way around. Based on the bill currently making its way through Congress, SCOTUS justices believe their enumerated rights to privacy should be greater than those for the rest of the American populace, and that's total horse shit.
 

Xzi

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Yes, make excuses and glorify the thousands of violent riots yet lambast a single one when it happens to come from the other side. Makes perfect sense.
Yes, yes it does. Why? Because one side is fighting for justice and expanded rights, while the other is fighting for oligarchy, dictatorship, and a total abolition of all rights for everyone except the "chosen few." As dark as American history is, it would've been at least ten times worse had the South won the Civil War.
 

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Yes, yes it does. Why? Because one side is fighting for justice and expanded rights, while the other is fighting for oligarchy, dictatorship, and a total abolition of all rights for everyone except the "chosen few." As dark as American history is, it would've been at least ten times worse had the South won the Civil War.

Except your insurrection accusations are complete horse shit. All that happened was a few hundred people out of a couple hundred thousand decided to riot. There was no plan of attack, no coordination. It was just a bunch of pissed off conservatives that decided to ransack the capital building. Trump never instructed any of them to riot and after the riots started he told them to stop and go home, which they did. Your claims of an insurrection are just more bullshit lies, but at least you make yourself clear that you support violence to get your way and you just look stupid attacking a single riot when you glorify thousands of them.
 

Xzi

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Except your insurrection accusations are complete horse shit. All that happened was a few hundred people out of a couple hundred thousand decided to riot. There was no plan of attack, no coordination. It was just a bunch of pissed off conservatives that decided to ransack the capital building. Trump never instructed any of them to riot and after the riots started he told them to stop and go home, which they did. Your claims of an insurrection are just more bullshit lies, but at least you make yourself clear that you support violence to get your way and you just look stupid attacking a single riot when you glorify thousands of them.
I didn't even mention the failed attempt at an insurrection. I was talking about the ideology of fascists, authoritarians, and oligarchs in general. That said, there's no denying that a significant portion of the Republican party would install Donald Trump as dictator if they could. They've made it very clear that democracy no longer interests them, and that hurting the "other" is of far higher priority than improving their own lives in any capacity.
 
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Dr_Faustus

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I was making a point. I know no one in their right mind would actually contact her. However, she clearly states that she lost her "baby" and according to Liberals it wasn't a baby. She must be confused about that, eh?
You do realize that not all celebrities are liberal right? Especially ones who were born in the deep south. Of course she would have her own thoughts on the matter, especially since it was something she was planning to have. That said if you want to have your argument based on someone who had been in and out of mental instability so much that her father had taken Conservatorship of her for many years and even forced her to get an IUD against her wishes, which may have been the cause of the miscarriage since those tend to have complications with internal damage and infertility issues during implantation and removal.

But hey, what am I saying, you probably would want women to be downgraded to being like Britney Spears and just be stripped of their freedoms for most of their life.
That's easy. Life is precious, abortions should not take place. However, the financial responsibility lies on the people who created the baby. Not random strangers. You're bitching because people like me don't want to pay for dead beat parents. You're basically saying it's okay for the parents to not feed or cloth their children and it should be my responsibility to do so when I had nothing to do with creating their child. Yeah, nope. I'm not supporting dead beat trash by making excuses for their actions or by voting to give them part of my income.
Then don't take part in the effort to preserve life when you do not want to support life. When you want to defend life up to the point when it is born and then drop any and all care about it afterwards, you are showing exactly the fulcrum of why the Pro-Life movement is flawed. You only care about its existence until its actually born, in which case its no longer your problem to care anymore. You might as well be a goddamn slacktivist and more so a hypocrite because when those who will need help to support that life after its born you nor anyone of your movement will want to lift a finger. Its not about preserving life, its about your religious driven belief that makes you do this shit. Its about pushing your belief onto others so much that it could destroy their lives and the life that you helped force into this world that will not get any help and will suffer because of it. You and the pro-lifers who believe this is the right thing to do and feel this way are absolute monsters and should have no right to have any influence on anyone or their choices in life.

People like you talk about the whereabouts of the soul and protecting all forms of life, but when it comes down to it to make a statement as such and believe it proves that some people simply do not have a soul.

You may think those types of lives are worthless, but they aren't. You're making excuses for murdering babies just because they might not have what you consider an ideal upbringing. If what the parents are doing is so wrong then why not focus on the parents? Why not encourage them to take responsibility for the life they create?
If they cannot take care of it then it is not even an issue of declaration. To make it a problem after the case is what the whole argument is supposed to be about preventing. If you run someone over who was crossing the street do you take any responsibility because you did not see them or do you simply brush it off and say "well maybe they should not have crossed the street when I was driving." Its a flawed concept that does not fit in the very nature of our reality. Shit happens and there are ways to handle or take care of the situation from getting worse. To simply assume otherwise or brush it off as not a big problem to solve because it does not affect you directly is absolutely heartless and just shows how disconnected you are from humanity you can get.

"Oh there is poverty in the world and people can't afford housing and care? Well why can't they just get more money then?! Just sounds like they are being lazy to me.." <-Shit like this, that kind of mentality is poison to society. When you assume the problems of the world can be simply solved by "stop being lazy and step up" you are completely ignoring the actual problems in the world because you set everything on a base level of yourself and your very fortunate life. Congrats, pat yourself on the back for getting so far in your life and being able to survive. But don't go assuming everyone is born with the same advantages you had growing up. This is the very definition of the "privileged" mindset.

Again, if you care so much then step up and be the help for those that are "waiting to be born without the help they need". Otherwise shut the hell up about being Pro-Life and what people should do because you clearly are not helping any life at all with your shit.
 

JonhathonBaxster

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You do realize that not all celebrities are liberal right? Especially ones who were born in the deep south. Of course she would have her own thoughts on the matter, especially since it was something she was planning to have. That said if you want to have your argument based on someone who had been in and out of mental instability so much that her father had taken Conservatorship of her for many years and even forced her to get an IUD against her wishes, which may have been the cause of the miscarriage since those tend to have complications with internal damage and infertility issues during implantation and removal.

But hey, what am I saying, you probably would want women to be downgraded to being like Britney Spears and just be stripped of their freedoms for most of their life.

Then don't take part in the effort to preserve life when you do not want to support life. When you want to defend life up to the point when it is born and then drop any and all care about it afterwards, you are showing exactly the fulcrum of why the Pro-Life movement is flawed. You only care about its existence until its actually born, in which case its no longer your problem to care anymore. You might as well be a goddamn slacktivist and more so a hypocrite because when those who will need help to support that life after its born you nor anyone of your movement will want to lift a finger. Its not about preserving life, its about your religious driven belief that makes you do this shit. Its about pushing your belief onto others so much that it could destroy their lives and the life that you helped force into this world that will not get any help and will suffer because of it. You and the pro-lifers who believe this is the right thing to do and feel this way are absolute monsters and should have no right to have any influence on anyone or their choices in life.

People like you talk about the whereabouts of the soul and protecting all forms of life, but when it comes down to it to make a statement as such and believe it proves that some people simply do not have a soul.


If they cannot take care of it then it is not even an issue of declaration. To make it a problem after the case is what the whole argument is supposed to be about preventing. If you run someone over who was crossing the street do you take any responsibility because you did not see them or do you simply brush it off and say "well maybe they should not have crossed the street when I was driving." Its a flawed concept that does not fit in the very nature of our reality. Shit happens and there are ways to handle or take care of the situation from getting worse. To simply assume otherwise or brush it off as not a big problem to solve because it does not affect you directly is absolutely heartless and just shows how disconnected you are from humanity you can get.

"Oh there is poverty in the world and people can't afford housing and care? Well why can't they just get more money then?! Just sounds like they are being lazy to me.." <-Shit like this, that kind of mentality is poison to society. When you assume the problems of the world can be simply solved by "stop being lazy and step up" you are completely ignoring the actual problems in the world because you set everything on a base level of yourself and your very fortunate life. Congrats, pat yourself on the back for getting so far in your life and being able to survive. But don't go assuming everyone is born with the same advantages you had growing up. This is the very definition of the "privileged" mindset.

Again, if you care so much then step up and be the help for those that are "waiting to be born without the help they need". Otherwise shut the hell up about being Pro-Life and what people should do because you clearly are not helping any life at all with your shit.

Raising other peoples children is not my responsibility. Abortion is murder.
 
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Xzi

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Raising other peoples children is not my responsibility. Abortion is murder.
Playing devil's advocate here and assuming it's true that abortion is murder, at least it's murder that you yourself had no part in. If you're advocating for a forced birth policy which causes more children to starve to death or die from neglect, then that blood is at least partially on your hands.
 

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Playing devil's advocate here and assuming it's true that abortion is murder, at least it's murder that you yourself had no part in. If you're advocating for a forced birth policy which causes more children to starve to death or die from neglect, then that blood is at least partially on your hands.

No one should starve to death. What the hell is wrong with their parents? Shouldn't someone be addressing the fact its the parents job to raise their kids and not some random stranger that has nothing to do with the situation?

I agree, America would have been 10 times as dark if the DEMOCRATS ran it.

(this is a true fact, democrats loved slaves and jim crow, and seceeded during jim crow)

The normal programmed response from the democrats is that both parties switched sides, which is utter horseshit. All of the republicans didn't suddenly turn into democrats over night like they want you to believe, that's a lie. The republican party did change positions on some topics, but they are the ones who fought a war to in part free the slaves against the democrats. The same democrats that created the KKK as a way to intimidate republicans and blacks and try to stop them from voting. Yes, and the same democrats that created the jim crowe laws and the same democrats that constantly bring up the race of other people in their news and discussions. They also accuse anyone that disagrees with them of being racist simply for disagreeing with them, regardless if the subject has to do with race or not. The republicans didn't suddenly all turn into racists after the war. What they want you to believe and what they tell you is all based on lies. So watch out, it's their normal programmed response to try to avoid taking responsibility for their actions (it seems there's a lot of that coming from the democrats).
 
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SyphenFreht

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You may think those types of lives are worthless, but they aren't.

In order for a life to be worth something, it needs to have value. If the parents don't value it, and society will only value it once it contributes to society (which it will have an exponentially harder time to do so with terrible parents), then at what point does it actually have value beyond leverage for control?

You're making excuses for murdering babies just because they might not have what you consider an ideal upbringing.

No, I'm saying people should be in charge of their body, regarding pregnancy and possible abortion.

If what the parents are doing is so wrong then why not focus on the parents? Why not encourage them to take responsibility for the life they create?

Isn't that what an abortion is? Taking responsibility for their actions? You make it sound like having a child should be a punishment, when in fact if life was so precious, every possible facet of choice should be considered in regards to raising said child. But how will you encourage a new teen parent who recently lost their income due to covid, for example? You've already stated you shouldn't have to help bear the financial responsibility, so how will you help encourage responsibility?

And yes, I know rape and incest are small percentages. And ectopic pregnancies and pre-eclampsia. And sudden financial and health hardship. So on and etc. But all these 1 and 2 percents add up quick, and far outweigh the amount of people having abortions just because. If you're so worried about precious life, it needs to be done for those currently living before those being born into an already broken society.
 

SyphenFreht

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No one should starve to death. What the hell is wrong with their parents? Shouldn't someone be addressing the fact its the parents job to raise their kids and not some random stranger that has nothing to do with the situation?

You're right, no one should. But if some college kids rape a homeless girl and get her pregnant, you're saying that baby should be born to the streets and left to die because it's no longer your interest now that it's been born? You advocate forced birth and then completely absolve yourself of interest afterward?

Abortion might be murder, but you're outright declaring gender control should be government enforced. Way to pick the lesser of two evils, huh?

You keep pushing the narrative that the parents should try harder, but not off your dime. Where should they go if they financial help until that first check clears? It shouldn't be anyone else's responsibility, right?


I agree, America would have been 10 times as dark if the DEMOCRATS ran it.

(this is a true fact, democrats loved slaves and jim crow, and seceeded during jim crow)

You're absolutely correct. You did forget, however, to include that once the democratic party starting evolving to what it is today, the racist democrats left to form what came to be today's Republican party, and still hold many of the same values those same racist democrats originally had. It's almost like, to some extent, both political parties had their inception based on racist roots. It's a shame it's more prominent in the modern republican party.

The normal programmed response from the democrats is that both parties switched sides, which is utter horseshit. All of the republicans didn't suddenly turn into democrats over night like they want you to believe, that's a lie. The republican party did change positions on some topics, but they are the ones who fought a war to in part free the slaves against the democrats. The same democrats that created the KKK as a way to intimidate republicans and blacks and try to stop them from voting. Yes, and the same democrats that created the jim crowe laws and the same democrats that constantly bring up the race of other people in their news and discussions. They also accuse anyone that disagrees with them of being racist simply for disagreeing with them, regardless if the subject has to do with race or not. The republicans didn't suddenly all turn into racists after the war. What they want you to believe and what they tell you is all based on lies. So watch out, it's their normal programmed response to try to avoid taking responsibility for their actions (it seems there's a lot of that coming from the democrats).

"Republicans might be bad but Democrats did it first!"
 
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JonhathonBaxster

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In order for a life to be worth something, it needs to have value. If the parents don't value it, and society will only value it once it contributes to society (which it will have an exponentially harder time to do so with terrible parents), then at what point does it actually have value beyond leverage for control?

Just because you don't see the value in human life unless it meets your criteria doesn't mean that's how everyone thinks or should think.

No, I'm saying people should be in charge of their body, regarding pregnancy and possible abortion.

I agree, I don't think the government should be making abortion legal or illegal. It just shouldn't be happening. We don't need to kill babies because having them would be a simple inconvenience.

Isn't that what an abortion is? Taking responsibility for their actions? You make it sound like having a child should be a punishment, when in fact if life was so precious, every possible facet of choice should be considered in regards to raising said child. But how will you encourage a new teen parent who recently lost their income due to covid, for example? You've already stated you shouldn't have to help bear the financial responsibility, so how will you help encourage responsibility?

No, an abortion is skirting their responsibility, which the democrats seem to be aces at. They want to act and take no responsibility for their actions, because it makes them feel good or having to raise a child isn't what they wanted. Let's all kill the babies we create just because we don't want them. That's all I see coming from the pro-choice side.

And yes, I know rape and incest are small percentages. And ectopic pregnancies and pre-eclampsia. And sudden financial and health hardship. So on and etc. But all these 1 and 2 percents add up quick, and far outweigh the amount of people having abortions just because. If you're so worried about precious life, it needs to be done for those currently living before those being born into an already broken society.

The mother and father generally have 9 months to sort shit out before the baby comes into the world. All I see is you making excuses for shitty parents. You're not focused on the problem, which the problem is shitty parents that don't want to take responsibility for their actions. Why not put the focus on the people who decided to make a child? Why should it be my problem that they acted irresponsibly? What the hell are you thinking by telling me I need to take care of other peoples children? What's wrong with you?

You're absolutely correct. You did forget, however, to include that once the democratic party starting evolving to what it is today, the racist democrats left to form what came to be today's Republican party, and still hold many of the same values those same racist democrats originally had. It's almost like, to some extent, both political parties had their inception based on racist roots. It's a shame it's more prominent in the modern republican party.

All lies. Every single person in the Republican party didn't simply become racist over night because a few democratic senators realized they were in the wrong party and changed sides. By changing sides they rejected the democrats and everything they stood for. Your side trying to manipulate the issue to cover your asses because your party has a racist history is not working and never will work. Not at least while there are people like me that see through your lies.
 
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Xzi

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I agree, America would have been 10 times as dark if the DEMOCRATS ran it.

(this is a true fact, democrats loved slaves and jim crow, and seceeded during jim crow)
No shit Sherlock, the parties completely switched platforms sometime in the late 60s, early 70s. Republicans love to try to claim Lincoln for their own, yet they're the only political affiliation who still fly the confederate flag. Now, if you called Democrats controlled opposition, that I would agree with. They're center-right, while Republicans are far-right. Neither party wants to see the working populace gain any ground from the left, which is why it took massive numbers of people protesting in favor of Communism just to get the New Deal passed.

No one should starve to death. What the hell is wrong with their parents? Shouldn't someone be addressing the fact its the parents job to raise their kids and not some random stranger that has nothing to do with the situation?
See, you don't get to play dumb here. It's a forced birth policy in a system that you know can't support it. Most of those kids will be given up for adoption, and few will find happy, loving families willing to adopt them, because almost 70% of Americans already live paycheck to paycheck. On top of everything else, there's an infant formula shortage going on right this moment, because the corporations that manufactured it had successfully lobbied to significantly diminish bacteria testing standards. There will be a lot of human suffering as a direct result of such a policy in the states that have it, so I'd think twice about advocating for it.
 

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Just because you don't see the value in human life unless it meets your criteria doesn't mean that's how everyone thinks or should think.

Except that's exactly how value works in terms of life. My criteria are just different than yours. Actually, my criteria probably aren't too different from yours, but it's hard to be objective when the society you live in clearly doesn't value any human life outside what it can gain from it.

I agree, I don't think the government should be making abortion legal or illegal. It just shouldn't be happening. We don't need to kill babies because having them would be a simple inconvenience.

Then maybe we should come together as a society to ensure that everyone has what they need to survive and thrive?

No, an abortion is skirting their responsibility, which the democrats seem to be aces at. They want to act and take no responsibility for their actions, because it makes them feel good or having to raise a child isn't what they wanted. Let's all kill the babies we create just because we don't want them. That's all I see coming from the pro-choice side.

You have no idea how abortions even work, do you? Or why anyone gets them?

The mother and father generally have 9 months to sort shit out before the baby comes into the world. All I see is you making excuses for shitty parents. You're not focused on the problem, which the problem is shitty parents that don't want to take responsibility for their actions. Why not put the focus on the people who decided to make a child? Why should it be my problem that they acted irresponsibly? What the hell are you thinking by telling me I need to take care of other peoples children? What's wrong with you?

You seem to be completely ignorant to any hardship any person could possibly have. Tell me, what do you think should happen if a woman can't have an abortion? What next?

All lies. Every single person in the Republican party didn't simply become racist over night because a few democratic senators realized they were in the wrong party and changed sides. By changing sides they rejected the democrats and everything they stood for. Your side trying to manipulate the issue to cover your asses because your party has a racist history is not working and never will work. Not at least while there are people like me that see through your lies.

Ho boy, you weren't good in history, were you? Back in the days of racism, almost everyone was racist. Democrats, Republicans, Whigs, f*cking everyone. The democrats of today acknowledge their racist history, and try to make amends for it. Republicans just want to skirt the blame onto someone else because they're embarrassed. I mean, that's just absurd, skirting responsibility like that. Why can't they just claim responsibility for what they did instead of making everyone else pay for it?
 
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Dr_Faustus

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No one should starve to death. What the hell is wrong with their parents? Shouldn't someone be addressing the fact its the parents job to raise their kids and not some random stranger that has nothing to do with the situation?

Let's do some math shall we?

"Based on the most recent data from the Consumer Expenditures Survey, in 2015, a family will spend approximately $12,980 annually per child in a middle-income ($59,200-$107,400), two-child, married-couple family. Middle-income, married-couple parents of a child born in 2015 may expect to spend $233,610 ($284,570 if projected inflation costs are factored in*) for food, shelter, and other necessities to raise a child through age 17. This does not include the cost of a college education."
Source


The majority of Minimum Wage in most states is $7.25 (In 20 States no less!)
Source

"The mean or average monthly mortgage payment for U.S. homeowners is $1,487, according to the latest American Housing Survey from the U.S. Census Bureau. The Census also reports that the median monthly mortgage payment for U.S. homeowners is $1,200. That’s up slightly from the last study when the median monthly payment was $1,100."
Source

So lets see here, 7.25 x a 40 hour week equals $290, x 4 is $1,160 (and that does not of course count taxes being taken out each check!) Which means on a per month your single income is barely a grand in most states. Its hardly enough to cover most rent or mortgages not to mention utilities as well. We did not even factor in healthcare, food, gas, and anyone else besides one person. In a better situation of 2 people the amount doubles to $2,320 a month, which will cover for much more but will not be able to support much if you are having a child. Especially since the average from more than 5 years ago would be around $1,080 to take care of a child. This last bit being from 5 years ago does not factor in the inflation and current issues that have risen over the pandemic period coming and passing as well.

$2,320 - $1,200 - $1,080 = $40 remaining, again not factoring in taxes, utilities, healthcare, food, gas, etc.

This is not a sustainable way to live or have a family with, and again that is if this was a couple. If this was a single woman it would be essentially impossible for her to raise a child on her own with that income. That said this is an unfortunately common scenario which is why financial stability in raising kids is such a big fucking deal. Even if you get government kickbacks and freebees it will not last forever and you may not even get approved for them as falling between the cracks of the system is way more common than you think.

Hell I did not even touch on the fact that what is the parent(s) supposed to do when they reach a point of pregnancy that they might not be able to work for awhile, what about post birth? How will they be able to watch over the baby and care for it when both people will need to work to just keep a roof over their head and food on the table? Most places do not offer maternal leave or even pay for that period so you are even more so screwed and will likely be laid off during this leave since they cannot wait for you to come back to work. This is all common and accepted fact for most low income employment opportunities.

Simply said its not as simple of a problem as "its all on the parents to figure it out and do their job" as you may think it is. That is if there are even two parents involved in this situation. You assume far too much about how you think this world works..
 

JonhathonBaxster

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Ho boy, you weren't good in history, were you? Back in the days of racism, almost everyone was racist. Democrats, Republicans, Whigs, f*cking everyone. The democrats of today acknowledge their racist history, and try to make amends for it. Republicans just want to skirt the blame onto someone else because they're embarrassed. I mean, that's just absurd, skirting responsibility like that. Why can't they just claim responsibility for what they did instead of making everyone else pay for it?

My history knowledge is fine, which is why I know that the entire party swap crap is complete and utter bullshit.

Democrats haven't changed much since they fought a war to keep their black slaves, created the KKK and the came up with the Jim Crowe laws.

The party swap nonsense is just a way the Democrats are skirting responsibility. You say they take responsibility for their racist past? Yeah, that's why they need an elaborate lie to cover their assess when its brought up, right?

Let's do some math shall we?

"Based on the most recent data from the Consumer Expenditures Survey, in 2015, a family will spend approximately $12,980 annually per child in a middle-income ($59,200-$107,400), two-child, married-couple family. Middle-income, married-couple parents of a child born in 2015 may expect to spend $233,610 ($284,570 if projected inflation costs are factored in*) for food, shelter, and other necessities to raise a child through age 17. This does not include the cost of a college education."
Source


The majority of Minimum Wage in most states is $7.25 (In 20 States no less!)
Source

"The mean or average monthly mortgage payment for U.S. homeowners is $1,487, according to the latest American Housing Survey from the U.S. Census Bureau. The Census also reports that the median monthly mortgage payment for U.S. homeowners is $1,200. That’s up slightly from the last study when the median monthly payment was $1,100."
Source

So lets see here, 7.25 x a 40 hour week equals $290, x 4 is $1,160 (and that does not of course count taxes being taken out each check!) Which means on a per month your single income is barely a grand in most states. Its hardly enough to cover most rent or mortgages not to mention utilities as well. We did not even factor in healthcare, food, gas, and anyone else besides one person. In a better situation of 2 people the amount doubles to $2,320 a month, which will cover for much more but will not be able to support much if you are having a child. Especially since the average from more than 5 years ago would be around $1,080 to take care of a child. This last bit being from 5 years ago does not factor in the inflation and current issues that have risen over the pandemic period coming and passing as well.

$2,320 - $1,200 - $1,080 = $40 remaining, again not factoring in taxes, utilities, healthcare, food, gas, etc.

This is not a sustainable way to live or have a family with, and again that is if this was a couple. If this was a single woman it would be essentially impossible for her to raise a child on her own with that income. That said this is an unfortunately common scenario which is why financial stability in raising kids is such a big fucking deal. Even if you get government kickbacks and freebees it will not last forever and you may not even get approved for them as falling between the cracks of the system is way more common than you think.

Hell I did not even touch on the fact that what is the parent(s) supposed to do when they reach a point of pregnancy that they might not be able to work for awhile, what about post birth? How will they be able to watch over the baby and care for it when both people will need to work to just keep a roof over their head and food on the table? Most places do not offer maternal leave or even pay for that period so you are even more so screwed and will likely be laid off during this leave since they cannot wait for you to come back to work. This is all common and accepted fact for most low income employment opportunities.

Simply said its not as simple of a problem as "its all on the parents to figure it out and do their job" as you may think it is. That is if there are even two parents involved in this situation. You assume far too much about how you think this world works..

I'm not assuming anything. Your example is not the norm.

Let's see ...

1) Don't work a minimum wage job.

2) Don't get pregnant until you are able to afford the child.

3) If you do get pregnant for any reason you have 9 months to find a job that can cover the bills.

4) Make sure the father is also working.

5) Take advantage of the low cost services and free support already established for low income people.

It's not rocket science. It's actually pretty easy to take responsibility for the life you create you just actually have to want to do it. Shitty people bring life into this world and then abandon it or murder it. I'm not a shitty person, however the parents you're defending are utter trash. I'm not going to focus on telling strangers they need to pay the way for other peoples kids when its the responsibility of the parents to do so. If anything I'll focus on the deadbeats that refuse to work to take care of the life they brought into this world.
 
Last edited by JonhathonBaxster,
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