1. urherenow

    urherenow GBAtemp Psycho!
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    lol... so Biden can correct that... Republicans still own the Senate. And what needs correcting is the life sentence without the possibility of parole. That shit should be abolished. Either you think someone can be "reformed" and join society again, or you don't. If you don't, why the fuck should my tax dollars pay for 3 squares a day and medical care for the POS? Either there is a chance for parole, or the sentence should be death. Sometimes there is admission/confession. In that case, the sentence should not even be delayed. Not even 1 year.
     
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  2. ccfman2004

    ccfman2004 GBAtemp Addict
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    On the same note, why do some states have long mandatory sentences for minor offenses like smoking a joint? Why should I be paying for his stay? As long as he isn’t hurting anyone or committing an actual crime like robbery who cares if he wants a little high in his life.
     
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  3. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
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    The church has a very simple explanation for why Dantes writing is not blasphemy:

    quoted from the encyclical (by Benedict XV).
    http://www.vatican.va/content/bened...en-xv_enc_30041921_in-praeclara-summorum.html


    Because Jesus has high esteem for the writing of the Doctors. WHAT?
     
  4. mammastuffing

    mammastuffing GBAtemp Regular
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    If you were to be sentenced to death while knowing you were innocent. Would you find it acceptable and just unfortunate and still be happy that at least the majority of your fellow death row inmates are actually guilty?
     
  5. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
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    AND YOU, BELOVED CHILDREN, WHOSE LOT IT IS TO PROMOTE LEARNING UNDER THE MAGISTERIUM OF THE CHURCH, CONTINUE AS YOU ARE DOING TO LOVE AND TEND THE NOBLE POET [Dante Alighieri] WHOM WE DO NOT HESITATE TO CALL THE MOST ELOQUENT SINGER OF THE CHRISTIAN IDEA. THE MORE PROFIT YOU DRAW FROM STUDY OF HIM THE HIGHER WILL BE YOUR CULTURE, IRRADIATED BY THE SPLENDOURS OF TRUTH, AND THE STRONGER AND MORE SPONTANEOUS YOUR DEVOTION TO THE CATHOLIC FAITH.

    AS PLEDGE OF CELESTIAL FAVOURS AND WITNESS OF OUR PATERNAL BENEVOLENCE WE IMPART TO YOU, BELOVED CHILDREN, WITH ALL OUR HEART, THE APOSTOLIC BENEDICTION.

    Given at Rome at St. Peter's, April 30, 1921, the seventh year of Our Pontificate.

    BENEDICT XV

    src:
    http://www.vatican.va/content/bened...en-xv_enc_30041921_in-praeclara-summorum.html
    ---

    I wonder why we dont derive everyday law from the teachings of those people...

    Here are some of the noble poets depictions illustrated:

    Sandro Botticelli, The Abyss of Hell, 1480s, coloured drawing on parchment, 320 x 470 mm.
    Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Rome
    see: http://www.travelingintuscany.com/art/sandrobotticelli/danteillustrations.htm
    [​IMG]

    Orcagna (1265-1312), The Inferno of Dante Alighieri, Middle Ages, Italy.
    [​IMG]

    Satan is trapped in the frozen central zone in the Ninth Circle of Hell, Inferno, Canto 34. Illustration by Gustave Doré.
    [​IMG]


    Dantes Inferno and his impact on the development of Chrstianity:
    https://www.1517.org/articles/dante-and-our-obsession-with-hell

    Contemporary art inspired by Dante:
    http://www.travelingintuscany.com/art/sandrobotticelli/danteillustrations.htm

    Dantes nine circles of hell (moral dogma):
    https://www.thoughtco.com/dantes-9-circles-of-hell-741539


    So all of this is made up. Not part of any of the holy books. But its more than interpretation. Its original imagination. And its done not by a holy man - but by a poet. Who is mostly obsessed by visions of hell. Who is then pronounced divine by a holy man. Praising his work. And making it christian doctrine, to study that mans work -- because the more you study it, the more 'religious truths' you will derive from it. Literally making you a better christian. Because Dante (according to the encyclical) had 'studied all christian teachings to the fullest' and then made up his own.

    And thats how we end up at religious, hence moral law (dogma), which all the good people believe in, but all the bad people ("following Satan") dont.

    Better book another counseling session with your religious guidance officer tomorrow, you might have to talk about a few things. ;)
     
    Last edited by notimp, Nov 29, 2020
  6. ccfman2004

    ccfman2004 GBAtemp Addict
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    Man have some of us (me included) have gone way off topic.
     
  7. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
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    But as said before the topic was not intended to discuss 'if those are now proper ways to kill people' - because the Trump administration proposed it. :)

    The topic was created to find out how far some of the people in here would go to defend amoral actions, just because they believe that Trump has put them into action for a 'higher' reason. :) And why.

    With the same certainty, that gasing people is right, it was pronounced, that half of the senate is occupied by unethical (because not following the correct religion) people ("Just as Satan wants").

    And what followed then was an exploration of the contemporary 'image of satan' in the catholic church.

    We also explored, how 'religious law' would look like - because as contemplated, its the only 'moral one' ("Its those progressives, that prevent it from becoming state law."). And looked at a history of how certain religious dogmas came to be. :)

    And we looked at the history of civil and criminal law in the US.

    Entirely on topic as far as I'm concerned. ;)

    I dont need a discussion about your opinion on "if gassing people is now ok", because the Trump administration made it so. That would be useless.. ;)

    (We also had a few people trying to flog conspiracy theories in here - if the current administration needs to kill a few people on death row sooner (because they know too much), so they 'just made a new law' - because everyone knows, that people on death row talk to the media on a regular basis, and often change the entire course society is taking just announcing their truths. (About why they killed or raped a person, I presume?) But that was just picking up the mood in here, and running with it - I guess... ;) )


    edit:

    https://www.enotes.com/homework-help/what-language-did-dante-write-thedivine-comedy-135455

    Isnt that sweet? Dante wrote Inferno - for the people! :)

    In fact "Inferno" was the first catholic text of importance accessible to everyday people:
    src: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante_Alighieri

    And 100 years after that the encyclical was produced by the vatican.

    What a deeply, deeply moral person! A divine poet! (As the encyclical says.) Because people took what he wrote literally. For centuries.

    src: https://www.khanacademy.org/humanit...dy-in-late-medieval-and-early-renaissance-art


    edit: Dantes enduring influence on christianity: https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/dantes-enduring-influence

    And thats Dante and the origin of popular catholic moral theory and law, explained using mostly christian sources.


    If you want a moral philosophy interpretation - start here:
    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dante/
    https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Dante's+Deadly+Sins:+Moral+Philosophy+In+Hell-p-9780470671054

    If you want to get a notion how "universal morals" are used in political organizing, read this:

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pop-psych/201403/dante-s-inferno

    So "morality needs to function on the basis of acts; not the identity of the actors." blending together social classes, and people regardless of motives.

    Which is in direct conflict, with people wanting to find 'gasing others' moral, just because 'Trump said it was OK'. What follows is, that those people are inherently immoral.

    Thats the conflict I'm interested in.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Nov 29, 2020
  8. GomenaSAIKE

    GomenaSAIKE Newbie
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    Read the article again Op you cherry picking, culture war/civil war instigator.
    Trump ain't trying to Gulag anyone.
    A state CHOOSES to have the Death Penalty.
    As well as the METHODS it can go about the Deed.
    Having FEDERAL GOV. decide what a STATE has decided to do, its a breach of power... unless challenged in the Supremes Courts.
     
  9. ccfman2004

    ccfman2004 GBAtemp Addict
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    I still and have always believed that any one that committed a crime that caused pain and suffering like murder and they are sentenced to death, their death shouldn't be humane. They don't deserve it.

    EDIT: I just realized that the listed article is from CNN. CNN is on my heavily biased, don't trust to tell the truth list of media outlets. I would question how much is actually true.
     
    Last edited by ccfman2004, Nov 29, 2020
  10. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
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    But thats not moral law, and not how moral law operates.

    Just because its sanctioned by the Trump, that doesnt make it morally ok.

    Say you are gassing people for a living, and parttaking in firing squads, shooting them on the weekends, are your actions moral? And by what justification?

    Trump? State law? Circumstance?

    No - you are talking about moral principles. :) Is something morally right, or not? ( “The dynamic coordination theory of morality holds that evolution favored individuals equipped with moral intuitions who choose sides in conflicts based, in part, on “morality” rather than relationship or status” )

    Which is also why some people in here are saying they will never accept state law as something 'more valuable' than 'religious teachings' - and why they are saying that its only progressives who would prevent them from establishing religious law, as national law. ;)

    But at the same time they look away, when Trump 'allows gasing people' because -- 'those people should have anticipated that coming'. Even though they couldnt.
     
    Last edited by notimp, Nov 29, 2020
  11. ccfman2004

    ccfman2004 GBAtemp Addict
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    While you think it might be morally wrong to kill a murderer, I believe it is morally wrong for me to have to pay for the housing of such a person for the rest of his life in prison. I had nothing to do with his murders so why should I have to pay for his housing. If you commit premeditated murder, you don’t deserve to live since it’s clear you don’t value life like others do. Also you don’t deserve a humane execution.

    While I'm at it I think it's morally wrong for a company to be legally allowed to make money from a product that's sole purpose is to kill its user (Cigarettes and Cigars).
     
    Last edited by ccfman2004, Nov 29, 2020
  12. notimp

    OP notimp Well-Known Member
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    Based on what moral principle?

    Coming from a person living in europe, where we at least cover the living needs for every person (if they are a citizen), no matter the circumstance.


    (Just to get the logistics argument out of the way.
    src: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_offenders_executed_in_the_United_States_in_2020 )
    Based on what moral argument is it moral to reinstitute firing squads and gasing people - so you dont have to keep paying the living costs for three people. (Presuming this ruling gets toppled by a Biden administration.)

    Or phrased as a direct statement, when faced with having to pay the living costs for three individuals, the US legal system decided it was moral to reinstate firing squads and gasing people, based on what had to be payed to sustain three individuals?
     
    Last edited by notimp, Nov 29, 2020
  13. CPG

    CPG good morning.
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    shouldn't we just get rid of the executions? They really don't seem to put a dent in violent crime... and they cost more to execute someone than to give them a life sentence...
     
    Last edited by CPG, Nov 29, 2020
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  14. AmandaRose

    AmandaRose Do what I do. Hold tight and pretend it’s a plan
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    And yet it is cheaper to keep them in prison for life than to execute them lol. Do you still want them executed now that it is costing you more of your hard earned money to execute them?

    https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/death-penalty/death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost/
     
  15. Hanafuda

    Hanafuda GBAtemp Psycho!
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    If I had no way out of it, I would choose firing squad over just about any other form of execution that's ever been practiced. Or, even better than firing squad would be one round of .30/06 or .308 Winchester through the back of the head fired from about 10 meters away. Humane and painless as it gets, and would only cost the taxpayers about one dollar.
     
  16. CPG

    CPG good morning.
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    honestly, i would say that the best way to execute someone if we had to is with a guillotine.
     
  17. Hanafuda

    Hanafuda GBAtemp Psycho!
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    There is a possibility of a very brief moment of consciousness after the decapitation and the brain receiving the most extreme pain signals possible with the severing of the spinal cord. With a rifle bullet to the back of the head, the brain is blown to mush before it ever has a chance to process what happened to it.
     
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  18. gregory-samba
    This message by gregory-samba has been removed from public view by AlanJohn, Nov 29, 2020, Reason: Referring to LGBT as "Perverse".
    Nov 29, 2020
  19. CPG

    CPG good morning.
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    oh my fucking god, not this bullshit again. We aren't violating the freedom of speech. We are showing you the door, because we don't like assholes on the temp.

    edit: i think this simplifies things: [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by CPG, Nov 29, 2020
  20. gregory-samba
    This message by gregory-samba has been removed from public view by p1ngpong, Nov 29, 2020, Reason: flaming -p1ng.
    Nov 29, 2020
  21. MikaDubbz

    MikaDubbz GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    I'm as happy to be done with Trump as the next person, but do we really need another thread pointing out what a piece of shit he is? At this point we all get it, we have all formed our opinions on the man, and he'll be out of office in just over a month. What good does a thread like this even do at this point?
     
  22. gregory-samba
    This message by gregory-samba has been removed from public view by p1ngpong, Nov 29, 2020, Reason: off topic -p1ng.
    Nov 29, 2020
  23. CPG

    CPG good morning.
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    i think this more the entire country, than just trump.

    then again, im a 15 year old canadian, so idk

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    There's no difference!
    [​IMG]
     
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