Hacking [SPECULATION] Current State of Affairs for 3DS Flash Cards.

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b00100100

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Hang on a second, isn't the MT-card using the Nano version?

Also, the mechanism of the usb update hasn't really fully been explored yet. I wonder if when updating it via PC, it uses the PC CPU to reprogram the FPGA.

No, I meant that it's the same silicon die inside the different packaging. If I recall correctly, the GW card also uses a A3PN250. So what Microsemi and other FPGA vendors do is they make a half a dozen different silicon die's of different sizes and related architectures... Then they package that silicon die up two dozen different ways and sell them for different prices. Some packages will have more pins, or tighter pin spacing, etc. Typically the smaller and tighter the pin placement, the more the part will cost. That's all I was saying... Although the MT card is using a different package from the GW card, both are using an FPGA with the same insides (A3PN250).

lambstone:
You can't generalize things with just my comments. You need the opinion of all devs to generalize things.

And it's not that unlikely as you think. The users who don't know about boards like this maybe know the R4 from the DS. So they think they need a card for the 3DS too and the flashcard manufacturer know this and rip off these people. Even if there would be a CFW, the flashcard manufacturers life from stupid users and they will continue to rip off these users.

And with "not mine" i mean i did not make all parts of the software and i respect the opinion of the others. They don't want me to release their work.


I see again, it's not a good idea to post here. The others don't post here because they know here are angry kids and idiots.

How does one get into these inner development circles? I understand the need for secrecy, and I also understand the lack of interest of letting just anyone help; however how does one break into this world? I am fully aware that this post will receive no real response.
 

lambstone

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No, I meant that it's the same silicon die inside the different packaging. If I recall correctly, the GW card also uses a A3PN250. So what Microsemi and other FPGA vendors do is they make a half a dozen different silicon die's of different sizes and related architectures... Then they package that silicon die up two dozen different ways and sell them for different prices. Some packages will have more pins, or tighter pin spacing, etc. Typically the smaller and tighter the pin placement, the more the part will cost. That's all I was saying... Although the MT card is using a different package from the GW card, both are using an FPGA with the same insides (A3PN250).

Hmmm.. I suppose the FGPA update on the MT is done completely via usb cable I guess.

How does one get into these inner development circles? I understand the need for secrecy, and I also understand the lack of interest of letting just anyone help; however how does one break into this world? I am fully aware that this post will receive no real response.

I would hazard a guess that you would actually have to demonstrate some degree of knowledge and in doing so show signs that you can contribute to their cause. Otherwise just saying that "you will learn etc etc" would probably be met with derision.
 

profi200

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These entire fiasko is to much. Stupid people remain stupid people. I cant afford some things, but then i don't steal things like the most here. You can say what you want, nothing gives anyone here the right to steal software. It's everywhere the same. If you don't have the money, then you can't buy things. But i can't change the retarded thinking.

The internet mutated to a place for stupidness and such retarded thinking. I don't share the opinion of the most here and therefore it escalates every time again. I'm not going to discuss things every time, so i decided to go. I will not provide anything anymore.

Now you can name me selfish, but i don't care. I shit on warez and retarded thinking. "Der klügere gibt nach"

Anyway, have fun with your 3DS/XL "ROOMZZZZ FTW PLOX!!!"
 

Chaldron

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These entire fiasko is to much. Stupid people remain stupid people. I cant afford some things, but then i don't steal things like the most here. You can say what you want, nothing gives anyone here the right to steal software. It's everywhere the same. If you don't have the money, then you can't buy things. But i can't change the retarded thinking.

The internet mutated to a place for stupidness and such retarded thinking. I don't share the opinion of the most here and therefore it escalates every time again. I'm not going to discuss things every time, so i decided to go. I will not provide anything anymore.

Now you can name me selfish, but i don't care. I shit on warez and retarded thinking. "Der klügere gibt nach"

Anyway, have fun with your 3DS/XL "ROOMZZZZ FTW PLOX!!!"

"People have different opinions than me, so I can't participate in a simple speculation! Wahhhhh"
 

AngryRussianKid

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The last thing, why I think we will get this fcking 2.0: GaryOPA from maxconsole says, that "good things come to those wait". He has connections with GW bastards, it's fact. Hope for that.

One fucking thing, which I think is very strange : GW team have shown us ALL functions of 2.0FW, and it hasn't been released. Why so?
 

lambstone

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"People have different opinions than me, so I can't participate in a simple speculation! Wahhhhh"

Ok guys. This is enough. Let the poor man be.

He has his own opinion and he is entitled to it and even to share it should he wishes. But this extends both ways. Likewise we can have our opinions. Fighting over different opinions is not helpful to anyone. Discussing each other's opinions is a much better thing to do, unfortunately some people just are there yet to handle debates in a mature way without letting their primal instincts take over.

As I've said before and once again. This thread is meant to collect all current information related to flash carts so that people can get a better understanding of what's going on using their own thoughts. I'm tired of fighting. If some of you can't understand it, so be it. Pointless argument is exactly what it is. Pointless.

profi200, I'm sorry you took offence due to selective reading of my posts. It was never my intention for you to read segments that you didn't like and hence failing to get the entire neutral picture that I was trying to paint.

The last thing, why I think we will get this fcking 2.0: GaryOPA from maxconsole says, that "good things come to those wait". He has connections with GW bastards, it's fact. Hope for that.

One fucking thing, which I think is very strange : GW team have shown us ALL functions of 2.0FW, and it hasn't been released. Why so?

This is one reason that is supporting the theory that GW team has abandoned us all like a dying phoenix and eventually re-birthing from the ashes as Evo3ds
 

b00100100

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Hmmm.. I suppose the FGPA update on the MT is done completely via usb cable I guess.

They most certainly have some sort of circuit to do the programming. I'd guess that the USB is actually hooking up to the micro-controller on the opposite side of the board from the FPGA. The micro-controller probably does the translation from USB to JTAG. There isn't any Microsemi FPGA that can be programed by a direct USB connection. Microsemi knows that this is a huge desire from the design world community. How do I know they know this? I personally told their senior level management and the head of their silicon architecture development that higher speed programming is necessary.

I would hazard a guess that you would actually have to demonstrate some degree of knowledge and in doing so show signs that you can contribute to their cause. Otherwise just saying that "you will learn etc etc" would probably be met with derision.

That's really what my main question is, 'how does one demonstrate that'?... I am EE with a Masters in digital signal processing. I have 15 years of industry experience designing electronics for a number of industries including satellites, fiber communications systems, handheld terrestrial devices, and other odds and ends. A lot of my design work over the last couple years have been with Microsemi (Actel) RTAX, ProASIC3, Igloo, and Igloo2 devices. I've written some personal applications to help automate transactions I wanted completed in the cryptocoin world. I've even done some reverse engineering of electronics because the device I needed to use didn't fit the need I had for it.

And with saying all that, I don't even have the slightest idea how one really gets started with 3DS development. It appears to be a insurmountable wall, and personally I am impressed with what people have done. If I was those on the inside, I wouldn't be all that interested in bringing someone like me into their group. If I was them I'd probably think "pssshhh... what a n00b. I give 0-fuc's". And they are right- I probably couldn't contribute much. Still, I wonder how those that are on the inside, got on the inside. What did it take for them to be in the know. My interest in this is purely from a 'I like to know how things work' standpoint.
 

zebrone

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Probably they are behind Evo 3ds, cause they are fired after the bricking time bomb loader and no one will not trust nor buy anymore their product. So they need a new polished image. Who knows!!!
 

lambstone

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They most certainly have some sort of circuit to do the programming. I'd guess that the USB is actually hooking up to the micro-controller on the opposite side of the board from the FPGA. The micro-controller probably does the translation from USB to JTAG. There isn't any Microsemi FPGA that can be programed by a direct USB connection.

Could it be done on the software side via the PC? I'm really at amateur at electronic circuits but I presume that it's possible to offload the instructions to be processed by the PC's CPU and send them to the FPGA. After all, the addition of a Cortex-M1 processor would probably do the same thing right? Please do correct me if I'm mistaken in anyway and you obviously seem to be more knowledgeable.

And with saying all that, I don't even have the slightest idea how one really gets started with 3DS development. It appears to be a insurmountable wall, and personally I am impressed with what people have done. If I was those on the inside, I wouldn't be all that interested in bringing someone like me into their group. If I was them I'd probably think "pssshhh... what a n00b. I give 0-fuc's". And they are right- I probably couldn't contribute much. Still, I wonder how those that are on the inside, got on the inside. What did it take for them to be in the know. My interest in this is purely from a 'I like to know how things work' standpoint.

I suppose you'll probably have to start from scratch. Learn the basic 3ds stuff and then get in contact with one of the dev members and probably start small by asking them stuff that you don't understand. After a while, you skills will clearly be demonstrated and they might offer more. It's probably impossible to know how they managed to get into the "mile-high club" as each case differs. Since your interest is just wanting to know how things work, I doubt they'll give a fuck. As you said, your contribution to their cause doesn't seem much. If on the other hand you know stuff about DRM, you probably would have something they want. It seems that with the possibility of a 6.x exploit becoming a reality, the fears of rampant piracy becomes a very real issue. I'd imagine that DRM would fit into their agenda very well.
 

Duo8

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That's really what my main question is, 'how does one demonstrate that'?... I am EE with a Masters in digital signal processing. I have 15 years of industry experience designing electronics for a number of industries including satellites, fiber communications systems, handheld terrestrial devices, and other odds and ends. A lot of my design work over the last couple years have been with Microsemi (Actel) RTAX, ProASIC3, Igloo, and Igloo2 devices. I've written some personal applications to help automate transactions I wanted completed in the cryptocoin world. I've even done some reverse engineering of electronics because the device I needed to use didn't fit the need I had for it.

And with saying all that, I don't even have the slightest idea how one really gets started with 3DS development. It appears to be a insurmountable wall, and personally I am impressed with what people have done. If I was those on the inside, I wouldn't be all that interested in bringing someone like me into their group. If I was them I'd probably think "pssshhh... what a n00b. I give 0-fuc's". And they are right- I probably couldn't contribute much. Still, I wonder how those that are on the inside, got on the inside. What did it take for them to be in the know. My interest in this is purely from a 'I like to know how things work' standpoint.

You make something I guess. Interest them.
They most certainly have some sort of circuit to do the programming. I'd guess that the USB is actually hooking up to the micro-controller on the opposite side of the board from the FPGA. The micro-controller probably does the translation from USB to JTAG. There isn't any Microsemi FPGA that can be programed by a direct USB connection. Microsemi knows that this is a huge desire from the design world community. How do I know they know this? I personally told their senior level management and the head of their silicon architecture development that higher speed programming is necessary.
EDIT: Not with these I guess.
 

lambstone

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Is it possibe, that Evo3DS FW works with Gateway?

Well. While this is a valid question, it's being asked way ahead of time.

First and foremost, EVO3DS is not yet available and neither is their firmware.

Secondly, given the current state of flash cards, the launcher.dat are not interchangeably compatible with the different flash carts. Chances are it won't.

BUT.. on the off chance it does, it would suggest there is a link between EVO3ds and GW. Hence if I was GW and evo3ds is my new startup, I would make sure the launchers don't work on GW.
 

Chiodo

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Oh this has been a good thread to read. Phew, finally people are talking about a topic other than a missing plane...

+1 to Lambstone for freethinking. Now, can you expand on other topics like the Moon Landing, JFK, Bigfoot, Aliens, God, and Obama. I suppose I am open to reading your thoughts on the missing plane too.

In all seriousness, while the this has been fun to read and I like the exchange of ideas. In the end, Even if GW and Evo3ds are the same company. People will buy anything that lets them play free games.
 

b00100100

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Could it be done on the software side via the PC? I'm really at amateur at electronic circuits but I presume that it's possible to offload the instructions to be processed by the PC's CPU and send them to the FPGA. After all, the addition of a Cortex-M1 processor would probably do the same thing right? Please do correct me if I'm mistaken in anyway and you obviously seem to be more knowledgeable.

If there were to use a FPGA with a Cortex-M1 (they aren't), then the Cortex-M1 still can't reprogram itself. It would be cool if it could, and it will probably support that in the future.

Anyways, an FPGA image is not like your typical software application, but is more like a circuit on an board. All an FPGA image is, is a road map of the part telling the device what fuses will be activated and which ones will not. When you program a Microsemi FPGA, you first send some commands along the JTAG interface to tell all the fuses to reset to the default state. Then you start sending commands one at a time telling the device what fuses to set. Almost like a game of battle ship. Anyways, when I said it wasn't being programmed directly by USB, I just meant that the device itself doesn't have the ability to receive USB interface programming commands. So I could see them using a micro-controller for programming, not because the the micro-controller needs to process stuff, but just because it needs to translate the the commands from USB interface packets (speculation) to JTAG signaling.
 

lambstone

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Oh this has been a good thread to read. Phew, finally people are talking about a topic other than a missing plane...

+1 to Lambstone for freethinking. Now, can you expand on other topics like the Moon Landing, JFK, Bigfoot, Aliens, God, and Obama. I suppose I am open to reading your thoughts on the missing plane too.

In all seriousness, while the this has been fun to read and I like the exchange of ideas. In the end, Even if GW and Evo3ds are the same company. People will buy anything that lets them play free games.

Haha, good one. In the order you listed... Real, Real, False, Likely but not conclusive, No Comments, He seems like an awesome dude. The plane? If it was just the malaysian government searching, it would be no surprises that they ████████████████████████. From what I've heard the malaysian governments level of competency is ████████████.

Yeah, we GBAtempers aren't really the patient lot. I've jumped the gun and ordered a MT card already. I figured. Hm. The only real thing I'm missing is multirom. If Evo3ds turns out to be legit and supports 6.3, I'll get it as well since I have a 6.x 3DS.

Apparently I have a 6.3 Red EUR 3DS, a 7.1 Silver EUR 3DS XL, a 4.4 blue (soon to be limited edition red mario) US 3DS XL. It... just got out of hand. Probably will be selling the silver 3DS XL soon I guess. Meh, my silver 3DS XL was 6.3 then I updated it to 7.1 for pokebank and celebi :(


If there were to use a FPGA with a Cortex-M1 (they aren't), then the Cortex-M1 still can't reprogram itself. It would be cool if it could, and it will probably support that in the future.

Anyways, an FPGA image is not like your typical software application, but is more like a circuit on an board. All an FPGA image is, is a road map of the part telling the device what fuses will be activated and which ones will not. When you program a Microsemi FPGA, you first send some commands along the JTAG interface to tell all the fuses to reset to the default state. Then you start sending commands one at a time telling the device what fuses to set. Almost like a game of battle ship. Anyways, when I said it wasn't being programmed directly by USB, I just meant that the device itself doesn't have the ability to receive USB interface programming commands. So I could see them using a micro-controller for programming, not because the the micro-controller needs to process stuff, but just because it needs to translate the the commands from USB interface packets (speculation) to JTAG signaling.

Ahh. That makes more sense if I am comprehending you correctly. Any speculation on where this micro controller is located?
 
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b00100100

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Ahh. That makes more sense if I am comprehending you correctly. Any speculation on where this micro controller is located?

Based on the pictures seen in the link you posted

http://gbatemp.net/threads/mt-card-...ti-rom-flash-card.359404/page-23#post-4874782

  • One side of the PCB has only the Microsemi (Actel) FPGA, and the FPGA can't reprogram itself.
  • Other side is where all the interesting things are but it is hard to make out the part numbers.
    • The component with the Winbond label below the Micro SDSH card reader is 16M-bit Flash memory and Spi controller
    • I think the silver with orange stripes part on the right hand side of the picture is a clock source.
    • All the smaller rectangles are either resisters or capacitors depending on their color.
    • Finally the quad pack in the middle with markings : 344525 1347# - I have no idea what that is. that has to be your micro-controller or perhaps the "cpu" that MT talks about having.
 

Foxi4

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I'm sorry that you've become a target of this rumour mill, but please, do try not to be too bothered by it, it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Although we disagree as far as some core concepts are concerned (you can't really "steal" software - theft implies that you unlawfuly take something from its owner and said owner no longer has it, meaning sustains a loss. With piracy, you create unlawful copies and the owner sustains no real-life losses. Piracy is a violation of the license and breaks several laws regarding distribution etc., it's illegal, it's just not theft) I agree that you shouldn't be called "selfish" just because you don't feel like sharing fruits of your work with people you don't deem worthy. We're not a communist state - your work belongs to you and you only and you decide who gets to see it.

In any case, I hope this minor inconvenience won't make you stay away from the forums - do stick around, you are welcome in the community, just ignore the speculation and rumour mills since they rarely amount to anything.
 

gamesquest1

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profi200 i think maybe your taking it much too personally, i know people are trying to antagonize you but really just take a breath and continue with your work, getting into arguments doesn't solve anything as much as nobody will convince you piracy should just be allowed, you also won't be able to convert anyone's thinking, i personally like seeing progress reports and new bits of info more than mud slinging from both sides, if you don't throw anything back it just makes everyone see how immature the other side are being
good luck with the work it is appreciated.....by some at least :yaysp:
 

Duo8

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Based on the pictures seen in the link you posted

http://gbatemp.net/threads/mt-card-...ti-rom-flash-card.359404/page-23#post-4874782

  • One side of the PCB has only the Microsemi (Actel) FPGA, and the FPGA can't reprogram itself.
  • Other side is where all the interesting things are but it is hard to make out the part numbers.
    • The component with the Winbond label below the Micro SDSH card reader is 16M-bit Flash memory and Spi controller
    • I think the silver with orange stripes part on the right hand side of the picture is a clock source.
    • All the smaller rectangles are either resisters or capacitors depending on their color.
    • Finally the quad pack in the middle with markings : 344525 1347# - I have no idea what that is. that has to be your micro-controller or perhaps the "cpu" that MT talks about having.
Maybe it has a built-in flasher? I read a document on updating ProAsic FPGAs and something like that was mentioned.

I'm sorry that you've become a target of this rumour mill, but please, do try not to be too bothered by it, it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

QsUWaaO.png

...
 
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