Gaming Super Mario Kart Wii free of snaking

LokusT

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Nobody's ever going to make snakers and non-snakers see eye to eye and I'm not saying either side is right or wrong in the argument. I can snake but when I play multiplayer, I just don't. There's several reasons for it, be it that I'm playing against someone else that can or can't snake makes little difference to me because as has been mentioned before, the series has always been fun enough without the need to do it and I play it just to have fun.

the MK series has always been one of the strongest series around and snaking aside, the play mechanics have always been pretty well balanced from stats to 'items for position'. The real point I'm trying to get at is regardless how intentional an ability snaking was coded into the game, it was actually meant to be played without it really. I've seen a bit of talk on here about snaker haters finding something to complain about, I wonder how many former snakers will complain about the loss of snaking when they get beaten in a nice evenly balanced race. It's not about the winning, it's the taking part that counts!
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c2ironfist

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skillful players will find a way to win regardless if there is snaking allowed or not. Majority of players that can't snake I'm gonna safely assume aren't really good at it. I'm also going to assume don't like losing either especially by a huge margin.
 

MADKATZ99

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c2ironfist said:
maybe I can bring in the point of Jump! Ultimate Stars in. That is probably the worst online game available for the DS regarding cheating and playing cheap.

There are so many glitches in that game that were not intended for regular play, like hiding in between the walls, HP recovery glitch etc... not only that but the game itself allowed for extreme cheapness such as players getting Ringed Out with cheap techniques and so on. On top of all that there are people who use AR cheats online.

It's a ridiculously horrible experience for anyone who met a player that was extremely cheap or a cheater using either glitches or AR cheat codes.

but I loved the game and my way around it was play using friend codes, go to forums and play players using rules.

when it came to random online play I'd simply log off when there was a player who was extremely cheap, choosing not to play against them.

Despite the fact that Jump! allowed for cheap tactics did not distract me from enjoying the game, simply I chose to play players that enjoyed the same rules as I do. If you feel snaking is cheap, don't play against players that do.Good point.. but hiding between walls and HP glitches are certainly not intended for the game. mini turbos were.. Thats all your doing, mini turbo'ing a hella lot. Half the time you join a game of kart online, you see people 150cc hacking with ARs, and that is what ruined mkds wifi, not people playing legitly without altering the game in any way.

But your right, thats why nintendo invented friend codes to avoid that. Nintendo could have made the wifi so much better like with a 'Competative' and 'Casual game' room. Still you would allways get morons that want to screw with each other and go into the wrong room on purpose.

Hyperlisk_ said:
That was awesome.Thanks! If I made the run a week earlier it would have been a WR
cry.gif

Unfortunatly a 3 lap rail shortcut will never be done. Its next to impossible...

QUOTE(LokusT @ Mar 20 2008, 05:26 PM)
The real point I'm trying to get at is regardless how intentional an ability snaking was coded into the game, it was actually meant to be played without it really. I've seen a bit of talk on here about snaker haters finding something to complain about, I wonder how many former snakers will complain about the loss of snaking when they get beaten in a nice evenly balanced race. It's not about the winning, it's the taking part that counts!
smile.gif
How can you tell everyone how a game is meant to be played? Thats pretty selfish..
you keep talking about the 'series'.. MK64 has mini turbos on straight ways aswell.. but not as much as MKDS, not becauase no one can do it, its because its not any faster!!!
About the 'snakers' getting beaten in a evenly balanced race, im sure most of them will be a good sportsman and congratulate them.. but the thing is its not going to be evenly balanced. When I first started out mkds I seen guys completley thrash me and allmost overlap me... I didnt say 'that guys cheating, no one can go that fast!!!11' I thought, 'wow, that guy was quick! +respect' and strived to become that fast. Without items, if you get beaten, the victor obviously has more skill than them. back in the day we used to play 20 tracks non items. That truly tells who is the better karter.. all tracks involved so no one has the favorite track advantage, and item luck is out of the game. When you have 2 evenly awesome people racing its intense... The game revolves around who's more consistant than the opponent.
Your right, its not about the winning, but having fun! taking part sucks if your not having fun. However winning is fun... so it is about the winning
smile.gif
 

MADKATZ99

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c2ironfist said:
skillful players will find a way to win regardless if there is snaking allowed or not. Majority of players that can't snake I'm gonna safely assume aren't really good at it. I'm also going to assume don't like losing either especially by a huge margin.
they made mini turbo's wayy to simple to do, so if your racing somone that can make them faster versing somone that takes a little longer to make them, your pretty much rooted.
What you said is true to an extent.. depends on their skill leval. a guy that really sucks snaking like mad would still get smoked by a Good player without snaking. but because snaking covers to much ground by a huge magin, a person thats decently skilled at the game snaking cant compete with a legend non snaking...

Actually, it really depends on what you think snaking means anyway. I wish the term was ditched for SSMT's.


arg, meant to edit
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.TakaM

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MADKATZ99 said:
Kreeeee said it the best. Its online competition, man up and grow some balls!

Saying its mario kart doesnt change a thing, the mario kart series are some of the most competative games in the world. People still play SMK!!!

To the chump that said its an exploit and requires no skill, you obviously dont know what your talking about. What takes more skill; holding down A and occasionally turning or actually doing somthing and racing like a motherlicker!!! However it is indeed an exploit. Exploit: Make the most of, Take advantage of, develop, use. Hell, the oppisite is waste!!!
When you want to be the best out there, (and who doesnt when they play online???) Your going to want to take advantage of everything you can get your hands on.
saying it's mario kart absolutely means something, you know perfectly well most people will buy any mario kart game for FUN and NOT challenge, don't even try to deny it.
And now that nintendo has gimped snaking in the upcoming mario kart, I think it's quite safe to say it is not an exploit they want to embrace or encourage.

Now, it might surprise you, but I like snaking, it's a fun way of driving.
But, it belongs in fzero or other games that are focussed on speed and skill, not fun and luck.

and kreee said it the stupidest.
 

MADKATZ99

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.TakaM said:
saying it's mario kart absolutely means something, you know perfectly well most people will buy any mario kart game for FUN and NOT challenge, don't even try to deny it.
And now that nintendo has gimped snaking in the upcoming mario kart, I think it's quite safe to say it is not an exploit they want to embrace or encourage.

Now, it might surprise you, but I like snaking, it's a fun way of driving.
But, it belongs in fzero or other games that are focussed on speed and skill, not fun and luck.

and kreee said it the stupidest.
Nah, becuase mkds wifi was so popular it opened the horizons for competative mario kart. Alot of people out there are going to buy it for a bit of fun, and good on em.. that doesnt mean wifi has to be restricted to chumps that suck and complain when somone has more skill than them.. Just becuase its mario kart we're not alloud to have skill involved? You dont make the rules. Most people I know are only buying it too race TT's and submit them to mariokart64.com.
How does fzero allow snaking to 'belong' any more than mario kart, you yutz! For the casuals the game is focussed on fun and luck, and how longs that going to last? A few weeks then you'll get bored of it.. They play it cassually after all. For the hard core MK fans, if a game doesnt have a huge skill factor (diddy kong racing) people are shortly going to be the best you can be in no time... Theres no room to improve. However in mario kart, these techniques are what made the game live so long for so many people, you strive to get faster and faster. To be a legend it takes hundreds of hours under your belt which is why mk is so great becuase of its replay vaule. If a racing games multiplayer, you want to have the best skill and fastest speed, if you say you dont your a liar.

if you dont like competition, use friend codes.

Another thing.. take mk64 for example, when you play that against friends/family do you MT as much as possible to gain extra ground over your competition? If you dont, and you 'could', its essentially going easy on the person... everyone hates it when you go easy on them.
 

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jalaneme said:
.TakaM said:
snaking is for douches, plain and simple.

And to put the stupid argument to rest, it's an exploit.
Call it a cheat, or call it a skill, fact is you're wrong.
It's a part of the standard gameplay that has been exploited and abused, and only cocky douches think it makes the game challenging...
It's like playing tic tac toe with 16 squares to "make it challenging" dur hur hur

it's mario kart, quit trying to rationalize the fact you are pissing off everyone else and go find your 'challenge' in another game.

and for the record, I can snake, but it's stupid, it makes every race exactly the same.

amen!

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong please. In street fighter you don't want me to pull off a combo because you can't do it? In an RTS you don't want me to use keyboard shortcuts and micro since you can't bother to learn them yourself? In a fps you don't want me to do any headshots whatsoever since you don't have the skill? Oh boy in basketball you can't land a 3 pointer so lets remove it from the game entirely am I right?

If you can't be competitive why play competitive games at all?
 

MADKATZ99

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TMP3z said:
Okay, correct me if I'm wrong please. In street fighter you don't want me to pull off a combo because you can't do it? In an RTS you don't want me to use keyboard shortcuts and micro since you can't bother to learn them yourself? In a fps you don't want me to do any headshots whatsoever since you don't have the skill? Oh boy in basketball you can't land a 3 pointer so lets remove it from the game entirely am I right?

If you can't be competitive why play competitive games at all?
Nice first post, you allready made a good impression on me
tongue.gif


Allthough its not as simple as that. I know where the snaker haters are coming from, and I can see their perspective as well... only problem is it's wrong
nyanya.gif


An early dump would be sick!! Probly the only time where I can get a WR
yaynds.gif
 

.TakaM

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MADKATZ99 said:
Nice first post, you allready made a good impression on me
tongue.gif


Allthough its not as simple as that. I know where the snaker haters are coming from, and I can see their perspective as well... only problem is it's wrong
nyanya.gif


An early dump would be sick!! Probly the only time where I can get a WR
yaynds.gif
I was happy with leaving you guys to make your faux points and talk about how awesome snaking is amongst yourselves, but you just keep going..


What's wrong?
It's an exploit nintendo doesn't want, and it's an exploit the targeted audience doesn't want.
And seriously, stop equating snaking to skills, it takes barely any skill, and is nothing compared to combos in street fighter.

I know it's just the excuse snaking douches like to use, but how about I use the excuse from the opposite side?
snakers have no class, it's just a low blow in a gentlemens game.


Now, I know that's not the real issue, just like "people hate snaking just because they can't do it" isn't the issue, quit taking the easy way out and propose a decent argument. (too late for you kree)
 

c2ironfist

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Powersliding enabled you to gain a slight boost in the game, that was programmed in and is part of the game.

So I don't see how limiting your powersliding to only turns to gain that extra boost logical? If you can pull it off anytime which takes skill on doing, than do it! The whole powersliding is a skill and is not easy to do one after the other.

I guess Nintendo never thought that players would get soo damn good and start powersliding at will. Powersliding and gaining boost has been in many Mario kart games but the reason why they made it a lot easier in the DS version was because they wanted players that weren't so great to be able to pull it off easier. Unfortunately they never thought that skillful players (the above average players) would take advantage of this new integration of the game and go beyond Nintendo's expectations.

Snaking can be considered cheap but not cheating. Technically snaking is just powersliding consecutively one after the other, which was programmed into the game in the first place.

Now Nintendo is taking out this feature and incorporating something else.

That whole argument earlier about street fighter and combos was a good one. Instead of keeping a difficult battle engine, what capcom did in the vs series like marvel vs capcom was make combos easier for players to pull off. Battle system was shot to being difficult to easy so that more gamers can enjoy it and have a fair chance against higher skilled players. They limited pro players to the same combos beginners could pull off maxing out damage because all combos for characters were the same. Instead of how it was like in street fighter 2 where exact timing and button combinations was crucial they had set combos set up which made it easier for players to memorize and tap in an easy sequence. Not to say that pulling off these combos was easy but they were a lot easier which required less skill.

This is an example of what nintendo is doing now by taking snaking out of Mario Kart for the wii.

You can also compare Mario Kart DS to Virtual Fighter. I'm sure a ton of players don't like Virtual Fighter due to it's extremely difficult learning curve. A good player will most likely beat players of lower level guaranteed. There is no luck involved in it. Just like Mario Kart DS, players that can snake extremely well will definatly win over non snakers or lower level snakers.

I remember playing a lot of fighters back then and people would get mad for losing and saying I'm cheap which is unfair because they couldn't lay a finger on me. This whole snaking thing sounds just like that. Players can't compete so they accuse the other player of being cheap or cheating.
 

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.TakaM said:
What's wrong?
It's an exploit nintendo doesn't want, and it's an exploit the targeted audience doesn't want.
And seriously, stop equating snaking to skills, it takes barely any skill, and is nothing compared to combos in street fighter.
I don't know why people don't get it, but SNAKING IS NOT AN EXPLOIT! You are not abusing a programming error in the game. Nintendo INTENTIONALLY put the ability to do mini-turbos into MKDS. It was just a DESIGN FLAW on their part for NOT LIMITING THE AMOUNT ONE CAN DO IN A SET AMOUNT OF TIME.
 

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.TakaM said:
it's an exploit.
it's a gameplay mechanic that can be exploited.
like the speed ball in super metroid, like the jump dashes in sonic advance 2, it's a fucking exploit.

Exploit isn't a dirty word now... and thanks for saying it's a gameplay mechanic, finally.
 

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arctic_flame said:
.TakaM said:
it's an exploit.
it's a gameplay mechanic that can be exploited.
like the speed ball in super metroid, like the jump dashes in sonic advance 2, it's a fucking exploit.

Exploit isn't a dirty word now... and thanks for saying it's a gameplay mechanic, finally.

I think he was referring to power sliding as the gameplay mechanic being exploited into snaking.

I don't really care about snaking, I enjoy non-snaking more. Snaking too much hurts your thumb and isn't enjoyable; it's a technique used to win, nothing else.
 

Hyperlisk_

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.TakaM said:
it's an exploit.
it's a gameplay mechanic that can be exploited.
like the speed ball in super metroid, like the jump dashes in sonic advance 2, it's a fucking exploit.
Like I've said before. You're not understanding the word exploit... An exploit abuses a PROGRAMMING ERROR. Snaking however, does not do this.
 

.TakaM

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no, seriously, you're not understanding the word exploit.
it's not tied exclusively to glitches or gameplay mechanics, it's tied to the ACT of EXPLOITING or ABUSING something


need more people here who are familiar with TAS's and know the terminology...
 

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.TakaM said:
no, seriously, you're not understanding the word exploit.
it's not tied exclusively to glitches or gameplay mechanics, it's tied to the ACT of EXPLOITING or ABUSING something


need more people here who are familiar with TAS's and know the terminology...
Trust me, I know what a TAS is. And an exploit is an abuse of a programming error, not the act of exploiting something. You're just saying that an exploit is the act of exploiting an exploit. A bit redundant, no?
 

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