The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom - overview trailer



The next Zelda game is around the corner, and Nintendo is eager to show off more of The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom ahead of the game's launch later this month. A 5-minute overview trailer shows off the biggest feature of the game: using the Tri-Rod to create echoes of items and monsters. Zelda also has the ability to bind objects to her movement, so you can move larger obstacles to solve puzzles and reach secrets. There will be sidequests, equipment that changes your abilities, and the Still World with large dungeons and bosses. The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom releases on the Nintendo Switch on September 26th.
 

The Real Jdbye

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Pleeeease stop experimenting after EoW, Nintendo; I beg you.

This is going to be a hard pass for me, as it's not what I want from Legend of Zelda.
2D Zelda has always been sort of experimental. Zelda 2, Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, the DS titles, ALBW, Tri Force Heroes. About every other 2D Zelda could be considered experimental. At least they're trying new things, which sometimes works out and sometimes doesn't. But that's how you innovate. They can't all be huge successes.
 

Avalyn

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Except that I've never asked for Zelda in EoW to be replaced by Link, unlike "the other half" who demand female protags be added to games. Myself, I just don't play games with no male protags; I don't demand they be added, or that they be modded in or anything. I just simply ignore such games.

I mean, I do get annoyed when male protags are replaced or overshadowed by female ones due to DEI initiatives - such as Alan Wake 2, which has a larger focus on the female SWAT officer instead of Alan himself, or The Last of Us 2 ingloriously killing off Joel just to prop up Abby, or that Battlefield WW2 game a couple years ago depicting a mother and daughter duo sabotaging Axis supplies when historically it was a group of trained men who courageously did that - but I think that's justified.

Just as Ligeia said on Page 1, the issue isn't that female PCs exist - it's that they're often forced in these days to satisfy diversity checklists and the extremely vocal "progressive" crowd (who largely don't even play the games regardless - they're just so annoyingly loud that companies have to bend to them or risk nonsense negative PR). That's what I get frustrated with; I don't get frustrated that female PCs, in general, exist.
I am curious now: Do you limit yourself to solely playing games with male, human protagonists? Where does this "immersion" boundary go for you? Is playing as Donkey Kong okay? (he is a monkey after all, but he is male). Sonic? Astro Bot? How about Yoshi? Not sure what Yoshi is, but he/she lays eggs...
 
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AkiraKurusu

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I am curious now: Do you limit yourself to solely playing games with male, human protagonists? Where does this "immersion" boundary go for you? Is playing as Donkey Kong okay? (he is a monkey after all, but he is male). Sonic? Astro Bot? How about Yoshi? Not sure what Yoshi is, but he/she lays eggs...
As I said before, I find Ōkami to be a wonderful game, and while Amaterasu is female...she's a wolf, so it doesn't bother me.
Furthermore, I find the Portal duology to be hella fun, as it's first-person and Chell's gender is almost never referred to, making immersion much easier.

Otherwise, male protags are what I look for. I had fun with Star Fox 64 3D, which had the male Fox McCloud as the PC. I don't like Sonic games, funnily enough, because the gameplay never hooked me. Same with Donkey Kong, honestly. Yoshi...I did have some fun with Yoshi's Woolly World - and, er, Yoshi's always referred to with male pronouns; you're probably thinking of Birdo, who uses female ones.
Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective is great fun, and that has a ghost as the protagonist who is actually a cat..
I also like Bloons Tower Defense, which has monkeys and non-living towers. Spyro 1 & 2 Reignited are great games.

Basically, if the protag is a dude - whether human or not - I find it easier to relate to him. If it's first-person and gender is never brought up, it's easier to picture myself in that position. If it's a non-anthropomorphised animal, it's easier for me to be immersed.
 

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I am curious now: Do you limit yourself to solely playing games with male, human protagonists? Where does this "immersion" boundary go for you? Is playing as Donkey Kong okay? (he is a monkey after all, but he is male). Sonic? Astro Bot? How about Yoshi? Not sure what Yoshi is, but he/she lays eggs...
As I said before, I find Ōkami to be a wonderful game, and while Amaterasu is female...she's a wolf, so it doesn't bother me.
Furthermore, I find the Portal duology to be hella fun, as it's first-person and Chell's gender is almost never referred to, making immersion much easier.

Otherwise, male protags are what I look for. I had fun with Star Fox 64 3D, which had the male Fox McCloud as the PC. I don't like Sonic games, funnily enough, because the gameplay never hooked me. Same with Donkey Kong, honestly. Yoshi...I did have some fun with Yoshi's Woolly World - and, er, Yoshi's always referred to with male pronouns; you're probably thinking of Birdo, who uses female ones.
Ghost Trick: Phantom Detective is great fun, and that has a ghost as the protagonist who is actually a cat..
I also like Bloons Tower Defense, which has monkeys and non-living towers. Spyro 1 & 2 Reignited are great games.

Basically, if the protag is a dude - whether human or not - I find it easier to relate to him. If it's first-person and gender is never brought up, it's easier to picture myself in that position. If it's a non-anthropomorphised animal, it's easier for me to be immersed.
No, no. He's got a point.
It's always easy to associate yourself with a mc of the same gender.
Games, mostly based on stories and books, also do the same things.
To feel it more games even give you a choices, like in Mass Effect 1-3 where you enjoy story and become Shepard.
Andromeda was strange in many ways, strange looking characters, stupid dialogs, stupid and strange companions.
Like a game it was not bad, but you feel strange in dialogs because of it.
You would not read romance for women, but would read story with part of roman for a man
 
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Avalyn

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I guess I just can't understand this mindset. You find it easier relating to Sonic than a female of your own species? Do you only watch tv shows or movies with male protagonists as well because you can't relate to the female ones?
 

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I guess I just can't understand this mindset. You find it easier relating to Sonic than a female of your own species? Do you only watch tv shows or movies with male protagonists as well because you can't relate to the female ones?
You know, maybe. I not remember when I watched a film with fmc.
Last as I remember was Terminator, killBill and Alien, that's all.
I watched them only bcs of fantasy genre and because I know that they was good.
I check trailers for a few and know that they are not for me: Mulan (bad), Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, Star Wars: The Last Jedi (bad), Amélie (bad) and etc.
I remember film with fmc that was injected with big dose of drag and she become smart and evolved from human (don't remember name, but film was good)
So, yeah. I don't watch films with them IF they not good.

Oh, it was Lucy:
https://www.imdb.com/video/vi4114984217/?playlistId=tt2872732&ref_=tt_ov_vi

But this looks like fun game, for me even better than totk
 
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64bitmodels

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The 'traditional' formula, yes, because each game receives their own spin on it. Sure, the overall high-level design between Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, The Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess may be similar, but they each add their own unique quirks to it - Majora's Mask had the masks and three-day cycle; The Wind Waker had sailing and counterattacks; Twilight Princess had Wolf Link and the Hidden Skills.
Each game also has its own arsenal of equipment gained through exploration, too, to make them even more unique.
A "spin" on the formula is not enough. There is a base level of similarity between OOT, MM, WW, TP and SS. The time management in Majoras mask does not hide the fact it is a 3D Zelda game and a sequel to OOT.
The wind sailing in WW does not hide the fact it is a 3D Zelda game.

These games shared many items and mechanics. All of them have boomerangs, bows, chuchus, instruments you play to make shit happen, defensive and reactive combat, and odd, clunky quests that get you into the dungeons.

You can prefer this formula but just be honest when you say you want stagnation. You are fine with the way 3D Zelda used to be.
 
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GengarsGhostlyGiggles

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A "spin" on the formula is not enough. There is a base level of similarity between OOT, MM, WW, TP and SS. The time management in Majoras mask does not hide the fact it is a 3D Zelda game and a sequel to OOT.
The wind sailing in WW does not hide the fact it is a 3D Zelda game.

These games shared many items and mechanics. All of them have boomerangs, bows, chuchus, instruments you play to make shit happen, defensive and reactive combat, and odd, clunky quests that get you into the dungeons.

You can prefer this formula but just be honest when you say you want stagnation. You are fine with the way 3D Zelda used to be.
What a completely dishonest take to say that's stagnation.
 
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Looks really interesting.
Not my cup of tea though.

The simplistic approach of legacy zeldas wasn't simplist.
It was initially a response to 80's overly complicated RPGs and dungeon crawlers.

Adding 'complexity' to a zelda is définitely a step back, so long Takashi Tezuka.
Post automatically merged:

2D Zelda has always been sort of experimental. Zelda 2, Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, the DS titles, ALBW, Tri Force Heroes. About every other 2D Zelda could be considered experimental. At least they're trying new things, which sometimes works out and sometimes doesn't. But that's how you innovate. They can't all be huge successes.

Novelty or nepotism tainted with cost effectiveness ?

Zelda 2 (while exotic) was 100% Miyamoto's misunderstanding of the formula.
Four swords and Heroes are Aonouma dumb and almost autistic urging to add multiplayer in an adventure game (which has always spectacularly failed) like he did in his first game Marvelous: Mōhitotsu no Takarajima.

This dude almost killed the serie sales-wise all by himself, finally the young generation seems to like the Fuyibayashi take, whether we like it or not.
 
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AkiraKurusu

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A "spin" on the formula is not enough. There is a base level of similarity between OOT, MM, WW, TP and SS. The time management in Majoras mask does not hide the fact it is a 3D Zelda game and a sequel to OOT.
The wind sailing in WW does not hide the fact it is a 3D Zelda game.

These games shared many items and mechanics. All of them have boomerangs, bows, chuchus, instruments you play to make shit happen, defensive and reactive combat, and odd, clunky quests that get you into the dungeons.

You can prefer this formula but just be honest when you say you want stagnation. You are fine with the way 3D Zelda used to be.
How is it "stagnation" when the intricacies of the 'traditional' formula have been shaken up time and time again?

Majora's Mask plays almost completely differently than Ocarina of Time, despite using many of the same assets - the 3-day time limit and masks provide a fresh take on it, as now you have to balance time management with dungeon exploration, all while helping (and getting to know) the various NPCs scattered across Termina. That's extremely different to OoT, which as the first-ever "3D Zelda" took a safer approach; there was no temporal pressure, and while the concept of two different ages was interesting it mostly kept the same gameplay (just restricting a section of equipment to each age).

The Wind Waker, on the other hand, allows for almost free exploration across the Great Sea, after the first few dungeons; it's the best implementation of exploration, I feel, being the closest to 'open-world' without falling for that genre's horrendous trappings and failures. The islands are all unique in shape, making it impossible to truly get lost, and there's no stupid stamina wheel or weapon fragility; there's also plenty of things hidden across the islands and enemy subs and watchtowers. The art style is beautiful, even today, the OST is brilliant, and counterattacks add a fresh element to the basic (but solid) swordplay.

Initially people didn't like the severe shift in TWW's art style, so Nintendo then made Twilight Princess - which, while clearly mimicking elements from OoT, stands on its own two feet by having a unique version of Hyrule and some of the best dungeons in LoZ history. The Arbiter's Grounds are mechanically similar to the Forest Temple, for example, in that you need to hunt down four Poes in order to reach the innermost section of the dungeon, but it remains distinct by incorporating both Wolf Link and regular Link into its puzzles, and having the Spinner as a dungeon item to cross sand and traverse large gaps (and activate devices, too).
The City in the Sky is a unique dungeon, having no real OoT counterpart, and its complexity is something I love; even now, I have to think my way through this one, and the final boss is honestly one of my favourites in LoZ. The Lakebed Temple is another confusing water dungeon, similarly to the Water Temple, but remains distinct enough to have its own identity.

Nintendo also greatly expanded 3D combat in TP, as well, with the Hidden Skills, having such a varied arsenal that no other 3D LoZ game has ever reached (it was simplified in Skyward Sword, then removed in BotW and TotK). Oh, and the existence of Wolf Link also helps 'shake up' the formula, in a similar (but more limited) fashion to Majora's masks.


Oh, and not every game has instruments, either - notably, Twilight Princess largely lacks one, with wolf Howling Stones only being used a couple of times (mainly to learn new Hidden Skills, but also to unlock the Sacred Grove the first time). Other than that, there's grass you can blow to summon Epona or a helpful owl...but they're minimally-used.
Similarly, ChuChus exist in BotW and TotK too - I'm guessing you meant Bombchus, the explosives that travel forwards before exploding? They're only in OoT and MM, and are rarely ever needed for puzzle-solving - and they're dropped in TWW and TP.



Oh, and lastly - "odd, clunky quests that get you into the dungeons"? The story beats that lead into each 'traditional' game's dungeons are far better than the actual "odd, clunky quests" present in BotW and TotK, which largely lack objective map markers and utilise the "clunky" open-world traversal mechanics.

We'll never agree on this, you and I; I just hope I've made my viewpoint clear.
 

64bitmodels

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How is it "stagnation" when the intricacies of the 'traditional' formula have been shaken up time and time again?
Bad choice of words on my part

The issue isn't that they're shaking up the "traditional formula" the issue is that they were still abiding to it very strictly. Adding a timer changes the way you're playing 3d Zelda but it doesn't change the fact you are still just playing 3D Zelda.

Many quirks carry over from title to title. Shaking things up doesn't matter bcz it's the same style of game just with tweaks and adjustments.

The simple fact is that a style change like BOTW was always going yo happen because the games were still 3D Zelda.

Like for instance the "expanded combat" in TP. All the sword moves they add doesn't change the fact that combat flow and pace is dictated by what the  enemy does and not what  you do. You still aren't gonna damage a guy with a shield up and you can't just try and force an opening- you have to wait for one. As a result there are not many situations where those new moves are usable. Compare that to BOTW where you can approach enemies any way you like, even with the slower sword combat there's still more options to encounters.

There's a rigidity to how the old 3D Zelda formula did things that ultimately ended up to its demise, and it's not limited to the combat- it is found in many aspects of the game mechanics. They didn't address these limitations with the old formula and in the end the whole thing was scrapped.

Now this doesn't mean I agree with all of the open world design decisions but I fail to see that you'd want the series to keep being like the way it was with little change. Almost every franchise has massively changed up its gameplay formula, even Mario. Why want Zelda to be exempt from that?
 
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