Some 3DS guides questions (3ds.guide, B9S, JKSM, gateway)

Discussion in '3DS - Flashcards & Custom Firmwares' started by Cyan, May 21, 2017.

  1. Cyan
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    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    Hi,
    I have some questions/suggestions regarding 3DS.Guide with Boot9strap. I didn't know where to post, is there a 3DS.Guide official thread on gbatemp?
    I'm not familiar with 3DS as I didn't follow this section for the past 2 years, so I might be wrong but they are remarks I have after reading all the guides.
    I just took interest in 3DS.guide this weekend, I don't know what was written there before.

    First questions are for @Plailect

    • 3ds.guide is missing information specifically for gateway users.
    - the guide does not tell users that gateway will be unusable after following the guide, due to updating to latest version.
    - The guide does not tell users to backup the gateway saves BEFORE following the guide (there's only a link in the FAQ), or it will not be possible anymore (unless gateway release a new launch method for 11.x)
    - @lafleche made a thread about gateway, I have similar concerns. but I created this thread because I have more questions.
    - The guide tell users on a 4.x firmware to "delete the file later", but it would be nice to have a reminder at the update step to delete these files if they were used. (just to be safe, is it problematic to keep them for next steps?)

    • Question about the guide itself
    it concerns the "Otherapp" homebrew launcher.
    in the finalizing part, section I, point 13-14, it tells o3DS users to get "The Old 3DS 11.2.0-35" and rename it to "match your region", but the example also has an updated version number "OLD-11-4-0-37-REGION.bin".
    this step is confusing :
    do we have to download "11.4" instead of "11.2" ?
    or do we have to download "11.2" and rename it to "11.4" and never touch it again ?
    or do we have to download "11.2", rename it to "11.4" but also rename the filename to match the future existing version Luma is running after doing a FW update (11.5, etc) ?

    This part is used to launch the homebrew launcher from an option within Luma?
    Why not install a homebrew launcher cia and not use a specific payload?
    That step is confusing to me, probably because I didn't follow homebrew launcher issues with new firmware updates.


    • 3DS guide is missing some glossary
    - There's no mention to what CTRNAND is, especially when reaching the step "CTR NAND Luma"
    All the guide is using "NAND" or sysNAND, and at this steps is start using "CTR NAND" name.
    is it the same thing?

    one question about it : Is it adding .firm or replacing an existing/official one?


    - what is DSP ?
    what is the "Section VI - DSP Dump" useful for?

    - some users are asking "what is OTP?" too. I know, but some users don't.


    • in 3DS.Guide troubleshooting
    There's a mention to "DSI/NDS don't work anymore"
    is it common and every users have to update their TWL/NDS firmware files after completing the guide, or it only concerns specific users coming from specific 3DS firmware?
    I'm on 4.5.0-5, can I know if I will be affected before or do I have to just test it and see if I need this fix?


    • EmuNAND restoring to SysNAND
    When following this step, all the data on sysNAND will be replaced with the emuNAND one?
    you will lose data, settings, installed games or it will merge emuNAND to sysNAND without losing sysNAND existing data/savegames/extData?
    Is there a difference with linked or unlinked emuNAND? Would you lose your sysNAND extData if you had unlinked NANDs?

    What I understand is : backup DSI/GBA save, replace sysNAND with emuNAND, restore backup of DSI/GBA to the sysNAND. is there a way to backup/restore sysNAND extData too?
    If there were DSI/GBA already on emuNAND and they are in collision with the restored one, what would happen?


    • Gateway Save conversion linked in 3DS.guide faq
    This one concerns @MattKimura's guide.
    I'm post it here as I have questions after reading the new 3DS.guide, but if you'd prefer I can post it in your guide instead.

    The FAQ on 3DS.guide links to this save converter guide.
    I see it was written few months ago, so maybe it's not up to date with current guide?

    • it says "for users who want to keep using gateway AND cfw", I guess you can't use gateway anymore if you followed the new 3DS.Guide
    So, you need to do it BEFORE following 3DS.guide/before updating the firmware.

    • I think the guide is missing some steps.
    in one of the step, there is "press Select to open gateway menu", which imply the user should already be in Gateway mode. But nowhere in the guide it was said to boot gateway menu.

    should the user with gateway emuNAND be doing the conversion on sysNAND? (use an SD card without emuNAND partition, or boot gateway in sysNAND mode)
    That would prevent installing and initializing the cia savegame on both emuNAND and sysNAND?

    • The cia savegame is stored on SD or NAND? (I never used cia)
    I suppose only the "external data" is stored on external device, so cia games are stored on NAND, right?
    so if you convert gateway to CIA, you'll have to backup cia savegame on emuNAND to put them on sysNAND later? how to do it?


    • Users following 3DS.guide are suggested to use sysNAND instead of EmuNAND, so at the end, all the data has to be on sysNAND.
    I remember some data had deletion issue when visiting the data manager menu on sysNAND when using emuNAND.
    ExtData is on SD, but you mentioned "if you use the same NAND you are fine", is it based on whether the user linked/unlinked its sysNAND/emuNAND?

    Will the extData used in emuNAND still work fine on linked sysNAND?
    Will the extData used in emuNAND still work fine on unlinked sysNAND?
    how to convert extData to another NAND? godmod9?


    - I don't understand the need to put the current savegame to convert on the root of the SD card and renaming it to JKSM's save filename.
    that would be useful only in case gateway is actually "mounting" a JKSM.3DS file, as it would put the 0004000002C23200.sav into gateway's SRAM, but you are not launching JKSM with gateway, you are launching it from cia.

    I don't see when the "0004000002C23200.sav" is actually decrypted.

    The guide tells to :
    - mount the game you want to convert in gateway <select> menu. it's putting that original game's <gameID>.sav into the gateway's SRAM. (not 0004000002C23200.sav)
    - run JKSM to "dump the cartridge SRAM" to a user specified filename (so it's not saving the cartridge SRAM 0004000002C23200.sav ? if it were you wouldn't have to put it there manually as it would overwrite that file)
    - in JKSM, select "restore the newly created savegame to CIA"

    I didn't use JKSM yet, so I imagine when you choose a "date" (5-8-16 in your example) it doesn't create a new file on SD card, but store that data inside the "0004000002C23200.sav" filename.
    so, 0004000002C23200.sav can contains multiple savegames? it contains the unencrypted version of the "extracted flashcard's SRAM", but what happened to the original gateway backup renamed to that filename?

     
    Last edited by Cyan, May 21, 2017
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  2. Filo97

    Filo97 Zelda's totally my sister! Not lying!

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    CTRNAND is a partition of the nand, like TWLNAND, FIRM0, FIRM1, ecc.
    (This is the only question i am 100% sure on how to answer because i am italian and am not THAT good at english)
     
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  3. Quantumcat

    Quantumcat Dead and alive

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    How did you do this??

    Make a github account and create issues in the repositories of each tool you want to make suggestions or report bugs for. In pretty sure Plailect ignores being tagged, because people do it all the time for no good reason.

    https://github.com/Plailect/Guide/issues
     
    Last edited by Quantumcat, May 21, 2017
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  4. Cyan
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    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    I see, thanks.
    It's like "the place where .firm are stored on sys NAND"
    like the different MLC and SLC on wiiu.

    sorry, I made a lot of questions too :P


    quantumcat :

    [ noquote =please don't quote this part ]
    blabla
    [ /noquote ]
     
    Last edited by Cyan, May 21, 2017
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  5. Quantumcat

    Quantumcat Dead and alive

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    That's really cool. I wonder how many hidden tags there are that people don't generally know about because there are no direct buttons for them?
     
  6. Cyan
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    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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  7. Quantumcat

    Quantumcat Dead and alive

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    That's super useful, bookmarked ^_^

    Did you edit this in because you knew I'd look at it? :P
     
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  8. Filo97

    Filo97 Zelda's totally my sister! Not lying!

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    That's automatic. I see "Filo97"
     
  9. Quantumcat

    Quantumcat Dead and alive

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    Oh that's neat
     
  10. Arck

    Arck GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    not sure that plailect is a fan of gateway users
     
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  11. Cyan
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    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    fan or not, shouldn't be the issue.
    just warning users that gateway will be unusable is more helpful and will prevent him dealing with users who lost they gateway access after following the guide.
    he will have less issue and less "fans" coming to him.

    that's only my own vision of writing a guide to help (all) users.
    then I'm not telling how he should write his, just providing my view on it. I also posted here to get help from other users who could answer, and didn't contact him specifically (in private) to edit his guide.
    Like said, they are only "remarks" and questions and not recommendation.
    if users have questions about the guide, it could mean it's missing some information, up to whoever write the guide to decide if it's important or not to update it.
     
    Last edited by Cyan, May 21, 2017
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  12. MattKimura

    MattKimura 3DS & WiiU Enthusiast

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    When it comes to migrating to the latest hacks, that being Boot9strap, you have to keep in mind that you're basically abandoning ship with Gateway. But in reality, they've already abandoned ship long ago with support. They're nothing but a team of ghosts now. In the end, you'll have to end up moving onward else you'll end up being outdated when newer firmware updates come out as well as newer games. It's been a good number of years to use Gateway and it's did it's job, it's time to put it in it's grave.

    To migrate, you just need to backup your Gateway saves one by one (HUGE pain in the ass). But once you do it, you're ready to move on. Saves are the most important thing and once you restore them, it'll be like you lost nothing.
    The next thing to do is install boot9strap as if you're on a stock 3DS, while in sysnand that is. Once it's installed, you would follow a special part of the 3ds guide for moving emunand to sysnand. OR you can just skip this and keep on using emunand, although it's extremely difficult to ever brick a 3DS and it's fairly easy to recover now that we can dump the NAND with ease. So I wouldn't recommend emunand, not even for a kid. It's main use is acting as an extra menu to increase the title limit by 300 more or other things like that.
    But once you restore emunand's backup on sysnand, everything you had will literally be in tact as it was. And emunand will be gone off your SD card saving you some space. In the end, you'll have the latest and greatest setup and all you have to do is restore those game saves one by one (You have to launch each game at least once to create save data before you can restore with JK Save Manager).

    I abandoned Gateway for Arm9loaderhax + Luma long ago and I was lucky enough to sell my Gateway to someone who was eager to have an extra one. Though it was only $20, better than nothing. At this point you absolutely cannot sell a Gateway cartridge, it's useless and will never be revived again. I'm sure if the Gateway team came back, it'd be pointless because CFW already does everything without a cartridge. Besides what's better than boot9strap, it's unstoppable and unpatchable.

    Don't think too much about it. Make the switch and don't look back. It's a VERY easy process especially now that boot9strap is possible. The whole hacking process became immensly easier than ever before.

    I usually don't type this much for anyone, but I recognize you from the old Gateway times when I first joined. I respect you for being someone who goes as far back as 2002!
     
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  13. Cyan
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    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    I guess I misunderstood JKSM purpose.
    JKSM can be used to backup/restore, not only gateway, so you can just backup everything as external file to computer, then later restore savegame to sysNAND when needed?

    I thought you had to have cia installed to actually convert gateway to cia, but you just extract gateway to "backup format", and can restore it later when you want?

    thanks taking the time to write your long answer :)
    I guess I'll do the jump, leave my 4.5 and update to cfw too.
    I don't have a lot to convert, and wouldn't lose a lot if I lost gateway access, I just want to understand all steps correctly.
    I'll try JKSM and see what it can do, no harm trying if I have backups.
     
    Last edited by Cyan, May 21, 2017
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  14. Gray_Jack

    Gray_Jack GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    This one, mate!

    DSP means Digital Signal Processor, it is a chip, we dump it's firmware, that we also call DSP when it should be called DSP Firmware, cause it's needed for several emulator homebrews to have sound

    Most Gateway users are using the Gateway as a secondary stuff, using CFW almost always, so since none of this was questioned for a long time, maybe Plailect forgot to include this type of info
     
    Last edited by Gray_Jack, May 21, 2017
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  15. relminator

    relminator #AnyaBasic

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    Download 11.2.0-35 then rename to OLD-11-4-0-37-REGION.bin.
    Same process as with A9LH.

    Just B9S-ed one very old 3DS. 3.1 FW updated via cart to 10.3.

    Weird that soundhax worked on it.
     
  16. Reecey

    Reecey Mario 64 (favorite game of all time)

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    What about if you want to use Gateway in what was a9lh mode and you want to use roms? how do you boot back into the gateway menu if you wanted too? I didn't realize any of this until I read this thread. Of course you cant use apps like decrypt9wip or even hourglass9 etc..cause all the files are in .bin conversion in luma payloads? I tried the firmtool but cant get it working my end I can convert the tool but I'm not sure on what you type in cmd to convert the files to .firm?
     
    Last edited by Reecey, May 21, 2017
  17. Wanderer0891

    Wanderer0891 Advanced Member

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    As far as Gateway goes to give a bit of a history lesson:

    Back when arm9loaderhax was released it allowed for a sysnand only setup as a9lh ran early in the boot time and so you could restore a nand backup in case something went wrong without needing to go to the home menu. This pretty much got rid of the need to have an emunand in most cases plus a sysnand only setup saved space by getting rid of the emunand partition. That and GBA and Dsiware games only needed to be installed once as opposed to twice on both sysnand and emunand to make them work.

    But Gateway wanted to stick to having an emunand for one reason or another, the problem was they didn't put in firm protection for a9lh so if you updated your sysnand firmware in Gateway mode O3DS units would lose a9lh and be back to being unhacked while N3DS units would be bricked. This wasn't a real problem as you would simply update using your other CFW as most Gateway users used both. However, starting with firmware 11.3 Nintendo made it so that you couldn't even boot to the homemenu without firm protection as without it a9lh would be uninstalled much to the dismay of a few users who discovered this.

    Toss in that Gateways own a9lh solution that they called fast boot caused the 3DS to not even boot without the red card inserted into the console and locked it to always boot the Gateway menu when some people would have preferred to boot other arm9 tools such as Decrypt9 and Godmode9 for the various tools that the other arm9 tools had that the Gateway menu did not.

    As a result of all this people started to move on from Gateway to CFW as CFW was more flexible. Mind you its currently possible to convert a9lh .bins to the new boot9strap .firm format but I don't think anyone has tested yet if you can boot to the Gateway menu with b9s. Mind you the only people who should test that would be people with a hardmod in case something goes wrong.
     
  18. pixelmasher

    pixelmasher Gaming Gamer

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    Interesting thread. @Cyan I'll try to answer some things that hasn't been answered.

    Homebrew launcher has its own payload separate from CFW. Remember people without CFW also use homebrew.

    NDS/DSi issue relates to Gatewait downgrade and also using patched TWL before Luma3DS got built in patches.

    In case you have unlinked EmuNAND/SysNAND, since they'll have separate encryption whatever data associated with the other won't be usable in case of restoring one to the other. With linked NANDs since they are getting the data from tho same spot with same encryption, nothing is changed. Some data might be lost if it lives in the NAND portion and not SD card.

    JKSM can export/import game saves and ExtData. It also can do the same for system titles like Mii Plaza and such.

    CIA game saves can go both to NAND or SD depending on the type of game. DSiWare games will save to NAND while 3DS games will save to SD.

    ExtData for linked NAND is the same. Unlinked will be different. Use FBI, JKSM, or extdata_dump depending on your needs. Not sure if GM9 will work to, but it probably does.

    Edit: This should be mostly correct. There might be minor details where I'm off. Nothing that's "important" to actual hacking bits.
     
    Last edited by pixelmasher, May 21, 2017
  19. Cyan
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    Cyan GBATemp's lurking knight

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    Thank you for the additional answers.

    I have very few games I care to convert, and have a linked emuNAND, so it won't be an issue for me.
    Most are concerns I had while reading the guides, specifically the save converter guide for JKSM because it didn't cover all user's possible setup. I guess I'm the only one with these concerns as that guide is one year old and nobody asked about unlinked emuNAND.

    Sometime I just overthink...
     
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  20. pixelmasher

    pixelmasher Gaming Gamer

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    I saw this on a sig.
    I'm not sure who's views it endorses, but I think you get the idea.