Sony v. Hotz: Sony Sends A Dangerous Message to Researchers --

Discussion in 'User Submitted News' started by Nujui, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. Nujui
    OP

    Member Nujui I need something to do.

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    3,933
    Location:
    Dreamland.
    Country:
    United States
    Something I found while on some sites. It's a pretty good read.

    For years, EFF has been warning that the anti-circumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act can be used to chill speech, particularly security research, because legitimate researchers will be afraid to publish their results lest they be accused of circumventing a technological protection measure. We've also been concerned that the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act could be abused to try to make alleged contract violations into crimes.

    We've never been sorrier to be right. These two things are precisely what's happening in Sony v. Hotz. If you have missed this one, Sony has sued several security researchers for publishing information about security holes in Sony’s PlayStation 3. At first glance, it's hard to see why Sony is bothering — after all, the research was presented three weeks ago at the Chaos Communication Congress and promptly circulated around the world. The security flaws discovered by the researchers allow users to run Linux on their machines again — something Sony used to support but recently started trying to prevent. Paying lawyers to try to put the cat back in the bag is just throwing good money after bad. And even if they won — we'll save the legal analysis for another post — the defendants seem unlikely to be able to pay significant damages. So what's the point?

    The real point, it appears, is to send a message to security researchers around the world: publish the details of our security flaws and we'll come after you with both barrels blazing. For example, Sony has asked the court to immediately impound all "circumvention devices" — which it defines to include not only the defendants' computers, but also all "instructions," i.e., their research and findings. Given that the research results Sony presumably cares about are available online, granting the order would mean that everyone except the researchers themselves would have access to their work.

    Not content with the DMCA hammer, Sony is also bringing a slew of outrageous Computer Fraud and Abuse Act claims. The basic gist of Sony's argument is that the researchers accessed their own PlayStation 3 consoles in a way that violated the agreement that Sony imposes on users of its network (and supposedly enabled others to do the same). But the researchers don't seem to have used Sony's network in their research — they just used the consoles they bought with their own money. Simply put, Sony claims that it's illegal for users to access their own computers in a way that Sony doesn't like. Moreover, because the CFAA has criminal as well as civil penalties, Sony is actually saying that it's a crime for users to access their own computers in a way that Sony doesn't like.

    That means Sony is sending another dangerous message: that it has rights in the computer it sells you even after you buy it, and therefore can decide whether your tinkering with that computer is legal or not. We disagree. Once you buy a computer, it's yours. It shouldn't be a crime for you to access your own computer, regardless of whether Sony or any other company likes what you're doing.

    Finally, even if the researchers had used Sony's network, Sony's claim that it's a crime to violate its terms of use has been firmly rejected by courts in cases like United States v. Drew and Facebook v. Power Ventures. As those courts have recognized, companies like Sony would have tremendous coercive power if they could enforce their private, unilateral and easy-to-change agreements with threats of criminal punishment.

    Sony's core arguments — that it can silence speech that reveals security flaws using the DMCA and that the mere fact of a terms of use somewhere gives a company permanent and total control over what you do with a device under pain of criminal punishment — are both sweeping and frightening, and not just for gamers and computer researchers. Frankly, it's not what we expect from any company that cares about its customers, and we bet it's not what those customers expect, either.

    Source:https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/01/sony-v-hotz-sony-sends-dangerous-message
     


  2. ShadowSoldier

    Member ShadowSoldier GBAtemp Guru

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    9,383
    Country:
    Canada
    This pretty much sums up the whole thing. It was his PS3, he should be allowed to dick around with it all he wants. He didn't use Sony's online service at all, and finally, his hack (according to him on G4's Attack of the Show) doesn't allow piracy, but just homebrew. Which, last I checked, homebrew on anything is not illegal.

    I'm sorry but, while others will say to me "Sony has a right to do what they're doing" and "Good, the hacker deserves it", Sony has really lost a lot of their good charm that they once had.
     
  3. 431unknown

    Member 431unknown Greatness Awaits

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,055
    Country:
    United States

    I'd have to agree that once you buy something like a PS3 it yours and you should be able to do with it as you please... The software thats a different story.

    If he did use their network as they say then ok he broke the ussage agreement contract, but he says he didn't. Now heres my question... Is this all about if you download a system update on your computer to preform an offline update?... is that usage of their network? Its not usage of their network on a PS3 obviously, but that maybe how they are going to try and get him. I do my updates right from my PS3 so I don't know if there is an agreement you need to click or read before you download. Can anyone tell me if there is?
     
  4. Bladexdsl

    Member Bladexdsl ZOMG my posts...it's over 9000!!!

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2008
    Messages:
    14,358
    Location:
    Queensland
    Country:
    Australia
    it's finally happened...sony have lost their minds!
     
  5. ShadowSoldier

    Member ShadowSoldier GBAtemp Guru

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    9,383
    Country:
    Canada
    They honestly have. Especially this generation of consoles. I'm sorry but the only good thing they've done so far was bring the ridiculous price of the PS3 down to an affordable $300.00.

    But come on, they launched the console with BC, took that away. And now they apparently have a patent for a peripheral you have to BUY to hook up to your PS3 to play PS2 games...
    A LOT of people loved OtherOS, took that away.
    They launched the console with a no rumble controller

    etc, etc,

    And they get sand in their vagina's because a guy is basically just bringing back OtherOS and other Homebrew applications.

    Frankly, I thought Sony started going down hill after they launched the first slim PS2. I got one for christmas when it first came out. Within 2 months, the thing stopped working, they wanted to charge me $100.00 because they thought I did it on purpose. Ever since then, they haven't impressed me at all. They should be relieved that HE did it, and not someone who actually condones piracy.

    And they want to confiscate his computers and everything, and I assume his PS3. So what's stopping him from getting another computer and another PS3? And they also want all traces of the hack erased off the internet? Yeah, good luck with that. 30 seconds is all it takes for something to be put on the internet, and have it stay on the internet no matter how hard you try to stop it.

    I actually wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people ditch Sony or don't support them as much for taking away OtherOS, and suing a guy who was trying to bring it back. It's dick moves like this that make people hate a company. Remember how horrible EA was a few years back? Look how much support they lost from their fans. Sony's going down the exact same road.
     
  6. GundamXXX

    Member GundamXXX Ergo Ego

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,140
    Location:
    Australia
    Country:
    Australia
    Exactly

    Isnt OCing your PC the same thing? Adding a new GFX card? Modding your case?

    Imagine if Intel or AMD started suing all tweakers and OCers... the lulz that come to mind make me gitty
     
  7. Giga_Gaia

    Member Giga_Gaia Shinigami

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,281
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Country:
    Canada
    You bought the PS3, you fully own it, so their argument is pointless. You have to follow the rules on their network, but you can do whatever you want offline with it and Sony are powerless to do anything.

    I think they need to look the word Buy in the dictionary. Buying something means you gain total ownership of the product you bought, not just the right to use it.

    Also, last I check, when they say he accessed their computer system illegally, this isn't valid since the PS3 can't really be considered a computer, but more of a entertainment device or a media center at best. Would you consider a TV or something like that a computer?

    Also, it's clear Sony can't win against Geohot.
     
  8. GundamXXX

    Member GundamXXX Ergo Ego

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,140
    Location:
    Australia
    Country:
    Australia
    Not true

    If you buy a piece of land it becomes your property but its still owned by the country you live in

    This is a different matter but dont be mistaken that bought=full ownership
     
  9. Bladexdsl

    Member Bladexdsl ZOMG my posts...it's over 9000!!!

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2008
    Messages:
    14,358
    Location:
    Queensland
    Country:
    Australia
    sony need to follow nintendos lead they tried to stop piracy with AP it failed (on the wii anyway ) so they said well fuck it than we don't care anymore (sort of [​IMG]) were still making billions!

    + homebrew = console sales!
     
  10. jalaneme

    Member jalaneme Female Gamer

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2006
    Messages:
    6,247
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    yeah sony this time around have really taken the piss now, they go to so much extremes to achieve nothing, where will this get them? apart from have a very bad taste in their mouth with all the unlawful stuff they are doing right now.

    any respect i had for sony has now completely gone, i think sony are the utmost scum of the universe, over the years i have lost £1000s worth of consoles because of their really crap poorly built machines.

    YLOD DRE those are the worst offenders! i have had 3 ps2s go wrong and 2 ps3's go wrong also, sony deserve everything they get right now, i have no sympathy, and i also have no sympathy for sony fanboys who keep bending down to sony and taking it from behind, they really are a lost cause and have crap in their eyes even if you have valid points about sony's failness they still worship the ground sony walks on it's ridiculous!

    right now i really hate sony much more than EA a millions times more!
     
  11. Maz7006

    Member Maz7006 iSEXu

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,622
    Country:
    Lebanon
    before these new CFW that came out that allowed piracy, the trick with patching the eboot of some games an d that worked (the CastleVania thing) can still be used against him - then again it isn't so solid

    not to sound like a moaning kid, but i really couldn't be any happier about this

    when i first head of a proper custom firmware, i was really hoping that sony would except this - as long as we keep it legal as in no piracy or cheats - imagine all the emualtors, AND the extra features that can be added to the XMB such as game installs and still being legal and fully working legally online

    Although lets look at the facts here (ever since the beginning)

    USB dongles that came out of nowhere - went far-ish but swiftly blocked and controlled

    fail0verfl0w's work, and the first CFW - led to law suits, online piracy (not a problem for me really), and just game exploits, some games are beyond playable on the PSN thanks to these hacks.

    anyway, i am still quite against sony in general as well, thy really dnt have the right, and Egohotz didn't use or condone online features - nor advertise its use as a matter of fact.
     
  12. heartgold

    Member heartgold GBAtemp Psycho!

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    4,276
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    What the heck that is ridiculous, didn't they offer you any replacements for their faulty consoles? Plain stupid =/
     
  13. GundamXXX

    Member GundamXXX Ergo Ego

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,140
    Location:
    Australia
    Country:
    Australia
    Perhaps they were out of warrenty or its caused by damage?
     
  14. Rydian

    Member Rydian Resident Furvert™

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    27,883
    Location:
    Cave Entrance, Watching Cyan Write Letters
    Country:
    United States
    I know that if Sony hadn't previously allowed linux on their machines that they'd try to state that running ANY third-party program on the machine is illegal... but they can't do this now so they've gotta' go roundabout.

    Hahahahahaha!
    That's a funny one, tell another.
     
  15. NetShira

    Newcomer NetShira Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    70
    Country:
    United States
    I suppose Sony would find some way to make it illegal for me to post video of me publicly destroying by a sledgehammer their hardware after some judge ratified this.... reckless endangerment to their rented material or some other bs.

    (No I don't plan on doing this with either of our PS3s... but this is licensing model always rubbed me the wrong way... if it's a rental SAY it's a rental. Selling you their game system without warning you it's a rental is preposterous.)
     
  16. 431unknown

    Member 431unknown Greatness Awaits

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,055
    Country:
    United States
    Hmm. I can't think of one time when I had to deal with Sony customer service that went well.

    Anyway I paid a visit to playstation.com and read the terms of use its a stretch but from what I read (as much as it did bore me) it seems that perhaps the site and PSN while having different terms of use are interconnected in their eyes.

    Only time will tell and ultimately a judge.



    I don't know if its writen any where for the PS3 but all companies like to hide shit in the fine print and then also add we have the right to change this with out telling you and its your job to always check for updated terms of use. This of course is total bullshit and down right sneeky, snake in the grass tactics.
     
  17. DiscostewSM

    Member DiscostewSM GBAtemp Psycho!

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,801
    Location:
    Sacramento, California
    Country:
    United States
    Even I am getting sick of Sony and their crap. While I believe that a company should continue to work on stabilizing devices they make (which may revert hacking efforts), to say that the company has complete control over what YOU do with your purchase is ridiculous. Their network is one thing, as it requires you to connect to them, but the unit itself is another, in which they need your ok for updates to it.

    Reminds me of a report I saw about credit cards, where their fine print was hidden in pages and pages of documents, where in order to find information about something, you go to this page, which then tells you to go to this other page, then to this other pages, like those interactive books that give you choices in a situation......only without the enjoyment.
     
  18. Crystal the Glaceon

    Member Crystal the Glaceon GBAtemp Inkling™ Squishies~

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    14,811
    Location:
    Inkopolis
    Country:
    Antarctica
    Hey Sony, how's that PSP2 coming along?
     
  19. Whisky1981

    Newcomer Whisky1981 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2007
    Messages:
    17
    Country:
    Slovenia
    Okay, okay I understadnd everything about fighting piracy and all...but...hey 70€ for a game? Are you f****** crazy? Oh yeah and 10€ if I want to play online a used game? Your greed will be your demise.

    So I praise the piracy because of the bood sucking industry.

    To quote a Bad religion song:
    Its never really what you own but what you threw away. And how much did you pay?
     
  20. DiscostewSM

    Member DiscostewSM GBAtemp Psycho!

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2009
    Messages:
    4,801
    Location:
    Sacramento, California
    Country:
    United States
    With all the money they're throwing away with this situation, I can only imagine that they'll increase the price of the PSP2 to compensate for it, at the expense of the consumer.
     

Share This Page