Temp Debates

[0ddity]

with cooperation from jet™

upcoming debates:

Is abortion ethical?
Was the US Coalition invasion of Iraq correct?
Was the US Coalition invasion of Afghanistan correct?
Is Anarchy a viable political ideology
Should water be treated as a commodity that can be priced as an economic resource and traded across international boundaries? Or is it a unique common good that should be the subject of international cooperation? ( will try to shorten that)


Rules:

Spoiler

1.) Your first post addressing the subject must be in A-R-E format (Assertion, Reasoning, Evidence, and you don't need to copy the colors, that is just a key for the examples below)

Example:

Jon says:

People who's last name starts with the letter H are evil, because there have been evil people with last names starting with H in the past, such as aHitler who started WW2 and committed genocide.


2.) Following rebuttal posts must address the assertion you are rebutting, reasoning and counter-evidence/contradictions.
Example:
Jon's assertion people who's last name start with H are all evil is wrong because lots of people have a last name starting with H that aren't evil, like Tom Hanks.


3.) Please try to avoid logical fallacies, most importantly red herring, ad hominem, straw man and appeal to ridicule.
If you don't know what that means, read here:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

4.) Posts violating Rules 1-3 will not count toward the result, and the side they are arguing will lose one vote in the final tally (-1 vote per violating user, not post.)

Sorry about losing the arguments in the other thread, we had to sort out how the debates were run.

The question is, should all drugs be decriminalized for recreational use? (Not just marijuana/tobacco/alcohol.)

 

[TrolleyDave]

I'll just abuse my powers a little by copying my post from the other thread that no-one can see.

----------------------

Personally I believe that most recreational drugs should be decriminalised and regulated. As someone with experience in that particular retail market I've seen how the more sleazy dealers coerce people into moving on from reasonably safe drugs to soul stealing life affecting drugs such as crack and heroin. If you took away the opportunity for them to convince those people to start in the first place it would cut down on the number of new addicts. There would of course always be those that become them, but for those just looking for a weekends worth of smoke they can get just that without having a silver tongued twat with no morals talk them into taking physically addictive drugs. It would also increase taxes and cut down on some gang activity because the control of said drugs would be taken away from them. Another effect would be to make sure that the drugs are clean and not cut with whatever cheap material is at hand. Drugs have been and always will be a part of human existence, not everyone takes them but there will always be that counter-culture. Better to control it then to have it be underground.

edit : With the exception of crack and heroin, they should remain illegal and in all honesty I believe punishments for the cooking and selling them should be harsher. In my experience they are 2 of the most life and soul destroying drugs along with alcohol.

 

[mameks]

I dunno...I mean, some drugs should be legalised, in order to keep tabs on them, as Trolley said. However, if they are legalised, prices will likely go up, due to tax etc.
This would mean that there would still be the 'underground' dealer/slime-balls selling for less, but getting more money, as people would go, "oooh! cheap drugs

i'll get them off this guy, instead of getting what i know will be good quality [insert drug here]." And because it's cheaper, they'd go back more, use more, become more addicted, thus, it would still fail epically.

 

[Uncle FEFL]

I'll color-code it as well, since it seems fun.

I believe all drugs should be decriminalized. However, smuggling should remain illegal, drugs used in contests should remain illegal if you're in said contest (like sports and steroids), and very strict rules on amount per use, where it can be used, and when (as well as how many times per day) it can be used. Too many people are in jail for the usage of drugs, which takes money from us, and they overcrowd it. A person should be able to take what they want if it is dangerous, but in strict limits on how it can be used. We've got these limits on over-the-counter drugs as well. While it is true that people should have the common sense to not do drugs that only get you high and destroy your body in the process, people still do them. I think we should put more effort into getting help, rather than putting them all in jail. It takes billions of dollars to keep our prison system running, and it's just wasted effort to put someone in jail for something like heroine, get out, do more heroine, and go back into jail. We have the freedom and the right to do many other things that harm our bodies, and drugs should be part of that freedom.

 

[TrolleyDave]

I dunno...I mean, some drugs should be legalised, in order to keep tabs on them, as Trolley said. However, if they are legalised, prices will likely go up, due to tax etc.
This would mean that there would still be the 'underground' dealer/slime-balls selling for less, but getting more money, as people would go, "oooh! cheap drugs

i'll get them off this guy, instead of getting what i know will be good quality [insert drug here]." And because it's cheaper, they'd go back more, use more, become more addicted, thus, it would still fail epically.

Very valid points, but the onus would be on the government to ensure that the drugs are kept down to a rate the dealers and smugglers couldn't compete with. If the drugs were produced in-country there wouldn't be the cost of smuggling, risk assessment etc. whacked on top of them. Marijuana is actually pretty cheap to produce compared to the amount it's sold at street level.

 

[Deleted User]

I believe drugs should not be legalized for recreational use. If that happened, people could legally sell life-threatening drugs on the street. If they were decriminalized, they would have to be really strict on the regulations.

 

[0ddity]

I think all drugs should be legal for adults to use at their own risk. Making something illegal doesn't stop it at all, it just feeds the prison system, causing a huge tax burden in imprisonment and drug enforcement, money that could be much better used on rehab programs and education. Making them illegal gives criminals an easy source of money, and the foreign drug market in the US is draining billions from the economy, as the money is being sent out of the country to the producers of the drug, not to mention lost tax revenue. As for health factors, alcohol and tobacco are obscenely unhealthy, but we let adults make that decision on their own. I think in the USA, one of the most basic freedoms is the ability to control what goes on in your own mind, to control your own thoughts, and all drugs are is a way to control what goes on in your own mind.

 

[scrtmstr]

Some drugs should be legalised everywhere, and in the Netherlands they already are. The policy here is working well from my point of view. You're not allowed in coffeeshops until you're 18, there is quite strict police enforcement. Drugchecks aren't a rarity over here, and more then 5 grams isn't allowed for most drugs, which is enough to get you quite high. Using drugs in public is prohibited, so you don't bother anyone, and this is checked very regularly. Some drugs are not allowed, and should never be allowed like cocaïne and stuff. The real [censored] Drugs. But weed and XTC is allowed, and doesn't do to much harm when used once or twice, or even on a regular basis. This is what they teach you in primary school, and you get to hold the drugs, along with a video to show you the effects. As a little kid, you'll get scared by that.

Smugglers are obviously present, they're called 'drugsrunners'. But the police does everything to stop them, with quite a lot of succes. The guys try to smuggle drugs from The Netherlands into Belgium or Germany, and then on to France and other countries. Here is a video of a couple of the chases:
Just to clarify about the speed, the max. speed in Holland is 65 MPH/120KPH. Speeds that are reached here exceed 180-200Kph (110-120Mph, and there are chases where the police had to use a supercar like a lamborghini. Those chases went up to 260Kph and higher)

In short: some drugs should be legalised, except the [censored] drugs and with a maximum amount you can have on you, like the 5 gram limit in the Netherlands. But with it, should come education for kids in primary and high school for the dangers. Smugling is a problem, but it can be held in check as you saw in the video.

 

[TrolleyDave]

I believe drugs should not be legalized for recreational use. If that happened, people could legally sell life-threatening drugs on the street. If they were decriminalized, they would have to be really strict on the regulations.

Why would legalising it mean that they couldn't regulate it? Alcohol is completely legal but you have to be licensed to sell it, at least in the UK. Even if it was legalised it could still be strictly regulated. You could also increase punishments for street level dealers, making it not worth the effort of competing with lecensed agents.

 

[Megane]

Yes all drugs should be legalize,

I mean poeple take those anyway,

We could make big money with it.

In Quebec(Canada) the alcool distribution system is public and it's working very well.

 

[0ddity]

I believe drugs should not be legalized for recreational use. If that happened, people could legally sell life-threatening drugs on the street. If they were decriminalized, they would have to be really strict on the regulations.

Regarding your reasoning, people already sell life-threatening drugs on the street. Decriminalizing the drugs would give the users a safer alternative to street dealers, and I agree, they should be regulated and taxed, like alcohol and tobacco. Dealing drugs on the street unregulated should still be illegal, but we should be punishing illegal dealers, not end users.

 

[Ritsuki]

legalize = regulation = tax = more money for the country/state/city/government/etc...

Look what they've done with prostitution in Amsterdam.

 

[DS1]

Illegal drugs are a poison to the wellbeing of society, because the illegal drug trade causes the death of 1-2 minors a week on average in my city, according to police reports and statistics that show that 80-90% of violent crimes are drug-related.

edit: Thanks Dave!

edit2: My answer is all drugs should be legalized, even rather harmful ones (the big drugs in my city are Cocaine and Crystal Meth), but this is assuming the Government would take complete control. Of course, in my country, big corporations hold the majority of the power and so government regulation is feared. So this wouldn't really work in the United States, but for the sake of argument, let's say it would.

 

[Shinigami357]

I believe personally, that drugs, especially those that are used to manipulate the human mind "for recreational purposes", should not be legalized. By this, I mean that since the human mind is very fragile and is of utmost importance to the being, there should be no tampering with it, by chemical means or otherwise for pure recreation. As the saying goes" a mind is a terrible thing to waste", and rightfully so, because a person whose mind (when I say mind, I refer to to the abstract that is created by the neurons in the brain, not the brain itself) - and to a point, brain - has been tampered with, will (for the most part) slowly but surely lose control of himself, consciously or otherwise (at this point, it is known as addiction). Furthermore, a human body is only capable of receiving so much destructive impulses by its nerve center, as well as the waste-filtering organs that start to fail as the person increases the consumption, and thus starts a domino effect that harms the person greatly. The fact that the human mind, brain and body can - and will - start to self-destruct at the introduction of a foreign substance designed for neural manipulation is well documented in science. Furthermore, alcohol, a substance that also manipulates the mind, while a controlled substance, has been shown to cause normally logical and well-behaved humans to commit acts or cause accidents that result in untoward harm and death to the user (or in this case, drinker) and others.

I rest my case.


- Final Thought -
If only for recreation, are there not other means by which civilized humans may indulge themselves? Does Earth not have a rich culture, great art, music, literature, food, film, video games, sports, beautiful scenery, etc that lends itself to the enjoyment of the individual?

 

[BobTheJoeBob]

No, not all drugs, only some. If all drugs were to be made legal, not only would it put a drug abuser at risk, but also people around him who have nothing to do with him. Similar to what happens with alcohol at times.

 

[Uncle FEFL]

So, is anyone gonna actually argue, or are we all just stating some opinions and leaving it at that?

 

[RE4zombie]

I am straight edge, and as such believe all drugs should be made illegal. For people's own safety, and for the fact that they destroy lives. However, I know this will never happen because the law would never be able to enforce all the new crimes. If society legalized all drugs, it would be less productive and people's lives would be broken even more.

 

[TrolleyDave]

So, is anyone gonna actually argue, or are we all just stating some opinions and leaving it at that?

Not enough conflicting opinions yet! lol Most people seem to be agreeing that the positive change would be legalisation/decriminalisation.

QUOTE(RE4zombie @ Sep 12 2010, 08:16 PM) I am straight edge, and as such believe all drugs should be made illegal. For people's own safety, and for the fact that they destroy lives. However, I know this will never happen because the law would never be able to enforce all the new crimes. If society legalized all drugs, it would be less productive and people's lives would be broken even more.

Why do you think it would be worse for society if they were legalised? Like why do you believe society would become less productive and it would cause even more broken lives than while illegal and underground?

 

[injected11]

I am straight edge, and as such believe all drugs should be made illegal. For people's own safety, and for the fact that they destroy lives. However, I know this will never happen because the law would never be able to enforce all the new crimes. If society legalized all drugs, it would be less productive and people's lives would be broken even more.

I'd argue that drugs are our modern-day Darwinistic influence since we lack any real natural predators. Decriminalizing them wouldn't force anyone to use them, just give them the viable option. If they choose to use a drug and destroy their mind and body, it was their own choice. I honestly think we need SOMETHING to 'thin the herd' so to speak, allowing the more intelligent and more responsible to flourish, reproduce at higher rates, and grow the species, but I refuse to outright advocate the death of anyone for the purpose of progress.

 

[_Chaz_]

I believe that some drugs should be decriminalized, such as marijuana (I don't smoke the stuff, mind you). However, some drugs should also remain criminalized, such as heroine. Some illegal drugs have no negative side effects outside of making some people look like idiots, while more dangerous drugs like alcohol and even OTC pills are legal and kill hundreds every year. But some can be deadly after only one use and have no way of becoming regulated by the government. Simply reading up on the side effects of some common, legal and illegal substances can provide enough evidence to back my claims. Also, having some common sense of what not to put into your own body would be helpful as well.