1. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,016
    Country:
    Laos
    .. followed by Taiwan and Malaysia.

    Build that wa... wait a minute.. ;)

    https://www.dw.com/en/the-real-winners-of-the-us-china-trade-dispute/a-55420269

    Told you not to believe in populist slogans.. ;) Or in pretty much anything that person said.

    And Mexico will build that wall with all the profits we ensured outsourcing american jobs into the country next door would bring - for our business sector pals..

    Next countries to make business in for Trumps friends? India. Probably. :) Kenia. :)

    For great benefit of the financial profitings of the United States..., well, if the public demands that those profits are taxed. So how many of you knew, that this is the economic flow that was established?

    How many of you work in the Malaysia import business...? ;)

    Oh and all the benefits for the poorer classes... Those good vietnam electronics, and shoes. Chinese products dont even compare.. ;) Great again America. rejoice. :)
     
    Last edited by notimp, Oct 30, 2020
    ghjfdtg and LumInvader like this.
  2. LumInvader

    LumInvader GBAtemp Advanced Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    603
    Country:
    United States
    Oh boy, now you've done it.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer
    Reporter

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    31,934
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I am curious about two things.
    1) China has been getting quite expensive for many years now (it is actually quite a big problem inside China where home ownership among the youth, often a prerequisite to a family/relationship, is becoming troubled and that makes the impending population crash that much worse), such that cheap labour actually isn't any more.

    2) How much of that is Chinese companies propping up other businesses in those countries for the same reason as things went to China originally and possibly also as a dodge.

    You could also ponder whether giving China a black eye is worth it.
     
    Seliph likes this.
  4. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,016
    Country:
    Laos
    China is doing risk mitigation in their next five year plan:
    https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2020/10/29/china-unveils-5-year-path-to-becoming-a-tech

    Domestic growth.

    The west is trying to do the colonizing spiel with the next emerging markets available.

    Not sure if I'm oversimplifying. :)
     
    Last edited by notimp, Oct 30, 2020
  5. ghjfdtg

    ghjfdtg GBAtemp Advanced Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2014
    Messages:
    667
    Country:
    Mexico is building the wall free of charge now. The money wall :tpi:
     
  6. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    7,687
    Country:
    Belgium
    I've got to ask the question : so what? :unsure:

    By the very definition, there is at least one foreign country that 'benefited the most' in foreign trade. The rise of Vietnam at the cost of China just says that the trade war had its effect (1). I don't agree with the reason of the conflict (or rather : the complete absence of one being there), but I can't dispute its effectiveness.

    Mexico surprised me a bit until I saw that '2017' part. Since the conflict started in 2018, it had nothing to do with China. Mexico is just the most cost effective trader, I presume.

    Yeah, I know : it's a far cry from the racist rhetoric of the Trump cult, but at the end of the day they don't give a fuck who supplies them with whatever they want and need, as long as it gets there.


    (1) yes, it's possible that China just reroutes part of its trade through Vietnam. That doesn't change the outcome
     
  7. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,016
    Country:
    Laos
    ?
    It says right in there, that this is the result of the trade dispute with china.

    Come again? Whats your fairy tale about "but then I read the 2017 part" again?

    "What does it matter what countries we are trading with, as long as stuff gets there?"

    If you are mainly dealing with countries below your own wage level, as a result production and investment goes into those countries. Also, as you tend to export into those countries as well to reduce the trade imbalance, it allows you to keep your own wage level near the poverty line, in fact it forces you to do so, to be able to manufacture products, that those countries could afford.

    As said in here before, chinas labor costs are ahead of those in Malaysia, Vietnam or Mexico, so the US shifted to the next poorer countries to continue the trade game.

    Meaning, the Trump administration continued the race to the bottom, which allows industry leaders, not to invest, keep the same processes, not innovate, but stretch the value extraction phase of production a little longer by dealing with the next poorer country.

    Also lets stress this again, investment opportunities in those countries are huge as a result of newfound business ventures.

    Provocatively said: You are developing the entire rest of the world, before you are investing in the US.

    Also product quality, at least for a time gets worse for people who have to buy at low pricepoints.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Oct 31, 2020
  8. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    7,687
    Country:
    Belgium
    Yes, I read that part. But I also googled around a bit: The USA / China dispute started (early) 2018. I won't argue that there wasn't rhetoric prior to that, but...erm...we both know Trump, okay? He was already playing the victim of everyone and everything at that point. So when Mexico boomed as the (second?) best trade partner of the US in 2017, it wasn't because of a trade dispute that was still a year in the future.


    I agree 100% on that (more so: I don't think I could've said it better :) ). The thing is...you didn't properly quote me. Summarized, it'd be like this:

    at the end of the day [the Trump cult] don't give a fuck who supplies them with whatever they want and need, as long as it gets there.


    Frankly said, I think the drones who diss average republicans as being "too left" when they criticize their leader will just put a "fake news" label on this news because they can't fathom the actual truth.
     
  9. gregory-samba

    gregory-samba GBAtemp Advanced Fan
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2020
    Messages:
    525
    Country:
    United States
    That shit China produces is over priced junk. You're better off not buying cheap garbage that's been "Made in China".
     
  10. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,016
    Country:
    Laos
    Correct on that Mexico relations were 'about to flurish' because of a leadership change in Mexico that was favorable to US political interests (Mexico actively seeked out opportunities to get into high level economic talks with US interests in an attempt to align the two economies, regardless of prior political history, and they were succesful), a deal was brokered there.

    Which lead to the following rhetoric: https://apnews.com/article/47c5cbca357641128078f485b7250183

    My point is the following. Everyone in the populist movement told voters, that they needed to vote for Trump - if they wanted their manufacturing jobs to remain in the US.

    While in reality, plans already were underway to outsource all manufacturing possible to not only Mexico, but even lower wage countries in the south pacific.

    Reducing imports from china meant, that goods, that already had become 'more expensive' than what the US wanted to pay for them, and that had additional transport cost attached (= not profit that ends up with China), were sourced from cheaper countries, and mexico - entirely ruining the prospects of an 'industrial renewal' in the US. For good. And longterm.

    Instead of investing into production in the US, the administration continued, to drive an investment boom for Mexico. Which is directly in front of your borders, where transport doesnt cost a thing.


    At least, with a different administration, you would have invested in new sectors, or mondernisation - but Trump made SURE, that none of this happened.

    You were lied to royally.

    As always, noone flipping cares about the peasentry.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Nov 1, 2020
    Taleweaver likes this.
  11. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,016
    Country:
    Laos
    So what did the US get out of it?

    Answer: https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/united-states-mexico-canada-agreement

    Translation. Workers stay employed as long as Mexico is bribed/force into buying US cars mainly, and all industrial products for as long as it takes them to catch up to US manufacturing standards, which are subpar (compared to the world standard).

    This is institutionalized corruption. ;) At least all people in the Brexit thread are saying that, when the EU tries to protect the italian shoe industry doing the same.. ;)

    = Structural corruption. ;) Agreements for mexico to have to purchase US cars for the forseeable future, and - mexico agrees to less currency dumping in exchange for more investments and open borders . (Thats mexico getting the better end of the deal.)

    The majority of farmers in the US are highly automated, large acreage businesses, who now have better export markets to dump their products in. No new jobs to be created anywhere. (Productivity can not be increased by increasing manpower.) So basically a gift to rich (large acreage) landowners. (Who were currently producing soy that china _had_ to buy.. ;) Lower transport costs for them, so they get richer.)

    Gift to the tech industry and Hollywood, and the financial services industry. (Partly kidding on Hollywood.. ;) ). Also a play for mexico not to develop too fast. Would be interested in what this entails in more detail.

    Developing mexico. And making some deal to somehow cut in 'small and medium sized enterprises'. Again, would be highly interested in what this entails.



    edit: Here is the chapter on small an medium size enterprises:
    https://ustr.gov/sites/default/file...ext/25_Small_and_Medium-Sized_Enterprises.pdf

    edit: Following opportunities shall be created for small and medium enterprises (SMEs):

    A:
    PR bingo and networking opportunities, as well as knowledge transfer to mexico.

    B:
    PR

    C:
    more financing where needed, and where a businessmodel to produce something mexico needs is underlying (i.e. not 'easier access to credit' just more informed access to credit ;) ) Benefits rich folks, first and foremost. And entrepreneurs.

    And people who payed for lobbying because they get more state contracts. Through SMEs. (More corruption opportunities.. ;) More easy access to tax money for lobbied interests. :) )

    D:
    Drive efficiency gains. Produce even more cheaply in the US, using less labor.

    Haha!!!
     
    Last edited by notimp, Nov 1, 2020
  12. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,016
    Country:
    Laos
    Last edited by notimp, Nov 1, 2020
  13. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,016
    Country:
    Laos
    Detail information: What is 'rules of origin for a car' in the context of a trade deal:

    src: https://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2013/may/tradoc_151237.pdf

    So a better set of those becoming a high ticket item in a trade deal means, it matters more for a car to be identified as 'from one country' for 'preferential tariffs'. Which means - "Agreements for mexico to have to purchase US cars for the forseeable future".
     
  14. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,016
    Country:
    Laos
    https://www.dw.com/en/joe-biden-trump-us-china-trade-war-asia-india/a-55588355

    Please dont ban me for not editing this into my previous posting.

    edit: Short primer on globalization:
     
    Last edited by notimp, Nov 13, 2020
  15. Joom

    Joom  ❤❤❤
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Messages:
    5,891
    Country:
    United States
    China benefitted the most with us pulling out of the TPP. Since the US no longer holds contention over copyright with China, it created a vacuum that they filled. Because of this, China is the most powerful nation in the world now.
     
  16. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,016
    Country:
    Laos
    Could be the case if 'free development' was available to everyone equally.

    As it turns out - it isnt. :)

    There are some industries, where you _need_ USD to buy product/expertise. But lets say you 'hack' expertise. That still means you cant hack markets (that themselves also would need USD, and only have a few venues available to get them, and therefore....).

    So lets say you have expertise (hacked), but you have a hard time getting certain products (resources), and you have a hard time selling certain products.

    Ever heard of Huawei? ;)

    (Now china is turning to internal growth.)
     
    Last edited by notimp, Nov 15, 2020
  17. Joom

    Joom  ❤❤❤
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Messages:
    5,891
    Country:
    United States
  18. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,016
    Country:
    Laos
    No, Huawei is prevented to get access to certain parts they need for certain industries (all chip production has to move inhouse f.e.), and is prevented to do business in certain countries of the western alliance (even rich ones, just imagine, what a pushover less rich countries in the western alliance are (they also _need_ USD).

    See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53402694

    Imagine that happening on a global scale - in all kinds of important industries to 'get you out of being - the manufacturer of the world' (which means you are 'managable' through resource flows, you dont 'own the entire production chain on'.)

    Of course they are operated by the chinese government. ;) But thats not the point. :)
     
    Last edited by notimp, Nov 15, 2020
  19. Joom

    Joom  ❤❤❤
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Messages:
    5,891
    Country:
    United States
    There's also this.
    https://www.engadget.com/2020-03-02-huawei-trade-sanction-violation-documents.html?guccounter=1
     
  20. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    5,016
    Country:
    Laos
    Last edited by notimp, Nov 15, 2020
Draft saved Draft deleted
Loading...

Hide similar threads Similar threads with keywords - benefited, politics, Vietnam