Sony holding Fortnite player data hostage

[kingfrost]

(quote) Why don't people comaplin about Epic allowing it?
Well I can only talk for myself but simply because I don't have the full picture here. I put Sony in thread's name because this only happens to Sony's platform which is one of six or so. But I'm not saying Epic is innocent or anything.
(quote) And they make twice as much money as Sony does this by reselling you items?
I think console makers usually take about a third of digital sales, so yes.

Thank you.

I don't even have loyalty to Sony but I find it funny that we hold them responsible when these games companies are more than capable of standing up to them but don't. It strikes me as hypocritical to act as though Sony is the only one who benefits from the practice and to act like they are solely responsible.

I think some of it is people dislike Sony but like Fortnite and therefore give it a pass.

 

[jt_1258]

It'd probably be for the best if

Of course. You're obviously correct, and I agree with you.
But to a company, whose only interest is profit? Nah. Let's just make them buy PS4s to play with their friends.
Consumer-friendly practices- 90% of the time- are simply to convince you to purchase whatever's being sold. If the product can be sold without them, they go right out the window.

still though, I can understand withholding cross play cause they want players who want to play to play on ps4, but to withhold the save data rubs me the wrong way as its kinda obvious your already on ps4, what's wrong with having a companion system with the switch being the greatest example of this ever

 

[AutumnWolf]

All I can say is... good thing I never buy useless in-game items...

Too bad for those who did so in fortnite (ps4) and want to play the game on their Switch tho...

 

[jt_1258]

All I can say is... good thing I never buy useless in-game items or DLC

Too bad for those who did so in fortnite (ps4) and want to play the game on their Switch...

and for people who don't want to have to make another email account just for one account. why can't we just have to separate saves linked to the same account

 

[Darth Meteos]

still though, I can understand withholding cross play cause they want players who want to play to play on ps4, but to withhold the save data rubs me the wrong way as its kinda obvious your already on ps4, what's wrong with having a companion system with the switch being the greatest example of this ever

It's mostly annoying for Switch. The Switch isn't like other consoles, it offers a different experience. PS4 is still unparalleled in the TV-only home console experience, but the Switch is a hybrid. Ugh... It wasn't so bad before when cross-play was an impossible dream, but now it's so close, and it's being stopped. :/

 

[jt_1258]

It's mostly annoying for Switch. The Switch isn't like other consoles, it offers a different experience. PS4 is still unparalleled in the TV-only home console experience, but the Switch is a hybrid. Ugh... It wasn't so bad before when cross-play was an impossible dream, but now it's so close, and it's being stopped. :/

well, graphicaly it's outdone by the xbox Scorpio but good god is the system gui horrendous

 

[kuwanger]

I don't even have loyalty to Sony but I find it funny that we hold them responsible when these games companies are more than capable of standing up to them but don't. It strikes me as hypocritical to act as though Sony is the only one who benefits from the practice and to act like they are solely responsible.

The thing is that even how you phrase it, it's clear that Sony is the impetus for this and that game companies have to "[stand] up to them". That's a pretty absurd situation to be in. Sony shouldn't be dictating cross-platform play rules, period.

I think some of it is people dislike Sony but like Fortnite and therefore give it a pass.

I don't give Epic a pass. Obviously they should have either (1) disabled the transfer of accounts, (2) one-time duplicated items and segregated PS4 like Sony seems to want, or (3) just not support the PS4 at all and make it clear why. This is one reason why virtual goods are so terrible, especially in multiplayer games. It's bad enough that Steam is going to drop XP/Vista support in six months, but at least it's possible to work around that if I so desire. It's not reasonably possible to duplicate the multiplayer servers and all the virtual purchases if/when Epic decides to drop support, so I really hope people realize just how expensive their renting things really is.

 

[jt_1258]

Thank you.

I don't even have loyalty to Sony but I find it funny that we hold them responsible when these games companies are more than capable of standing up to them but don't. It strikes me as hypocritical to act as though Sony is the only one who benefits from the practice and to act like they are solely responsible.

I think some of it is people dislike Sony but like Fortnit and therefore give it a pass.

iirc epic games "accidentally" let loose cross play on ps4 despite it having to be only mobile, xb1, and pc that can cross play
I didn't mention switch in the cross play cause it obviously wasn't out yet
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/09/e...x-and-ps4-cross-play-in-fortnite-disables-it/

 

[Taleweaver]

You can use your credit card in almost any store. But if you use in one specific, all others are blocked. That's a better analogy.

It would be...
-if playing fortnite on just one device would entirely defeat the purpose (it isn't)
-if playing fortnite was a necessity instead of a commodity (not even the hardcorest of gamers would say that he NEEDS to play a game)
-if the world only consisted of about four stores (albeit large ones)...and only one store franchise blocks one other (remember: that "hostaged" data from the PS4 can still be used on PC)
-up to this point, the entire world thought it was normal that your credit card was only usable in the store (Christ...I just looked up a list of actual cross-platform games. From the tens of thousands of multiplatform games, only about a hundred - most of which stay within their own franchise - that's a pretty meager list).

So in short: no. That's NOT a better analogy.

 

[bodefuceta]

It would be...
-if playing fortnite on just one device would entirely defeat the purpose (it isn't)
-if playing fortnite was a necessity instead of a commodity (not even the hardcorest of gamers would say that he NEEDS to play a game)
-if the world only consisted of about four stores (albeit large ones)...and only one store franchise blocks one other (remember: that "hostaged" data from the PS4 can still be used on PC)
-up to this point, the entire world thought it was normal that your credit card was only usable in the store (Christ...I just looked up a list of actual cross-platform games. From the tens of thousands of multiplatform games, only about a hundred - most of which stay within their own franchise - that's a pretty meager list).

So in short: no. That's NOT a better analogy.

I agree, until the last line. You went completely non sequitur here. My analogy has problems but yours is just a completely different situation entirely. Sony is hostaging data that belongs in a third party server, Epic's. A savings card is managed by the store itself. It's also completely completely clear that you're not getting discounts elsewhere with it. But just logging into PS4 fortnite will block your account forever without any sort of warning, probably in contrary of expectation, as the account may even have been created elsewhere. Your analogy is utter shit, it completely fails to match the main points of this discussion in any aspect at all.

 

[Taleweaver]

I agree, until the last line. You went completely non sequitur here. My analogy has problems but yours is just a completely different situation entirely. Sony is hostaging data that belongs in a third party server, Epic's. A savings card is managed by the store itself. It's also completely completely clear that you're not getting discounts elsewhere with it. But just logging into PS4 fortnite will block your account forever without any sort of warning, probably in contrary of expectation, as the account may even have been created elsewhere. Your analogy is utter shit, it completely fails to match the main points of this discussion in any aspect at all.

Sorry, but I'm still not seeing it. Granted: I should have said "if you buy the exact same product in grocery store A versus B, or have the same start and end airport with two different airline companies", but I don't think that'll change your view of my analogy. And that's fair, I guess. Having us both disagreeing with each other isn't helping the discussion. So let's try a different approach.

Let's see...let me say that I certainly agree that in an ideal world, player data should be kept and stored by the developer of the game. In this case: epic's servers. It gets a bit fuzzy when talking about achievements (to what degree may the console manufacturers track what you're doing in the game?), but that's hardly the issue. The thing is: something like this isn't something that happens accidentally. Fortnite on PC obviously differs a bit from xbox one, switch and sony's (who also differ from each other). I'm unfamiliar with what's needed for real cross-platform capabilities between different systems, but fortnite isn't special. That list I mentioned earlier is probably not complete, but it shows quite some examples of cross-platform play where sony limits cross-platform to just within its ecosystem. there are a few PS4 games cross-platforming with steam, but unless I'm reading it wrong, only Dragon Quest X has compatibility with nintendo's systems (which is still more than the 0 with xbox one). Even other cross-platform titles like Trailblazers, riptide GP, pinball FX 3 and rocket league have the PS4 version shunning switch and xbox one.
In other words: heavy words like "hostage" and "asinine" are hardly appropriate, because thus far everyone just took it for granted that it wasn't an option.
Granted: when the term "cross platform multiplayer" gets thrown about, I can understand that raises some assumptions. But even so, I'd say that it is the responsibility of the customer to check these things before agreeing...which brings me to another point I brought up: I bet most of the fortnite players aren't even customers but participants. That's what you get with free games: you can't really demand your money back.

 

[bodefuceta]

let me say that I certainly agree that in an ideal world, player data should be kept and stored by the developer of the game. In this case: epic's servers.

I understand why you used that analogy now. The part I quoted, that is already the case. The data is already in Epic's servers, but they had agreed on disabling data share in case you happen to log into a Sony platform, assumedly per Sony's request. Do you understand why your analogy is wrong now?

 

[Taleweaver]

The data is already in Epic's servers, but they had agreed on disabling data share in case you happen to log into a Sony platform, assumedly per Sony's request. Do you understand why your analogy is wrong now?

That would indeed invalidate my analogy, yes. Sorry, but I had no idea things went down like that.

The one thing that boggles me is that this is supposedly new. That isn't true. PS4 Fortnite players have never been able to continue playing on xbone or vice versa since...probably since the game was released. here's an interesting article about it from last year. (original source).

 

[jt_1258]

That would indeed invalidate my analogy, yes. Sorry, but I had no idea things went down like that.

The one thing that boggles me is that this is supposedly new. That isn't true. PS4 Fortnite players have never been able to continue playing on xbone or vice versa since...probably since the game was released. here's an interesting article about it from last year. (original source).

Yeah. We've got to be mindful of our responsibility to our install base. Minecraft - the demographic playing that, you know as well as I do, it's all ages but it's also very young. We have a contract with the people who go online with us, that we look after them and they are within the PlayStation curated universe. Exposing what in many cases are children to external influences we have no ability to manage or look after, it's something we have to think about very carefully.

I still call that a bullshit lie when they openly allow cross play with mobile and pc which are by far more unrestricted then xbox and especially the Nintendo Switch. maybe not with minecraft but still with other games that children could get there hands on which would fall under what they mention