Trump Impeachment: Public Hearings Have Begun

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by IncredulousP, Nov 13, 2019.

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  1. cots

    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    You're still caught up in specifics based on an entire farce. You're buying into the bullshit. You can argue speculative hearsay all day long, but the specifics in these instances don't jive with reality. I could address every single thing that Liberals bring up about the entire situation, but that's playing into their hand. It's like spending 7 hours of an inquiry looking into if the witness had any information pertaining to the fact that Trump was guilty of a crime and using all but 2 minutes to distract from the issue that the witness has zero evidence. This is how the entire thing has been played out. A bunch of hot air coming from the Liberals. So excuse me if I don't want to start pointing out about each claim you bring up and how each one is bullshit. It's a waste of my intelligence and time. I specifically addressed this witness to highlight the overall invalidity of the entire 10th impeachment effort. I'm really not interested in being distracted by the things you mentioned that don't show any proof of quid pro quo. When you've got some actually valid evidence get back to me.

    Just because you're being accused of something doesn't mean you should provide unfettered access to your personal data/property, especially if the accusations are false. Who knows what else the Liberals will use and try to twist and use against Trump. If someone accuses me of something I will do whatever I can to prevent them from accessing any of my personal information. Just because you're doing nothing wrong doesn't give anyone a right to go through your stuff and nor does being accused of a crime. I love how people try to argue that if you're doing nothing wrong that you should just let anyone access your personal property or watch you on demand. Clearly, if I came to your house and asked to go through your entire house, including records like your bank accounts and to be given unfettered access to your email and browser history plus sit back and monitor and follow you around based on the fact that I claim that I overheard people saying you said something you'd be okay with that right? What about if I wanted to put cameras in your bathroom and watch your take a shower and go about your business on a daily basis. Surely, privacy doesn't matter nor should even be a thing. If that's the case, what's your gbatemp password? I accuse you of being a lying Liberal and want to make sure you're being honest.

    I do agree with you that the allegations are serious, which is why I would support punishing the people responsible for making them up if they don't produce an actual impeachment. I mean, this is the 10th attempt? Should we sit back and allow another four of five attemps to go on at our expense? Clearly, Congress could be working on moderate solutions to our problems instead of pandering to the Far Left socialists because their user base can't get over the fact that they lost. It's just a shit show that goes to show what sort of people Liberals are. Most of the USA sees right through the Liberal minorities agenda. You realize, that most of the country aren't Twitter trolls nor succumb to fake news sites. They work for a living. I've never liked poor losers. When I lose at something I accept defeat, shake my opponents hand and work to make things better. This is why Liberals will always be on the losing side of history.
     
    Last edited by cots, Nov 17, 2019
  2. Ev1l0rd

    Ev1l0rd (⌐◥▶◀◤) Developer - noirscape

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    Except, we're not talking about personal affairs here. If it's with personal affairs, I agree with you. Without a legal subpoena, you're not obliged to anything. The thing is though... we're talking about political business, specifically the way an official of the public behaves on their job. They should be subjected to extreme scrutiny, because otherwise they can get away with criminal behavior unchecked.

    If the government is thought to not be doing it's job properly, privacy should not matter when it comes to public business. We're not here to investigate whether Trump had sex with a porn star or not for example. That is a private matter and whilst it's fun gossip, it's by all accounts a private matter and nobody is expecting Trump to post dick pics to prove his dick doesn't look like Toad from Mario Bros.

    Trumps actions within regards to Ukraine is by all accounts something he does as a public official, and that should be subjected to extreme scrutiny. So yes, the fact that the White House is attempting to stifle what is one of the cornerstones of a democratic government (namely the fact that elected officials can be subjected to scrutiny if they're thought to not do their job properly), is something that is highly concerning and is at least in a general sense almost an admission of guilt.

    If you as a public official are going to be subjected to an investigation on your behavior as a public servant, you better damn well cooperate because that's in part the way you can show to the people that elected you that they made the right choice by electing you. Screaming and yelling like a toddler (which is what the administration has been doing aside from those who had some shred of moral value left and are cooperating with the investigation) isn't going to send that message.
     
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  3. Shenrai

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    The amount of effort they spent on this impeachment could have been spent on actually making America better
     
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  4. cots

    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    What about the previous 9 attempts? Or the collusion?
     
  5. cots

    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    I do agree that public servants should be held to higher standards then the general public, but if the White House in the their legal right to protect information that will probably be used to attack them now or in the future I support them doing so. It would be a different story if when asked for the transcript of the call that Trump wiped the confidential servers and then destroyed the hardware (hmm, I wonder who actually did that), but he simply handed over the transcript. There's information that Congress just isn't privy to and Trump is doing whatever is in his legal right to not give it to them. Personally, you hand something over now to someone and years down the road the information may be used to hurt you when it's totally unrelated to what is happening now or even isn't considering "bad" at this point in time. So I don't see that giving Congress unfettered access to the White House Staff is a good thing for democracy. We have 3 entities set up to check and balance each other. I wonder how Congress would respond to having to hand over confidential information if they were being investigated based on something that is probably a lie.

    I also wouldn't compare Trump with a toddler. The language he's using is meant to communicate with the illiterate Liberals that are attacking him. While some days I'm not sure if it's the best tactic to keep the babies outraged and distracted so you can run the White House, appoint Conservative justices, fix the economy, work on arresting illegal aliens, build a wall, etc ... but, it seems enough to keep them running around in circles to get stuff done. I do however find his distractions meant to manipulate his critics fucking hilarious. Liberals fall for it over and over. My cat is like 9 now and he's learned most of my tactics to get him to do things. Unlike my cat, which I have to constantly adapt to, Liberals are fooled by the same thing over and over again. So if anything Trump is simply communicating with them using their own language on their own level. However, I would make a shitty President because I'd just have the current laws enforced and arrest as many Liberals as I could for constantly breaking them. I guess Trump is a pretty good baby sitter in that fashion.

    So like, these hearings. I'm open to watching them. I didn't really pay attention to the cherry picked results being sold to the public by bias tabloid media sites (like CNN) that were being presented from hearings behind closed doors nor do I put much stock into taking what other people overheard as clear and cut evidence. However, I'm willing to accept any actually damning evidence that is presented and don't need the main stream media to tell me it's damning. So far, after two couple of days of testimony the Liberals haven't presented any evidence of quid pro quo. I'm not sure what next week will bring, but so far anyone with half a brain would realize that now matter how much they hate Trump or try to make him look bad that doesn't actually mean he committed a crime. I mean, after the fact their witness on Friday had zero evidence of quid pro quo they turned their focus on something Trump tweeted, which had nothing to do with their inquiry nor would anyone be aware he even Tweeted it if Schiff didn't bring it up. Exactly, why was he on his smart phone? Oh wait, looking for a way to distract the fact his witness had zero evidence and try to turns the public focus on something unrelated. He's like a bad magician trying to distract your eye so he can pull a coin out of his cuff, but is so terrible at his trick that you notice what he's doing the entire time and then in turn are not impressed with his trick.
     
    Last edited by cots, Nov 17, 2019
  6. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    Focus group finds most Americans don't know or care what impeachment is about.
    https://dailycaller.com/2019/11/15/focus-group-america-impeachment-process/

    No one cares about this. I didn't care about this for a good while before I decided to look into it because you guys didn't shut up about it.
    Its about impeaching a guy who wanted to investigate Democrat-Ukraine corruption. No wonder people don't give a crap. No one wants to hear politicians bicker like husband and wife.
     
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  7. RationalityIsLost101

    RationalityIsLost101 GBAtemp Regular

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    It's worth noting there are some developments since the hearings started last week. Most of the information contained in the recently released depositions corroborated information presented by earlier witnesses. While its not novel information, it still holds some significance.

    I'd like to point out the most significant new information I read last week.

    The July 26th call first mentioned by Bill Taylor between Gordon Sondland and President Trump which was overheard by three others at a restaurant. This is a major new development in the impeachment inquiry.

    Depending on Sondland's testimony we will likely see a roaring increase in impeachment proceedings or a dousing of the flame. (I expect him to just simply plead the fifth as his answer could be construed as a self-implication of attempted bribery- this path will not satisfy either side of course)

    I was skeptical of this new development until I realized one of the individuals, David Holmes, was testifying under oath in a private deposition regarding his recollection of this call.

    Below is his opening statement. This is considered first-hand information for those who are concerned with the degree of information a witness is presenting. His statement of the call's occurrence was purportedly corroborated by three other individuals (one of the three were not at the restaurant to my understanding - perhaps a White House staffer at a switchboard, or bystander at the restaurant?).

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/opening-statement-david-holmes-impeachment-inquiry

    https://www.wymt.com/content/news/A...knew-of-Ukraines-Trump-anxiety-565100312.html

    David Holmes, political counsel at the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv, has already detailed to House investigators what he overheard. (The two staffers) Suriya Jayanti and the third witness, Tara Maher, have not been interviewed by congress to my knowledge.
     
  8. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    Hey... I just got the opposite news : no less than 70% of Americans believe Trump was wrong (though only 51% think he should be impeached for his stupidity)
    https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2019/11/18/majority-support-removing-trump-071341

    ... There's going to be war, isn't it? B-)
     
    Last edited by Taleweaver, Nov 18, 2019
  9. Ev1l0rd

    Ev1l0rd (⌐◥▶◀◤) Developer - noirscape

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    The Daily Caller is a conservative news site with a history of posting false and uncorroborated news and was started by a Fox News anchor.

    It's also had writers who wrote white supremacist content on other websites.

    With all due respect, I'm saying that source is completely dogshit and shouldn't be used as fact.
     
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  10. RationalityIsLost101

    RationalityIsLost101 GBAtemp Regular

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    I got distracted from a call... I should add the significance of this call, as all I've discussed thus far is background. The claim is Gordon Sondland got on his cellphone, called President Trump to update him of his recent meeting. This occurs on page 6-7 of his opening statement that is linked above.

    "
    The President' s voice was very loud and recognizable , and Ambassador Sondland held the phone away from his ear for a period of time, presumably because of the loud volume.

    I heard Ambassador Sondland greet the President and explain that he was calling from Kyiv. I heard President Trump then clarify that Ambassador Sondland was in Ukraine. Ambassador Sondland replied, yes, he was in Ukraine and went on to state that President Zelenskyy " loves your ass ." I then heard President Trump ask , "he' s gonna do the investigation?" Ambassador Sondland replied that "he' s gonna do it," adding that President Zelenskyy will do "anything you ask him to."
    "

    "
    "After the call ended, Ambassador Sondland remarked that the President was in a bad mood, as Ambassador Sondland stated was often the case early in the morning. I then took the opportunity to ask Ambassador Sondland for his candid impression of the President's views on Ukraine. In particular, I asked Ambassador Sondland if it was true that the President did not" give a shit about Ukraine."

    Ambassador Sondland agreed that the President did not "give a s--t about Ukraine." I asked why not, and Ambassador
    Sondland stated that the President only cares about "big stuff." I noted that there was" big stuff going on in Ukraine, like a war with Russia, and Ambassador Sondland replied that he meant "big stuff" that benefits the President, like the Biden investigation Mr. Giuliani was pushing. The conversation then moved on to other topics.
    "
     
  11. chrisrlink

    chrisrlink Intel Pentium III Hamster inside

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    @SG845 you just cherrypick from an extreme right news site that spew utter horseshit you donm't go for neutral or even look at left leaning to verify you take trumps word like damn gold where i view it as the same value as shit in his personal toilet you are too blind to tell this is serious and it's republicans in the senate are traitorous fucks who only care about staying in power and nothing else hell i feel they maybe plotting to overthrow our government to remain in power
     
  12. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat

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    So other than the phone call between Trump and Sondland confirming that interest in investigating the Bidens superseded any interest in Ukraine or their internal corruption, there's been nothing new in these public hearings for anyone who has been paying attention. That's fine though, as this is all about holding the president accountable for violations of his oath of office and violations of the constitution. If a few fence-sitting voters who otherwise wouldn't have paid any attention learn something about the process or about how corrupt the Trump administration is along the way, that's just a bonus.

    Perhaps a little more interesting have been the results of recent elections as a litmus test for how this is affecting Trump's popularity and credibility among voters. Last year there were plenty of claims that the Mueller investigation would give Republicans a bump in the mid-term elections, and that was obviously proven false by the results. This year, we've had several state-level elections occur while impeachment proceedings have simultaneously been ongoing, and the results have been equally as bad for Republicans. Of all states, Democrats won in Kentucky, Louisiana, and Virginia. Republicans lost in spite of (or perhaps because of) Trump campaigning on behalf of the gubernatorial candidates in the Kentucky and Louisiana races. In Virginia, Dems claimed a majority in both the state House and state Senate. None of this bodes well for McConnell or the Republicans in 2020, and Trump's endorsement for down-ballot candidates is looking more and more like a kiss of death.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Nov 18, 2019
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  13. cots

    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    @chrisrlink @Ev1l0rd @Taleweaver

    About posting polls. If you post a poll that agrees with your Conservative views the Liberals will find a reason why the site is bias (mainly based it has some ties to a Conservative group or person). If you post a poll that agrees with your Liberal views the Conservatives will find a reason why the site is bias (mainly based it has some ties to a Liberal group or person).

    [Removed]

    Oh back to polls, they're also usually wrong no matter the source. They're like trying to predict the next 24 hours of weather and claiming you're so good at it you can predict the next 12 years (when in reality, the 24 hour forecasts are always wrong). Basically, I do not put much stock into polls regardless if they align with my anti-Liberal views. I tend to avoid shit that is never accurate. Sort of like I rather listen to one honest Conservative telling the truth compared to 100,000 liberals spouting lies. I'll take the truth over a lie any day of the week and just because you have a minority of millions claiming something is true doesn't make it so. Ask yourself this "Is a poll ever accurate"? I think that would be enough to make you see why polls are useless.
     
    Last edited by WeedZ, Nov 20, 2019 - Reason: Offtopic flamebait
  14. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    So does every other News site, remember the Covington case or the time Mueller had to come out and say the Buzzfeed article was false during the Russia investigation. Whats the difference? Basically nothing is trustworthy, you have to read with caution all the time. And Daily Caller doesn't fall into the questionable category when fact checking, https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-caller/.

    What does them being white supremacist have to do with asking people a question if they care about the Ukraine case? And everyone gets called white supremacist nowadays so I don't take those claims seriously anymore till someone makes a good case for it. And how do you know the source is dog shit, they are the ones doing the survey.


    What the fuck are you talking about? Its about a guy believing in a conspiracy theory and wanting Ukraine to investigate it. Everything you said about me is completely wrong. I said Trump will be the stupidest president ever if he gets impeached over a conspiracy theory he was obsessed with. So I have no idea what the hell you are talking about me following Trump's word like gold. Its a matter if people give a shit or not.
     
  15. cots

    cots GBAtemp Maniac

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    I know you weren't addressing me directly, but I'd like to comment about your last paragraph. If Trump does get impeached in the house and by some miracle the Senate does the same thing and he's removed from office then I'll support the decision. It's like these fucking idiots saying that Trump isn't their President. There's a system in place and it's currently at work. As usual the Democrats are obsessed with hatred and trying to control everyone.

    [Removed]

    Trump is smart, but he's not a political genius. We're sick of politicians running shit. That's why we voted for him. The Democrats chose right after he was elected to impeach him for basically anything they could come up with. That's not the way impeachment is supposed to happen. They lost the election and can't accept the results and are using the lack of education their voter base has about the way the Government works against Trump. Trump was using Ukraine to try to figure out who started the Russian Collusion Hoax. He may have been following a ghost, but at least he was trying to figure out who started the entire hoax, which wasted years of time and tax payer money. There was no fucking collusion (which, Democrats still won't openly admit). Trump is just a overall successful business man that isn't scared to play hard ball with moronic Liberals. He's not proper in any fashion. It seems American needed that. If per say in the highly unlikely outcome that he is removed from office then Pence will move in. I'm not sure if any of these Liberals actually realize how many of the positions Pence takes on things are far more extreme then Trump. However, they're so stupid they'll probably be celebrating Trump's removal and not realize that Pence would be bringing the country even more "far right". Hell, Trump has the liberals tripping over themselves by simply using Twitter while he is constantly firing dumb ass hate filled Democrats, replacing them with USA supporting Republicans and also while they're foaming at the mouth he's been appointing judges left and right. Plus, not the mention how he's been able to improve the economy.

    So like, if he does get removed from office I'll support it, just like I'd support the next President regardless if they are Democrat or Republican. I just realize that no matter what the Liberal Democrats do that the Republicans will still be in office, I won't be voting for any of their candidates and if Trump goes then oh well. I don't worship the person. He's not God. He's just a man. However, so far the Liberals haven't really been able to produce anything tangible in this 10th impeachment attempt. So like I'm not really worried that it's going to get Trump removed from office nor would I really care too much if he is. The chances though, like in you look at it based on reality, is that Trump isn't going anywhere.

    Sadly, when Obama won I had to basically explain to racist far righters that he was the actual President. Most radical (far left Liberals or far right neo nazi's) are out of touch with reality, but there's far more Liberals then there are actual far-right fuckers. I'd say the radical party with the most members is the more prominent danger, but I have no problem with treating both like the fucking idiots they are. And I'm talking about actual far right people - not white people that simply disagree with Liberals, but you do realize like you claimed about the Liberals misuse of labeling everyone white nationalists that these Liberals are the same people who claim anything they dislike is racist (including white milk). Yeah, well, sorry, I'm not going to even consider what these fucking idiots are saying as valid.
     
    Last edited by WeedZ, Nov 20, 2019 - Reason: Offtopic flamebait
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  19. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    Okay... So you've never learned about statistics. That's your loss. If you're interested, you could do a course (it's not that hard, really). If you do, I'll gladly discuss the finer details of both these polls, and how both can actually be true. But shouting that everyone is biased and that therefore everybody cheats is simply not true.

    ...but I take it you agree with me saying there was going to be war (as in verbal dispute, obviously), right? :P
     
  20. RationalityIsLost101

    RationalityIsLost101 GBAtemp Regular

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    I'd accept some argument that a particular poll has a bad sampling or methodology but polls do serve a purpose as alot of our politics are conducted by measuring the political winds if you will.
     
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  21. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    From your source

    "A total of 42 percent of respondents say they followed last week’s testimony “not so closely” or “not closely at all.”"
    "Despite the lack of enthusiasm for impeachment"

    Kinda supports they don't care. They probably just found out about the impeachment when politico gave them the question and answered it on the spot.
     
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  22. osaka35

    osaka35 Instructional Designer

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    Do you think the constant number-spoofing robo-calls is throwing off statistical models about phone-call based polls?


    Most folks aren't aware of the important things. My guess is they perceive this stuff as the process of figuring out what happened. They may not care about that too much, but they'll definitely be concerned with the results and what facts are discovered. Folks are busy and want the highlights.
     
    Last edited by osaka35, Nov 19, 2019
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  23. SG854

    SG854 If It Bleeds, We Can Kill It

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    It's like one of those things where depending who's taking the poll and how its taken it goes back and forth. One shows support while another doesn't. That's what it looked liked when they asked if they think Trump will win 2020, it was all lot of back and forth from all the polls I've seen.
     
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