Homebrew Tying to understand: 3dsx vs cia files help

[GerbilSwimmingPool]

When should we install cia files and when should we use 3dsx files? What are the pros and cons to using both of these containers? I'm having issues answering these questions.

3dsx: Use with homebrew software ONLY, never go online
cia: for commercial games ONLY, online:okay, data sent to n!ntendo

3dsx
Pros: Doesn't install, data isn't sent to n!ntendo
Cons: Doesn't install: need HBLauncher to run, no console icon, game header=headaches

cia
Pros: console icon, game header:okay, online accessible
Cons: Can't install HB software, HB can't go online:data sent out

The above is most likely incorrect and I'm confused. If we are trying our hardest to dodge the banwaves by NOT going online with HB software, disabling friend status, disabling sys info, and NOT hacking/cheating online, then I don't know how to answer following questions.

-Using ftpd online puts us at "higher" risk, because we are using a HB software online. However, 3dsx/HBL doesn't send out games/application that are currently being ran?
-All HB software should be ran through HBL, but then why does 3ds.guides install all HB software through cia? Checkpoints, Anemone, HBL, LumaUpdater, and FBI?
-If the above is true... Would it still be possible to run HBL > FBI and then install cia files?
-HBL must be installed through... cia? But then it's data is being logged
-Then should we delete Checkpoints, Anemone, LumaUpdater, & FBI and use them from HBL?
-Similar question, why are we encourage to instal ntr cfw through cia and not 3dsx files?

Thanks for reading and helping me clear this up.

 

[MattKimura]

If you're just trying to play it safe, setup Rosalina to have Download Play boot up homebrew launcher. From there, launch all your .3dsx homebrew apps. There's .3dsx version of pretty much every homebrew app. Then you wont have any cia homebrew apps on your home menu. Any cia homebrew app is considered "unauthorized software"

 

[The Real Jdbye]

When should we install cia files and when should we use 3dsx files? What are the pros and cons to using both of these containers? I'm having issues answering these questions.

3dsx: Use with homebrew software ONLY, never go online
cia: for commercial games ONLY, online:okay, data sent to n!ntendo

3dsx
Pros: Doesn't install, data isn't sent to n!ntendo
Cons: Doesn't install: need HBLauncher to run, no console icon, game header=headaches

cia
Pros: console icon, game header:okay, online accessible
Cons: Can't install HB software, HB can't go online:data sent out

The above is most likely incorrect and I'm confused. If we are trying our hardest to dodge the banwaves by NOT going online with HB software, disabling friend status, disabling sys info, and NOT hacking/cheating online, then I don't know how to answer following questions.

-Using ftpd online puts us at "higher" risk, because we are using a HB software online. However, 3dsx/HBL doesn't send out games/application that are currently being ran?
-All HB software should be ran through HBL, but then why does 3ds.guides install all HB software through cia? Checkpoints, Anemone, HBL, LumaUpdater, and FBI?
-If the above is true... Would it still be possible to run HBL > FBI and then install cia files?
-HBL must be installed through... cia? But then it's data is being logged
-Then should we delete Checkpoints, Anemone, LumaUpdater, & FBI and use them from HBL?
-Similar question, why are we encourage to instal ntr cfw through cia and not 3dsx files?

Thanks for reading and helping me clear this up.

HBL is only safer IF it's ran through a legit title like Download Play, or one of the exploit games, because Nintendo only sees you as using Download Play.
I guess preventing bans isn't really the focus of 3ds.guide so he hasn't bothered to change it to use HBL only for homebrew, as CIAs are simpler for the average user, plus, it's not 100% certain whether using HBL instead actually does anything to prevent bans, it's just an educated guess based on what we know about the data sent to Nintendo.
HBL doesn't need to be installed if doing it through the Rosalina method (which is the only "safe" way of doing it as using hblauncher_loader will still tell Nintendo that you're running homebrew)
Yes, you should use the .3dsx versions instead if you care about minimizing ban risks.
NTR-CFW only works through CIA because it requires ARM11 kernel access, something .3dsx alone doesn't give you (I believe the permissions can be enabled for all software with a Luma3DS setting though, but not everyone uses Luma so that would limit compatibility). But it doesn't really matter since you can run BootNTR while offline and connect afterwards.

Keep in mind that even if you don't run CIA homebrew and VC injects while online, your last played title will be sent upon connecting if nothing is running. So best run something else (a normal game, built in app etc) before going online.

 

[GerbilSwimmingPool]

@The Real Jdbye @MattKimura
Are these the correct steps for using the rosalina exploit for download play? Just open Download Play > Rosalina > Miscellaneous > "switch to hb title to the current app" > restart Download Play > now Download Play is HBL? Right? How do I switch Download Play back to Download Play? Just restart the 3ds?

I don't understand "HBL doesn't need to be installed" part. Do you mean Rosalina can run the /microsd/3dsx/HBL 3dsx files then or how do I set this part up?

Is there exploit for FBI cia as well? Like Health & Satefy or is that outdated now?

Could I delete Checkpoints, Anemone, & FBI and reinstall them through 3dsx files through Rosalina/Download Play/HBL? None of these cia installations are required by luma3ds or the 3ds.guide? How can I stealthy install LumaUpdate without 3dsx files?

And lastly, how would I run BootNTR/NTR cfw first without sending out data? Stay offline, would I be able to start bootntr/ntr cfw and then load a game, go online, and send that information out instead?

Sadly, I made that mistake when I first loaded cfw and I was going to the cia software while I was online. Most likely my next stop is the banhammer.

 

[MattKimura]

@The Real Jdbye @MattKimura
Are these the correct steps for using the rosalina exploit for download play? Just open Download Play > Rosalina > Miscellaneous > "switch to hb title to the current app" > restart Download Play > now Download Play is HBL? Right? How do I switch Download Play back to Download Play? Just restart the 3ds?

I don't understand "HBL doesn't need to be installed" part. Do you mean Rosalina can run the /microsd/3dsx/HBL 3dsx files then or how do I set this part up?

Is there exploit for FBI cia as well? Like Health & Satefy or is that outdated now?

Could I delete Checkpoints, Anemone, LumaUpdater, & FBI and reinstall them through 3dsx files through Rosalina/Download Play/HBL? None of these cia installations are required by luma3ds or the 3ds.guide?

And lastly, how would I run BootNTR/NTR cfw first without sending out data? Stay offline, would I be able to start bootntr/ntr cfw and then load a game, go online, and send that information out instead?

Sadly, I made that mistake when I first loaded cfw and I was going to the cia software while I was online. Most likely my next stop is the banhammer.

You got the steps right, but you should also choose "Save settings" after setting download play as the hb app. This way you wont have to do this every time. To get download play back, simply delete your luma config in the luma folder. You likely wont ever need download play in the future.

Yup this homebrew launcher boots up homebrew apps from SD:/3ds/NameofApp.3dsx
So all the homebrew apps in .3dsx format go in the 3ds folder (Not the Nintendo 3DS folder)

You can find a .3dsx version of every homebrew app, including checkpoint, anemone3ds, FBI, etc.
You don't "install" them, you just simply copy the file to the 3ds folder.

 

[GerbilSwimmingPool]

You got the steps right, but you should also choose "Save settings" after setting download play as the hb app. This way you wont have to do this every time. To get download play back, simply delete your luma config in the luma folder. You likely wont ever need download play in the future.

Yup this homebrew launcher boots up homebrew apps from SD:/3ds/NameofApp.3dsx
So all the homebrew apps in .3dsx format go in the 3ds folder (Not the Nintendo 3DS folder)

You can find a .3dsx version of every homebrew app, including checkpoint, anemone3ds, FBI, etc.
You don't "install" them, you just simply copy the file to the 3ds folder.

Cool. I'll go through them and reinstall them all. What should I do about the ftpd server on the 3ds? It's a HB app through with 3dsx files, but it needs the world web for that. Do you have any suggestions on how to stay incognito?

Also, would I be able to delete checkpoint & Anemone cia without losing my data and then continue to use them through HBL? If not, couldn't I just backup those folders within the SD card and then replace after deleting the cia installations?

 

[The Real Jdbye]

@The Real Jdbye @MattKimura
Are these the correct steps for using the rosalina exploit for download play? Just open Download Play > Rosalina > Miscellaneous > "switch to hb title to the current app" > restart Download Play > now Download Play is HBL? Right? How do I switch Download Play back to Download Play? Just restart the 3ds?

I don't understand "HBL doesn't need to be installed" part. Do you mean Rosalina can run the /microsd/3dsx/HBL 3dsx files then or how do I set this part up?

Is there exploit for FBI cia as well? Like Health & Satefy or is that outdated now?

Could I delete Checkpoints, Anemone, & FBI and reinstall them through 3dsx files through Rosalina/Download Play/HBL? None of these cia installations are required by luma3ds or the 3ds.guide? How can I stealthy install LumaUpdate without 3dsx files?

And lastly, how would I run BootNTR/NTR cfw first without sending out data? Stay offline, would I be able to start bootntr/ntr cfw and then load a game, go online, and send that information out instead?

Sadly, I made that mistake when I first loaded cfw and I was going to the cia software while I was online. Most likely my next stop is the banhammer.

Yes.

Rosalina just boots the HBL boot.3dsx file, it doesn't need anything else to work.

FBI injected to H&S still works of course, but it's obsolete and it means you can't update FBI easily.

Luma doesn't require anything but the files it comes with (and B9S of course)
Is there not a .3dsx version of Luma Updater?

Yeah, that's the safest way to run BootNTR.

 

[GerbilSwimmingPool]

Yes.

Rosalina just boots the HBL boot.3dsx file, it doesn't need anything else to work.

FBI injected to H&S still works of course, but it's obsolete and it means you can't update FBI easily.

Luma doesn't require anything but the files it comes with (and B9S of course)
Is there not a .3dsx version of Luma Updater?

Yeah, that's the safest way to run BootNTR.

Awesome! I got Anemone, Checkpoint, and FBI running through HBL and I was able to delete the cia installations without losing my data. And I just found out that LumaUpdater's zip file contains a 3dsx file. Woot!

Are you guys taking similar precautions? Or are you doing something else? What are your methods?

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Awesome! I got Anemone, Checkpoint, and FBI running through HBL and I was able to delete the cia installations without losing my data. And I just found out that LumaUpdater's zip file contains a 3dsx file. Woot!

Are you guys taking similar precautions? Or are you doing something else? What are your methods?

I figure I'm probably already flagged, since I've always been running CIA homebrew and I even have FBI set as my favorite title. So I haven't really bothered.
Haven't been banned yet though.

 

[GerbilSwimmingPool]

I figure I'm probably already flagged, since I've always been running CIA homebrew and I even have FBI set as my favorite title. So I haven't really bothered.
Haven't been banned yet though.

I have seen other people in the threads in a similar situation. How long have you been using this 2ds/3ds? Which device do you have? What precautions have you taken? Did you feel like you have ever slipped up even though you haven't been banned yet? Have you ever lost a ds, old or new to a banwave?

 

[The Real Jdbye]

I have seen other people in the threads in a similar situation. How long have you been using this 2ds/3ds? Which device do you have? What precautions have you taken? Did you feel like you have ever slipped up even though you haven't been banned yet? Have you ever lost a ds, old or new to a banwave?

I bought this n3DS when they launched and hacked it as soon as it was possible, then system transferred from my 9.2 o3DS XL which was also hacked.

 

[GerbilSwimmingPool]

Wow! Really? You never lost an old 3ds either? With your n3ds, was it hard updating your system and then updating your cfw or what was available at the time. For example, installing cfw on 11.4.0 and then updating the system to 11.5.0 and then reinstalling your cfw. I saw a few notes on this proceed when i was installing cfw on my 3ds.

 

[MattKimura]

Wow! Really? You never lost an old 3ds either? With your n3ds, was it hard updating your system and then updating your cfw or what was available at the time. For example, installing cfw on 11.4.0 and then updating the system to 11.5.0 and then reinstalling your cfw. I saw a few notes on this proceed when i was installing cfw on my 3ds.

Once you install boot9strap (Custom boot loader) to your 3DS, it remains on your 3DS even after system updates. Nintendo cannot patch Boot9strap, it's unaffected by updates. So that means you'll always be able to load Luma CFW after each update. Boot9strap is what loads up the boot.firm luma payload (Which is Luma CFW).

I'm im in the same boat as the user above, I bought my New 3DS XL on launch day and hacked it since. Never had to re-hack it ever again so its permanent. But of course boot9strap could be uninstalled at will but then why would you ever do so.

You don't have to be that cautious about bans, especially if you're going the .3dsx homebrew route instead of .cia. It's easy enough to unban yourself, there's a thread for that. I haven't been banned, aside from the pokemon ban that happened long ago which was dumb of me. Other than that I haven't been banned out of the blue. Nintendo just wanted to scare people with that may 2017 banwave and you're falling for it. Let loose and enjoy your 3DS. Ask yourself this, how often do you really play online on your 3DS? bans don't disable your 3DS or stop you from playing your games. As I said before, it's more than easy to get a new seed and use that. It'll be like you've never been banned. Bans just aren't frequent enough to even worry about it is what im trying to say.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Wow! Really? You never lost an old 3ds either? With your n3ds, was it hard updating your system and then updating your cfw or what was available at the time. For example, installing cfw on 11.4.0 and then updating the system to 11.5.0 and then reinstalling your cfw. I saw a few notes on this proceed when i was installing cfw on my 3ds.

Sort of. I actually got a copy of Cubic Ninja just to run NTR-CFW on the n3DS so I could do a sysNAND->sysNAND transfer instead of emuNAND->emuNAND (because BootNTR didn't exist at the time and the only way to bypass the update check was with NTR-CFW)
Paid about €20 for Cubic Ninja, prices skyrocketed not long after.
To be fair back when I used the o3DS they hadn't started banning people yet. That all started with the leak of Pokemon S/M. But they probably still have logs of me running homebrew from way back then.

 

[GerbilSwimmingPool]

Once you install boot9strap (Custom boot loader) to your 3DS, it remains on your 3DS even after system updates. Nintendo cannot patch Boot9strap, it's unaffected by updates. So that means you'll always be able to load Luma CFW after each update. Boot9strap is what loads up the boot.firm luma payload (Which is Luma CFW).

I'm im in the same boat as the user above, I bought my New 3DS XL on launch day and hacked it since. Never had to re-hack it ever again so its permanent. But of course boot9strap could be uninstalled at will but then why would you ever do so.

You don't have to be that cautious about bans, especially if you're going the .3dsx homebrew route instead of .cia. It's easy enough to unban yourself, there's a thread for that. I haven't been banned, aside from the pokemon ban that happened long ago which was dumb of me. Other than that I haven't been banned out of the blue. Nintendo just wanted to scare people with that may 2017 banwave and you're falling for it. Let loose and enjoy your 3DS. Ask yourself this, how often do you really play online on your 3DS? bans don't disable your 3DS or stop you from playing your games. As I said before, it's more than easy to get a new seed and use that. It'll be like you've never been banned. Bans just aren't frequent enough to even worry about it is what im trying to say.

I'm really surprise nintendo has never been able to rewrite over b9s/boot loader. This is common issue with custom roms on phones and their bootloaders. That's good to hear that both of you guys weren't affected by the banwaves. I have read so many accounts of people getting banned for doing almost nothing at all.

What was your pokemon ban? Is this kind of ban different than a normal banwave? Did you play usum before it was officially release? I thought I understood how bans with 3dses work, but I was wrong. I was under the impression you couldn't game online and your friend's list was disable, but you would still be able to play games offline.

Sort of. I actually got a copy of Cubic Ninja just to run NTR-CFW on the n3DS so I could do a sysNAND->sysNAND transfer instead of emuNAND->emuNAND (because BootNTR didn't exist at the time and the only way to bypass the update check was with NTR-CFW)
Paid about €20 for Cubic Ninja, prices skyrocketed not long after.
To be fair back when I used the o3DS they hadn't started banning people yet. That all started with the leak of Pokemon S/M. But they probably still have logs of me running homebrew from way back then.

Why did you decide to skip installing cfw on your n3ds and start over from scratch? Weren't you afraid of bricking your new3ds because of some silly incompatibility between the o3ds and the n3ds? Were there only two banwaves? Early leaked copies of S/M and USMS and peopel who played them before their official release?


I will admit, I have restricted myself quite a bit with my cfw'd n3ds, because I wasn't really sure where the limits were with 3dses. Are there any RULES that I must never break with my cfw'd n3ds?

1. Disable sys info
2. Disable friend list game info
3. Don't Hack/cheat online
4. Don't play early releases. [Could I technically play them offline and then switch to another game before going back online?]
5. Don't play modded games. [Could I play modded games offline and then switch to another game?]

That is it, right?

 

[Joom]

I dunno why people keep spreading the misinformation that one will be banned by using CIA homebrew. I use it exclusively because I loathe the HBL, and have never been banned for doing so. Disabling any sort of features doesn't protect you from being banned, either. Just don't be an idiot and cheat/use modded saves (Pokémon) online, and don't play leaked games online.

 

[GerbilSwimmingPool]

I dunno why people keep spreading the misinformation that one will be banned by using CIA homebrew. I use it exclusively because I loathe the HBL, and have never been banned for doing so. Disabling any sort of features doesn't protect you from being banned, either. Just don't be an idiot and cheat/use modded saves (Pokémon) online, and don't play leaked games online.

So, you don't turn off your sys info & buddy game info then? I know, these methods have yet to be proven. Do you play modded games offline before switching to another game before you go back online?

 

[Ryccardo]

I'm really surprise nintendo has never been able to rewrite over b9s/boot loader. This is common issue with custom roms on phones and their bootloaders

They can (with every kernel update, and since 11.3 on every boot - that's why Gateway users who try [and fail to] run 11.3+ sysnand lose the mod)... but almost every CFW updated after the invention of A9LH blocks this, by default or option... except Gateway

 

[Joom]

So, you don't turn off your sys info & buddy game info then? I know, these methods have yet to be proven. Do you play modded games offline before switching to another game before you go back online?

I do not, and the only game I've modded is Smash, which hasn't gotten me banned yet. Unless you're referring to save modding, which I don't do.

 

[Craftyawesome]

...

1. Disable sys info
2. Disable friend list game info
3. Don't Hack/cheat online
4. Don't play early releases. [Could I technically play them offline and then switch to another game before going back online?]
5. Don't play modded games. [Could I play modded games offline and then switch to another game?]

That is it, right?

1: We generally disable that and spotpass downloads because it sends less data and has little disadvantage.
2: We aren't sure it sends less info, but we are trying to be safe. If you want to play with a friend make sure your last played game is real and re-enable it.
3: Don't do this, especially in Pokemon.
4: You aren't supposed to connect to the game servers with it. Just playing it with wifi on should be in the same boat as CIA Homebrew (they should be able to detect it, but it definitely isn't an automatic ban)
5: Modding a game is fine. If you didn't change the title id, it should be undetectable in an offline game. It is also generally fine online if everyone in the lobby has it. People play Mario kart custom tracks in a specified community.