Hacking Discussion SX EmuNAND is not real EmuNAND.

[Joom]

You can partition an SD card on a computer. Imagine the outrage if simply a partitioned SD card banned people. True, it's probably not common for the end user to do, but it's still something someone without any intent to hack or bypass security could do.

Right, except an EmuNAND is very specific and easy to detect. It doesn't use a standard filesystem, and is a big, sore thumb on a partition table. It doesn't look like a benign partition. There's already long posts from the 3DS scene as to how Nintendo could easily mitigate it.

 

[Flying Scotsman]

That's not an analysis, that's a screenshot not detailing shit.

Right because it's still not early days of release. That is what is available at time of posting. Given a week - sure there'd be more info on it but a day?

How do you know? Again, nobody has taken a look at the actual telemetry. Whether or not this is collected hasn't been proven, because again, you all ride the coattails of spoon feeders. Grab a PCAP for fuck's sake. Show us this will actually happen.

Oh I have before (albeit accidentally) when I was dicking about with the Switch but this was back on 4.1 and yes, it was sent twice when I loaded up the eShop (or so Wireshark mentioned - something definitely was sent) but I didn't pay much attention to it as at the time - I wasn't actually looking for Telemetry info (it just appeared).

I don't own a Switch, so therefore, no, I can't. And what you're proving to me is that you'd believe that the sky is green if somebody told you it was.

Then why not cut the attitude and discuss with those who can do an analysis? Going by your attitude, you seem frustrated that no inroads are being made - so why not contact someone who can get you a network traffic dump or decompiled payload and check it for yourself? No Switch required in that situation and you'd be helping the scene.

 

[Ty_]

I think having a separate topic is much more easier to see immediately about the dangers of sx os emunand.

Yeah I think for something this serious it warrants a separate noticeable thread

 

[froggestspirit]

Right, except an EmuNAND is very specific and easy to detect. It doesn't use a standard filesystem, and is a big, sore thumb on a partition table. It doesn't look like a benign partition.

While you do have a point there, a computer can be used to alter an SD partition in any way. The red flag is mostly from the fact that the NAND partition is modified, because that should not happen in a normal case. Generally with proper SD redirection, the system will not be able to tell the difference between the Emunand partition and the real nand (at the time of using, only being able to access the active nand). When this is cloned, then it is indistinguishable to nintendo. That being said, I still belive myself that the SD emunand isn't completely foolproof, but still safer than an "unmodifiable" nand being resized.

 

[Joom]

While you do have a point there, a computer can be used to alter an SD partition in any way. The red flag is mostly from the fact that the NAND partition is modified, because that should not happen in a normal case. Generally with proper SD redirection, the system will not be able to tell the difference between the Emunand partition and the real nand (at the time of using, only being able to access the active nand). When this is cloned, then it is indistinguishable to nintendo. That being said, I still belive myself that the SD emunand isn't completely foolproof, but still safer than an "unmodifiable" nand being resized.

All Nintendo would have to do is perform a sanitization check on the SD's partition table upon boot, and done. This can be done before the OS is ever loaded.

Right because it's still not early days of release. That is what is available at time of posting. Given a week - sure there'd be more info on it but a day?

Why would this take a week? Just create the EmuNAND and monitor what happens. It should literally take no less than an hour. I don't even know why I would be required to do this either when somebody with all the necessary materials before them could do it quicker.

 

[bodefuceta]

Is there any point in using emuNAND if you can't use OFW?

 

[Ashura66]

Is there any point in using emuNAND if you can't use OFW?

What do you mean if you can't use OFW?

 

[Flying Scotsman]

What do you mean if you can't use OFW?

The running theory is Ninty can use telemetry to detect the weird NAND size discrepancies and take action - ala if you go into OFW, the "emunand" is detected and you're banned. He's more a less saying "what's the point in an emunand if we can't go into OFW to go Online because it could be detected, and the console banned."

 

[Huntereb]

It's most likely due to Nintendo's buggy ExFat driver.

ExFat is a file system format, it has nothing to do with the way people expect emunand to work.

No i dont need to know, I'm not going to use it, no need to as everything works with out it.

Why not? You paid good money for that feature, surely it was worth every penny!

 

[Ashura66]

The running theory is Ninty can use telemetry to detect the weird NAND size discrepancies and take action - ala if you go into OFW, the "emunand" is detected and you're banned. He's more a less saying "what's the point in an emunand if we can't go into OFW to go Online because it could be detected, and the console banned."

Oh right right, gotcha. Yeah no benefit whatsoever

 

[Joom]

Oh right right, gotcha. Yeah no benefit whatsoever

You're missing the keyword "theory" here. Whether or not this particular modification to the partition will set anything off has yet to be determined because nobody will put forth the effort to actually find out.

 

[Flying Scotsman]

It should literally take no less than an hour. I don't even know why I would be required to do this either when somebody with all the necessary materials before them could do it quicker.

I mentioned that because you said:

You all sit around shoveling down garbage from Discord and other cesspools teeming with kids that know nothing, and you never do your own research because you got some other retard spoon feeding you said garbage.

It just so happens, those who will actually do the research (and report on it to varying degrees) are in the:-

Discord and other cesspools teeming with kids that know nothing

So logically, the only way to actually avoid "Discord [sweeping statement] and other cesspools" - is to do it yourself.

I do agree with the SD sanitisation though. It's a pretty straightforward thing to do, but whether Big N actually goes down that route - who knows. They may come up with some other hair brained way which doesn't properly work in Nintendo's usual style.

 

[AlexTCGPro]

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm probably am, but the release notes state that this 'emuNAND' is invisible to OFW and the telemetry in Nintendo's side just checks for total nand size meaning it will ignore partitions and still show 32GB to Nintendo, if those things are correct what is exactly the danger here? Can Nintendo detect ir right now? If the danger is that "Nintendo will release a new firmware update to detect it" then TX will as well to patch that

 

[bodefuceta]

You're missing the keyword "theory" here. Whether or not this particular modification to the partition will set anything off has yet to be determined because nobody will put forth the effort to actually find out.

No, it's you who missed the keyword "if" in my post.

 

[Kubas_inko]

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm probably am, but the release notes state that this 'emuNAND' is invisible to OFW and the telemetry in Nintendo's side just checks for total nand size meaning it will ignore partitions and still show 32GB to Nintendo, if those things are correct what is exactly the danger here? Can Nintendo detect ir right now? If the danger is that "Nintendo will release a new firmware update to detect it" then TX will as well to patch that

They can be invisible to each other, but you are losing 16Gb of space, which can be reported by the telemetry.

-snip-

 

[AlexTCGPro]

They can be invisible to each other, but you are losing 16Gb of space, which is reported by the telemetry.

Yes, indeed, but Nintendo can't know what that is, or can they? Could be 16gbs of pictures, of savedata, just regular memory corruption, many things, has someone actually been banned yet?

 

[SkittleDash]

So TX fucked up again? I'm just going to sit here and just shake my head in disappointment. And here I thought they did something great. Turned out they did something not so great. At this point, it's $22 - $30 (Licence only) just to get that sexy ban.

 

[Kubas_inko]

Yes, indeed, but Nintendo can't know what that is, or can they? Could be 16gbs of pictures, of savedata, just regular memory corruption, many things, has someone actually been banned yet?

It's a new partition, not a folder.

 

[Sgt. Lulz]

I don't understand why they brought up that dedicating 32GB on an SD card to EmuNAND is wasteful, then proceeded to showcase that the Switch filesystem can be resized and repartitioned in the same breath.
If you're incredibly desperate for storage space, you could fit the entire filesystem into 4GB by shrinking USER to 1.38GB:
PRODINFO/F, BCPKG*, BOOT0/1, SAFE: 122MB (Give or take one)
SYSTEM: 2.5GB
USER: The rest of the unpartitioned space

Hell, you could go as low as a destitute 2GB by shrinking SYSTEM to 902MB, given that the majority of the partition is empty space.
You can get high quality 8GB or 16GB microSD cards for less than $10 at just about any outlet or retailer, and they're a must-have in console homebrew and hacking.

All Nintendo would have to do is perform a sanitization check on the SD's partition table upon boot, and done. This can be done before the OS is ever loaded.

Why would this take a week? Just create the EmuNAND and monitor what happens. It should literally take no less than an hour. I don't even know why I would be required to do this either when somebody with all the necessary materials before them could do it quicker.

SwitchBrew has up-to-date documentation on the data fields erpt sends to Nintendo:
https://switchbrew.org/wiki/Error_Report_services#Fields
Additionally, they're legally not allowed to ban users based on what their SD card looks like. It's not bound to the Terms of Service, and their contents by themselves have no effect on the software's operation. They would've started banning people for having boot.3dsx, payload.bin, devMenu.cia or a conspicuous raw partition in their SD card a long time ago if they could.

 

[AlexTCGPro]

It's a new partition, not a folder.

Yes, in in the previous comment we agreed that Nintendo can't detect that partition, only the fact that 16GBs are missing, that could mean a lot of things, I really doubt it'll be an instant ban, as of now at least