1. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,568
    Country:
    Laos
  2. Kraken_X

    Kraken_X Advanced Member
    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2018
    Messages:
    61
    Country:
    United States
    From the article you posted...

    "More than 120,000 people were killed or injured by landmines between 1999-2017, according to the same group. Nearly half the victims are children, with 84% being boys. Civilians make up 87% of casualties."
     
    Xzi likes this.
  3. Cylent1

    Cylent1 Community Smart Ass!
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    567
    Country:
    United States
    Who cares.... If we send our kids to war you better make damn sure they have what they need because do you honestly think the other side is gonna care about rules? Didn't think so.
     
    CORE likes this.
  4. Viri

    Viri GBAtemp Addict
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,688
    Country:
    United States
  5. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,568
    Country:
    Laos
    > Nor did Russia, China, and India.

    Important context. Thanks.

    The treaty to abolish the use was signed only by the last administration. Trump now has reversed it.
     
  6. Sonic Angel Knight

    Sonic Angel Knight GBAtemp Legend
    Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    13,250
    Country:
    United States
    So what? Now I need to hire a mine detector dog or else I can't walk around freely outside? Or do I have to crawl around like solid snake so I don't get blown up? :blink:
     
  7. Cylent1

    Cylent1 Community Smart Ass!
    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    Messages:
    567
    Country:
    United States
    If you don't reside in the USA, then yes and sorry bout your luck!
     
  8. Sonic Angel Knight

    Sonic Angel Knight GBAtemp Legend
    Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    13,250
    Country:
    United States
    Oh, okay. Then nothing to worry about. I'm in Usa. :ninja:
     
  9. ignare

    ignare GBAtemp Regular
    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2019
    Messages:
    166
    Country:
    United States
    Blast those wussies!
     
  10. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,568
    Country:
    Laos
    Last edited by notimp, Feb 2, 2020
  11. Viri

    Viri GBAtemp Addict
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,688
    Country:
    United States
    I cannot find any source of Obama signing the treaty. Even if he did sign it, what's the point of signing the treaty, if you're not going to follow it? The US continued to land mine the fuck out of Korea, even under Obama.
     
  12. azoreseuropa

    azoreseuropa GBAtemp Guru
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Messages:
    9,261
    Country:
    Portugal
    Crazy.
     
  13. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,568
    Country:
    Laos
    Here is a list of states that have not banned them so far:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_the_Ottawa_Treaty#Non-signatory_states

    Obama wanted to ban their use entirely, then was strongly urged not to do that in S.Korea, because of structural security - so he allowed for that exception to be carved out. That then resulted in funny decrees that included that stock on land mines that was not allocated for South Korea had to be destroyed during his presidency. Now its back. (BBC article has enough detail, just read through it.)

    South Korea might be a special case indeed, as the government there is literally guaranteed and implemented through US intervention, there is a land border, distances arent huge. *cringe*
     
  14. Snugglevixen

    Snugglevixen Pending Deletion
    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,309
    Country:
    New Zealand
    Plant them around the border.
     
  15. Viri

    Viri GBAtemp Addict
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,688
    Country:
    United States
    The title of this thread is fake news. Trump didn't make them legal again, as they were never illegal in the first place. US never signed the treaty.
     
  16. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,568
    Country:
    Laos
    Read the article instead of spouting "fake news", then.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Feb 3, 2020
  17. slaphappygamer

    slaphappygamer GBAPerm
    Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    2,566
    Country:
    United States
    He just likes to bury things. He is even burying himself.
     
  18. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    7,415
    Country:
    Belgium
    If I'm honest: the scariest part of the article is that it took you guys until Obama to restrict them in the first place (restrict? Why not make it illegal in the freaking first place??? :angry:)

    Sure...you can count on the Trump administration to administer some dumb-ass sound bites on this matter.

    Mark Esper: "Landmines are an important tool that our forces need to have available to them in order to ensure mission succ..."
    Me: okay, I'm going to cut you off there, Mark, because you're either too dumb to understand what land mines are about or blatantly propagate terrorism. For your country's sake, I hope the former, but I'll better elaborate before some American gun nuts throw a tantrum because I dare to call their country propagate terrorism. Luckily, the percentages are already in the article (land mines kill far more civilians than militarians, and more children than adults), so I don't have to scour for sources. But it still leaves out a crucial aspect of mines that most other types of weapons do not have: land mines aren't so much designed to kill the enemy as to break their morale. It isn't a weapon for combat but for guerrilla warfare. Not aimed at winning an encounter or even standing ground but to break the ranks of the enemy in the most inhumane way possible.

    I'll probably better illustrate it with an example, but I must warn y'all: it's a gruesome one. It involves dealing with a gun nut vs one armed with land mines.
    Take a look outside. To your street. One side to the other side. then imagine for a second that one random pedestrian goes nuts and sees everyone as his enemy.

    Example A is the common armed person. He starts shooting. I won't lie: it's very dangerous (deadly, even) and most likely leaves some pretty nasty trauma. But the thing is: once the police apprehends him, at least the area is still more or less saf.

    Because take example B. Same guy buries some land mines in the area. Provided he isn't caught in the act, he literally scorches the entire neighborhood for God knows how long. Because just how much mines has he hidden, exactly? Even apprehended, he can still make victims years afterward. There is no way to feel safe, as you pretty much have to comb out every square inch of the neighborhood...and you don't want to do that as just doing that might get you killed.

    Land mines are also a terrorist weapon for a reason that has nothing to do with moral or ethics: the near impossibility to 100% clear a minefield. I mean...Belgium was a front line of the battles in both world wars (so over 80 (!) years ago). Well...just a few months ago, I heard that they had to evacuate about half a block because someone accidentally dug up a skeleton AND SOMETHING METALLIC in his garden. The chance that this was a dropped (and unexploded) bomb was just too high to be safe. Similar to mines: say your regiment sees strategic importance in laying out a mine field for...erm...some hypothetical reason that somehow doesn't make you a terrorist (feel free to come up with a reason...I honestly can't think of anyone besides terrorists doing it). It might serve its diabolical purpose in scaring the enemy, and the enemy is bad, so yeey. Okay...who will clean up that field?

    You don't know? Yeah: me neither. The "our side" that is supposedly the good side that nonetheless uses land mines will at some point move out to another location. The enemy may or may not have casualties or injuries(1) and will be forced into another tactic, elsewhere. So in a matter of days, weeks at the most, both parties are somewhere else...WHILE THOSE MINES ARE STILL THERE AND DANGEROUS. No matter any kind of cease fire, surrender and peace talks, that mine field remains a trap for anyone stepping into it. And because that long run always runs much longer than the few days (weeks) that it serves a purpose, it's no coincidence that it's civilians who are the main casualties there.




    (1): oh, right...I forgot: scaring your enemy is one aspect...but injuries can be much worse. I imagine it's not pretty to have to treat your fellow soldiers when he got shot, but either he's dead or he might recover after treatment. Land mines don't go for less than crippling, so forget about first aid: it's trying to comfort your fellow soldier when his feet and leg is brutally ripped from his body in less than a second after all was well. Not only wll he not recover, he'll be the burden upon his fellow enemies for as long as he's alive...
     
    Ev1l0rd and Kraken_X like this.
  19. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    3,568
    Country:
    Laos
    google ngram on the use of the words terrorist/terrorism

    https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=terrorist,+terrorism&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1;,terrorist;,c0;.t1;,terrorism;,c0

    When you are making an argument that lays into the ethics of war (or what today never would be called a war anymore because of legal/logistics), by using the emotial charge of the word terrorist, all that registers to me as is 'word was used as the new 'enemy' descriptor by the US after commie (and nazi) wouldnt do anymore'. To rectify their actions (going to war with iraq, ...).

    Just saying. Not picking a fight.

    edit: You can use the word terror (cultural concept of 'things you fear') as a control. You can search the german dataset, where the effect (hockeystick curve) is even more astonishing. (As germany wasnt so much confronted with terror attacks at the time, when the curve skyrocketed.)
     
    Last edited by notimp, Feb 5, 2020
Draft saved Draft deleted
Loading...

Hide similar threads Similar threads with keywords - landmines, Trump, makes