The Chinese corporate social credit system

[notimp]

Giving ratings in itself maybe isnt the big issue here. Its basically that you announce that you are doing it, that they will matter, that they arent entirely transparent, but that people can do a few things to better them.

Also to make sure that people believe in their importance you establish that everyone monitors each other, while the state monitors you. Then you tell people, that you are doing it that way. (And that it will impact your tax score. )

What you are producing is 'desired' behavior, social expectation of surveillance and self censorship. Together with a feeling of 'that is the new reality'. Kind of like what 'facebook optimizing' meant to people, but without an opt out. And that you cant buy insurance, or board a train on the 'bad end' of the outcome.

The ratings stuff is not so outrageous, people tend to do it all the time anyhow. Its actually the importance that that rating gets, and that you are aware of it.

And the virtual invisible hand idea, which means, that as a state you can influence markets without anyone knowing. I think I have to spell that out once more. If you build in those cascading effects, you can f.e. harm a company that isnt your target, to harm the target,.. And you can do it by flipping a few bits.

Oh - and this is related:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/millenn...epts-fascinating-at-hacker-conference.527431/

If you act based on ratings that arent transparent to people, it becomes a problem as well though, because of non explicit biases, and people not having the chance to counteract them. But thats maybe a lesser level of problematic (because we got used to it a while ago). The bigger problem here is that we get delegation of responsibility. "Computer said no" problem. When you dont know why (no causality - just probability), and when engineers will always 'tweak along' to try to make stuff 'work' (again). And doing that with messy data, based on a hunch. (Big Data issues )

 

[Xzi]

Facebook - Potential and current employers, insurance companies, credit card companies, etc. can and have used people's facebook profiles already to judge them based on the material they post.
Google/Youtube - Google can add you into their search engine so anybody can type in your name and pull up arrest records, personal blogs, even forum posts on extremist websites. The videos you share can be used to target you for hate/death threats and can be used to silence you if you do not fit into Google's "preferred speech".
Twitter - people have been fired or lost job opportunities for posts made years ago.

Okay, but what if you aren't on Facebook/Twitter, and strictly post under a username on other sites so Google can't find you? Or what if you just delete all that stuff? In the EU at least I know there are "right to be forgotten" laws which require deletion of data from servers when requested.

Extremism is a different matter altogether. I don't think neo-nazis should be protected any more than members of ISIS, but unless you get yourself doxxed, that type of online activity isn't likely to be tied to your real name.

These all seem like social credit profiling to me, but what do I know?

Right now, I, personally, can't confirm that they are giving "ratings" to individuals, but that is a possible next step.

None of these businesses are tied into a centralized government system that tracks everywhere you go and everything you do. Are Facebook and Google too close to being monopolies within their respective markets? Probably, but that type of thing becomes an inevitability when we fail to elect politicians who are willing to stand up for antitrust laws. Just about everybody in the current administration is happy to allow corporations to regulate government instead of the other way around.

I also said nothing about rating companies. Not sure why you brought that up.

That's the central topic of the thread, scores being given to companies based on the standards of the Chinese government. Social credit scores for individuals were implemented in China well before now. They've even got dedicated camera towers for the purposes of facial recognition, which is why it makes me happy to see stuff like this happening amongst the Hong Kong protests:

 

[FAST6191]

Okay, but what if you aren't on Facebook/Twitter, and strictly post under a username on other sites so Google can't find you? Or what if you just delete all that stuff? In the EU at least I know there are "right to be forgotten" laws which require deletion of data from servers when requested.

Extremism is a different matter altogether. I don't think neo-nazis should be protected any more than members of ISIS, but unless you get yourself doxxed, that type of online activity isn't likely to be tied to your real name.


None of these businesses are tied into a centralized government system that tracks everywhere you go and everything you do. Are Facebook and Google too close to being monopolies within their respective markets? Probably, but that type of thing becomes an inevitability when we fail to elect politicians who are willing to stand up for antitrust laws. Just about everybody in the current administration is happy to allow corporations to regulate government instead of the other way around.


That's the central topic of the thread, scores being given to companies based on the standards of the Chinese government. Social credit scores for individuals were implemented in China well before now. They've even got dedicated camera towers for the purposes of facial recognition, which is why it makes me happy to see stuff like this happening amongst the Hong Kong protests:

Depending upon the job you might be required to be on such things, or have your absence from such things be considered against you. This is also not just PR and marketing positions either -- some use it as a measure of how outgoing you are, others as a low key means of keeping tabs and I have heard it going down as low as working in a bar or restaurant.
Now I would probably thank the people offering the job for advertising it as bad by virtue of such requirements but I have minimal outgoings, tools and skills as my basis for doing stuff.

Also why you would leap right to neo nazis (not that I would lump the non violent part of those in with those that do violence in the world) I don't know -- if a phrase as innocuous as "there are only 2 genders" can get you troubled (we have seen Googles internal policies, they youtube guidelines, their advertising policies on the likes of youtube and their more covert things for youtube reflect such things, and plenty of others move in lock step), or indeed such companies take what is the fairly minor step at this point to believing cultural appropriation is both a thing and a bad one (we have already seen businesses troubled by it on such sites).

Tied to government systems are a modifier in the equation but don't negate other things (the accountability problem alone bringing it back), doubly so if they do get their currency thing off the ground and the likes of paypal (or indeed more traditional banks) continue to ban people for wrongthink rather than just the usual criminal action, fraud and abuse.

 

[RandomUser]

Oh man this reminds me of that TV show called Black Mirror Episode called "Nosedive". they portrays something similar, except in a social network way. Should give it a watch if you like, Season 3 Episode one I think.

 

[Xzi]

Depending upon the job you might be required to be on such things, or have your absence from such things be considered against you. This is also not just PR and marketing positions either -- some use it as a measure of how outgoing you are, others as a low key means of keeping tabs and I have heard it going down as low as working in a bar or restaurant.
Now I would probably thank the people offering the job for advertising it as bad by virtue of such requirements but I have minimal outgoings, tools and skills as my basis for doing stuff.

All the more reason to stay away from social media or at the very least set it to private. Your boss has no right to track your activities during your free time, much less dictate what you do in your free time. And any company that values the image you project on social media over the work ethic you demonstrate has their priorities completely ass-backwards, thus they should be avoided at all costs.

Also why you would leap right to neo nazis (not that I would lump the non violent part of those in with those that do violence in the world) I don't know -- if a phrase as innocuous as "there are only 2 genders" can get you troubled (we have seen Googles internal policies, they youtube guidelines, their advertising policies on the likes of youtube and their more covert things for youtube reflect such things, and plenty of others move in lock step), or indeed such companies take what is the fairly minor step at this point to believing cultural appropriation is both a thing and a bad one (we have already seen businesses troubled by it on such sites).

Nazism is not a "difference of opinion," it's an ideology based in violence as a means to create conformity. I mention it only because right-wing extremism in all forms is on the rise lately, and those neo-nazis not actively participating in terrorist acts tend to enjoy at least cheering them on through the internet.

Tied to government systems are a modifier in the equation but don't negate other things (the accountability problem alone bringing it back), doubly so if they do get their currency thing off the ground and the likes of paypal (or indeed more traditional banks) continue to ban people for wrongthink rather than just the usual criminal action, fraud and abuse.

The problem (at least in the US) comes down to conservatives being unable to decide whether they love or hate the idea of oligarchy. They seem to love it when it comes to a business deciding to refuse service on the basis of sexual orientation, but they hate it when it comes to a social media company enforcing their clearly-defined rules/terms of use. Where exactly is the line between government protecting the rights of individuals and stepping on the rights of businesses? Because I'm not necessarily against reigning in the corporate power structure, but it has to be done with clarity and transparency, not in such a way that it serves the interests of one particular political/religious viewpoint.

 

[morvoran]

Okay, but what if you aren't on Facebook/Twitter, and strictly post under a username on other sites so Google can't find you? Or what if you just delete all that stuff? In the EU at least I know there are "right to be forgotten" laws which require deletion of data from servers when requested.

Extremism is a different matter altogether. I don't think neo-nazis should be protected any more than members of ISIS, but unless you get yourself doxxed, that type of online activity isn't likely to be tied to your real name.


None of these businesses are tied into a centralized government system that tracks everywhere you go and everything you do. Are Facebook and Google too close to being monopolies within their respective markets? Probably, but that type of thing becomes an inevitability when we fail to elect politicians who are willing to stand up for antitrust laws. Just about everybody in the current administration is happy to allow corporations to regulate government instead of the other way around.


That's the central topic of the thread, scores being given to companies based on the standards of the Chinese government. Social credit scores for individuals were implemented in China well before now. They've even got dedicated camera towers for the purposes of facial recognition, which is why it makes me happy to see stuff like this happening amongst the Hong Kong protests:

I'm going to try to condense this all to down to keep it short. Hopefully, it will still make sense.

For social media sites, because they are free services in which you don't pay for products or services, you and the information you provide is their product.

Equifax, which is not tied to a centralized government, collects credit details such as banking loans, credit card debt, payment details, etc. If you do not use any of these services, they have no data on you to collect, and you won't get far in life as it is hard to get a bank loan, buy a vehicle, own a house, etc. without a credit score.

Same with Facebook, twitter, youtube, etc. If privacy is a main concern of yours, then not giving these companies your real information is the best thing to do. The biggest problem with these sites becoming collectors of social credit scores, along with the government utilizing these sites for its own purposes, is that you won't get far in life without using social media and giving up your privacy or even your freedom to privacy.

When I mentioned extremist sites, you could, for example, sign up to one of these sites just to bash "far-right nazi scum" with your opinions one time, if Google combs the web for members of these sites, guess what? You're now listed as a neo-nazi scum yourself. Congratulations!!! Welcome to the new world order!!! Now employers won't hire you, your partner leaves you, your dog won't look at you, and you have to find a cardboard box you have to have your parents co-sign for you to live in, which they won't because who would love a nazi? You should have used a VPN before signing up if those still exist in this future.

 

[notimp]

Equifax, which is not tied to a centralized government, collects credit details such as banking loans, credit card debt, payment details, etc. If you do not use any of these services, they have no data on you to collect, and you won't get far in life as it is hard to get a bank loan, buy a vehicle, own a house, etc. without a credit score.

Those usually also sell you data, but in the EU I at least know that they have to anonymize it - so strip it from your name and identifiable information. Thats usually not sufficient statistically (reidentification using different datasets with the same datapoints is possible) - but practically and legally.

When I mentioned extremist sites, you could, for example, sign up to one of these sites just to bash "far-right nazi scum" with your opinions one time, if Google combs the web for members of these sites, guess what? You're now listed as a neo-nazi scum yourself. Congratulations!!! Welcome to the new world order!!! Now employers won't hire you, your partner leaves you, your dog won't look at you, and you have to find a cardboard box you have to have your parents co-sign for you to live in, which they won't because who would love a nazi? You should have used a VPN before signing up if those still exist in this future.

First wrong - because even if you are neo-nazi scum, you still have human rights - one of which is the right for privacy.

This is to counteract ostracism on moral grounds.

I know that today the thinking goes - well, we so liberal, we let you basically be anything you like - other than that thing we dont like - and then we'll gang up and -- get out of our neighborhood... which still is not what solves issues. Privacy is exactly there, that you can meet up at your local bakery say a friendly hello, and not think about that guys marrage issues, and that gals fetishes, and - and that guys political orientation, and that groups salary.... It levels the playing field. Its what demands 'common decency' in the first place - because - you dont know who you are dealing with. (In face to face community circumstances, in internet forums its different - because you have more anonymity.) In big cities less so than in smaller towns or settlements, but it serves the same purpose.

Also - because many VPN vendors are data brokers themselves (f.e.: https://www.vpnmentor.com/blog/is-nordvpn-operated-by-tesonet/ ) its a secondary business for them and you never read TOS.

(The gag is, that the VPNs for 'normal users' basically developed as 'half a scam' once 'three strikes, six strikes - however many strikes' was set in place as a legal motion against piracy. When suddenly there was a broader need for them. And then the VPN industry - became a 'cash out' option for piracy. They sold against fear and guilt that was there - they got free money. And a partnership between them an piracy vendors was born. Might depend on your region - but usually no one can get IP tables from illicit download or streaming platforms - so... draw your own conclusions. If you care about opsec - you know why you care about opsec, and obviously this paragraph isnt for you.

Also - I pay for a VPN - but for locations change reasons manly. )

edit: In China they do now encourage you to monitor the social scores of your business partners and friend circles as well, effectively canceling that out and creating another caste system. We'll have to see how well that'll go.

So the last time you repeated the Zuckerberg slogan of 'I don't care, because I've got nothing to hide...' you probably weren't thinking straight. Even though yes - empowerment is right and good, and all.

 

[morvoran]

First wrong - because even if you are neo-nazi scum, you still have human rights - one of which is the right for privacy.

Not wrong. Neo-nazis as private citizens have rights, true. I never said anything about this taking away their rights.

If you are labeled as a Nazi under this "social credit system", then a private company can deny you employment, deny you loans, etc. based off of that label. Who wants their company to be credited with supporting Nazis, which may happen under this program?

A VPN's business strategy is based off of privacy. If they start collecting and selling your data that can be pointed back to you, then this will be very bad for their business. If they already are, then this needs to be brought to everybody's attention, so they can start litigation.
I personally don't use VPNs as I don't do anything that would need their service. My social credit score is based off a fake persona I created when I started using the internet.

 

[leon315]

FEDEX is crying in fear after all the shitstrom, and likely is losing Chinese market with billions of loss

 

[Xzi]

Same with Facebook, twitter, youtube, etc. If privacy is a main concern of yours, then not giving these companies your real information is the best thing to do. The biggest problem with these sites becoming collectors of social credit scores, along with the government utilizing these sites for its own purposes, is that you won't get far in life without using social media and giving up your privacy or even your freedom to privacy.

When I mentioned extremist sites, you could, for example, sign up to one of these sites just to bash "far-right nazi scum" with your opinions one time, if Google combs the web for members of these sites, guess what? You're now listed as a neo-nazi scum yourself. Congratulations!!! Welcome to the new world order!!! Now employers won't hire you, your partner leaves you, your dog won't look at you, and you have to find a cardboard box you have to have your parents co-sign for you to live in, which they won't because who would love a nazi? You should have used a VPN before signing up if those still exist in this future.

These are all just hypotheticals mixed with paranoia for the time being. You can pursue any career path successfully without creating a Facebook account. And if they ever decide to start assigning arbitrary ratings to individuals, then every other social media platform will start assigning their own ratings based on different criteria, making all of them meaningless. Unless you're applying for a job at Facebook specifically, nobody is gonna care what Mark Fuckerberg thinks about you.

Your hypothetical on extremist sites is quite nonsensical. Why would anybody sign up for those sites to criticize that ideology when they're guaranteed to be immediately banned/doxxed for said criticism? You can criticize extremism freely anywhere else on the internet. Besides, if the government were to implement a social credit score similar to China's, the content of what you post would definitely be taken into consideration just as much as where you post it.

As long as we have a competent, functioning government, we don't need to worry about corporations gaining this much control over our personal lives. Though I will grant you that our government at the moment is neither competent nor functioning properly, so I can understand where your concerns are coming from. Oligarchy is much more likely than anarchy to be the end of America as we know it.

 

[notimp]

Though I will grant you that our government at the moment is neither competent nor functioning properly, so I can understand where your concerns are coming from. Oligarchy is much more likely than anarchy to be the end of America as we know it.

Watch Succession ( https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7660850/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 ). Not because its 'true' - its fiction, but because it gives you a different story perspective.

Or start reading f.e. The Economist. If you start to criticise politics and intellectual elites at the same time, its good to know some of the ambiguity surrounding those fields.

As for oligopoly - if you can - read up or watch a little about the history of past political conventions. I don't want to impose any judgement (I'm more on your side of the argument anyhow) - but its not 'that' black and white. (The US reaches oligopoly and then its over.. )

 

[morvoran]

These are all just hypotheticals mixed with paranoia for the time being.

I was trying to put myself into the mindset of a leftist when I typed my reply. That explains the hypothetical paranoia.
Also, I'm sure that is also what the folks in China said before this whole "social credit score" was even a thing. If you used critical thinking skills while reading what I said, you would see that I used future-tense language.

You can pursue any career path successfully without creating a Facebook account.

Right now in this point in time, if you do have a Facebook account and, for example, have a few pictures of you kicking your cat or smoking pot, a potential employer could look at your profile and determine that you're not a good candidate for their company.
I never said you couldn't pursue a career without an account. You're pulling straws out of nowhere. This goes back to your hypothetical response and my critical thinking reply.

Your hypothetical on extremist sites is quite nonsensical. Why would anybody sign up for those sites to criticize that ideology when they're guaranteed to be immediately banned/doxxed for said criticism?

Again with hypothetical. Just because you don't think you would do something doesn't mean nobody else would. Would you stick a knife in a toaster? I hope not, but they say not to do that in the instructions for a reason. Why would leftist protesters go to a straight pride parade or a alt-right rally? Not hypothetical or nonsensical.

As long as we have a competent, functioning government, we don't need to worry about corporations gaining this much control over our personal lives.

I agree. I dread how close 2025 is when we will no longer have a competent, functioning government and go back to the old status quo.

Though I will grant you that our government at the moment is neither competent nor functioning properly, so I can understand where your concerns are coming from.

I also agree with you here. Don't worry, after the republicans take back the House next year, it will get a whole lot better for all of us. Maybe not better for your emotions, but much better for your well-being.

If you think people have it bad in the China CSR now (though, you probably think it's a utopia), imagine how horrible it will be in the Democratic Socialist States of America. You will wish for the days when we had a social credit system as fair as China's.

 

[FAST6191]

These are all just hypotheticals mixed with paranoia for the time being. You can pursue any career path successfully without creating a Facebook account. And if they ever decide to start assigning arbitrary ratings to individuals, then every other social media platform will start assigning their own ratings based on different criteria, making all of them meaningless. Unless you're applying for a job at Facebook specifically, nobody is gonna care what Mark Fuckerberg thinks about you.

Your hypothetical on extremist sites is quite nonsensical. Why would anybody sign up for those sites to criticize that ideology when they're guaranteed to be immediately banned/doxxed for said criticism? You can criticize extremism freely anywhere else on the internet. Besides, if the government were to implement a social credit score similar to China's, the content of what you post would definitely be taken into consideration just as much as where you post it.

As long as we have a competent, functioning government, we don't need to worry about corporations gaining this much control over our personal lives. Though I will grant you that our government at the moment is neither competent nor functioning properly, so I can understand where your concerns are coming from. Oligarchy is much more likely than anarchy to be the end of America as we know it.

There is a difference between pursue and pursue easily. You can pursue most careers without a driving test but depending upon where you are in the world it is awfully limiting in a lot of them. While a lack of (active) Facebook is not as bad at this point it is a limiting thing for a surprisingly wide selection of fields, and it is not even just yours you have to worry about if friends have you on a night out doing a technicolour yawn or something.
Given quite how abused the credit system was in the US, and while some places stopped it companies years ago compelling people to log into their facebook account for HR to have a perusal.

While I can see a race to the bottom/every fool and his dog setting up a scoring system then do you really imagine there will not be a big 5 that everybody properly pays attention to with the others being the shop posting bounced cheques compared to equifax?

Depending upon what gets categorised as an extremist site then there are still plenty that welcome a challenge, and some would probably classify this site as unpleasant (we have threads and happily allow discussion on any number of things, individuals, topics and allow points of view that would get us pillorised by vice, buzzfeed and even youtube these days).
Also you really expect a what and where to both be accounted for? For a court it would be required but given... I was watching a Q&A with one of the 1 million + sub youtube gun channels the other day. He said he had to remove his videos featuring bump stocks lest he be banned. This is a historical weapons channel that details all sorts of new and interesting or historical guns, laws surrounding them and more besides. If youtube can't then be bothered to get someone to click the mark as safe button on that then what hope does Johnny Pleb have? Similarly do you imagine the info will not be categorised by potentially dodgy site and then content such that bored HR peeps just toss anything with it regardless of what was said?

Competent government? Did you come from an alternate reality where there is an even passingly, never mind consistently, tech competent government? Similarly there is a difference between control and just having enough information to do some seriously questionable and unpleasant things. Not to mention how much modern govs like outsourcing things to the private sector.

 

[Xzi]

I was trying to put myself into the mindset of a leftist when I typed my reply. That explains the hypothetical paranoia.

Nice try, but very few leftists complain about the common sense rules on most social media platforms such as "don't post death threats/violent content." Nor is conspiracy theory/extreme paranoia typically within the realm of the left-wing these days.

Also, I'm sure that is also what the folks in China said before this whole "social credit score" was even a thing.

I have a hard time believing that, the Chinese government has been highly authoritarian for a very long time. Maybe the majority didn't see it coming, but still a very large number would have.

Right now in this point in time, if you do have a Facebook account and, for example, have a few pictures of you kicking your cat or smoking pot, a potential employer could look at your profile and determine that you're not a good candidate for their company.

Are you seriously implying that smoking weed is as bad as kicking your cat? And why on earth would anybody have pictures of themselves doing the latter? Ignoring the fact that you've concocted yet another ridiculous scenario, there's no reason anybody should have the entirety of their Facebook profile set to public anyway.

Why would leftist protesters go to a straight pride parade or a alt-right rally? Not hypothetical or nonsensical.

Perhaps because those things are antithetical to everything America is meant to represent? That's not really on topic, though.

I agree. I dread how close 2025 is when we will no longer have a competent, functioning government and go back to the old status quo.

As opposed to the new status quo in which all corporations (including Facebook) go completely unchecked? If we get four more years of Trump, your nightmare conspiracy theories might just come true. I won't be sticking around for that, I'll be laughing at you reaping what you've sown from a country that doesn't trample over its working class citizens.

If you think people have it bad in the China CSR now (though, you probably think it's a utopia), imagine how horrible it will be in the Democratic Socialist States of America.

Yeah, affordable healthcare and education on par with every other first-world nation. Sounds absolutely horrible.

I distinctly remember a certain orange blowhard promising these things too, but only time will tell if Republican voters hold him accountable for those lies.

 

[morvoran]

Nice try, but very few leftists complain about the common sense rules on most social media platforms such as "don't post death threats/violent content." Nor is conspiracy theory/extreme paranoia typically within the realm of the left-wing these days.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, whatever. Ok, *phew* that was funny. Let's keep this somewhat serious, please. My heart couldn't take another gem like that one. This is so incredibly laughable that I can't even respond to it.

a very large number would have.

Like some person on this site with a username containing only 3 letters, a lot of Chinese have been brainwashed into believing communism is a good thing or are just Chinese nationalists. They may or may not have seen this system being brought in play, but either way, they feel in their heads that if it comes from their government, then it is good.

Are you seriously implying that smoking weed is as bad as kicking your cat? And why on earth would anybody have pictures of themselves doing the latter?

I'm not implying anything. In the US, even in states that have legal cannabis, it is still again federal law, so employers have the right to not hire you for using. Again, critical thinking.... look it up please.
Also.....
YouTuber allegedly filmed himself abusing and killing his cat

Perhaps because those things are antithetical to everything America is meant to represent?

This is your opinion base on what your leftist leaders tell you to feel. There are good people on both sides. It is on topic because your social credit score will be affected by who you associate with or seen with.

How is "straight pride" antithetical? How were you brought into this world? By cloning? Now, I'm only guessing here, but I'm sure it was through heterosexual fornication. I thought love is love, and you should be proud about who you love.

Yeah, affordable healthcare and education on par with every other first-world nation. Sounds absolutely horrible.

You only think about the good things.
You're like a dad, who is the sole income earner in his family, on Christmas thanking his wife and kids for all the gifts "they" bought him.
None of those "things" the socialists are promising you will be free, affordable, or good if they have to take over half your paycheck in taxes to pay for them.

 

[Xzi]

Ok, whatever. Ok, *phew* that was funny. Let's keep this somewhat serious, please. My heart couldn't take another gem like that one. This is so incredibly laughable that I can't even respond to it.

Dipshit righties took all the fun and thought-provoking concepts out of conspiracy unfortunately. Every conspiracy theory ties in to pedophilia (QAnon) and/or Hillary Clinton now. Simply criticizing Trump will get you banned from most conspiracy sites/groups these days.

Like some person on this site with a username containing only 3 letters, a lot of Chinese have been brainwashed into believing communism is a good thing or are just Chinese nationalists. They may or may not have seen this system being brought in play, but either way, they feel in their heads that if it comes from their government, then it is good.

You clearly can't tell the difference between Communism, Socialism, authoritarianism, and fascism. The latter two are far more descriptive of the modern Chinese government, and you seem to be supportive of these concepts. Like I said: make up your mind as to whether you love or hate oligarchy, and maybe this discussion will go somewhere.

I'm not implying anything. In the US, even in states that have legal cannabis, it is still again federal law, so employers have the right to not hire you for using.

I didn't contest that employers might find smoking pot to be disqualifying, I was gauging whether you actually believe that smoking pot is as bad as abusing a pet.

YouTuber allegedly filmed himself abusing and killing his cat

Okay, so I should've said anybody who's sane. If you post this type of thing publicly, you absolutely deserve to be shunned from employment and society in general.

This is your opinion base on what your leftist leaders tell you to feel. There are good people on both sides. It is on topic because your social credit score will be affected by who you associate with or seen with.

We don't need a social credit system for employers to want to distance themselves from abhorrent behavior/beliefs. Those things tend to be bad for business already, when the idea is to attract as wide a customer base as possible.

How is "straight pride" antithetical? How were you brought into this world? By cloning? Now, I'm only guessing here, but I'm sure it was through heterosexual fornication. I thought love is love, and you should be proud about who you love.

Both "straight pride" and the "alt-right" are heavily intertwined with confederate and nazi ideologies, both of which this country has gone to war against and decisively defeated. Their paper-thin masks aren't fooling anybody.

None of those "things" the socialists are promising you will be free, affordable, or good if they have to take over half your paycheck in taxes to pay for them.

As it stands now, one medical emergency can put you in debt for life, so even though your estimate of "half your paycheck" is bullshit, it'd still be a far cheaper alternative to our broken system. The cost of basic necessities like insulin is literally killing people in this country.

 

[dAVID_]

Oh well, it's only a matter of time before China is on the same level as North Korea.

 

[Viri]

Hah, I bet govs in the west are taking note of this.

 

[Hanafuda]

the world's gonna end before this gets fully implimented thanks to rocket man kim and mother russia....and yes your talking to an unstable man who nearly lost everything and doesn't care if humanity lives or dies off (I answered your question before you even asked it)

I hope you find your way out of the deep blue funk. I had one of my own children die in my arms, so you're not gonna find me to be an especially sympathetic ear for how you 'nearly lost everything' unless you can beat that.

 

[Xzi]

Hah, I bet govs in the west are taking note of this.

It's the opposite in the West: most of our politicians are content to let corporations dictate how government is run instead of the other way around. Not that I believe government should have absolute control over the daily operation of corporations, but some common sense regulations are a necessity when it comes to entities driven solely by the profit motive.