Trump: Don't let Coronavirus dominate you.

[Hanafuda]

Of course he don't have any symptoms, maybe he didn't even got Coronavirus.

Doctors will say whatever he wants them to say! It's all about business, political business! Don't forget the huge revenue that will come afterwards!

I see the left pushing 'he's at death's door!' until he emerges, recovering well. Then I see the left pushing "he didn't even have it!"

Doctors will say whatever he wants them to say??? Are you suggesting medical personnel and 'scientists' opinions can be bought?!??! Extraordinary.

With all of these top people in the GOP testing positive, I think the 'he didn't even have it!' conspiracy is a flat tire. Sorry.

 

[gregory-samba]

I see the left pushing 'he's at death's door!' until he emerges, recovering well. Then I see the left pushing "he didn't even have it!"

Doctors will say whatever he wants them to say??? Are you suggesting medical personnel and 'scientists' opinions can be bought?!??! Extraordinary.

With all of these top people in the GOP testing positive, I think the 'he didn't even have it!' conspiracy is a flat tire. Sorry.

"Orange man bad". Regardless of what he does, says, doesn't do or doesn't say the Liberals suffering from TDS will attack him. They don't think for themselves so they have no way to be rational as they are just following crooks and their lies. Pretty sad actually when you think about it.

 

[Hanafuda]

"Orange man bad". Regardless of what he does, says, doesn't do or doesn't say the Liberals suffering from TDS will attack him. They don't think for themselves so they have no way to be rational as they are just following crooks and their lies. Pretty sad actually when you think about it.

Sad for everyone that sticky black goo touches.

 

[notimp]

He's also returning to the campaign trail. You'd imagine someone that was really sick couldn't walk let alone travel and stand up to talk for hours at a time. Like I've said in other threads, the odds of you getting really sick let alone dying from covid-19 are low. Most people who get it don't even show symptoms or get ill.

Still the same old distorter of truth I see..

While most people contracting Covid 19 show no symptoms, you still have a death rate of 5-15% (more if older) on the elderly.

Also Trump showed symptoms, hes on a steroid to help with breathing, and needed oxygen. And an antibody cocktail, not available to anyone else (outside of patients that take part in clinical testing), that only should get prescribed, once you have problems breathing (so your immune system has tried to tackle it and failed (its important, that it tried).).

If you are wondering btw, a little more than half of patents show no symptoms (that are significant enough, that they would think of doing something about them socially - (people are good at denying, if they might think that they've done something wrong, when you ask them).

Which is why wearing masks is crucial.
-

Also - if from now on, if you are sixty - you die - maybe within five years, because everyone in society is acting like you. Thats also kind of something we should do something about.

If as a result live expectancy is falling - permanently - people might rebel also.

 

[gregory-samba]

Still the same old distorter of truth I see..

While most people contracting Covid 19 show no symptoms, you still have a death rate of 5-15% (more if older) on the elderly.

Also Trump showed symptoms, hes on a steroid to help with breathing, and needed oxygen. And an antibody cocktail, not available to anyone else (outside of patients that take part in clinical testing).

If you are wondering btw, a little more than half of patents show no symptoms (that are significant enough, that they would think of doing something about them socially - (people are good at denying, if they might think that they've done something wrong, when you ask them).

Which is why wearing masks is crucial.
-

Also - if from now on, if you are sixty - you die - maybe within five years, because everyone in society is acting like you. Thats also kind of something we should do something about.

If as a result live expectancy is falling - permanently - people might rebel also.

Overall between all the age groups the average death rate is around 1% and as we test more people and find out they had it and didn't know that rate decreases. Yes, if you are older the percentage hovers around 5%, but no more. I was counting the overall average though. So the more testing we do the more that 1% is going to decrease. There's worse and more deadly things in life and I don't go around hiding from them. There's no reason to be scared and let the fear control you, because then you'll be making irrational choices based on fear and not the facts. Trump will most likely not die and that's not my opinion it's the logical conclusion as the death rate is really low.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

Still the same old distorter of truth I see..

While most people contracting Covid 19 show no symptoms, you still have a death rate of 5-15% (more if older) on the elderly.

Also Trump showed symptoms, hes on a steroid to help with breathing, and needed oxygen. And an antibody cocktail, not available to anyone else (outside of patients that take part in clinical testing), that only should get prescribed, once you have problems breathing (so your immune system has tried to tackle it and failed (its important, that it tried).).

If you are wondering btw, a little more than half of patents show no symptoms (that are significant enough, that they would think of doing something about them socially - (people are good at denying, if they might think that they've done something wrong, when you ask them).

Which is why wearing masks is crucial.
-

Also - if from now on, if you are sixty - you die - maybe within five years, because everyone in society is acting like you. Thats also kind of something we should do something about.

If as a result live expectancy is falling - permanently - people might rebel also.

What about herd immunity, though?

 

[notimp]

Overall between all the age groups the average death rate is around 1%

Jesus, how stubborn can you be. I've went through this with you before. Yes overall its below 1% which means that every eighth family would eventually have a family member die from it (4 grandparends, 4 parents, 4 children - (100/12)). And because infection death rate over the age of 60 is 5%, that statistically comes down to one in every fifth family. (More complicated math actually looking up the amount of people over a certain age in the US ) And once you are over 80 - its 15%. Every year.

And the older you are, the more likely you die from it. Risk only goes up.

Reason why you are not seeing 10-20x of influenca death numbers currently, are the measures that are taken to prevent spread.

WHO currently estimates, that about a tenth of world population might have been infected by now.

 

[gregory-samba]

What about herd immunity, though?

With the NIH, WHO and CDC releasing conflicting (wrong) information on a weekly basis it's still up in the air if heard immunity is happening with this virus. I believe it is because you have anti-bodies that protect you from the virus for about 3 months after you get over having it and since most people that get it don't even get sick or show symptoms the heard immunity might already be happening. It would be nice the the "experts" weren't releasing invalid/wrong information on a weekly basis, but that's just science mingling with politics for you.

 

[kevin corms]

The media speak on behalf of scientists. Trump only speaks on his own behalf.

I mean...not letting corona dominate you is a lot easier when you've got an army of doctors at your disposal with top of the line treatment, and your job consists of signing blank papers.

But ey...nitpicking aside, I gotta agree. It's nice to hear him say something positive for once.

Say what you will about Trump, the media does not speak on behalf of scientists. The media speaks on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry. They have mislead and lied, then gaslighted us, then blamed Trump for everything despite their own part. Do some research on articles and news stories quoting random "experts" who are mostly pundits and corporate sponsored think tanks. I wish there was a "good guy" in this, but there just isnt.

 

[gregory-samba]

Jesus, how stubborn can you be. I've went through this with you before. Yes overall its below 1% which means that every eighth family would eventually have a family member die from it (4 grandparends, 4 parents, 4 children - (100/12)). And because infection death rate over the age of 60 is 5%, that statistically comes down to one in every fifth family. (More complicated math actually looking up the amount of people over a certain age in the US ) And once you are over 80 - its 15%. Every year.

And the older you are, the more likely you die from it. Risk only goes up.

The health experts who put this sign together beg to differ. I'm going to stick with the current official numbers. That's of course until they follow the current trend and get reduced even further.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Say what you will about Trump, the media does not speak on behalf of scientists. The media speaks on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry. They have mislead and lied, then gaslighted us, then blamed Trump for everything despite their own part. Do some research on articles and news stories quoting random "experts" who are mostly pundits and corporate sponsored think tanks. I wish there was a "good guy" in this, but there just isnt.

Sadly for Liberals any material that would go against their agenda is immediately discarded or not even looked at. You've got better chances raising a Camel to shit gold bricks then you do to get a Liberal to admit they're wrong.

 

[kevin corms]

The health experts who put this sign together beg to differ. I'm going to stick with the current official numbers. That's of course until they follow the current trend and get reduced even further.

I expect survival rates to be lower in a country with such a high obesity rate and health care that is largely non accessible.

 

[notimp]

With the NIH, WHO and CDC releasing conflicting (wrong) information on a weekly basis

Stop doing what you are doing.

It is possible to look up 'wrong in what sense' and 'by how much'. If they are wrong by a little bit - you call them all kinds of names, not understanding what the term estimates means, or how wrong models can be and still be valuable.


THE SAME FREAKING TACTIC TRUMP HIMSELF HAS USED IN THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE.

Go home.



All you are sporting are brain imprints of deranged people. All your information is (at least partly) wrong.

And if you resort to political tactics (like people holding up signs with messages or numbers), to 'fight' against science, someone needs to stop you.

And I mean this seriously. You are misinformation spreading on this forums, like no one else.

WHO - arent angels, currently they have another abuse scandal on their heals - but they serve a purpose, and that purpose is not 'spreading structural misinformation to the countries they get payed by'. Regardless what you believe.


And one more thing. That you can so easily be baited to take 'information is wrong' and go straight into the depth of "we against them" "our president said, they were bad people" - so this is the gospel I'm following. Makes you so easily manipulatable. Take a step back, take a breath, ask sensible questions first. Like - 'by what margin are they off' and 'how does it matter'.

If you are open to emotional, ritualistic arguments, you make for a great grunt (always grafting, always moving, always on message), but you have shown little signs of actually thinking things through. (Critical thinking approach.)

 

[kevin corms]

Sadly for Liberals any material that would go against their agenda is immediately discarded or not even looked at. You've got better chances raising a Camel to shit gold bricks then you do to get a Liberal to admit they're wrong.

I dont think its really a liberal thing, its a tribal thing for a lot of people on both sides.

 

[gregory-samba]

I expect survival rates to be lower in a country with such a high obesity rate and health care that is largely non accessible.

That would make sense, but the trend for months has been the more people we test the more we found they had it and didn't know so the survival rate keeps going down. If it was trending the other way I'd say so. I don't win any prizes for lying. I'm just repeating what I've been observing over the duration of the year.

 

[crimpshrine]

Yeah I don't think the media speaks on behalf of science. Because if they did, they would be telling everyone to get N95 masks if they want to avoid transmitting/receiving the virus. Surgical masks make no difference that would matter according to the CDC. This is what it is, until they decide to change it for political reasons:

As I said in a another thread:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

We did not find evidence that surgical-type face masks are effective in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza transmission, either when worn by infected persons (source control) or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility (Figure 2). However, as with hand hygiene, face masks might be able to reduce the transmission of other infections and therefore have value in an influenza pandemic when healthcare resources are stretched.


Since Covid-19 has been confirmed that it can be airborne in a room with no airflow for several hours, this seems to confirm virus particles of less than 5 nano meters.

So if the CDC says surgical masks will not stop the transmission of influenza, that would then apply to Covid-19 also.

 

[deinonychus71]

It's always easier to talk about current numbers after all the precautions that were taken while having no idea how much worse it would have been without said precautions.
The problem was (and still is in some places) to not overflow hospitals, which not only affect Covid patients, but other patients as well.

I have a family member right now who needs surgery but can't because getting to a hospital and getting covid would most likely kill her even before the surgery.

It's not a fucking joke. I don't care if you're for Trump or Biden, this is not a US centric issue.

 

[gregory-samba]

Yeah I don't think the media speaks on behalf of science. Because if they did, they would be telling everyone to get N95 masks if they want to avoid transmitting/receiving the virus. Surgical masks make no difference that would matter according to the CDC. This is what it is, until they decide to change it for political reasons:

As I said in a another thread:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

We did not find evidence that surgical-type face masks are effective in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza transmission, either when worn by infected persons (source control) or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility (Figure 2). However, as with hand hygiene, face masks might be able to reduce the transmission of other infections and therefore have value in an influenza pandemic when healthcare resources are stretched.


Since Covid-19 has been confirmed that it can be airborne in a room with no airflow for several hours, this seems to confirm virus particles of less than 5 nano meters.

So if the CDC says surgical masks will not stop the transmission of influenza, that would then apply to Covid-19 also.

Surgical masks and simple cloth coverings do help reduce the dispersal of the particles you exhale, but you're right that they don't filter out the covid particles due to the size of the particles. Although, even though the covid particles are small they always stick to other things you're exhaling so that's why the N95 masks will protect you as they aren't even rated to filter out the small covid particles. It's just lucky they cling to the larger particles you exhale allowing the N95 masks to trap them.

So cloth coverings and surgical masks will reduce the dispersal rate and when you combine that with keeping 6 ft from someone that may be creating clouds of covid you're less likely to catch it. So you're correct that surgical masks don't filter out the smaller covid particles, but the particles always cling to other stuff so they are effective to a point. Of course, it would be best that everyone wore N95 rated masks.

 

[kevin corms]

Yeah I don't think the media speaks on behalf of science. Because if they did, they would be telling everyone to get N95 masks if they want to avoid transmitting/receiving the virus. Surgical masks make no difference that would matter according to the CDC. This is what it is, until they decide to change it for political reasons:

As I said in a another thread:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.

We did not find evidence that surgical-type face masks are effective in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza transmission, either when worn by infected persons (source control) or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility (Figure 2). However, as with hand hygiene, face masks might be able to reduce the transmission of other infections and therefore have value in an influenza pandemic when healthcare resources are stretched.


Since Covid-19 has been confirmed that it can be airborne in a room with no airflow for several hours, this seems to confirm virus particles of less than 5 nano meters.

So if the CDC says surgical masks will not stop the transmission of influenza, that would then apply to Covid-19 also.

The funny part is that Joe Rogan has an expert on his show over 6 months ago who told it like it was, if he was able to get an expert who actually got it right why couldnt anyone in American politics do so?

It's always easier to talk about current numbers after all the precautions that were taken while having no idea how much worse it would have been without said precautions.
The problem was (and still is in some places) to not overflow hospitals, which not only affect Covid patients, but other patients as well.

I have a family member right now who needs surgery but can't because getting to a hospital and getting covid would most likely kill her even before the surgery.

It's not a fucking joke. I don't care if you're for Trump or Biden, this is not a US centric issue.

Neither of them seem to have much of a concrete plan for this, or if they do they arent sharing. Its populism vs populism, both claim everything will just be fine if you vote for them without telling us how.

 

[notimp]

Say what you will about Trump, the media does not speak on behalf of scientists. The media speaks on behalf of the pharmaceutical industry. They have mislead and lied, then gaslighted us, then blamed Trump for everything despite their own part. Do some research on articles and news stories quoting random "experts" who are mostly pundits and corporate sponsored think tanks. I wish there was a "good guy" in this, but there just isnt.

The media is not a homogenious blob.

If it werent for 'the media' no one would talk about anything in this forum.

If it werent for the media Trump also would not have been elected. In 10 or more ways.

You are spreading misinformation - and do it so vaguely, that its hard to disprove you. Because you are voicing a believe. Nothing else.


And a debate shouldnt be about 'but I'm also entitled to a believe' without bringing examples, saying why....

Again - the people falling for that kind of propaganda, are the most stupid people in society, that have to look for the simplest explaniations for everything, and then stick to them, because it makes them feel informed.

Regardless, of that also being the thing that riles you up most, about liberals telling you all day. Part of it is an actual problem. If you need everything broken down to 'most easy level' - you will never have a sense of whats going on. That 'experts' do not as well, and that media is sensationalistic (more money), that outlets have some form of structural bias (financing), all is true at the same time.

Its driving everything to the extreme, on your part thats the problem (we against media). Democracy depends on you coming up with your own media outlets - not denounce people that are enabling an informed, and open (and yes, in some form biased) discussion.

Just because you are too stupid to understand that 'why cant I get ONE unbiased media outlet' (like state media in russia) never can be a solution. And that you not paying for news adds to the issue here - please dont promote an opinion that will literally destroy democracy.

Preventing counterspeach that gets heard, is the first thing a fashist does.

 

[crimpshrine]

Maybe I'm just lucky ti


Surgical masks and simple cloth coverings do help reduce the dispersal of the particles you exhale, but you're right that they don't filter out the covid particles due to the size of the particles. Although, even though the covid particles are small they always stick to other things you're exhaling so that's why the N95 masks will protect you as they aren't even rated to filter out the small covid particles. It's just lucky they cling to the larger particles you exhale allowing the N95 masks to trap them.

So cloth coverings and surgical masks will reduce the dispersal rate and when you combine that with keeping 6 ft from someone that may be creating clouds of covid you're less likely to catch it. So you're correct that surgical masks don't filter out the smaller covid particles, but the particles always cling to other stuff so they are effective to a point. Of course, it would be best that everyone wore N95 rated masks.

I was actually reading some articles earlier on how N95 masks miss some larger particles but trap really small ones. It has something to do with static if I remember correctly in how really small particles move in nature. I can't find it now.

The problem I have is that with surgical masks it won't prevent an asymptomatic person from spreading the Covid-19 basically at all, just them breathing expels the virus into the air surgical mask or not. (Giving a false sense of security)

I believe this could even lead to more susceptible people getting Covid-19. The media could be responsible for older people thinking incorrectly they have some level of protection from a surgical mask. If you are high risk, I would not be going around ANY kids/teens/young adults (proven to produce a lot of virus output compared to adults) My mom falls into that category. I kept warning her. Irony is she found out she already had it back in June, she has anti-bodies. She just thought it was bad allergies.