Trump brought back firing squads, the electric chair, and gasing people.

The church has a very simple explanation for why Dantes writing is not blasphemy:

quoted from the encyclical (by Benedict XV).
http://www.vatican.va/content/bened...en-xv_enc_30041921_in-praeclara-summorum.html


Because Jesus has high esteem for the writing of the Doctors. WHAT?

 

AND YOU, BELOVED CHILDREN, WHOSE LOT IT IS TO PROMOTE LEARNING UNDER THE MAGISTERIUM OF THE CHURCH, CONTINUE AS YOU ARE DOING TO LOVE AND TEND THE NOBLE POET [Dante Alighieri] WHOM WE DO NOT HESITATE TO CALL THE MOST ELOQUENT SINGER OF THE CHRISTIAN IDEA. THE MORE PROFIT YOU DRAW FROM STUDY OF HIM THE HIGHER WILL BE YOUR CULTURE, IRRADIATED BY THE SPLENDOURS OF TRUTH, AND THE STRONGER AND MORE SPONTANEOUS YOUR DEVOTION TO THE CATHOLIC FAITH.

AS PLEDGE OF CELESTIAL FAVOURS AND WITNESS OF OUR PATERNAL BENEVOLENCE WE IMPART TO YOU, BELOVED CHILDREN, WITH ALL OUR HEART, THE APOSTOLIC BENEDICTION.

Given at Rome at St. Peter's, April 30, 1921, the seventh year of Our Pontificate.

BENEDICT XV

src:
http://www.vatican.va/content/bened...en-xv_enc_30041921_in-praeclara-summorum.html
---

I wonder why we dont derive everyday law from the teachings of those people...

Here are some of the noble poets depictions illustrated:

Sandro Botticelli, The Abyss of Hell, 1480s, coloured drawing on parchment, 320 x 470 mm.
Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Rome
see: http://www.travelingintuscany.com/art/sandrobotticelli/danteillustrations.htm


Orcagna (1265-1312), The Inferno of Dante Alighieri, Middle Ages, Italy.


Satan is trapped in the frozen central zone in the Ninth Circle of Hell, Inferno, Canto 34. Illustration by Gustave Doré.



Dantes Inferno and his impact on the development of Chrstianity:
https://www.1517.org/articles/dante-and-our-obsession-with-hell

Contemporary art inspired by Dante:
http://www.travelingintuscany.com/art/sandrobotticelli/danteillustrations.htm

Dantes nine circles of hell (moral dogma):
https://www.thoughtco.com/dantes-9-circles-of-hell-741539


So all of this is made up. Not part of any of the holy books. But its more than interpretation. Its original imagination. And its done not by a holy man - but by a poet. Who is mostly obsessed by visions of hell. Who is then pronounced divine by a holy man. Praising his work. And making it christian doctrine, to study that mans work -- because the more you study it, the more 'religious truths' you will derive from it. Literally making you a better christian. Because Dante (according to the encyclical) had 'studied all christian teachings to the fullest' and then made up his own.

And thats how we end up at religious, hence moral law (dogma), which all the good people believe in, but all the bad people ("following Satan") dont.

Better book another counseling session with your religious guidance officer tomorrow, you might have to talk about a few things.

 

But as said before the topic was not intended to discuss 'if those are now proper ways to kill people' - because the Trump administration proposed it.

The topic was created to find out how far some of the people in here would go to defend amoral actions, just because they believe that Trump has put them into action for a 'higher' reason. And why.

With the same certainty, that gasing people is right, it was pronounced, that half of the senate is occupied by unethical (because not following the correct religion) people ("Just as Satan wants").

And what followed then was an exploration of the contemporary 'image of satan' in the catholic church.

We also explored, how 'religious law' would look like - because as contemplated, its the only 'moral one' ("Its those progressives, that prevent it from becoming state law."). And looked at a history of how certain religious dogmas came to be.

And we looked at the history of civil and criminal law in the US.

Entirely on topic as far as I'm concerned.

I dont need a discussion about your opinion on "if gassing people is now ok", because the Trump administration made it so. That would be useless..

(We also had a few people trying to flog conspiracy theories in here - if the current administration needs to kill a few people on death row sooner (because they know too much), so they 'just made a new law' - because everyone knows, that people on death row talk to the media on a regular basis, and often change the entire course society is taking just announcing their truths. (About why they killed or raped a person, I presume?) But that was just picking up the mood in here, and running with it - I guess... )


edit:

https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/what-language-did-dante-write-thedivine-comedy-135455

Isnt that sweet? Dante wrote Inferno - for the people!

In fact "Inferno" was the first catholic text of importance accessible to everyday people:

src: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante_Alighieri

And 100 years after that the encyclical was produced by the vatican.

What a deeply, deeply moral person! A divine poet! (As the encyclical says.) Because people took what he wrote literally. For centuries.

src: https://www.khanacademy.org/humanit...dy-in-late-medieval-and-early-renaissance-art


edit: Dantes enduring influence on christianity: https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/dantes-enduring-influence

And thats Dante and the origin of popular catholic moral theory and law, explained using mostly christian sources.


If you want a moral philosophy interpretation - start here:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dante/
https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Dante's+Deadly+Sins:+Moral+Philosophy+In+Hell-p-9780470671054

If you want to get a notion how "universal morals" are used in political organizing, read this:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pop-psych/201403/dante-s-inferno

So "morality needs to function on the basis of acts; not the identity of the actors." blending together social classes, and people regardless of motives.

Which is in direct conflict, with people wanting to find 'gasing others' moral, just because 'Trump said it was OK'. What follows is, that those people are inherently immoral.

Thats the conflict I'm interested in.

 

But thats not moral law, and not how moral law operates.

Just because its sanctioned by the Trump, that doesnt make it morally ok.

Say you are gassing people for a living, and parttaking in firing squads, shooting them on the weekends, are your actions moral? And by what justification?

Trump? State law? Circumstance?

No - you are talking about moral principles. Is something morally right, or not? ( “The dynamic coordination theory of morality holds that evolution favored individuals equipped with moral intuitions who choose sides in conflicts based, in part, on “morality” rather than relationship or status” )

Which is also why some people in here are saying they will never accept state law as something 'more valuable' than 'religious teachings' - and why they are saying that its only progressives who would prevent them from establishing religious law, as national law.

But at the same time they look away, when Trump 'allows gasing people' because -- 'those people should have anticipated that coming'. Even though they couldnt.

 

Based on what moral principle?

Coming from a person living in europe, where we at least cover the living needs for every person (if they are a citizen), no matter the circumstance.


(Just to get the logistics argument out of the way.

src: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offenders_executed_in_the_United_States_in_2020 )
Based on what moral argument is it moral to reinstitute firing squads and gasing people - so you dont have to keep paying the living costs for three people. (Presuming this ruling gets toppled by a Biden administration.)

Or phrased as a direct statement, when faced with having to pay the living costs for three individuals, the US legal system decided it was moral to reinstate firing squads and gasing people, based on what had to be payed to sustain three individuals?