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The next Zelda game is around the corner, and Nintendo is eager to show off more of The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom ahead of the game's launch later this month. A 5-minute overview trailer shows off the biggest feature of the game: using the Tri-Rod to create echoes of items and monsters. Zelda also has the ability to bind objects to her movement, so you can move larger obstacles to solve puzzles and reach secrets. There will be sidequests, equipment that changes your abilities, and the Still World with large dungeons and bosses. The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom releases on the Nintendo Switch on September 26th.

 

[Avalyn]

This ! And thank you for stating in such an elaborate yet concise way everything that went wrong with the Zelda franchise.


The issue is not playing as a woman. It's this insane obsession with replacing every male protagonist with a female protagonist. People have no problem playing as a woman when it feels natural, like in the Metroid series or the dozens of other games having female protagonists that are not just there to follow trends and tick boxes.

Well I am happy they are trying new things out and evolving. Conservative minds will be conservative. Fortunately, there are plenty of clones out there imitating the old Zelda style if you want a repeat of things you've already played

So you are saying the issue is not playing as a woman - but also that is is? Zelda has always been a part of these games though. The games have literally always been called the Legend of ZELDA. It's not like they just took some random character and shoved her in there. I'm really excited for this, more than I was for the Links Awakening remake.

 

[AkiraKurusu]

Well I am happy they are trying new things out and evolving. Conservative minds will be conservative. Fortunately, there are plenty of clones out there imitating the old Zelda style if you want a repeat of things you've already played

Zelda has always been a part of these games though. The games have literally always been called the Legend of ZELDA. It's not like they just took some random character and shoved her in there. I'm really excited for this, more than I was for the Links Awakening remake.

The problem with "clones", as you call them, is that very few of them have the same enjoyment and gameplay as 'traditional' Legend of Zelda. The only one I've really enjoyed is Ōkami, as that wonderful game has a masterful mix of Celestial Brush Techniques incorporated into both combat and puzzle design, the dungeons are well-made and memorable, and the characters and story are fantastic too.
Other than Ōkami, though, I can't think of any games that quite hit the same resonance as old Legend of Zelda; they either change the combat into something I don't like, don't have a gameplay hook, or lack interesting characters or narrative.

I have heard good things about 3D Dot Game Heroes for the PS3...but that's quite old now, not available on modern platforms, and I can't find a good ROM/ISO of it online. I've tried Golden Sun, but that really didn't interest me much, unfortunately, and it's a JRPG instead of third-person adventure.

Due to the lack of good "clones" mimicking the 'traditional' formula, I really want Legend of Zelda itself to return to that amazing standard instead of utterly wasting its potential with these wholly-unenjoyable experiments.

 

[zebrone]

No it has not. A youtuber lied about it because he was tired of making Switch 2 videos. He based his claim off of a fake 4chan post showing trailer screenshots in a Ryujinx window.

no nintendolife claimed it has leaked with proof. The owner has started a private streaming to demonstrate have it.

 

[Avalyn]

The problem with "clones", as you call them, is that very few of them have the same enjoyment and gameplay as 'traditional' Legend of Zelda. The only one I've really enjoyed is Ōkami, as that wonderful game has a masterful mix of Celestial Brush Techniques incorporated into both combat and puzzle design, the dungeons are well-made and memorable, and the characters and story are fantastic too.
Other than Ōkami, though, I can't think of any games that quite hit the same resonance as old Legend of Zelda; they either change the combat into something I don't like, don't have a gameplay hook, or lack interesting characters or narrative.

I have heard good things about 3D Dot Game Heroes for the PS3...but that's quite old now, not available on modern platforms, and I can't find a good ROM/ISO of it online. I've tried Golden Sun, but that really didn't interest me much, unfortunately, and it's a JRPG instead of third-person adventure.

Due to the lack of good "clones" mimicking the 'traditional' formula, I really want Legend of Zelda itself to return to that amazing standard instead of utterly wasting its potential with these wholly-unenjoyable experiments.

I don't find "that amazing standard" amazing anymore - been there done that. Like I said, the vast majority finds the new Zelda games enjoyable. I find the open world games are some of the best games I have ever played Love the old ones too though. Just glad they are trying new things out and doing it so well. Also.... by calling them "wholly unenjoyable experiments", it really shows you don't understand how well crafted and designed they are. Truly amazing, thought out and finely tuned games - which means not experimental.

For conservative people like you, there are plenty of other games available on steam: Tunic, Hyper Light Drifter, Anodyne, Unsighted, Death's Door, Darksiders - and okami like you mentioned - the list is vaaaast. Look around and enjoy! Or play some of the old ones again. There's a nice list here for you https://store.steampowered.com/curator/38077272-Zelda-like/

 

[ldeveraux]

Looks delightfully generic.

 

[AkiraKurusu]

I don't find "that amazing standard" amazing anymore - been there done that. Like I said, the vast majority finds the new Zelda games enjoyable. I find the open world games are some of the best games I have ever played Love the old ones too though. Just glad they are trying new things out and doing it so well.

For conservative people like you, there are plenty of other games available on steam: Tunic, Hyper Light Drifter, Anodyne, Unsighted, Death's Door - and okami like you mentioned - the list is vaaaast. Look around and enjoy! Or play some of the old ones again.

I was thinking of Tunic before when writing my previous post, actually, but I couldn't remember its name.
However, it's not quite the same as Legend of Zelda - like, I don't like how it has a stamina gauge (ugh), nor do I like the lack of instructions or direction (indeed, the lack of proper direction is another reason why I don't like BotW, TotK, Minecraft, and other games. I like having set goals and destinations to work towards). The fact most of the text in Tunic is in a made-up language just makes the lack of direction worse.

Hyper Light Drifter, on the other hand...the gameplay isn't what I find fun. I tried Hades, which has a very similar combat system, that being isometric hack-and-slash which requires quick reflexes and timing - I really don't have the reflexes for this, nor the patience to keep retrying after dying over and over. The art style is also unappealing for me - I didn't grow up with pixel-art games, so it's not 'nostalgic'. Undertale did a much better job at "retro" art style than this, honestly.

Anodyne - never heard of this one before. Seeing the PS4 trailer for it, it does look quite similar to Link's Awakening DX, a game I did enjoy. Maybe I'll try this one, as long as there's no horror elements or anything (I don't like horror).

Unsighted - no thanks, I really don't like playing as female characters. It's a personal thing, really; I'm just much more comfortable playing as dudes, since I find it easier to relate to them, easier to immerse myself.

Death's Door - maybe I'll try this one too, even though it's also got isometric hack-and-slash combat. The trailer does look interesting, at the very least.



Going through the several suggestions you gave me, none of them quite scratch the same itch as proper Legend of Zelda, as I said before - trust me, I have tried to find something similar in the past, only to end up disappointed. Good Legend of Zelda games have a unique appeal, unique blend of gameplay and story and characters, that nothing else (aside from Ōkami) has been able to replicate, which is a massive shame.

 

[Avalyn]

I was thinking of Tunic before when writing my previous post, actually, but I couldn't remember its name.
However, it's not quite the same as Legend of Zelda - like, I don't like how it has a stamina gauge (ugh), nor do I like the lack of instructions or direction (indeed, the lack of proper direction is another reason why I don't like BotW, TotK, Minecraft, and other games. I like having set goals and destinations to work towards). The fact most of the text in Tunic is in a made-up language just makes the lack of direction worse.

Hyper Light Drifter, on the other hand...the gameplay isn't what I find fun. I tried Hades, which has a very similar combat system, that being isometric hack-and-slash which requires quick reflexes and timing - I really don't have the reflexes for this, nor the patience to keep retrying after dying over and over. The art style is also unappealing for me - I didn't grow up with pixel-art games, so it's not 'nostalgic'. Undertale did a much better job at "retro" art style than this, honestly.

Anodyne - never heard of this one before. Seeing the PS4 trailer for it, it does look quite similar to Link's Awakening DX, a game I did enjoy. Maybe I'll try this one, as long as there's no horror elements or anything (I don't like horror).

Unsighted - no thanks, I really don't like playing as female characters. It's a personal thing, really; I'm just much more comfortable playing as dudes, since I find it easier to relate to them, easier to immerse myself.

Death's Door - maybe I'll try this one too, even though it's also got isometric hack-and-slash combat. The trailer does look interesting, at the very least.



Going through the several suggestions you gave me, none of them quite strike the same itch as proper Legend of Zelda, as I said before - trust me, I have tried to find something similar before, only to end up disappointed. Good Legend of Zelda games have a unique appeal, unique blend of gameplay and story and characters, that nothing else (aside from Ōkami) has been able to replicate, which is a massive shame.

To me it sounds like you have nostalgia for the old Zelda games, which is fine. I think a lot of people here are. But maybe you should just go play them again, instead of complaining and being upset that developers are trying new things

 

[AkiraKurusu]

To me it sounds like you have nostalgia for the old Zelda games, which is fine. I think a lot of people here are. But maybe you should just go play them again, instead of complaining and being upset that developers are trying new things

I have been playing them again, and they're still fantastic games - but I want more of this, which just isn't available at the moment.
There's definite value in returning to old classics, but there's also value in wishing for more of it. I'm not upset just for the sake of getting upset - there's legitimate grievances I have with the rather forced change in direction.

I realise I'm in the minority, but that's still no reason to just dismiss my opinion. Nintendo doesn't even have to return to 'traditional'-only; if they made those in-between the experimental change-in-direction titles, I'd be satisfied, as then I'd know it'd be only a matter of time before they gave me something I find fun.
As it currently stands, though, Nintendo has given up on 'traditional' entirely, which leaves me feeling bitter - especially as there's no real competition to fill that void.

 

[MightySashiman]

no nintendolife claimed it has leaked with proof. The owner has started a private streaming to demonstrate have it.

So good for him. Let that guy enjoy his 2min of fantasy fame while the rest of the world lives a more useful life.

 

[JonJaded]

no nintendolife claimed it has leaked with proof. The owner has started a private streaming to demonstrate have it.

Even if thats true, which I doubt, that doesn't mean it has leaked. Leaked means open and broadly released which it clearly hasn't. If one guy has it (which is probably a reviewer trolling) then he's at the worst its just a broken street date, not a leak.

They also state "leaked online in full" which also clearly hasn't happened. They're getting trolled. Nintendo Life's source was a another site called Gaming Reinvented, which has since revoked the claims in an update on their article. https://gamingreinvented.com/news/echoes-of-wisdom-has-leaked-online/

 

[zebrone]

Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom - Title Screen & Gameplay [LEAK]

 

[MightySashiman]

Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom - Title Screen & Gameplay [LEAK]

If so where's the link?

 

[BigOnYa]

If so where's the link?

So you are asking for warez? A bannable offense.

 

[zebrone]

If so where's the link?

No link. its only a proof that someone has got the game.

 

[MayorBryce]

If so where's the link?

Here you go

 

[Avalyn]

If so where's the link?

No Link, you play as Zelda in this one...

 

[RAHelllord]

Unsighted - no thanks, I really don't like playing as female characters. It's a personal thing, really; I'm just much more comfortable playing as dudes, since I find it easier to relate to them, easier to immerse myself.

So women shouldn't be allowed to have a zelda game where they can feel immersed for once by playing as a women, too? Because how are they supposed to relate and immerse themselves to some dude in tights?

And if you want to be pedantic about "traditional Zelda" then you shouldn't leave out the original Zelda, which is much closer in design and feel to BotW and TotK than anything in between. Skyward Sword and A Link Between Worlds were already steps back towards the original design philosophy of the series, and even A Link To The Past's ability to tackle any dungeon in the dark world in any order is a callback to the first title. BotW and TotK are what the first game would have been if it had been possible at the time.

But hey, you finally get a feel of what it's been like to be a women interested in games for the past 40 years, isn't it fun when the shoe is finally on the other foot for once?
Buy the game and then wait until one of the butthurt modders releases a patch to replace Zelda with Link, then you can also enjoy the game without getting cooties from having to play as a girl in your sacred dudebro franchise.

 

[AkiraKurusu]

So women shouldn't be allowed to have a zelda game where they can feel immersed for once by playing as a women, too? Because how are they supposed to relate and immerse themselves to some dude in tights?

And if you want to be pedantic about "traditional Zelda" then you shouldn't leave out the original Zelda, which is much closer in design and feel to BotW and TotK than anything in between. Skyward Sword and A Link Between Worlds were already steps back towards the original design philosophy of the series, and even A Link To The Past's ability to tackle any dungeon in the dark world in any order is a callback to the first title. BotW and TotK are what the first game would have been if it had been possible at the time.

But hey, you finally get a feel of what it's been like to be a women interested in games for the past 40 years, isn't it fun when the shoe is finally on the other foot for once?
Buy the game and then wait until one of the butthurt modders releases a patch to replace Zelda with Link, then you can also enjoy the game without getting cooties from having to play as a girl in your sacred dudebro franchise.

You really did not read what I wrote, did you? I never said women shouldn't be in games - all I said is that I don't find it comfortable playing as them, and it's purely a subjective thing of mine.
You're reading way too much into my two sentences, my guy.

 

[RAHelllord]

You really did not read what I wrote, did you? I never said women shouldn't be in games - all I said is that I don't find it comfortable playing as them, and it's purely a subjective thing of mine.
You're reading way too much into my two sentences, my guy.

I did read everything you wrote, I just picked those two lines specifically because they were the silliest.
All I was really saying there is that now you know how the other half of the gaming community feels, and how silly it is that some people will just discount a game entirely because the player character isn't iMmErSiVe enough because they're not a dude. But have no problem with this when it's the other that don't have any protagonists that match themselves.

Last but not least, I was serious about the patch, that should be trivial considering Link from Link's Awakening HD has basically all the same animations already and since it's the same engine they're either all still present in the game files, or are trivial to port over. If that's the only thing stopping you from enjoying Echos of Wisdom then there will be a solution for that available fairly soon.
People patched out the handful of pride flags in Spiderman, and those same people are going to be butthurt enough about having to play as Zelda that they're going to do that as well here.

 

[AkiraKurusu]

I did read everything you wrote, I just picked those two lines specifically because they were the silliest.
All I was really saying there is that now you know how the other half of the gaming community feels, and how silly it is that some people will just discount a game entirely because the player character isn't iMmErSiVe enough because they're not a dude. But have no problem with this when it's the other that don't have any protagonists that match themselves.

Last but not least, I was serious about the patch, that should be trivial considering Link from Link's Awakening HD has basically all the same animations already and since it's the same engine they're either all still present in the game files, or are trivial to port over. If that's the only thing stopping you from enjoying Echos of Wisdom then there will be a solution for that available fairly soon.
People patched out the handful of pride flags in Spiderman, and those same people are going to be butthurt enough about having to play as Zelda that they're going to do that as well here.

Except that I've never asked for Zelda in EoW to be replaced by Link, unlike "the other half" who demand female protags be added to games. Myself, I just don't play games with no male protags; I don't demand they be added, or that they be modded in or anything. I just simply ignore such games.

I mean, I do get annoyed when male protags are replaced or overshadowed by female ones due to DEI initiatives - such as Alan Wake 2, which has a larger focus on the female SWAT officer instead of Alan himself, or The Last of Us 2 ingloriously killing off Joel just to prop up Abby, or that Battlefield WW2 game a couple years ago depicting a mother and daughter duo sabotaging Axis supplies when historically it was a group of trained men who courageously did that - but I think that's justified.

Just as Ligeia said on Page 1, the issue isn't that female PCs exist - it's that they're often forced in these days to satisfy diversity checklists and the extremely vocal "progressive" crowd (who largely don't even play the games regardless - they're just so annoyingly loud that companies have to bend to them or risk nonsense negative PR). That's what I get frustrated with; I don't get frustrated that female PCs, in general, exist.