It's hard to believe the Nintendo Ninjas have been real all along..Holy fuck. This is nauseating.
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Company ToS aren't actual laws you know.
The Gigaleak 7: Switch SDK from 2015/More Internal Documents
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a bit radical just for a video game console, did they stored some nuclear code inside?Holy fuck. This is nauseating.
Why do you think a piece of paper with "terms and conditions", that you see after buying an object, has any legal value?
If I sell a book and put into that book a note that says "Terms and conditions: Anyone who reads this book must send me $100." can I then sue anyone who buys and reads the book without giving me another 100 dollars?
No, I can't. Nintendo shouldn't be able to do that either. If I buy that book, I can open it, take it apart, tinker with it, remove some pages or add my own pages or text or whatever to the book. Why should it be different with a 3DS? I buy a 3DS, I do with it what I want, and I take a look at how it works, and add my own code to it. Simple.
Contract law exists though.
As long as you keep your book to yourself you can do whatever you want with it. But if you take a book and modify it and distribute that copy, then you've broken copyright law.
Last edited by smf,
The hackers also kept their modified 3DS to themselves. They just took what they added (exploit / their own code) and published that. They never published a combined work.
The additional text or data I write into the book, I could as well legally publish that as long as I don't also publish the original book text. And even if I did, I can also sell the modified book. I just can't sell additional copies. It is perfectly legal to buy a book, add some of your own text to it, then sell that book again.
And yes, contract law exists, but in order to use that you'd need to read and agree to that contract BEFORE buying a 3DS / book, basically, make the SALE of the 3DS only happen if the consumer agrees to the contract. When I go into a Gamestop and buy a 3DS, I don't remember signing a contract not to violate the EULA.
Last edited by leseratte,
Which the DMCA/EUCD and other similar laws says you're not supposed to do.
If they kept their exploit to themselves, then it's the same as your book example. You can do whatever you want with it.
Nintendo can point to the DMCA and point to the T&C. You might be able to argue out of it, or you might not.
Most people prefer not to go to court to find out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_engineering#United_States
If the terms are a surprise to you, then ask for a refund.
Last edited by smf,
Where's that written? The only thing I know of, and which Nintendo tried to use in their documents was the "unauthorized access to a computer system" thing.
The thing is, it's not unauthorized. If I am the OWNER of a 3DS and I bought it without signing a specific contract like an NDA, then I'm the person who can authorize people (like myself) to modify it. It's mine. And I am allowed to distribute whatever I wrote into the book I bought.
And if I write a piece of software that happens to abuse a bug in Nintendo software and exploit that, then that software I wrote is still MINE, is under MY copyright, and I can publish it however I want.
EDIT: I'm not saying that I couldn't get sued. You can sue anyone for anything. I'm just saying that adding conditions AFTER the sale is not allowed, and these conditions can be ignored.
The thing is, it's not unauthorized. If I am the OWNER of a 3DS and I bought it without signing a specific contract like an NDA, then I'm the person who can authorize people (like myself) to modify it. It's mine. And I am allowed to distribute whatever I wrote into the book I bought.
And if I write a piece of software that happens to abuse a bug in Nintendo software and exploit that, then that software I wrote is still MINE, is under MY copyright, and I can publish it however I want.
EDIT: I'm not saying that I couldn't get sued. You can sue anyone for anything. I'm just saying that adding conditions AFTER the sale is not allowed, and these conditions can be ignored.
Last edited by leseratte,
it doesnt work like that lol you can just sell mario pictures or any stuff that has copyright laws to it.
just because you draw it or write it on a book you bought you cant make money of it, or else anyone would buy a book, copy it to a empty book and then sell it cheaper since they wrote it lol.
WTF? That's not what I said. Nobody talked about COPYING a book.
I can buy a book, and write ADDITIONAL stuff into that one book, and sell that book ONCE. That's called "Exhaustion of intellectual property rights" and is, of course, allowed -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaustion_of_intellectual_property_rights
Or I take just my own stuff that I wrote myself on my own, and copy and sell that however much I want.
Last edited by leseratte,
well to sell alot of stuff you might need a license, since it has to be rated and so on, selling even stuff you make in house to the public legally needs a license specially if it sells more than 1 unit.
because taxes and laws and such.
Yeah, you need to pay taxes. What does that have to do with the legality of selling a book that I bought and added some of my own content to?
Of course you need to adhere to any laws applying to selling stuff in general ...
Of course you need to adhere to any laws applying to selling stuff in general ...
to pay taxes you need a legal license to sell said product, if its a book you need to get it rated and see if it doesn't contain any illegal stuff on it, if its an electronic needs to pass the safety checks and so on, to get there you need your product approved for public sale in the first place before reaching the taxes departments.
you can sell your used items just fine because all those items already passed the approval laws before you bough them.
I don't need a license to sell a book, at least not in Germany. Not sure how it works in the US. I just need to find a publisher who agrees to print it. Or I publish an eBook, with a hardcopy through Amazon Print. No license or rating needed.
Same as I don't need a license or pay taxes on a hypothetical 3DS exploit that I created on my own and released it to the public for free.
But the question on which licenses I need to sell my own book wasn't the question here.
Same as I don't need a license or pay taxes on a hypothetical 3DS exploit that I created on my own and released it to the public for free.
But the question on which licenses I need to sell my own book wasn't the question here.
Last edited by leseratte,
are you for real?
publishers will do all the legal stuff for you from certification to everything, same for amazon to make an ebook, while you don't do the work the publishers do be it amazon or a regular one, they cant just put anything out there until they read it and approve it.
Okay, one step further, I can write an eBook myself, take that eBook file, and put it on my own website behind a PayPal link. No other company or publisher or Amazon or legal entity will ever read my eBook, other than my customers.
Yes, that is legal as well. As long as I pay taxes on my income, the government won't give a fuck. And yes, if I had a book printer, I could print hardcopies of that book myself and ship them to paying customers. But that's still not the point. We were discussing that EULAs that are added after a sale are not enforcable, and I can install MY OWN SOFTWARE like an exploit on MY OWN DEVICE THAT I OWN.
Yes, that is legal as well. As long as I pay taxes on my income, the government won't give a fuck. And yes, if I had a book printer, I could print hardcopies of that book myself and ship them to paying customers. But that's still not the point. We were discussing that EULAs that are added after a sale are not enforcable, and I can install MY OWN SOFTWARE like an exploit on MY OWN DEVICE THAT I OWN.
Last edited by leseratte,
The best selling consolers have mostly been the most hacked with a few exceptions.
The Nintendo Nes was so hacked that some countries only ever got the pirate clones.
The Sega Genesis was the second most popular console of it's generation and the most pirated of its generation. In fact is theorized Sega would have sold about ten million consoles Worldwide more if Sega Genesis clones were not a thing. Even up to the early 2010s you could still get Sega Genesis clones that play most games.
Also the real Sega Genesis copy protection was terrible to start with.
The playstacion due to using CDs and just needing to be chiped to be pirated is the first or second most pirated videogame console of all time. Is also the best selling videogame console of it's generation.
The PS2, Oh God the PS2..
The Wii.
PS3.
The 3DS...
And I could get going...
The Nintendo Nes was so hacked that some countries only ever got the pirate clones.
The Sega Genesis was the second most popular console of it's generation and the most pirated of its generation. In fact is theorized Sega would have sold about ten million consoles Worldwide more if Sega Genesis clones were not a thing. Even up to the early 2010s you could still get Sega Genesis clones that play most games.
Also the real Sega Genesis copy protection was terrible to start with.
The playstacion due to using CDs and just needing to be chiped to be pirated is the first or second most pirated videogame console of all time. Is also the best selling videogame console of it's generation.
The PS2, Oh God the PS2..
The Wii.
PS3.
The 3DS...
And I could get going...
imagine that you modify an electronic and then it exploded and if it was proven that it was modified you would be the one responsible for all the damage and have to take responsibility for it since insurances would not pay for anything, since you modified it, therefore you lost all safety measures it had.
there is alot of tricky stuff that can happen, also i doubt any hacking team pays any taxes, that is all probably under the radar imo.
Yes, that is correct. If my negligence causes a device to explode, I sell it, and it explodes *because of my modifications* then a court could maybe force me to pay the damages that occurred. But the modification and the selling itself was still perfectly legal. They would sue me for causing damage, not for illegally modding a device.
Or do you think all these smartphone repair shops send every repaired device to a government entity to verify it's still safe? These aren't authorized by the manufacturers either, are they?
And hacking teams don't need to pay taxes on their hacking BECAUSE THEY DON'T SELL THEIR MODS. They publish them for free. No income => no taxes.
But now you're even further from the topic. Running your own software on a 3DS doesn't cause it to explode.
Last edited by leseratte,
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