The Gaza Invasion Escalates

Valwin

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The Israeli Defense Minister approved expansion of draft to more than 75,000 army reservists; request was transferred to the approval of the government
 

Foxi4

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The Israeli Defense Minister approved expansion of draft to more than 75,000 army reservists; request was transferred to the approval of the government
Looks like I won't have to have the thread's title changed then - it's going to be a full-on invasion soon.
 

Valwin

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Looks like I won't have to have the thread's title changed then - it's going to be a full-on invasion soon.

18:22 GMT: Israeli army announces it's closing three major roads around the Gaza Strip and declaring them closed military zones.
Hospitals in Israel have reportedly been given emergency protocols. All who are not in need of urgent care are being sent home.

well I guess no one can stop it now.
 

Foxi4

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18:22 GMT: Israeli army announces it's closing three major roads around the Gaza Strip and declaring them closed military zones.
Hospitals in Israel have reportedly been given emergency protocols. All who are not in need of urgent care are being sent home.

well I guess no one can stop it now.
inb4U.SForcesEnterGazaTo"Stabilize"TheSituation, anyone?
 

ForteGospel

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Isn't it nice that Israeli barracks are near cities? Isn't it nice that IDF soldiers live in with the general population? Isn't it nice that Israel forces civilians to fight and kill, making them targets? Isn't it nice that Palestinians voting for Hamas seems to make it their own fault when children are slaughtered by IDF attacks, but when Israelis vote for a party determined to continue the system of apartheid and genocide, that's somehow different?

most of the Israeli barracks are in the middle of the desert, nowhere near cities the closest one are some kilometers outside the city itself
where do you want your 18 year old son live if not with his family?
Israel doesn't force civilians to kill... where did you hear that? even if you get enrolled into the army, if you refuse to fight no one forces you
Palestinians voted for a terrorist group to represent them... we voted for a capitalist party that wanted coexist with Palestinians many times
what genocide? do you actually think we have death camps or something?
and last, it's nice of you to use the name IDF, do you know what it stands for? Israel Defense Force
 

BlueStar

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But this is what we hear, on the reverse side, isn't it? "Oh well, shame about those dead children but the military commanders shouldn't have been 'hiding amongst civilians'." I'm sure Hamas would prefer to kill IDF soldiers. Why not stop them 'hiding amongst civilians' and put them somewhere where Hamas can target them separately? Militants don't live in Terrorland, they have families and need to get bread from the store like anyone else. Seeing as Gaza is essentially a prison, the area of operations is going to be pretty limited. Are they going to say "Well, that Israeli tank is near a school, but we'd better not fire rockets from near the school (even if it's empty and has been evacuated) we'll go somewhere else and fire a rocket at a bush instead?' Some of the justifications you hear for things no country other than Israel would get away with is just absurd.

As for the 'Israeli Defense Force', that's a bit like saying 'Democratic People's Republic of Korea' Judge on actions, not words. Israel has demonstrated it wants expansion, invasion and elimination, not 'defense'. (although how far they go with this depends - as an election is coming up, it's time to show' strength' by blowing fuck out of people from a safe distance.)
 
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ForteGospel

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And SS stands for Die Schutzstaffel der NSDAP, meaning Defense Corps of NSDAP, your point being?

The name doesn't always mirror the policies or methods.
how i wish i could change bodies with you right now, not to "see and feel" what it is to be here, but so you could hear what is taught in IDF

not going to happen so... only wishfull thinking

Israel has demonstrated it wants expansion, invasion and elimination, not 'defense'.
i dont know where you are hearing things... believe me this is not about territory neither religion... or dont, as all i said until now just got into deaf ears...
 
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Foxi4

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It is an incredibly rare occurance that I fully agree with BlueStar, and this time I do. Neither the soldiers nor the so-called "terrorists" have any express reason at all to target civilians or cause collateral. That said, their movements are dictated by the higher-up's and those are the people we should start observing.
 
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WingsOfTheButter

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I have no intention to start new argument here, I'm just trying to put thing under perspective, you need to understand that IDF is going against group that disguise themselves among civilians so the chances that innocent people won't get hurt is very low, while on the other hand Hamas attack Israeli civilians on almost daily basis, because he believed that our place should be among the fishies in the sea, just take for example Lebanon after IDF gets out of there we got quiet, also the Arabs in Israel have good life, believe it or not we live peacefully together, they work as doctors nurses and so, also in most cases they don't get judge by thier race check out this video (just to be clear I'm not saying that it not happening)
About 75,000 army reservists yes they were called but that doesn't mean they are going inside yet, they got called for just for standby for the worst case scenario
 

emigre

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Why has Israel attacked Gaza now?- A short video from Jonathan Freedland where he provides possible reasons for Israel's actions. It seems, at least partially, there's a Machiavellian rational behind it all. Pretty interesting as well as depressingly cynical.

Regarding the conflict, I can't say I will ever find myself trusting of Israel considering their history of oppression and breaking international law which has always left me dubious whether they actually want peace.
 
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dickfour

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I'm going to support the side that doesn't treat women like garbage, you know throw acid in little girls faces for looking at boys. I'll support the side that doesn't kill homosexuals. That'd be Israel
 

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I'm going to support the side that doesn't treat women like garbage, you know throw acid in little girls faces for looking at boys. I'll support the side that doesn't kill homosexuals. That'd be Israel
Don't worry - they're too busy firing missiles at schools to notice your support.

Seriously though, both sides of the conflict are pretty nasty. IDF's known for not caring much about Human Rights, Hamas uses terror tactics and shoots at what appears to be random locations. Not an easy choice, perhaps it's best to remain neutral rather than support either side.
 
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crystal107

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can't watch this any longer... this british dude knows nothing about what's going on in here... and he uses phrases like "psychopathic methods/names" etc etc - what the hell... have you ever considered that there may be a good reason for stuff and people don't just go and enjoy having a war? What kind of a reporter is this, missing a brain maybe? There was nothing psychopathic about fighting against those who were bombing us for 2 weeks while we were quiet, the army can't just sit aside while citizens are being terrorized, that would be madness... gee, I watch these shows and I don't really wonder why people think so many bad things about Israel, media makes sure to put this country in a bad light.
 

Foxi4

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gee, I watch these shows and I don't really wonder why people think so many bad things about Israel, media makes sure to put this country in a bad light.
Yep, the whole world just conspires againts Israel 24/7. Truth to be told, Europe and the U.S helped you establish the State, regularily chipped in to help it develop and sold you weapons and technology for sh*ts and giggles - all we really wanted was someone to complain about.

...Not.

There's a golden rule about opinions - when one person tells you that you're doing something wrong and you should stop, this person may very well be wrong... however, when you repeatedly hear the same thing from many people coming from different places in the world with different backgrounds, it's a good hint that perhaps you should have a better look at what's going on, because there just may be a grain of truth in the criticism.

You're saying that the mass-media has an anti-Israeli agenda and spreads false propaganda, and I'm going to say that your government is lying to you, you think they're doing things by the book, but in all factuality, half of the "war efforts" of Israel could be considered war crimes if they were committed by another country, but the world turns a blind eye to it because "Criticize Israel = Anti-Semitism Accusations", and how are you going to respond to that? Are you going to correct me? With what? After all, it's just an opinion.
 

crystal107

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Yep, the whole world just conspires againts Israel 24/7. Truth to be told, Europe and the U.S helped you establish the State, regularily chipped in to help it develop and sold you weapons and technology for sh*ts and giggles - all we really wanted was someone to complain about.

...Not.

There's a golden rule about opinions - when one person tells you that you're doing something wrong and you should stop, this person may very well be wrong... however, when you repeatedly hear the same thing from many people coming from different places in the world with different backgrounds, it's a good hint that perhaps you should have a better look at what's going on, because there just may be a grain of truth in the criticism.

You're saying that the mass-media has an anti-Israeli agenda and spreads false propaganda, and I'm going to say that your government is lying to you, you think they're doing things by the book, but in all factuality, half of the "war efforts" of Israel could be considered war crimes if they were committed by another country, but the world turns a blind eye to it because "Criticize Israel = Anti-Semitism Accusations", and how are you going to respond to that? Are you going to correct me? With what? After all, it's just an opinion.

Pretty simple, if all you say is true.. why would they barely let the other person get the facts they are ignoring? they ignored a tons of facts about what actually happens here... so if they are so so right, why do they ignore those facts and dont consider them?
If they are so so right, and really have no interests of going against Israeli decisions other than being good people... then why the missing facts? why the omitting of important details that make the picture look a LOT different? if they at LEAST took them into consideration, but they dont. people die here? meh it's ok, they are just israeli civilians, they are strong we can ignore that... people die there? OMG Israel are such a devil! how dare they kill people who are so poor and helpless!
So the way they present it, is how I know it's all bullshit, if they gathered all the facts and presented them properly and still be against Israel, then sure, why not.

As for your golden rule, If you want me to go ahead and find you how rumors can ruin people's lives when they are all based on lies, I am sure I will find something. You're mistaken if you think mass opinions can't be wrong, when you omit important details, it's easy to be wrong.
 

Foxi4

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Pretty simple, if all you say is true.. why would they barely let the other person get the facts they are ignoring? they ignored a tons of facts about what actually happens here... so if they are so so right, why do they ignore those facts and dont consider them?
If they are so so right, and really have no interests of going against Israeli decisions other than being good people... then why the missing facts? why the omitting of important details that make the picture look a LOT different? if they at LEAST took them into consideration, but they dont. people die here? meh it's ok, they are just israeli civilians, they are strong we can ignore that... people die there? OMG Israel are such a devil! how dare they kill people who are so poor and helpless!
So the way they present it, is how I know it's all bullshit, if they gathered all the facts and presented them properly and still be against Israel, then sure, why not.
Please name those important facts here, I will gladly read about your point of view. So-far, all you're saying is that you have important facts, but you're not presenting any.

As for your golden rule, If you want me to go ahead and find you how rumors can ruin people's lives when they are all based on lies, I am sure I will find something. You're mistaken if you think mass opinions can't be wrong, when you omit important details, it's easy to be wrong.

Listen - these are not rumours. Those correspondents are there, they're seeing the situation with their eyes and hearing it with their ears - they simply have a different point of view because they likely weren't brought up in the area, so of all people there, they are going to be the most objective.

No self-respecting country would bomb a football field or a funeral, regardless of whether or not there are militians there simply because there are too many civilians on-site - you just don't do that.
 

crystal107

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Please name those important facts here, I will gladly read about your point of view. So-far, all you're saying is that you have important facts, but you're not presenting any.

Oh it's easy, for starters, try to watch that news edition, with the fat guy who is being ganged by 3 other reporters, who hold a negative opinion, trying to present facts that don't agree with their opinions, try to listen and watch carefully, tell me if they even care to listen to what he has to say that they don't know... please, watch that, if you gonna tell me they actually tried to listen and weren't ganging on him , then I'm out of this argument.
 

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