Thoughts/Rant on Recent IronHax/TubeHax and Homebrew Scenes in General

Discussion in '3DS - Homebrew Development and Emulators' started by chikenstew, Aug 18, 2015.

  1. chikenstew

    chikenstew Newbie

    With the recent release of IronHax/TubeHax, I have some thoughts I'd like to get off my chest and share with you all.

    First off, I want to make it absolutely clear that I don't mean to complain or show disrespect for smea's (and other's) work; I appreciate all the work they have done (and you all should too), because they have done tons of wonderful work for the 3DS homebrew scene and deserve a big round of applause.

    However, this is where the ironic part comes in for me...I actually couldn't find the motivation to download IronHax/TubeHax and try out all those awesome homebrews. And that's because I know that eventually they will come out with a firmware update that will fix those exploits, which again leaves me with the ever eternal dilemma: Do I want keep my homebrews, or do I want to update so that I can play that great new game that's coming out but requires the new firmware?

    The real problem here, I think, is that the big companies like Nintendo and Sony are becoming smarter and better at blocking off these things, especially with firmware updates for their consoles. Just take a look at the PS Vita...The current ePSP and Rejuvenate exploits all have the requirement of your console having at least a specific firmware or below.

    Back to my dilemma...Now some of you may ask "Why not just get another 3DS and use it solely for homebrew?" In my case, I already have an O3DS XL (which I use with Gateway) and bought a N3DS (no thanks to Nintendo overhyping it) which is now stuck on 9.2 (and I don't want to go online with it because I don't want to update any further for fear of future exploits; I don't feel like installing CFW either because it involves CIA installations and I fear bricking my N3DS); I honestly just don't feel like putting down even more money for a 3rd 3DS just for homebrew. I really miss the good old days, when all you needed to buy was ONE console (such as the NDS with "extra" hardware and PSP for example) for all your legit gaming/homebrew/piracy/whatever needs.

    Anyways, my point is, as it currently stands, it seems the big companies are slowly but surely winning (or at least partially) this war.

    These are just my personal thoughts...What do you guys think?
    Last edited Aug 19, 2015
  2. Naked_Snake

    Naked_Snake Constant Miscreant

    Oct 6, 2013
    Hyrule Field
    A) it wasn't just Smealum, clearly mentioned at the very bottom of the homebrew launcher page.
    B) it will always be a never ending game of cat and mouse, just have to accept the fact this will never change.
    Ultimatezmaili and HaloEffect17 like this.
  3. TecXero

    TecXero Technovert

    Apr 13, 2014
    United States
    Well, there's really not much the homebrew scene has to offer yet. If you're concerned about updates and future games, then just keep up to date and wait until the end of the 3DS's commercial lifespan to get into homebrew. PSP homebrew wasn't really that great until towards the end, with a few exceptions. If you wait until Nintendo stops updating the 3DS, there will probably be an exploit released that someone was holding onto for the end, and the homebrew scene will be better developed.

    I'm not that concerned with new games, so I'm fine with staying back and watching the homebrew scene grow.
  4. lemanuel

    lemanuel Maxconsole's All-Knowing Lurker

    Dec 11, 2014
    I didn't quite understand though.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong but you said that you have a O3DS that you use with Gateway (so it has exploitable firmware) and a N3DS with firmware 9.2 (also exploitable).
    So right now you're able in both consoles to run roms and homebrew alike.

    So you're just complaining about the situation in general or are you complaining about your situation in particular?

    You say:

    With your current consoles (both of them!) you're able to play most homebrew if not all (which actually aren't a lot yet, at least compared with other consoles) and you're able to play past and present games alike, even the ones that require firmware above which you currently have (using GW and/or CFW allows it). Possibly future games as well but that remain to be seen so I won't say anything about it.

    So again... what are you complaining about exactly? That's what got me confused.
    JJTapia19 likes this.
  5. Xulin

    Xulin Member

    Aug 8, 2015
    United States
    I can relate to that. The "scene" seems to give me some sort of anxiety, like you always have to be looking out for the latest exploits, always having to make sure you or your friends/family don't accidentally update your game/firmware, and not ever knowing when that 1 game that requires a mandatory firmware updates comes out and you have to make the choice between it and homebrew.

    So I get all this anxiety for what... some barebones emulators and region free? I think I rather straight up pay another $200 for a Japanese system and not have to deal with the anxiety of it all. And emulators are way better on phones. It's all for nothing really. Meh.
    Last edited by Xulin, Aug 18, 2015
  6. zoogie

    zoogie playing around in the dsiware

    Nov 30, 2014
    Micronesia, Federated States of
    The console scene is not for everybody.

    I love it though, and can't stand the thought of the Android "scene".
    What fun is there in that? It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Everything is handed to you and guaranteed.
    The cat-n-mouse aspect of console hacking gives it a sense of danger, risk, and excitement. Challenge, like a good video game itself, gives value to a hobby.
    Boy12 and lemanuel like this.
  7. sj33

    sj33 GBAtemp Psycho!

    Oct 22, 2013
    The console manufacturers have been willing the battle ever since firmware updates were introduced.

    Here's the thing - they know that making a literally unhackable console is probably impossible. But they don't need to. They just need to make console hacking an extreme niche so that it doesn't reach the mainstream levels of the PS1 days. They have essentially succeeded at this. Online connectivity is more important than ever, and there are real benefits to staying on the latest firmware. This essentually fragments the potential audience for console hacking and relegates it to the small minority of people on older firmwares that are becoming increasingly obsolete.

    The other issue is the sheer complexity of today's consoles and the amount of effort and manpower needed to hack a console. The days of simple modchips are long-gone, and even software modding requires going through an incredible amount of layers of encryption. Gateway have done very well because they have a fair amount of financial backing and are supported by some key hackers, but even their flash cart is limited to obsolete firmwares.

    Console manufacturers won the battle long ago.
    chikenstew likes this.
  8. Xulin

    Xulin Member

    Aug 8, 2015
    United States
    I think I follow the scene more out of custom than anything else, when I was a broke teenager in the DS/PSP days I needed the scene for piracy mostly. It was either that or I couldn't play 90% of the games I wanted. Now I'm a grown man with a career, it doesn't really hurt to drop $40 on a game anymore, piracy is pointless. I can afford better emulation toys, and I can afford to buy every 3DS from every region if I wanted to. There's no point to this anymore, it used to be an economical thing but nowadays... I just spent $3,5000 building a new gaming PC a few weeks ago, my GPU alone is worth more than buying every 3DS from every region. So meh.
  9. LordStarkiller

    LordStarkiller GBAtemp Regular

    Jul 22, 2015
    United States
    I prefer the console scene. It's winners and losers though, if you don't keep an eye on the scene you might miss a new exploit, risk and reward is what I'm saying and it's a never-ending game of cat and mouse.

    Seriously though, I'm seeing a trend of negativity going on here that hums along to the tune "What's the point?" The point is having fun and getting the most out of your console of choice. My PSP Go is the best thing that ever happened to me due to the massive amount of emulators and games I have on it as well as isos of games I own. If I knew the scene was gonna be this depressing I never would've bothered registering here in the first place.
    Last edited by LordStarkiller, Aug 18, 2015
    zoogie likes this.
  10. DjoeN

    DjoeN Captain Haddock!

    Oct 21, 2005
    Somewhere in this potatoland!
    You should have then updated your N3DS to 9.9 and downloaded Ironfall and Youtube (if it isn't already on it), your O3DS (if it's on 9.2 to) you should have used firmware spoof and get the game and app, then perform the hack to play Homebrew on your N3DS and O3DS
    You should be safe for some time to play the newer games that come out.

    If you still feel dissattisfied, you can always update your N3DS with future updates to get access to newer (online) games and eshop because you still have your O3DS for all the rest. No extra cost needed.

    My N3DS is for gaming and legit games, i hacked it now with Youtube and Ironfall, but when a newer FW comes out and games require a newer version then 9.9.0-26 i will update it, i still have my O3DS for all the other stuff. But it's nice to know that i can check out some homebrew on N3DS, homebrew can only get better, look at Whackamole for 3DS from @cebolleto
  11. Ra1d

    Ra1d GBAtemp Maniac

    Jul 31, 2010
    So you have 2 consoles on 9.2 which basically give you unlimited options, you can even go to e-shop (by spoofing your e-shop) with your current firmware version, yet you chose to never go online with it.... ok.

    As for the whole rant, well if you were Nintendo you wouldn't want people pirating your games, so as time went by all the companies like Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo have significantly improved their security because it was a major problem and had an increased budget just to counter piracy.
    lemanuel likes this.
  12. twicefalles

    twicefalles Advanced Member

    Jan 3, 2015
    On the 3ds we have firmware spoofing and eshop access, even on 9.0.
    Games are cryptofixed and there is no disadvantage for not being on 9.9
    Compare that to the Ps Vita, where you cant access the shop when you want to run vhbl. This is probably why I got a 3ds and sold my vita.
    Plus, cfw on the o3ds is completely free and all you need for homebrew is free too. I remember buying exploit games for the vita...
  13. sj33

    sj33 GBAtemp Psycho!

    Oct 22, 2013
    None of that works on the latest 3DS firmware, though. EmuNAND is great but still requires a person to have an obsolete SysNAND version. This is not a minor thing - it means that hacking on the 3DS is niche right from the start, and only becomes more niche as less and less people have compatible firmwares.

    The Vita is definately in a worse place, of course. I can't play Phantasy Star Nova because it requires 3.30, and I'm still running 3.18 due to wanting to keep the TN-X PS1 Loader. Sony have been much better than Nintendo at making older firmwares obsolete, in this regard.

    Remember, the key for console manufacturers isn't to completely eliminate hacking and piracy. The key is to restrict it to an irrelevent niche.
    chikenstew likes this.
  14. Sumea

    Sumea Disco Ninja Frog

    Aug 16, 2008
    As for your dilemma between upgrading or leaving:
    That is on you, not much everyone else. Currently the reality is that to mod 3DS you have to stay in certain firmwares. The good thing about these current two exploits is that they leave your 3DS clean inside out in case it gets broken or whatever.

    Ultimately this is what you live with. It is not like that the updates aren't beneficial to end user. We got loads of new features to 3DS through these updates, including the Theming you can now do more freely with this homebrew.

    Ultimately this is not even hacker issue: Sony already issues the ultimatum to the NORMAL OFFICIAL USERS OF THEIR SYSTEMS AND FEATURES SONY GAVE THEM: If you update beyond 3.1 you lose OtherOS. There was tons of people who DID use their OtherOS feature, that was officially on the system with ability to play games and stuff, and then Sony forced those who REALLY depend on that feature to stay on that last firmware and never update beyond it. My friend did this; he really needs his OtherOS as he uses it for build server and other programming/hosting features, as well as using it as a Cell development kit figuring out stuff Cell does better than conventional x86_64 processors.

    TL;DR: There is not really a reason to complain about this: These more advanced and updatable machines are also easier than ever to hack; tell me when we hacked PS2 by simply loading up youtube or something. No, my PS2 has a goddarn CHIP SOLDERED ON IT so I can do more stuff with it than sony let me. Same for PS1, and so on.

    This is just how modding, homebrew and hacks just are; You make choice and you have beautiful choice. If nothing else; you purchase two systems. I have two PS3's myself. If you think homebrew, AND new official game releases are worth enough to you; You compromise by choosing one or the another, or get another 3DS system so it can do the another. Easy as peas.
    LordStarkiller and zoogie like this.
  15. chikenstew

    chikenstew Newbie

    As I have said in my post, I'm not really complaining...If this is what I have to go through to get to what I want, then so be it...But I just want to point out that (as affirmed also by sj33 above) the companies are making things harder and harder to hack with each new generation of console, who's to say that one day it won't become so hard that the niche of hackers become so small and most people just lose interest?

    Anyways, call me pessimistic if you want, but that's just my opinion.
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