The Nintendo DS Scene is Underrated

[DragonMals]

I'm going to say it right now: I don't know if it's me and how I haven't been interacting with the homebrew/hacking community is, but I strongly believe that the Nintendo DS Scene (not counting the DSI and the 3DS; only the phat DS and the DS lite) is extremely underrated. While I have been tinkering around with my DS Lite with the flashcart that I have, it made me realize: Why does nobody want to touch the support for this console?

We have emulators like SNemulDS (or whatever it's called) that can barely run most of the SNES' Library, GenesisDS having a decent amount but games that are the size of Sonic3&K and above don't work, NES Emulation being alright GBA.... That's the only one that i don't know of.

Now I understand, you can have all of the benefits of the DS more with tbe consoles that came after it, but all I just want for instance is to play GBA games without having to get an ever drive or anything like that. I mean, I do have a flash art thsg exclusively plays GBA games but I don't even want to know the compatibility there because games like Sonic Advance 1 and 2 (not 3 becsuse that one works as intended), and Monkey Ball Jr doesn't even want to boot into the game at all.

Maybe that's where GBARunner2 comes to the kick: playing GBA games natively through what the DS has to offer. But something that I want to ask myself is: why is there less support given on the Dzd ones rather than the DSi/3DS? Maybe I don't know the differences between how they work (I would like to know though) and how it's a little bit difficult to ensure great compatibility with the DS by itself or a lack of people to fix compatibility issues, but... Eh, idk.


I do apologise if this sounds a little bit weird to read, I did make this when I was half-tired half awake lol. If you do have any questions though, I will like to hear.

 

[RocketRobz]

Plenty of new things have been done for the DS scene lately.

B4DS (nds-bootstrap for flashcards) runs DS games on any flashcards, even those which don't natively support DS games.
Alongside DS games, you can run plenty of DSiWare games on DS Phat/Lite via either TWLMenu++ or nds-bootstrap forwarders.

As for GBA games...
GBARunner2 on DSi/3DS uses the extra memory provided by the DSi, which is why a bit more games work.
GBARunner3 is being worked on, with the aim for balanced compatibility across all DS family consoles. So far, with lots of games working and audio issues fixed, the future seems to be bright for GBARunner3.

As for Genesis games, you can run larger games using both PicoDriveTWL and an Expansion Pak. Unfortunately, PicoDriveTWL doesn't support playing audio though.

 

[DragonMals]

Incredible to see the progress that the scene has been making! Although I do have a few questions to ask...

you can run plenty of DSiWare games on DS Phat/Lite via either TWLMenu++ or nds-bootstrap forwarders.

I remember adding TWMenu to my flashcart (M3i Zero with M3Sskurs installed), but I have forgotten how to do that again. It it's possible, am I able to get instructions on how to do this?

GBARunner3 is being worked on, with the aim for balanced compatibility across all DS family consoles. So far, with lots of games working and audio issues fixed, the future seems to be bright for GBARunner3.

I didn't even know that there was a new and upcoming version of a 3rd GBA Runner! I'll be looking forward to that, but for now, I assume that getting an GBA ever drive and playing that on the DS is technically the best way to play GBA games on a DS?

you can run larger games using both PicoDriveTWL and an Expansion Pak. Unfortunately, PicoDriveTWL doesn't support playing audio though.

And why is this? I assume this is due to the limitations of DS PicoDrive?

 

[JuanMena]

The DS scene was revolutionary back in the day. Nowadays it's very outdated and, like you said, underrated for people that didn't presenced it's development.

Reason why DS scene was awesome, is because you had a lot of apps for flashcards that turned a DS into a "smartphone".
Heck, you could even register in one site and use your DS to call people via Wi-Fi connection.

The DS had Organizers, Internet Browsers, Media Players, eBook readers, Text Editors, PDF readers, LUA, BASIC, Texas Instruments (Graphic) Calculators, Digital Art software, Animation software, Music/MIDI composers, Instant Messaging services... and of course, Emulators.

Nowadays there are gadgets that does that better than a DS.

Back in the day, I would jump from playing Gameboy/NES/SNES games to play Mario Kart DS, Pokemon, Zelda, to make a Digital Painting with Colors!, do homework with DSOrganize and attempt to compose music with NitroTrax and KORG DS.
Never tried the free phone service though.

 

[DragonMals]

Reason why DS scene was awesome, is because you had a lot of apps for flashcards that turned a DS into a "smartphone".
Heck, you could even register in one site and use your DS to call people via Wi-Fi connection.

I dint even know that the DS was even capable of doing this in the first place. I guess that's becsuse I was born in 2006, and in terms of how I was with the internet I didn't have much access to it until I've gotten my first iPhone.

Back in the day, I would jump from playing Gameboy/NES/DS games to play Mario Kart DS, Pokemon, Zelda, to make a Digital Painting with Colors!, do homework with DSOrganize and attempt to compose music with NitroTrax and KORG DS.
Never tried the free phone service though

I also didn't know that the original DS had colors! I'm only used to the 3DS and now the Switch having it. I don't know about the WiiU though.

 

[JuanMena]

Forgot to mention, learning a new language? Of course, the DS had licensed software and homebrew dictionaries/translators.

 

[impeeza]

There is any DS scene?

 

[RocketRobz]

Incredible to see the progress that the scene has been making! Although I do have a few questions to ask...

I remember adding TWMenu to my flashcart (M3i Zero with M3Sskurs installed), but I have forgotten how to do that again. It it's possible, am I able to get instructions on how to do this?

https://wiki.ds-homebrew.com/twilightmenu/installing-flashcard

I didn't even know that there was a new and upcoming version of a 3rd GBA Runner! I'll be looking forward to that, but for now, I assume that getting an GBA ever drive and playing that on the DS is technically the best way to play GBA games on a DS?

Yes. That, or you can use a SuperCard MiniSD, if you want to use TWLMenu++'s GUI to launch GBA games. You'll encounter some slowdown in a few games with the SuperCard though.

And why is this? I assume this is due to the limitations of DS PicoDrive?

Yes.

 

[DragonMals]

Yes. That, or you can use a SuperCard MiniSD, if you want to use TWLMenu++'s GUI to launch GBA
games. You'll encounter some slowdown in a few games with the SuperCard though.

While I understand the limits of what I have personally speaking, I guess my only option is to wait for GBARunner 3 for it to come out. I could try using Runner2, but at the moment I do have other (and better) options to play GBA games with. Still great to see that the scene is getting a lot better than what I remember!

Forgot to mention, learning a new language? Of course, the DS had licensed software and homebrew dictionaries/translators.

Okay, was the DS supposed to be the definitive console or something? Why does it seem to me that it can do hell of a lot more than what a PS2 can do? I mean the only difference that I can find is the games and the fact that a PS2 can run Linux

 

[mrparrot2]

As a kid without those phancy phones/palmtops, my Nintendo DS lite was quite an amazing piece of hardware to own.

Connecting to wi-fi and MSN Messenger? Yes, It did that.

How about a lookup on Wikipedia on some subject? Yes, it did that.

Chat on IRC? Yes, It did that.

Read e-books? Quite a chalenge on that screen, but you could do that.

Mp3 player and portable vídeo player (If you converted then to a format that Moonshell could play It)? Yes, It did that.

Everything above was possible because of the massive amount of homebrews the DS community provided.

And a portable vídeo game, as designed

 

[Technicmaster0]

Okay, was the DS supposed to be the definitive console or something? Why does it seem to me that it can do hell of a lot more than what a PS2 can do? I mean the only difference that I can find is the games and the fact that a PS2 can run Linux

Personally I think that the DS hit a very special spot. It was released "late enough" to dip a toe into the online world and together with the touchscreen it is a device with much potential. On the other side, smartphones didn't exist in the prime time of the DS. Many things that today smartphones are used for, needed another device in the past and the DS perfectly filled that gap.
A point that relates to this is the amount of active homebrew devs. The internet was advanced enough for people to learn about DS development online, but people also had interest in developing for the DS because it was a widespread mobile device. Again, there were no smartphones back then so developing for an appstore was not an option back then.
Also, security was circumvented pretty fast which means that there was much interest in development for the DS when it was a current gen handheld. This means that there is a wide variety of homebrew (the already mentioned apps but also many games) that was specifically written for the DS. Some might not be usable with twilightmenu++ but if you own an older card make sure to check some of them out. There are games like DSCraft, fireworlds, lone wolf, scribble jump, video games hero, everlasting TH, Eurotunnel, Without Escape, Bob's Game and many more worth playing.

 

[4d1xlaan]

Omg bob's game. Those are certainly words you wouldnt expect to hear in 2024

 

[church_foster]

Probably because only cool things you can do requires hardmodding and soldering the console. I'm only looking at ways to capture video output, but it requires tremendous soldering skills. Still mad props to loopy for making it happen.

 

[Kwyjor]

I strongly believe that the Nintendo DS Scene (not counting the DSI and the 3DS; only the phat DS and the DS lite) is extremely underrated. While I have been tinkering around with my DS Lite with the flashcart that I have, it made me realize: Why does nobody want to touch the support for this console?

When you say "The DS Scene is Underrated", you make it sound like "the people making homebrew for the DS are doing good work that is not widely recoginized" and not "the DS is being neglected by homebrew developers".

I mean, I do have a flash art thsg exclusively plays GBA games but I don't even want to know the compatibility there because games like Sonic Advance 1 and 2 (not 3 becsuse that one works as intended), and Monkey Ball Jr doesn't even want to boot into the game at all.

I can't imagine you're the first person who ever wanted to run those from a GBA flashcart. Most likely, you just need to load them into NOR RAM instead of PS RAM.

Probably because only cool things you can do requires hardmodding and soldering the console. I'm only looking at ways to capture video output, but it requires tremendous soldering skills. Still mad props to loopy for making it happen.

The only mod I can think of for the DS/DS Lite is video out, and that recently became surprisingly straightforward for the DS Lite.

 

[DragonMals]

When you say "The DS Scene is Underrated", you make it sound like "the people making homebrew for the DS are doing good work that is not widely recoginized" and not "the DS is being neglected by homebrew developers".

I am not really good with wording, but promise me that the right way to say it is what I've intended for me to say.

I can't imagine you're the first person who ever wanted to run those from a GBA flashcart.

It's a DS Flashcart, not a GBA one. More specifically, it's called the "iPlayer"? It's a multimedia Flashcart that can so happen to play GBA games, too. Although the compatibility is very off with more advanced titles (no pun intended)

 

[Kwyjor]

It's a DS Flashcart, not a GBA one. More specifically, it's called the "iPlayer"? It's a multimedia Flashcart that can so happen to play GBA games, too. Although the compatibility is very off with more advanced titles (no pun intended)

Well, it's hardly reasonable to expect developers to lavish attention on GBA emulation on the DS when perfect compatibility is achieved through using a GBA flashcart. I agree the EZFlash Omega or an Everdrive are probably expensive options, but something like the EZ Flash IV really works just as well and has been available for many years now.

Did the original developers of the iPlayer intend it to be used for GBA games? I thought the DSTWO, with its extra processing power, was the only cart with such official support.

 

[Janni9009]

Well, it's hardly reasonable to expect developers to lavish attention on GBA emulation on the DS when perfect compatibility is achieved through using a GBA flashcart. I agree the EZFlash Omega or an Everdrive are probably expensive options, but something like the EZ Flash IV really works just as well and has been available for many years now.

Did the original developers of the iPlayer intend it to be used for GBA games? I thought the DSTWO, with its extra processing power, was the only cart with such official support.

GBARunner2 (DSL Enhanced fork for flashcarts) and the test builds for GBAR3 exist, which are pretty damn good and require no special cart hardware.
There were however at least 3 cart hardware emulators... NDS-GBA for iPlayer, the proprietary thing the EX4DS uses, and TempGBA (previously NDSGBA) for DSTWO. And none of them are particularly good. Easily beaten by GBAR2/3. But hey, at least the DSTWO still gets some credit for having CATSFC, the only remotely usable SNES emu on DS (still not great).
P.S. an EZ4 is harder to find and usually as expensive as a base Omega now, and loads slow as hell compared to it, and lacks RTC, and uses SRAM (most needing a battery replacement now, oh, and the battery is a soldered CR2020), so it's really not a good option anymore.

 

[Xdqwerty]

Omg bob's game. Those are certainly words you wouldnt expect to hear in 2024

Didnt it get cancelled?

 

[Tarmfot]

Personally I think that the DS hit a very special spot. It was released "late enough" to dip a toe into the online world and together with the touchscreen it is a device with much potential. On the other side, smartphones didn't exist in the prime time of the DS. Many things that today smartphones are used for, needed another device in the past and the DS perfectly filled that gap.
A point that relates to this is the amount of active homebrew devs. The internet was advanced enough for people to learn about DS development online, but people also had interest in developing for the DS because it was a widespread mobile device. Again, there were no smartphones back then so developing for an appstore was not an option back then.
Also, security was circumvented pretty fast which means that there was much interest in development for the DS when it was a current gen handheld. This means that there is a wide variety of homebrew (the already mentioned apps but also many games) that was specifically written for the DS. Some might not be usable with twilightmenu++ but if you own an older card make sure to check some of them out. There are games like DSCraft, fireworlds, lone wolf, scribble jump, video games hero, everlasting TH, Eurotunnel, Without Escape, Bob's Game and many more worth playing.

Having a Tapwave Zodiac years later,

I dreamed that Nintendo DS was launched with palmos-like applications by default.

 

[4d1xlaan]

Didnt it get cancelled?

yeah, but it was also a big meme for a long time