The Gigaleak 7: Switch SDK from 2015/More Internal Documents

Ryccardo

Penguin accelerator
Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
7,675
Trophies
1
Age
28
Location
Imola
XP
6,881
Country
Italy
@leseratte and friends, all very valid reasonings (and great reminder of consumer rights) but they miss the basic point that the license on any Nintendo console from Wii to WiiU applies to the optional online services, not the system itself :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: ZipMartin

leseratte

Wiimmfi Team
Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
453
Trophies
1
XP
1,857
Country
Germany
Yeah, that's the legal end result, since Nintendo can't legally put any restriction on how I use the 3DS itself. But they are definitely trying to make it sound like they had the legal ability to do that. See the 3DS EULA at §1 https://www.nintendo.com/consumer/info/en_na/docs.jsp?menu=3ds&submenu=ctr-doc-eula - it says stuff like "You may not ..., reverse engineer ... any portion of the Software ... unless otherwise permitted by law."

So yeah, it's allowed by law since I OWN this particular 3DS but they make it sound like it isn't.
 

chrisrlink

Has a PhD in dueling
Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
5,544
Trophies
2
Location
duel acadamia
XP
5,707
Country
United States
imagine that you modify an electronic and then it exploded and if it was proven that it was modified you would be the one responsible for all the damage and have to take responsibility for it since insurances would not pay for anything, since you modified it, therefore you lost all safety measures it had.

there is alot of tricky stuff that can happen, also i doubt any hacking team pays any taxes, that is all probably under the radar imo.
but what if the manufactuor puts a small explosive inside to trip wen code is modified? is it the hackers fault then?
 

ZipMartin

Well-Known Member
Newcomer
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
92
Trophies
1
XP
982
Country
Brazil
but what if the manufactuor puts a small explosive inside to trip wen code is modified? is it the hackers fault then?

LOL that sounded so far fetched but hasn't something like that already happened? If I'm not mistaken, the Xbox 360 had the security measure of bricking the console by burning a fuse or something like that if the installation of an older firmware version was detected.
In that case the owner accepts the risk of damage when modding their system, and the author of the modding software warns of that risk and takes no responsibility, especially if it's given for free.

But if Microsoft had put a real bomb or something that could potentially hurt someone or cause a fire or something that would be insane and they would definitely have to take responsibility. :rofl:
 

Deleted member 668561

GBAtemp Official Psychonaut
Banned
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
1,875
Trophies
0
Location
somewhere within 4 dimensional space-time
XP
2,654
Country
United States
LOL that sounded so far fetched but hasn't something like that already happened? If I'm not mistaken, the Xbox 360 had the security measure of bricking the console by burning a fuse or something like that if the installation of an older firmware version was detected.

NO

the 360 uses efuses to store its crypto keys, whether the console is retail or devkit , and for version revocation (you can't downgrade to an older nand backup)
this is used by the hypervisor, which controls all of the security features on the 360, and runs in parallel with the cpu

efuses are burned when updating boot loaders or the dashboard, so you can't downgrade if it turns out it was exploitable, if you try anyway you'll get a lockdown counter mismatch as ldv increments by 1 every kernel,bootloader,and dashboard update, your nand must match your cpu ldv (dashboard, kernel, and bootloaders have different lockdown counters too) or you'll get a mismatch at boot, and get the christmas tree lights

efuses are literally just like Write once read many rom ( 360 has 96 bytes of efuses, 768 bits total)


this system is very sturdy and foolproof and works well when implemented correctly , the 360 was hacked because of ONE programming flaw done in one dash version back on October 31, 2006 (its microsoft's own fault), if it wasn't for Microsoft even rgh wouldn't work because it still relies on the old 4532 kernel/dashboard (and rgh bypasses your efuses!)

its not surprising that Nintendo now utilizes them in the switch, as they are very cheap to implement and work very well if done right, when you don't use off the shelf parts and leave rcm loading features accessible

Nintendo should be upset with themselves, nobody would ever try to boot rcm mode on a switch so we can just leave it in even though its an NVIDIA chipset that's used in many smartphones and tablets, and has plenty of documentation....



for fucks sake you just needed your own ntrboot style implementation instead, remember nintendo pays nvidia to make the soc for the switch, all Nintendo had to do is tell nvida to remove rcm, or lock it down with a custom version


thats what happens when you don't think outside the box, or you believe that your consumers just as naive as you
 
Last edited by Deleted member 668561,

Kopimist

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2019
Messages
357
Trophies
0
Age
36
XP
995
Country
United States
After this, taking down all those rom sites, legal actions against Team Xecuter etc etc (the list goes on) Nintendo has lost me as a customer. Stalking somebody for making free exploits is crossing the line. Especially when said exploits dont even directly enable piracy in anyway shape or form.

Do I still like Nintendo products? Yes of course, but any products I buy will be purchased used. I'm not giving this company another dime. I'm just done with their crap over the years (especially lately).
 

RacsoSakuraba

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
267
Trophies
0
XP
541
Country
Venezuela
Why do you think a piece of paper with "terms and conditions", that you see after buying an object, has any legal value?

If I sell a book and put into that book a note that says "Terms and conditions: Anyone who reads this book must send me $100." can I then sue anyone who buys and reads the book without giving me another 100 dollars?

No, I can't. Nintendo shouldn't be able to do that either. If I buy that book, I can open it, take it apart, tinker with it, remove some pages or add my own pages or text or whatever to the book. Why should it be different with a 3DS? I buy a 3DS, I do with it what I want, and I take a look at how it works, and add my own code to it. Simple.

It's hard to believe the Nintendo Ninjas have been real all along..

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


Company ToS aren't actual laws you know.

Well, if you two read the full post, you would read my comment responding to others where I said that I seemed more curious than anything else, not for nothing did I end up with a "lol", lel
 

FAST6191

Techromancer
Editorial Team
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
36,798
Trophies
3
XP
28,284
Country
United Kingdom
After this, taking down all those rom sites, legal actions against Team Xecuter etc etc (the list goes on) Nintendo has lost me as a customer. Stalking somebody for making free exploits is crossing the line. Especially when said exploits dont even directly enable piracy in anyway shape or form.

I am struggling to understand this mindset.

As far as directly enabling things then while that might get juices flowing a bit more than boring homebrew (which itself they would still classify as some form of threat to them -- homebrew = emulation for most and they do sell emulated copies of games) then behind the scenes in most scenes before it then those that might have had a public "piracy is the worst" facade were anything but.

On TX. Would have preferred they didn't (they were doing good work that the homebrew scene did not care to) get pinged but seems like a standard part of the game really and they were a bit blatant about it all so no great shocker there.

But back to "stalking" (it really did not seem like it, just standard run a background check/investigation of a party) I am struggling to see the ill deed aspect of it all.

I find this little document cache amusing and a nice insight into mindsets (at least at the time -- 5 years for the most part might as well be a whole new company most of the time) but evidence of some kind of great malfeasance... yeah not even close for me.

If Nintendo lost me as a fan (not that I would ever have particularly classified myself as one) it is because they drove off the third parties that made their best consoles what they were, dabble in censorship and their last few goes around have been boring as you like and marred by gimmicks for me that I can't even use to experience games of the day -- exclusives are not things I relish in games but PS3 or 360 you could have generally experienced what games had to offer at the time. GC, PS2 or xbox much the same.
 

gamesquest1

Nabnut
Former Staff
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
15,153
Trophies
2
XP
12,237
damn I always knew my lampshade didn't have eyes when I bought it, screw you Nintendo

but on a more serious note I do remember at one point someone really really trying to push me to install a game for them on their 3DS, it came off as kinda weird as I had basically said " sorry I don't install or offer any games when I hardmod consoles" but they just kept pushing saying "maybe you can just install 1 game to get me started, Pokemon or Mario or something" I remember at the time thinking it was weird, I wonder if it was a Nintendo ninja.
 
Last edited by gamesquest1,

SaberLilly

Well-Known Member
Member
Joined
May 26, 2017
Messages
318
Trophies
0
Age
33
XP
1,406
Country
United States
damn I always knew my lampshade didn't have eyes when I bought it, screw you Nintendo

but on a more serious note I do remember at one point someone really really trying to push me to install a game for them on their 3DS, it came off as kinda weird as I had basically said " sorry I don't install or offer any games when I hardmod consoles" but they just kept pushing saying "maybe you can just install 1 game to get me started, Pokemon or Mario or something" I remember at the time thinking it was weird, I wonder if it was a Nintendo ninja.

Sounds like the secret shoppers we get at Jack In The Box, they deliberately ask for something we aren't supposed to do to see if we do it anyway just to make the sale.

Anyway, nintendo's way of dealing with with hackers/the homebrew scene in general is MEGA draconian, if they don't want people to homebrew systems, then they need to find a way to incentivize the community into not doing it, OR just allow people to do it anyway as long as what said homebrewer is doing is considered legal. Like turning the switch into a Windows/Linux Ultratablet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kopimist

ChibiMofo

Elon Musk is my dog
Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
682
Trophies
0
XP
2,804
Country
Canada
They can do whatever they wants because they have the rights but they aren't going to stop the piracy, unfortunately. Never was and never will, no matter what. As long as technology exist so are hacker team! That's simple!

Right, because as long as criminals exist, thieves will steal from Nintendo no matter what! They will also excuse their criminal behavior by blaming evil Nintendo for shutting down websites run by criminals that "love" Nintendo's products so much that they want everyone to not have to pay for them.
 

gamesquest1

Nabnut
Former Staff
Joined
Sep 23, 2013
Messages
15,153
Trophies
2
XP
12,237
Sounds like the secret shoppers we get at Jack In The Box, they deliberately ask for something we aren't supposed to do to see if we do it anyway just to make the sale.

Anyway, nintendo's way of dealing with with hackers/the homebrew scene in general is MEGA draconian, if they don't want people to homebrew systems, then they need to find a way to incentivize the community into not doing it, OR just allow people to do it anyway as long as what said homebrewer is doing is considered legal. Like turning the switch into a Windows/Linux Ultratablet.
yeah Microsoft seem to have found the answer, just let people make home-brew for their own consoles, once you have a viable sandbox mode for people to play in and run emulators and stuff the inevitable piracy that usually comes with un-authorised homebrew efforts is much less likely to appear as most of the super talented devs are content playing in the development mode sandbox

granted microsoft dont have much to fear from emulators and such, while Nintendo more heavily rely on reselling old retro games I guess there is that factor to discourage Nintendo while Microsoft can basically only benefit and garner sales from home-brew and emulators of content they wouldn't be allowed to sell anyway so its no loss for them only gains
 
Last edited by gamesquest1,

Site & Scene News

Popular threads in this forum

General chit-chat
Help Users
    Psionic Roshambo @ Psionic Roshambo: @Xdqwerty, at one point in time everything that exists, was one singularity