There are only two genders. Change my mind.

[TotalInsanity4]

The gender vs sex thing has to do with sepparating sex as the biological thing and gender as the expected role in society, i.e. a social construct around sex, and hence the n genders derive from new constructs. I have to say however, that that is what I don't get: if you don't like the label society has put on to you, why fight for a new label instead of fighting not to be labelled?

That's one I actually CAN answer; it's because we as humans are hardwired to be a communal species, and the younger generation especially are trying to seek that out as they feel they're being estranged by the older ones. By creating names for a personal identity or quirk (in this case, gender, but it also applies to things like autism, sexuality, and various mental disorders that have symptoms in common with each other), you can group around people that share that same "label" and be confident that you will have a relatively shared experience. In that sense, the labels are not to create a target for themselves, nor is it to strictly make them feel special; it's more of an end to a journey of self-discovery

 

[BlueFox gui]

there are only 2 biological genders
you can born with dick or vagina
or there is a third thing?

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Also if some people who claim that social genders are a scientifically relevant phenomena would care to link sources, that would be great.

Well... The thing is, it's not, per se, or at least not relevant to the hard sciences. There are studies ongoing to determine the cause of gender dysphoria, because no one actually knows what causes it, just that HRT is effective at treating it, but the only people who really seem to care about researching social gender are socioligists, and that only appears to be because they're interested in the differences and similarities between cultures. So, I suppose the answer to that is no, if only because there's a relative lack of interest due to it not being medically pressing

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

there are only 2 biological genders
you can born with dick or vagina
or there is a third thing?

"Biological gender" is a misnomer, you're thinking of "sex"

 

[JellyPerson]

Last time I checked, gender meant the same thing as sex

 

[Seriel]

Last time I checked, gender meant the same thing as sex

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction

 

[BlueFox gui]

Well... The thing is, it's not, per se, or at least not relevant to the hard sciences. There are studies ongoing to determine the cause of gender dysphoria, because no one actually knows what causes it, just that HRT is effective at treating it, but the only people who really seem to care about researching social gender are socioligists, and that only appears to be because they're interested in the differences and similarities between cultures. So, I suppose the answer to that is no, if only because there's a relative lack of interest due to it not being medically pressing

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


"Biological gender" is a misnomer, you're thinking of "sex"

who cares
my statement can be right or wrong
but one thing for sure is
there IS something besides penis or vagina?
some people can born with half of both (it's rare)
but this is another story

 

[Stwert]

Well... The thing is, it's not, per se, or at least not relevant to the hard sciences. There are studies ongoing to determine the cause of gender dysphoria, because no one actually knows what causes it, just that HRT is effective at treating it, but the only people who really seem to care about researching social gender are socioligists, and that only appears to be because they're interested in the differences and similarities between cultures. So, I suppose the answer to that is no, if only because there's a relative lack of interest due to it not being medically pressing

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


"Biological gender" is a misnomer, you're thinking of "sex"

I always find it surprising that there are studies at all.
Just leave alone, let people do whatever the hell makes them happy. Don't make your life miserable in order to conform to a label.
This isn't a new phenomena, people experimenting with their sexuality has been around for about as long as people have.

Mind you, scientists will investigate anything to justify their pay cheque, remember the "why do cornflakes go soggy when you pour milk on them" ffs.

 

[JellyPerson]

From a purely scientific basis there are only two genders
But people are people so they want to be described as there gender being something other than those two

 

[FanmadeEndings]

I always find it surprising that there are studies at all.
Just leave alone, let people do whatever the hell makes them happy. Don't make your life miserable in order to conform to a label.
This isn't a new phenomena, people experimenting with their sexuality has been around for about as long as people have.

So you're saying a people who state that they identify as a certain gender are not labeling themselves and aren't putting themeslves in danger of creating a dogma as a part of their identity?
You can experiment with your sexuality without having a name for it.

Mind you, scientists will investigate anything to justify their pay cheque, remember the "why do cornflakes go soggy when you pour milk on them" ffs.

Great, another straw man, just what that thread needed. /s

 

[Stwert]

So you're saying a people who state that they identify as a certain gender are not labeling themselves and aren't putting themeslves in danger of creating a dogma as a part of their identity?
You can experiment with your sexuality without having a name for it.



Great, another straw man, just what that thread needed. /s

I'm saying why does everything have to be labelled. If you want to label everything you'd end up with a hell of a list. At the end of the day, what difference does it make who does what, to whom and with what.

 

[Daisy]

Such an old discussion to have, and usually pretty pointless too, as it's incredibly hard to change someone's opinions on these matters.

Even harder when you find yourself on both sides of the fence, as well. Sure, I only believe in 2 genders (although, idc about nonbinary people saying they're neither as long as they don't make up pronouns), but as far as I, or anyone else should be concerned, if someone is dysphoric and wants to be the opposite gender to their birth sex, then it should be allowed and supported. That said, the amount of 'transgender' people doing it with no dysphoria is harmful to both themselves and transgender people as a whole, and, honestly, I wish it would stop.

BTW, if you're one of the people saying that "a man is a man he cant cut off his dick and take hormones and be a woman XDD" then you are literally just a bigot, especially considering that someone doing such a thing does not hurt anyone in any way.

 

[FanmadeEndings]

I'm saying why does everything have to be labelled. If you want to label everything you'd end up with a hell of a list. At the end of the day, what difference does it make who does what, to whom and with what.

I agree. So are you against the idea of many social genders? More labels, they tend to make things more complicated. Right?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

BTW, if you're one of the people saying that "a man is a man he cant cut off his dick and take hormones and be a woman XDD" then you are literally just a bigot, especially considering that someone doing such a thing does not hurt anyone in any way.

How is observing a factual state bigotry? I'm not saying you should hate those individuals for it, but the statement that you can not change DNA in a way a person could completely change gender in a biological sense is factual truth.

Edit: Overread the "dysphoric" part. My bad. Makes a lot more sense now.

 

[Stwert]

I agree. So are you against the idea of many social genders? More labels, they tend to make things more complicated. Right?


--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------




How is observing a factual state bigotry? I'm not saying you should hate those individuals for it, but the statement that you can not change DNA in a way a person could completely change gender in a biological sense is factual truth.

I may be an old and past it dude compared to all you whippersnappers on here. But I’m still open minded.


I’m not against anything at all. I’m perfectly happy for people to express themselves in any way they want. I don’t care who wants to do what to whatever other gender. I have no problem with a person having gender reassessment, if you’re x trapped in x body, hell yeah, fix it. We should be an open and accepting society.


But yes, I think too many labels just complicate matters more than they need to be. As I see it there are three basic groups for each gender, and they are the same.


Boy like girl.

Boy likes boy.

Boy will partner with anyone.


Girl likes boy.

Girl likes girl.

Girl will partner with anyone.


There may well be sub-sections of those where people have sex changes, or whatever. But at the end of the day, those six groups are what it all boils down to. Why does it need to be more complex than that? Life is a complicated enough thing as it is.

Or maybe I’m just too old and out of date. I’ll ask the wife, she’s 10 years younger than me

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I may be an old and past it dude compared to all you whippersnappers on here. But I’m still open minded.


I’m not against anything at all. I’m perfectly happy for people to express themselves in any way they want. I don’t care who wants to do what to whatever other gender. I have no problem with a person having gender reassessment, if you’re x trapped in x body, hell yeah, fix it. We should be an open and accepting society.


But yes, I think too many labels just complicate matters more than they need to be. As I see it there are three basic groups for each gender, and they are the same.


Boy like girl.

Boy likes boy.

Boy will partner with anyone.


Girl likes boy.

Girl likes girl.

Girl will partner with anyone.


There may well be sub-sections of those where people have sex changes, or whatever. But at the end of the day, those six groups are what it all boils down to. Why does it need to be more complex than that? Life is a complicated enough thing as it is.

Or maybe I’m just too old and out of date. I’ll ask the wife, she’s 10 years younger than me

I'd say there are five, not three (add "<gender> likes no one romantically or sexually and <gender> likes anyone presenting as certain gender(s), but isn't necessarily sexually attracted to genetalia within those groups), although we're now getting into the territory of sexuality rather than gender

 

[erikas]

As a concept gender is meaningless, theres biological sex, then theres how you chose to conduct yourself. Biological sex is real and while each individual does not strictly conform to things that are considered male or female, there are clear differences between then when you look at trends. Gender is a poor attempt to deny that the sexes have biological differences that express themselves both physically and mentally.

 

[TheMrIron2]

Since LGBT labelling was mentioned in this thread, I may as well mention that as a bisexual person I'm really confused about the whole movement. Your orientation shouldn't define you or change you as a person, if you ask me.

The issue I have is that the community can't seem to decide what it wants. On one hand, they're just asking to be treated normally. On the other hand, they have their own flag but not only that, their own parades and festivals. Where's the "Straight Pride" parades?

 

[FanmadeEndings]

Since LGBT labelling was mentioned in this thread, I may as well mention that as a bisexual person I'm really confused about the whole movement. Your orientation shouldn't define you or change you as a person, if you ask me.

The issue I have is that the community can't seem to decide what it wants. On one hand, they're just asking to be treated normally. On the other hand, they have their own flag but not only that, their own parades and festivals. Where's the "Straight Pride" parades?

Also a bisexual and I completely agree. Although, as you mentioned, my sexuality really shouldn't matter for my arguments.

 

[Navonod]

Since LGBT labelling was mentioned in this thread, I may as well mention that as a bisexual person I'm really confused about the whole movement. Your orientation shouldn't define you or change you as a person, if you ask me.

The issue I have is that the community can't seem to decide what it wants. On one hand, they're just asking to be treated normally. On the other hand, they have their own flag but not only that, their own parades and festivals. Where's the "Straight Pride" parades?

My boyfriend made a good point about the Straight pride deal. Being straight is the norm and until recently no one was attacked for being straight so that's why there are gay pride parades. Basically saying we're here we're queer get over it. Honestly as a predominantly straight guy I don't think we need straight pride parades. But no one is stopping you from putting one together.

 

[DeslotlCL]

My boyfriend made a good point about the Straight pride deal. Being straight is the norm and until recently no one was attacked for being straight so that's why there are gay pride parades. Basically saying we're here we're queer get over it. Honestly as a predominantly straight guy I don't think we need straight pride parades. But no one is stopping you from putting one together.

Wait, you say you are straight but mentioned a boyfriend...

 

[TotalInsanity4]

My boyfriend made a good point about the Straight pride deal. Being straight is the norm and until recently no one was attacked for being straight so that's why there are gay pride parades. Basically saying we're here we're queer get over it. Honestly as a predominantly straight guy I don't think we need straight pride parades. But no one is stopping you from putting one together.

I agree wholeheartedly with that. There's also the factor of historical systemic oppression; the same reason why "Black Lives Matter" and "Black power" is acceptable, while "white power" is... What it is...