Hardware The 3ds and how 3 screens are better than one

[wolfmanz51]

Well there seems to be alot of disscusion about the 3ds screens im here to shed some light on this. So i made a reply to a post in a topic about the 3DS screens being a failure with some facts and perspective on how the 3d Screens work but this seemed to confuse the topic creator as i was not clear so this article is born.

Well think of it this way the DS has two screens and the 3DS has 3 (well not really but one displays as 2 separate images from one screen) one for touch input and two for stereoscopic 3D. Think about sound mono output is limited and stereo is superior because you have 2 ears and the speakers can only create so much sound so having 2 doubles the sound capacity and perception by the brain. It is the same with the 3DS There are 2 images generated each with there own separate detail and representation of whats going on in the 3d rendered game world. Just as you have two ears you also have two eyes which used in conjunction is vastly superior than one eye.

So to clear up this there is a misconception that because you can turn the 3d off that the 3DS resolution is only 400x240 but its actually is 800x240 just only while the 3D effect is on. The resolution is really 400x240 400x240 no thats not a typo i put it twice to put it into perspective there is a reason nintendo wants you to see it for yourself. Its hard to imagine that detail and depth in 2d video or still 2d images that only show half this perception. all the screens we've seen show half of what the 3DS outputs. yes those Beautiful games actually are even better than they all ready look and thats why people are so blown away by the 3ds its the depth.

wait a minute how does the 3DS do that you say well to quote tk_satrurn

The 3DS has 2 screens, each eye will see alternating columns of the top screen. A parallax barrier will prevent the left eye seeing what the right eye sees, and vice versa. When you turn off 3D, the internal resolution of the 3DS will be Anamorphic 400x240. If the resolution was 800x240 with 3D off, then people at E3 would have seen a massive improvement in graphics with 3D off. This would be bad press for it's 3D which is it's main selling point, Nintendo wouldn't like that.

In contrast conventional stereo 3D requires half of the light emitted by the display to be used for each eye. Where each image is flashed one at a time to each eye using high speed shutters, reducing overall clarity. Not so with 3DS, it displays both images at once at reported locked 30-60fps.
Anywho just use your imagination and you will see why Game developers are excited to put there contend on Nintendo's system or wait to see it yourself.

Here is some raw info to put things in perspective
on the 3DS there are 96000px for each eye on a 3.53" screen thats 132.15PPI (pixels per inch)
a 480p tv is 21PPI on a 42" inch screen
a 1080p tv is 52PPI on a 42" inch screen
a PSP is 480×272 128PPI on a 4.3"

 

[tk_saturn]

Let's not make this confusing shall we?

The 3DS has 2 screens, each eye will see alternating columns of the top screen. A parallax barrier will prevent the left eye seeing what the right eye sees, and vice versa.

When you turn off 3D, the internal resolution of the 3DS will be Anamorphic 400x240. If the resolution was 800x240 with 3D off, then people at E3 would have seen a massive improvement in graphics with 3D off. This would be bad press for it's 3D which is it's main selling point, Nintendo wouldn't like that.

If I use the Wii as an example, it has a rendered resolution of 640x480. I doesn't matter if it's on a 4:3 TV or a 16:9 widescreen TV, it still renders in 640x480.

 

[worlok375]

Let's not make this confusing shall we?

The 3DS has 2 screens, each eye will see alternating columns of the top screen.

When you turn off 3D, the internal resolution of the 3DS will be Anamorphic 400x240. If the resolution was 800x240 with 3D off, them people at E3 would have seen a massive improvement in graphics with 3D off. This would 3D bad press, Nintendo wouldn't like that.

This. 1+

 

[wolfmanz51]

Let's not make this confusing shall we?

The 3DS has 2 screens, each eye will see alternating columns of the top screen. A parallax barrier will prevent the left eye seeing what the right eye sees, and vice versa.

When you turn off 3D, the internal resolution of the 3DS will be Anamorphic 400x240. If the resolution was 800x240 with 3D off, then people at E3 would have seen a massive improvement in graphics with 3D off. This would be bad press for it's 3D which is it's main selling point, Nintendo wouldn't like that.

i never said it was 800x240 with the 3d off now did I? but the screen is 800x240 pixels but ill edit my post to make that clear

 

[tk_saturn]

i never said it was 800x240 with the 3d off now did I? but the screen is 800x240 pixels but ill edit my post to make that clear
Yes you did.

QUOTE(wolfmanz51 @ Jun 25 2010, 09:52 PM) So to clear up this there is a misconception that because you can turn the 3d off that the 3DS resolution is only 400x240 but its actually is 800x240

 

[wolfmanz51]

i never said it was 800x240 with the 3d off now did I? but the screen is 800x240 pixels but ill edit my post to make that clear
Yes you did.

QUOTE(wolfmanz51 @ Jun 25 2010, 09:52 PM) So to clear up this there is a misconception that because you can turn the 3d off that the 3DS resolution is only 400x240 but its actually is 800x240 just only while the 3D effect is on.

you forgot part of that. please dont misconstrue my words im just trying to help people understand how the 3ds screen looks and works

 

[worlok375]

i never said it was 800x240 with the 3d off now did I? but the screen is 800x240 pixels but ill edit my post to make that clear
Yes you did.

QUOTE(wolfmanz51 @ Jun 25 2010, 09:52 PM) So to clear up this there is a misconception that because you can turn the 3d off that the 3DS resolution is only 400x240 but its actually is 800x240 just only while the 3D effect is on.

you forgot part of that. please dont misconstrue my words im just trying to help people understand how the 3ds screen looks and works

Actually he didn't forget part of it, you edited it in there.

 

[wolfmanz51]

i never said it was 800x240 with the 3d off now did I? but the screen is 800x240 pixels but ill edit my post to make that clear
Yes you did.

QUOTE(wolfmanz51 @ Jun 25 2010, 09:52 PM) So to clear up this there is a misconception that because you can turn the 3d off that the 3DS resolution is only 400x240 but its actually is 800x240 just only while the 3D effect is on.

you forgot part of that. please dont misconstrue my words im just trying to help people understand how the 3ds screen looks and works

Actually he didn't forget part of it, you edited it in there.

gee guys thanks for contributing to the topic and helping people understand the 3ds you really helped....last time i write a article on GBAtemp...

 

[tk_saturn]

gee guys thanks for contributing to the topic and helping people understand the 3ds you really helped....last time i write a article on GBAtemp...

What you've done is make the 3D in the 3DS very hard to understand, I find your entire post confusing. Telling people it has 3 screens? it doesn't.

Are you trying to confuse people? it's not that complicated.

 

[worlok375]

gee guys thanks for contributing to the topic and helping people understand the 3ds you really helped....last time i write a article on GBAtemp...

Ah the good old trying to make others feel bad about it.

^^ Oh and tk, one error in your post, wolfmanz only used that as an example, however this did make it more confusing.

 

[pachura]

I don't get it. Shouldn't the barrier be between human eyes and the LCD ?

 

[tk_saturn]

There's a more in depth explanation http://sharp-world.com/corporate/info/rd/tj4/pdf/4.pdf According to that, the barrier can being either at the front or the back.

 

[worlok375]

*snip*

I don't get it. Shouldn't the barrier be between human eyes and the LCD ?

The barrier is for separating the light depending on which eye is supposed to see it.

 

[tk_saturn]

What I find amazing is how long this has been around. The PDF on Sharp's site is from 2003, in that they mention they have a 2002 retail mobile phone with a 2.2" 2D/3D screen. What's taken it so long? a mobile phone from 8 years ago has the same technology.

 

[Arm73]

Let's not make this confusing shall we?

The 3DS has 2 screens, each eye will see alternating columns of the top screen. A parallax barrier will prevent the left eye seeing what the right eye sees, and vice versa.

When you turn off 3D, the internal resolution of the 3DS will be Anamorphic 400x240. If the resolution was 800x240 with 3D off, then people at E3 would have seen a massive improvement in graphics with 3D off. This would be bad press for it's 3D which is it's main selling point, Nintendo wouldn't like that.

If I use the Wii as an example, it has a rendered resolution of 640x480. I doesn't matter if it's on a 4:3 TV or a 16:9 widescreen TV, it still renders in 640x480.

LOL , I don't really wanna go OT, however:
You are giving us lessons and explanations about a yet-to-be-released system and you don't even know how your Wii works.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your posts and your efforts to provide a simple explanation on the 3DS screens, but you should get your facts straight about the Wii first of all.
The Wii outputs an anamorphic widescreen resolution, 854x480 ( when you set it at 16:9 ), which you have to stretch out with your television to get the correct aspect ratio. Some games don't use up all that ,Metroid 3 is supposedly 825x470 according to IGN.
It also does have (as u stated) anamorphic widescreen (stretched) , but only when GC games are being run, or games that don't support wide screen resolution at all ( just 4:3).
An easy way to find out if a game is really wide screen or stretched, is to press the HOME button on the Wii while playing the game and bring out the menu.
If in your Wii settings you set it at 16:9, it should look fine ( and so it does on 16:9 capable games ), but if the game is let's say Rayman raving rabbits, which doesn't really use up the whole available resolution ( it just stretches to give a fake wide screen aspect ratio ) then the HOME menu will look stretched as well.
So basically it's up to the games, but I assure you, in widescreen the Wii outputs more horizontal pixels then standard 640x480 ( and that would be 854x480 ).
The number of lines from left to right does in fact change. According to the 480p Wiki page, it's 704 or 720 lines for 4:3 and 854 lines for 16:9. So 4:3 works out to about 720x480 for screen resolution and 16:9 is 854x480 in 480p display.
Now, regardless of the final 3DS resolution, I'm sure games will look totally fine , because the size of the pixels is proportional to the size of the screen.

 

[Salax]

...This is still the most confusing explanation I've ever heard.

 

[wolfmanz51]

What you've done is make the 3D in the 3DS very hard to understand, I find your entire post confusing. Telling people it has 3 screens? it doesn't.

Are you trying to confuse people? it's not that complicated.

its just a play on words to draw the reader in i explained its not accualy 3 and im not trying to explain how a paralex barier works i was trying to explain how Stereoscopic 3d looks and that it is better than 2d viewing

 

[tk_saturn]

LOL , I don't really wanna go OT, however:
You are giving us lessons and explanations about a yet-to-be-released system and you don't even know how your Wii works.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your posts and your efforts to provide a simple explanation on the 3DS screens, but you should get your facts straight about the Wii first of all.
The Wii outputs an anamorphic widescreen resolution, 854x480 ( when you set it at 16:9 ), which you have to stretch out with your television to get the correct aspect ratio. Some games don't use up all that ,Metroid 3 is supposedly 825x470 according to IGN.
It also does have (as u stated) anamorphic widescreen (stretched) , but only when GC games are being run, or games that don't support wide screen resolution at all ( just 4:3).
An easy way to find out if a game is really wide screen or stretched, is to press the HOME button on the Wii while playing the game and bring out the menu.
If in your Wii settings you set it at 16:9, it should look fine ( and so it does on 16:9 capable games ), but if the game is let's say Rayman raving rabbits, which doesn't really use up the whole available resolution ( it just stretches to give a fake wide screen aspect ratio ) then the HOME menu will look stretched as well.
So basically it's up to the games, but I assure you, in widescreen the Wii outputs more horizontal pixels then standard 640x480 ( and that would be 854x480 ).
The number of lines from left to right does in fact change. According to the 480p Wiki page, it's 704 or 720 lines for 4:3 and 854 lines for 16:9. So 4:3 works out to about 720x480 for screen resolution and 16:9 is 854x480 in 480p display.
Now, regardless of the final 3DS resolution, I'm sure games will look totally fine , because the size of the pixels is proportional to the size of the screen.

Metroid Prime is meant to be rendered in 640x448.

I'm not refering to the resolution it's outputting, i'm refering to the internal resolution it's rendering in.

This was where I got my information from

QUOTEHere's the answer that makes sense.

The Wii internaly renders to 640x480 (or more commonly 640x448), and pastes the final frame into a 720x480 buffer for the TV-out conversion, adding black bars where necessary to make up for the pixel disparity (just as the PS2, GCN, and Xbox do). Now since humans are far more sensitive to vertical resolution vs horizontal, an arguement of 640x480 vs 848x480 is kinda silly. The 480 part is the important thing, especially for a console. In this resolution instance, we are talking a 30% performance difference for a

 

[ryan90]

it would be cool if he screen was designed so that when you turned off 3d, it could use the extra screenspace and graphics power to render the scene in 800x240 as in 2D so its sharper, i know this isn't possible but im still not 100% on why

 

[tk_saturn]

it would be cool if he screen was designed so that when you turned off 3d, it could use the extra screenspace and graphics power to render the scene in 800x240 as in 2D so its sharper, i know this isn't possible but im still not 100% on why

It's what one of the debates is about. Technically it should be able to do that, the question is will Nintendo do that? My opinion is that they won't as it could make 2D look better than 3D. Others of course may have a different opinion, I guess we won't know until it ships. I'm surprised one of the attendies at E3 didn't notice, the information may be out there somewhere on the internet.