Some game carts refuse to run without game update (even in airplane mode)

Discussion in 'Switch - Backup Loaders & Modchips' started by shedeus, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. shedeus
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    shedeus Member

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    I tried to install Doom and Zelda (v001) NSPs with tinfoil (ignoring FW req), but upon trying to run the games, I was prompted for a software update, as the games simply refused to run despite being on airplane mode and choosing "cancel" upon update prompt. These NSPs are not XCI conversions, but pulled with CDNSP GUI.

    No biggie, I'll just play those with my legit game carts I thought. But now even with the game carts, the games continue to prompt for updates, and simply refuse to run when cancelling the update request. Before I had even tried to install NSPs, both game carts used to work fine, like when I cancelled update prompt for DOOM, the game would still run in airplane mode. The Zelda cart had always loaded properly as its v000. I've tried deleting save data and software data as well in case save version was the issue without any success.

    Strangely, all other NSPs work 100% and does not prompt for forced, mandatory software updates except for these 2 games at the moment. Card reader was tested and also functions 100% on all other game carts.

    I am on 3.0.1, hekate 3.2, SDfiles 7.3.1. Switch has never once connected to internet since purchase.

    Any idea on what's causing this?
     
    Last edited by shedeus, Aug 23, 2018
  2. Draxzelex

    Draxzelex GBAtemp Guru

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    V001 carts are updated revisions of games that naturally require higher firmware to run because they are updated. When you installed the V001 NSPs, it might have flagged something in your system that lets it know there are game updates for those games.
     
  3. shedeus
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    shedeus Member

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    That's true, but firm 3.0.1 was high enough for v1.3 Zelda (v001) and DOOM is v000 so requires 3.0.1 out of the box. I meet FW reqs on both, so it's a bit odd.

    Is it because those games are NSPs, and somehow flagged to know there are updates, as opposed to XCIs which have no clue either way?

    It just seems strange the dozens of other installed NSPs also have updates available for them, but don;t suffer this issue.
     
    Last edited by shedeus, Aug 23, 2018
  4. iriez

    iriez GBAtemp Fan

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    Did you select the option in tinfoil to ignore fw version?

    That should be the solution, but if not just grab the update with cdnsp and install it.
     
  5. Draxzelex

    Draxzelex GBAtemp Guru

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    Did you use the bypass firmware requirement feature in Tinfoil when installing them?
     
  6. shedeus
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    shedeus Member

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    Oh right, I forgot to mention I did bypass firm requirement, even though my FW was high enough.

    Unfortunately, I can't install the latest update without dealing with fuses, and I have a HUGE backlog of games even at the low firm of 3.0.1
     
    Last edited by shedeus, Aug 23, 2018
  7. Draxzelex

    Draxzelex GBAtemp Guru

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    You can update without burning fuses. You just have to use AutoRCM which is manageable with sleep mode or ensuring you only power off in RCM.
     
  8. Zumoly

    Zumoly GBATemp Analyst

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    Or if you don't mind you can use devmenu and reset the required fw version for those games.
     
  9. shedeus
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    shedeus Member

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    Yeah I'm just taking one thing at a time. When I run out of content, I will for sure upgrade without burning, but since I literally have a years worth of gaming still untapped (Mario Odyssey, Bayonetta 1/2, Resident Evil, still haven't beat Zelda etc.) I was hoping to just enjoy the 30+ low firm games on my SD card and just wait patiently for the hacking scene to catchup

    I don't know anything about this. Can you point me to a tutorial or youtube on how to do this? Thanks in advance
    oh nvm, devmenu itself seems to require high fw
     
    Last edited by shedeus, Aug 23, 2018
  10. AnalogMan

    AnalogMan ultraSuMoFramework Dev

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    It's because those carts have update NCA's installed onto them already. You really shouldn't be converting XCI to NSP for exactly this reason. When you go to run them, they can see the update already contained in the NSP (and you can install that update without internet too). Now that the Switch is aware of the update it's not going to let you play the game without it. If you wish to continue converting XCI's to NSP (not recommended) always use rev000 versions of the games.
     
  11. shedeus
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    shedeus Member

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    Sorry I should have mentioned these are not XCI conversions, but CDNSP files pulled with Bob's GUI

    You make a good point about the game recognizing the updated NSP. It makes sense when trying to play a lower version on the cartridge (Zelda for example), it's rejecting because of the version mismatch.

    It still doesn't explain why DOOM won't run, since both nsp and cart versions are v000 and I never tried updating either, but I'm going to try reinitializing the console to see if that helps reset things.
     
    Last edited by shedeus, Aug 23, 2018
  12. AnalogMan

    AnalogMan ultraSuMoFramework Dev

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    Please clarify this for me then?
     
  13. bundat

    bundat ¿

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    In my experience, when a game won't let you play without installing a game update (i.e. the ones you can't just cancel and choose "Start Software", it's because of conflicting game versions of the save files.

    e.g. I was playing a Mario Odyssey rev001 cart, this is actually a cart with the v1.1 update BUILT-IN.
    You can see this by checking the cart's game data on Horizon (by pressing +), it shows v1.1.

    Then I tried moving to NSPs, and installed the base game (v1.0).
    I couldn't play without updating, because the game had a v1.1 save on my Switch, which was not compatible with the v1.0 game.

    Then I just briefly played on another (borrowed) Mario Odyssey cart.
    Then suddenly, I couldn't play even with the first rev001 cart.
    Upon checking the new cart's game data of the game on Horizon (by pressing +), it shows v1.2!
    It's a rev002 cart, and it caused my save to become compatible with only the v1.2 update of the game.

    ---

    So... what I think happened in your case:
    Doom v001 has a higher FW requirement that cannot be bypassed
    (e.g. they actually use a NEW functionality of the higher FW in their game code)
    And by trying to run it once, your saves have been converted from base version to v001
    So you now can't use those saved games anymore on the v000 game.
     
    Last edited by bundat, Aug 23, 2018
  14. iriez

    iriez GBAtemp Fan

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    What i was saying is that you can download and install the game updates. You can also update your switch using ChoiDeJourNX with a few clicks without burning the fuses.

    There are multiple solutions here, and you should probably just use choidejour and update to latest fw so you don't have to use all these complex work-arounds to get things to work.
     
  15. Clydefrosch

    Clydefrosch GBAtemp Psycho!

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    question, how does downgrading back work anyways? nandbackup? original firmware file? what happens to savestates and such?
     
  16. Codiox

    Codiox GBAtemp Regular

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    Jan 19, 2016
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    got the same problem here. but somehow the messages went away. cant explain why.

    im always offline.
     
  17. shedeus
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    shedeus Member

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    Aug 9, 2018
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    Yeah, I think that's exactly what happened. I was trusting Switch Backup Manager to give me the correct firmware reqs on NSPs games and updates, but it wasn't 100% correct for all files. Just finished reinitializing and reinstalling everything back to the SD card, and DOOM/Zelda NSPs run as they should. Thanks for the help everyone!
     
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