Gaming Super Mario Bros - The Lost Levels is coming to e-shop

[bloodliketheatla]

The classic levels in NSMB2 were given out for free. And when they do eventually charge money for it, it'll be $2.50. That's a far cry from asking the same amount as cash as a retail game.

There's something called franchise fatigue. Rehashing a well-known game in the NSMB engine is one way to start that process.

SMB3 graphics aren't good
ಠ_ಠ

games mechanics are even worse
ಠ_ಠ

Oh why do I even bother arguing with you when you spout the most asinine bullshit?

Right on, soulx. That guy has a right to believe what he believes, and Nintendo probably would make a ton of money reselling SM3 with the NSMB engine, but I certainly don't believe it's a good idea. (Plus, as stated, there are hackers out there who've done this to some extent.)

And I (like you) *completely* disagree that the graphics are better, and for god's sake, why would anyone want to change the game mechanics? The latter applies to virtually ANY game. I've heard of enhanced controls that make certain games less awkward to play without ruining the original challenge, but to change the mechanics is completely destroying the original game. (In the case of mario 3 i'm guessing you're referring to the physics i.e. the way mario jumps and can wall-bounce out of pits he would otherwise die in.)

The NSMB controls were much more forgiving that SMB3 (and far more than SMB1) but those old games were FUN and CHALLENGING because of it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Those games had soul (creative level design, each new entry was completely unique, etc.) while the NSMB "series" is the same bullshit over and over...

 

[VMM]

Right on, soulx. That guy has a right to believe what he believes, and Nintendo probably would make a ton of money reselling SM3 with the NSMB engine, but I certainly don't believe it's a good idea. (Plus, as stated, there are hackers out there who've done this to some extent.)

And I (like you) *completely* disagree that the graphics are better, and for god's sake, why would anyone want to change the game mechanics? The latter applies to virtually ANY game. I've heard of enhanced controls that make certain games less awkward to play without ruining the original challenge, but to change the mechanics is completely destroying the original game. (In the case of mario 3 i'm guessing you're referring to the physics i.e. the way mario jumps and can wall-bounce out of pits he would otherwise die in.)

The NSMB controls were much more forgiving that SMB3 (and far more than SMB1) but those old games were FUN and CHALLENGING because of it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Those games had soul (creative level design, each new entry was completely unique, etc.) while the NSMB "series" is the same bullshit over and over...

The gameplay of SMB3, SMB Lost Levels and SMB1 is harder because the controls are broke.
If we compare it to SMW and NSMB mechanics, we'll see that the gameplay of these NES games,
are not fluid, don't work well at all.

You can't change your movement on the air like NSMB and SMW.
You can't hold shell right after jumping on a koopa.
If you're hit, you immediately becomes small and lose the power up.
You can't store a power up.
The jumping goes from strange to akward.
and so many other stuff I could spend a day talking

If a game is challenging because their controls do not respond correctly you sure knows:
It's a bad game, or it's too old that have already become obsolete.

And, for me, the best to do with a obsolete game like SMB3 is reamking it to turn it acceptable to todays pattern.

I'm not saying it needs to be re-done with NSMB engine,
to say the truth I'd really like to see a complete new and unique engine for Mario 2D platformers,
but knowing Nintendo, the best we can dream is a remake using NSMB engine

 

[bloodliketheatla]

It's not that they don't respond correctly, it's because the physics of the jumping mechanic were intentionally created that way (or were limited by programming methods at the time.) The buttons were completely responsive. Broke means you hit a button on the controller and the game doesn't react, or it does something unintended. No mario game I can think of has suffered this problem. (Some other games DO.)

They certainly weren't broke! Admittedly, SMB1 is difficult to control but that adds to the challenge, and we can debate all day long about that, but in my opinion the controls for SMB3 (and next SMB World and so on) were EXCELLENT.

YOU want the game to remade to make the controls easier so that YOU will enjoy it. That would inherently DECREASE the difficultly of these games. And to many people (including me) that ENJOY a challenge remaking these games with "unbroken controls" (as you put it) would make these games completely boring to me. Plus some people enjoy the art of these older games whether it be for nostalgia or simple appreciation for what they were capable of producing at the time, or because they simply enjoy that style of artwork.

As stated, stick with the multitude of NSMB remakes if you ever want to play SMB3 levels with the NSMB engine, because HOPEFULLY it won't be produced by Nintendo.

What a stupid idea. Would you be happy if they went back and made all of the old (mostly difficult/challenging) NES games with updated physics and graphics to appease your desire to make games easier and look more "modern"? I would be happy if they remade these games NOT by changing the mechanics and graphics but rather added additional content. Adding 3D is fine. Adding new levels, weapons, extra quests, bosses, etc. would be MUCH cooler than rehashing NSMB by duplicating levels from games of the past.

P.S. I played the shit out of Super Mario All-stars, and the updated graphic style didn't bother me, but I would have preferred the old. Notice that in that game, they only changed the graphics and did NOT mess with the mechanics of the game. Because, again, that would be moronic.

***edit*** On the flip side, many people hated the NSMB series because the controls were too EASY. Most of those games are incredibly easy, and flat-out boring (to me.) NSMB doesn't hold a candle to the older 2D mario games (from NES, SNES, GB, etc.) They don't get near the respect nor the ratings that those older games did. 10 years from now people will remember how great SMB1 and 3 and world were, while many will forget the half-asses attempt known as the NSMB series, unless your generation has a viewpoint similar to yours. I'm guessing you didn't grow up playing those games or you might understand. My assumption is based on guess that your first Mario game was NSMB and when you went back and played SMB1 you thought "oh my god, these controls are so hard! they must be BROKEN! Do I hear the whaaaam-bulance coming?

 

[Sychophantom]

And why in god's name do you own 6 3DS's? One for every child? Because if it's just you, you're nuts, and anyway you could swap that cart between each 3DS because you're surely not playing them all at the same time.

Who ever said you have to be sane? I originally had 2, then just kept finding them dirt cheap for resale. I've probably went through 20 of them. Now, I have a regular one in every color, and an XL. Makes Puzzle Quest and Find Mii super easy. (Now if I didn't get bored in Find Mii 2 so quickly...)

And you're right, I buy retail so I can play in whatever one is closest/handy/at work/charged/whimsical/Pong (Elder God of Cyberspace) tells me to. However, my girlfriend and I each own a Vita tied to the same master account. We buy a game, I have it on mine and hers. Xbox? One of us buys a game, we have it on any console in the house. PS3, same thing...any console in the house.

Nintendo system? Nope, sorry.....They think people only have one console per family. Doesn't work that way when there are multiple gamers in the house. But, if Nintendo decided that sure, have a master account and you can put the games on more than one system, then digital would be the way to go. If I wanted to play NSMB2, and so did my girlfriend, no arguements....grab a 3DS and play. Hell, do co-op or coin rush or whatever.

 

[TripleSMoon]

Nintendo of Japan has announced that Japanese gamers will be able to download Super Mario Bros: The Lost Levels

Reggie also mentioned it in one of the last few Nintendo Directs as well, so it's USA too. I can't wait to grab it!

 

[chavosaur]

Snippypoo

Ugh, ok lets go through every point and get this over with then shall we.
Um lezzseehurr… Ah, to start out with
http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/gamestop-considering-used-digital-game-sales/
Theres my gamestop thing out of the way, so that check one.
Mkay, point two. The guy said he wanted top rated NES games in 3D. Ok...
http://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/563411-excitebike/reviews <- Top rated
http://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/563432-kirbys-adventure/reviews <- Top rated (if I need other sites I can go right ahead)
They were top rated for THEIR TIME. Of course their not top rated NOW. However, he didn't state top rated NAO.
The E-shop thing. Had a misread there, and didn't see the retail part. My bad, I accept that.
The digital resale thing I kind of went over above, but to put it blatantly, its a complete possibility that gamestop could probably pull off, however of course, its going to need some licensing from other corporations.
As for your edit/final statement… I still can't take you seriously at all. Games are not like Music. Their not going to stop producing physical games just because you can go digital. You realize CD's are still around right? They're cheap to make, and still appeal to a wide variety of people who cannot go digital. Same with games. There are people like you who won't wanna go digital and always want to have a physical copy. So game companies must appeal to both markets, or lose a ton of potential profit. Just like with music companies.
Your economics standpoint is pretty valid, as it can be applied in multiple ways here, which is how economics works.
Sure, we can faze out physical retail and go digital. But what happens when the PSN incident happens all over again? What happens when hackers get bored and attack game servers all the time just because they can?
What happens when cyber-robbery runs rampant, because everyone has accounts linked to their bank accounts?
Can you see where I'm going with this? Its not IMPOSSIBLE that we won't go completely digital. But it is IMPRACTICAL, as there are just as many risks as there are staying physical.
I hope I went about this in a nicer way than last time, which if I may say, is a little undeserving given your tone and insults.

 

[bloodliketheatla]

Yeah sorry, I was a bit insulting, and I see some of your points.

But you list TWO games that Ninty re-made in 3D (that were top-rated at the time) but the person asked for ALL the top-titles of the time. This hardly qualifies as a success. (I understand it would be impossible to remake ALL of the "top-titles.") I believe the poster before (now this is getting confusing) wanted all the "top-hits" to be remade in a similar fashion, not just a crappy ROM embedded into an emulator that's 100% identical to the original.

And you should have said "Games ARE like music" rather than "Games are NOT like music" because you were implying that phsyical media (CD's, vinyl, etc.) are still around despite digital downloads, but physical media sales have SUFFERED. And let's not get started into why people prefer vinyl over digital... Luckily we're not talking about the superiority of analog games vs. digital games....

No matter what companies will all being to LEAN TOWARD digital - for cost and control reasons. As you said, physical may still exist but it will slowly be faded out and only kept around for the few that prefer it. I'm not even sure that is a very good possibility and (*I'm* guessing that major companies will *completely* fade out physical media at some point.)

 

[TripleSMoon]

o matter what companies will all being to LEAN TOWARD digital - for cost and control reasons. As you said, physical may still exist but it will slowly be faded out and only kept around for the few that prefer it. I'm not even sure that is a very good possibility and (*I'm* guessing that major companies will *completely* fade out physical media at some point.)

I think if that was the case, companies would have stopped selling CDs a LONG time ago. Same thing with DVD and Bluray movies... with the dawn of digital, I doubt bluray would've ever come out if they were going to stop selling physical movies anytime soon (remember, Bluray is only like, five years old or so).

 

[bloodliketheatla]

Apples and Oranges, my friend. Artists of movies and music need distribution and they have to negotiate with various companies to determine which distribution platform will host their products. Not to mention all of the no-compete clauses they will attempt to force on them.

Video games are different. While PC has multiple platforms to offer digital content (Steam and I forget all of the other ones), consoles have ONE means of distributing their games: Nintendo has the eShop, Microsoft has "Live", and Sony has PSN. Developers have NO other place to offer digital content. They are completely controlled by the console manufacturer. And the console manufacture WANTS digital downloads only for reasons previously stated: no middleman to negotiate with, cost-cuts from not having to produce physical media, PIRACY control, the inability to sell/trade (and don't give me the Gamestop might allow trading digital games in the new future as I can almost promise that you will NEVER be able to trade the eShop games tied to your 3DS to someone at Gamestop or with another person - what's next digital lending like the Kindle Library Sharing?!)

In terms of records (whether CD or vinyl) and movies (whether DVD/Blue-ray/etc.) there is a much great demand to own a physical copy. Consumers are still worried about tying their "purchase" to one console. They might download a movie via Google TV and then want to watch it on some other platform but CAN'T because it won't show up in your Apple library. There are too many competing companies offering digital downloads for music/movies and consumers are hesitant. This is in complete contrast to console gaming. (I'll admit Sony has a pretty cool system by allowing you to play games you've purchased on both the PS3 and Vita and maybe even the PSP - I don't know, I only know there was support in the past to allow PS3 games to be played on the PSP. But this is done to ENCOURAGE digital downloads. Can't pop that physical media into all 3 systems b/c one is disc-based, one is proprietary storage card based, and one is UMD.)

This is why it's apples and oranges, homie.

 

[Amber Lamps]

can't we already play this on supercard dstwo?

 

[TripleSMoon]

*Snip*

Hm.

can't we already play this on supercard dstwo?

It's still nice to be able to play an official, legal version without having to worry about a legally gray flashcart that will constantly have to be updated every time Nintendo tries to block it. No to mention getting NES games to look right with the supercard is a pain.

 

[RodrigoDavy]

Hm.

It's still nice to be able to play an official, legal version without having to worry about a legally gray flashcart that will constantly have to be updated every time Nintendo tries to block it. No to mention getting NES games to look right with the supercard is a pain.

And the DS doesn't have a proper resolution to render nes games, causing part of the screen to be cut.

 

[TripleSMoon]

And the DS doesn't have a proper resolution to render nes games, causing part of the screen to be cut.

I was gonna say that, but forgot.

 

[BORTZ]

I wish it was the "New Lost Levels"... Get it guys? Remade with the "New" super mario bros engine?

 

[VMM]

It's not that they don't respond correctly, it's because the physics of the jumping mechanic were intentionally created that way (or were limited by programming methods at the time.) The buttons were completely responsive. Broke means you hit a button on the controller and the game doesn't react, or it does something unintended. No mario game I can think of has suffered this problem. (Some other games DO.)

They certainly weren't broke! Admittedly, SMB1 is difficult to control but that adds to the challenge, and we can debate all day long about that, but in my opinion the controls for SMB3 (and next SMB World and so on) were EXCELLENT.

YOU want the game to remade to make the controls easier so that YOU will enjoy it. That would inherently DECREASE the difficultly of these games. And to many people (including me) that ENJOY a challenge remaking these games with "unbroken controls" (as you put it) would make these games completely boring to me. Plus some people enjoy the art of these older games whether it be for nostalgia or simple appreciation for what they were capable of producing at the time, or because they simply enjoy that style of artwork.

As stated, stick with the multitude of NSMB remakes if you ever want to play SMB3 levels with the NSMB engine, because HOPEFULLY it won't be produced by Nintendo.

What a stupid idea. Would you be happy if they went back and made all of the old (mostly difficult/challenging) NES games with updated physics and graphics to appease your desire to make games easier and look more "modern"? I would be happy if they remade these games NOT by changing the mechanics and graphics but rather added additional content. Adding 3D is fine. Adding new levels, weapons, extra quests, bosses, etc. would be MUCH cooler than rehashing NSMB by duplicating levels from games of the past.

P.S. I played the shit out of Super Mario All-stars, and the updated graphic style didn't bother me, but I would have preferred the old. Notice that in that game, they only changed the graphics and did NOT mess with the mechanics of the game. Because, again, that would be moronic.

***edit*** On the flip side, many people hated the NSMB series because the controls were too EASY. Most of those games are incredibly easy, and flat-out boring (to me.) NSMB doesn't hold a candle to the older 2D mario games (from NES, SNES, GB, etc.) They don't get near the respect nor the ratings that those older games did. 10 years from now people will remember how great SMB1 and 3 and world were, while many will forget the half-asses attempt known as the NSMB series, unless your generation has a viewpoint similar to yours. I'm guessing you didn't grow up playing those games or you might understand. My assumption is based on guess that your first Mario game was NSMB and when you went back and played SMB1 you thought "oh my god, these controls are so hard! they must be BROKEN! Do I hear the whaaaam-bulance coming?

The first game I played was Super Mario World, back in 1995
A game acclaimed by public and critic,
and that had good physics and is probably the most famous and loved Mario game of all time.

If the game needs a bad mechanic to be a hard game, it's obviously not a hard game.
I've beated SMB, SMB TLL and SMB3, and they are pretty easy,
but for nowadays patterns, their mecanics are broken.

You like that for the nostalgia factor and only that,
but for commercial point it's just stupid.

Just imagine what would be the reaction of people if Nintendo released a full retail game with those mechanics.

If they ever do a remake of those games, they will obviously need to change the mechanics

 

[MarioFanatic64]

The first game I played was Super Mario World, back in 1995
A game acclaimed by public and critic,
and that had good physics and is probably the most famous and loved Mario game of all time.

If the game needs a bad mechanic to be a hard game, it's obviously not a hard game.
I've beated SMB, SMB TLL and SMB3, and they are pretty easy,
but for nowadays patterns, their mecanics are broken.

You like that for the nostalgia factor and only that,
but for commercial point it's just stupid.

Just imagine what would be the reaction of people if Nintendo released a full retail game with those mechanics.

If they ever do a remake of those games, they will obviously need to change the mechanics

I don't think you understand that all of those levels in those games were designed using and taking advantage of the game's mechanics, it just wouldn't be the same game if they were changed.

If you change the game mechanics, you change the way the level (and game) plays. People don't want that. Haven't you heard the bad reputation Super Mario 64 DS recieved, because it didn't feel like the mechanics of the original?

Even if a modernised update of SMB3 did happen, you can't just throw in any physics engine and expect people to enjoy trying to find a different alternate tactic to get through every single one of those levels.

All the old Mario games, the game mechanics are part of the game now. If you don't like those mechanics, you just don't like the game.

Sure, go ahead and update the game's graphics. As long as they are still reminiscent of the original graphics but still look modern I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

But changing the mechanics is changing a core part of the game, and people won't want that unless they never played the original, or if they never had any respect for it.

 

[Pleng]

This is a ridiculous argument...








...If any game should be remade using the NSMB Engine, it's Super Mario World

(ducks)

 

[VMM]

I don't think you understand that all of those levels in those games were designed using and taking advantage of the game's mechanics, it just wouldn't be the same game if they were changed.

If you change the game mechanics, you change the way the level (and game) plays. People don't want that. Haven't you heard the bad reputation Super Mario 64 DS recieved, because it didn't feel like the mechanics of the original?

Yes I do. People enjoy Mario in every possible way.

Even if a modernised update of SMB3 did happen, you can't just throw in any physics engine and expect people to enjoy trying to find a different alternate tactic to get through every single one of those levels.

If Nintendo ever release a remake of SMB3, there would be a lot of people buying, a lot of people playing and enjoying.
Only few narrow-minded people would be crying for this.

All the old Mario games, the game mechanics are part of the game now. If you don't like those mechanics, you just don't like the game.

That's the stupidiest thing I ever read.

Sure, go ahead and update the game's graphics. As long as they are still reminiscent of the original graphics but still look modern I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

Just few narrow-minded fans would care about that, almost anybody. Even if Nintendo release cooking with Mario, it would sell a lot.
A remake of SM3, using NSMB engine would sell a lot, and aprecciate tons of fans.

But changing the mechanics is changing a core part of the game, and people won't want that unless they never played the original, or if they never had any respect for it.

I was wrong, That's really the stupidiest thing I ever read.

This is a ridiculous argument...








...If any game should be remade using the NSMB Engine, it's Super Mario World

(ducks)

I would be fine with that
But If I were Nintendo I'd save that for later.

They've just returned with TanookiPower Up,
this is the best opportunity to explore that.

 

[MarioFanatic64]

--"If you change the game mechanics, you change the way the level (and game) plays. People don't want that. Haven't you heard the bad reputation Super Mario 64 DS recieved, because it didn't feel like the mechanics of the original?"

Yes I do. People enjoy Mario in every possible way.

You do, but a lot of people didn't like SM64DS. You seem to think that I myself don't like SM64DS, but I actually do, I play it all the time but it pales in comparison to the original. You have to understand that you're only thinking of what you would like rather than everybody else.

--"Even if a modernised update of SMB3 did happen, you can't just throw in any physics engine and expect people to enjoy trying to find a different alternate tactic to get through every single one of those levels."

If Nintendo ever release a remake of SMB3, there would be a lot of people buying, a lot of people playing and enjoying.
Only few narrow-minded people would be crying for this.
A lot of people buying, a lot of people playing and enjoying, and a lot of people hating on it just like SM64DS. History can and will repeat itself, unless people learn from their mistakes.
That second comment seems to be fishing for a flame war, IMO.

--"All the old Mario games, the game mechanics are part of the game now. If you don't like those mechanics, you just don't like the game."

That's the stupidiest thing I ever read.

Fishing for a flame war again, are you? How mature.

--"Sure, go ahead and update the game's graphics. As long as they are still reminiscent of the original graphics but still look modern I don't think anyone would have a problem with that."

Just few narrow-minded fans would care about that, almost anybody. Even if Nintendo release cooking with Mario, it would sell a lot.
A remake of SM3, using NSMB engine would sell a lot, and aprecciate tons of fans.
*sigh* More flame war fishing, followed up by an irrelevant reply. The NSMB game engine can have different tilesets you know, I DO hack NSMB DS...

--"But changing the mechanics is changing a core part of the game, and people won't want that unless they never played the original, or if they never had any respect for it."

I was wrong, That's really the stupidiest thing I ever read.

MORE flame war fishing? Do you feel big and powerful trying to insult people behind a keyboard and screen?

 

[VMM]

Mario 64 DS was the 10th most selling DS game until 31/03/2011.
Do you know what that mean?!

Nintendo does not give a fuck about what you think in this case, and anyone that thinks the same.
It sells a lot, and that's the only thing that matters in this business.

Putting a lot of effort on something for such a specific public would demand higher costs, and more developing time.
There would be no benefit in that.