1. WiizNutz

    OP WiizNutz Member
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    ONE

    The Wii has a built in cursor-at-a-distance interface, but playing mouse driven games is a pain, if at all possible.
    No other console can really emulate a mouse, the Wii excells at it - but I can't play Lemmings or Cannon Fodder, even though the Wii easily handles the software emulation.

    Lightgun type emulation is fine !?!?!

    TWO - a HUMUNGOUS MISSED TRICK


    The Wii is, pretty much, the only console with a wide variety of analogue inputs
    Many arcade machines had analog inputs

    If there were a standardised, user editable text format to define how Wii hardware outputs shape emulator inputs, one could:
    Use a balance board to play breakout
    Lean a wiimote to move left and right to move mario, jerk it up to jump
    Roll the wiimote to move the cursor
    Hold it up or down or Whip it to fire
    Roll the nunchuck to move the turret
    Throw the wiimote, in the opposite direction!
    Reverse any input to tease your brain or suit your installation.

    The implications for gamers with different physical abilities are beyond my imagination, but just configuring a balance board as a couple of big buttons could open up a world of possibilities, using hardware that's cheaper than a nice pair of jeans.

    And nearly as available

    In Conclusion

    I'd hope implementing this would open up an exploration of new, fun ways to play old games, users would share cool combinations of games to wii-peculiar inputs, and the multiple emulator flavours of Wii software would implement the protocol for changing settings on the fly, perhaps a graphical interface.

    *Happend
     
    Last edited by WiizNutz, Apr 4, 2021
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  2. WiizNutz

    OP WiizNutz Member
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    Minor addition, but the blue tooth speaker was defined but never implemented - never used in homebrew, but such an obvious vehicle for lo-fi audio samples from emulated games
     
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  3. newo

    newo GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    That would require a large and active community.
     
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  4. WiizNutz

    OP WiizNutz Member
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    QUOTE="newo, post: 9428306, member: 277348"]That would require a large and active community.[/QUOTE]
    It would require a computer engineering graduate with an SDR and the inclination to sort the Bluetooth speaker issue. Perhaps someone else could use their findings to update the Wii homebrew environment with the capability.

    It would require one person, perhaps one of the emulator authors, to decide how to standardise the form and syntax of how the text format would work, and definitely needs one of the emulator authors to implement it
    there, it would need users to play with it, but I'm betting that it would be FUN

    Given the huge potential for shenanigans, to reinterpt the interface for existing software into a fundamentaly differnet experience, but with a low learning curve to being able to play with the outcomes - i would expect that potential to encourage people to pick it up.
    I suppose, yes, it might require a couple of 'power users' to take an interest, but a couple of examples from the coder, bundled with the distribution and there for the user to edit and play with - it could be enough.
    If it picks up, maybe a guide from an early uptaker here, a YouTube video there, and the near universality of the consoles, not to forget the aforementioned possibilities for gamers with different abilities, it could garner some interest. Perhaps enough for another coder to implement the standard in their emulator, or for someone to want to try it who can edit and release the open source.

    If such configuration file was supported by a game browser front end, like wiiflow, users could select from common presets, or custom, when loading.
    Being able to easily invoke it is paramount, but not technically difficult for a game browser to point to a config file when loading a title.
    A gui for the format needs someone to bother, but such a thing might be embeddable within the game selection front end.

    While these things might help disseminate the idea, the attraction is that you will be able to play familiar, favourite titles, in entirely new ways, and that this is something that other consoles simply cannot do.

    As for the mouse emulation, while I do not appreciate the difficulty, it can't be impossible, as there are highly functional lightgun type emulations using the Wii mote pointer. My point is that it is of PARTICULAR INTEREST TO WII USERS, because of the nature of the interface, nothing else has the potential to emulate a mouse except the Wii.
    That is, it is a massive bottleneck to what emulation on the Wii could be, a capacity exclusive to the wii and a reason to have it around.
    *Obviously, a conversation between homebrew authors is more likely to produce a better v1, but it only needs one to do it.
     
    Last edited by WiizNutz, Apr 5, 2021
  5. newo

    newo GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    I have a few questions and assumptions;

    1 - are you that guy?
    2 - homebrew people seem to dislike standards.
    3 - it seems like alot of people are in the business of suggesting interface standards or widespread standardization. where does this need come from? steve jobs? android? school?
    4 - standards seem to create bottlenecks
    5 - what are your current skills? what skills will you have in 5 years?
     
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  6. Tetsuo Shima

    Tetsuo Shima GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    I partially agree on the mouse emulation. It's a missed opportunity with the wiimote, that's for sure. Playing mouse driven games on Dosbox-Wii is a pain, if not even possible. The same can be said for UAE-Wii, mouse emulation is so clunky that's impossible to play a game from start to finish. It's a shame, games like lemmings, incredible machine, all the great RTS and RPG's of the nineties... I suspect these computer emulators to be too heavy for the Wii horsepower.
    ScummVM on the other hand, has a wonderful mouse emulation. Movement and keypresses are very accurate, but in some situations it can be a chore:
    the problem with using the wiimote as a mouse is that while a real mouse stays firmly on a plane surface (your table), the wiimote is suspended in the air, held only by your hand. It's harder to stay perfectly still with the pointer, even if you rest your arm on your knees. Many of the old mouse games required you to click (or worse, double click) on really small surfaces made of a few pixels (think about Ultima VII). Small unintentional movements turn a click into a drag 'n drop movement, ruining your game.
    So, in my opinion, even if Wiimote and mouse are both pointing devices, they're not really the same thing.
     
  7. WiizNutz

    OP WiizNutz Member
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    1a Fuck, no. I'm not an architect, I'm the guy saying 'if we built an aquaduct here, it would give this town a reason to exist'
    In point of fact, I'm saying if we put a short aquaduct in, we get a waterpark that no other town can have, but we can.
    1b Shit, yes. If this became a thing, i would be all over playing with it, thinking on v2, wouldn't you?
    2 I'm concious that standardisation can restrict opportunities for growth, but given the age of the console, when you've come up with something yet to be explored that could be stunted by standardisation, and weigh that against this one opportunity standardisation offers.
    It only needs one dev to do it, and for the format to be transferable. If it is popular, it is inherently then worth doing elsewhere.
    It doesn't require the primary developer of an open source project to do it, just someone skilled enough who can be bothered.
    3 Standardisation nt the point per se, being able to remap the analog outs of the wiimotes to the inputs of an emulator is, but standardisation of a format means only one syntax and form needs to be learned, and the same line of config could be used for consoles of similar capabilities to produce repeatable results across consoles. Again, you have to worry what are losing by standardisation at this pointand compare it to possibilities it opens up.
    4 Again, in 2021, where is this feared restriction going to emerge? I am talking about v1 here, with a view to developing a v2...
    5 I make a mean chilli, does my lack of needlepoint disavow me from remarking that the emporer is naked?

    In five years i would like to pull out a wii to play with my kid, because there is a hilarious way to play galaxian, or something.

    1c OK, as you (newo) are a wii software engineer, familiar with the hardware, how would you do it?
     
    Last edited by WiizNutz, Apr 5, 2021
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  8. WiizNutz

    OP WiizNutz Member
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    To be sure, a wiimote pointer is not the same thing as a ponter, and may have these and other obstructions that need solutions. But the wii at least has at least a fighting chance at getting something usable enough to be fun.

    I always thought it would be brilliant to be able to dynamically zoom in with the nunchuck - would be a massive help with finer resolutions, something that might be feasible with the hardware, or dynamically change the scaling of the change in the wiimote position to the pointer.
    Possibilities ripe for exploration
     
    Last edited by WiizNutz, Apr 5, 2021
  9. newo

    newo GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    5. no, you have all right. carry on.

    1c. I'm more of a hobby programmer that dabbles in wii homebrew. I see it as a chicken vs egg programming rabbit hole. I personally would not do it. I cant even see it. Maybe even my dreams are small.
     
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  10. WiizNutz

    OP WiizNutz Member
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    What am I missing, you're just saying use this axis, or input, ignore this, ignore that, any thing between here wnd here, scale it to this on your old school analoge input, or 'up'
    That's essentially it, right?
    Why the trepidation and awe?
     
    Last edited by WiizNutz, Apr 5, 2021
  11. SaulFabre

    SaulFabre Wii scene/hacking & Wii VC well-known guy
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  12. WiizNutz

    OP WiizNutz Member
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    The Flash to WiiWare games thing has blown me away...
    I never look at the tutorials section these days, but I still check here for content - you should find a way to put something on 'Emulators and homebrew' - are there any open source as2 games - something that comes with a (as2) tutorial, maybe?
    You could legit post that, link to the (wiiware) tutorial in the comments, and invite folks to add their own, without objection...
     
    Last edited by WiizNutz, Apr 16, 2021
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