Mate, you put your point across very clearly which is probably why the silence, or maybe the silence is just down to what bsfmtl123 (the theist) fears the most, which is being told to think for himself.TrolleyDave said:
Signs Of Doomsday Day!!!
- Thread starter bsfmtl123
- Start date
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Cheers Tanas mate! For now I'll take his word that he's busy with exams, it's about that time of year here so there's a good chance it's about that time of year there. Totally agree with you on the theists fearing thinking for themselves. I will give him credit tho, he hasn't done what alot of Muslims have done to me in the past and just flung the old "Islamophobe/Racist" slur at me and refuse to debate any further.
While we wait tho I'll post this video for peoples entertainment!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T5Pm7qLH50[/youtube]
While we wait tho I'll post this video for peoples entertainment!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T5Pm7qLH50[/youtube]
<!--quoteo(post=3680933:date=Jun 2 2011, 06:17 AM:name=TrolleyDave)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TrolleyDave @ Jun 2 2011, 06:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3680933"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3676893:date=May 31 2011, 10:06 AM:name=bsfmtl123)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bsfmtl123 @ May 31 2011, 10:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3676893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NO PROBLEM! Family comes first....your apologies accepted.
I think we should address issues turn by turn.....first lets see why are there two women witnesses to a single men.
"O you who believe! When you contract a debt for a fixed period, write it down. Let a scribe write it down in justice between you. Let not the scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so let him write. Let him (the debtor) who incurs the liability dictate, and he must fear Allah, his Lord, and diminish not anything of what he owes. But if the debtor is of poor understanding, or weak, or is unable himself to dictate, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her. And the witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (for evidence). You should not become weary to write it (your contract), whether it be small or big, for its fixed term, that is more just with Allah; more solid as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves, save when it is a present trade which you carry out on the spot among yourselves, then there is no sin on you if you do not write it down. But take witnesses whenever you make a commercial contract. Let neither scribe nor witness suffer any harm, but if you do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So be afraid of Allah; and Allah teaches you. And Allah is the All-Knower of each and everything."
The Noble Verse above is quite clear about providing either two reliable men or 2 reliable women in a substitution for each man in any court. But why did Allah Almighty order such a law? What is the Divine Wisdom behind it?
The Noble Verse above does not in anyway talk about women's intelligence or memory capabilities or brains. It is simply talking about the women's complete integrity. Women are by far more emotional than men. This by itself will effect the woman's ACCURACY in her witness if she is asked to explain what happened in a certain event.
Let us look at few differences between men and women to understand better:
1- Women have a lot more patience and emotions in them than men. This is one of the blessings that Allah Almighty had created in women to enable them to raise children. Men do not have enough patience in them, nor enough loving emotions in them to raise children.
2- Women can easily get frightened. Man can't. It takes a lot to frighten a normal average man.
Let us look at the following Saying from Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: "The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Witnesses, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 826)"
Notice very carefully here that Prophet Muhammad said "woman's mind" and not "woman's brain". No where in any Islamic doctrine do we see any ridiculous uneducated and unscientific claim against women or anyone. The women's brains and ability to think is not what is being criticized here. It is as I said above their complete integrity. Notice how Allah Almighty said in the Noble Verse "...it is juster in the sight of God, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves...(The Noble Quran, 2:282)" So it is the perfect justice and the 100% complete accuracy that Allah Almighty is concerned about here.
Here are some Scientific Facts:
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All I see there is someone trying to retain Mohammeds reputation as "the perfect man" and "the example for all mankind for all-time". None of these things were thought, taught or mentioned about this verse until more recent times. And the reason for the change of thinking? It's because in Liberal Secular democracies we have learnt from our mistakes and pasts and cast off our old, outdated stereotyped views passed on through religion about women. Our morals have improved, and as our morals begin to excel those of Mohammeds so scholars and apologists have had to rewrite Islamic history and the meanings of what Mohammed says in order to maintain the illusion that he was the most moral person in history. If our morals and outlook hadn't changed then neither would the meaning of this verse/Hadith. Is this piece written a hundred years ago? Two hundred years ago? No, it's written in modern times. Show me a piece written by a scholar closer to Mohammeds time that says this is what he meant and I'll believe it. One from even just 100 years ago will do.
Until then I'll take what he said at face value. Specially when he also said and did all these other things :
If Mohammed really was the champion of women then why would he allow them to be taken as war booty? Why would he allow female slaves? Why would he have taken female captives himself? Now matter how you try to spin this Mohammeds own actions count as evidence against him. If you look at the picture as a whole, rather than at the snippets that are shown to you to make him seem like "the perfect man" you see that he viewed women as inferior to men and as property. If the morals of the average non-believer hadn't have grown then none of these Hadiths would ever have been questioned. It's just that the modern non-believers morals are becoming vastly superior to Mohammeds, therefore the need to defend what he said and protect his reputation has arisen. Why did God not teach Mohammed that slavery is wrong and why did Mohammed no pass that message on? We as humans learnt our lesson a long time ago. Should our morals excel those of an All Knowing, All Wise and All Compassionate and perfect being? If they do then surely he should be worshipping and submitting to us, not the other way around. Unless you'd like to tell me now that slavery is OK and moral?
Moving on to the article itself that you posted.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Noble Verse above does not in anyway talk about women's intelligence or memory capabilities or brains. It is simply talking about the women's complete integrity.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How many times does the Qu'ran actually mention the brain at all? As for critiquing womens integrity, don't you think that's a little bigoted and prejudicial? You can no more judge a woman based on womanhood than you can an individual Muslim based on other Muslims. Otherwise the saying "All Muslims are terrorist" holds weight, and we both know that argument holds no weight whatsoever.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Women are by far more emotional than men. This by itself will effect the woman's ACCURACY in her witness if she is asked to explain what happened in a certain event.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Women are not far more emotional than men. Please educate yourself. There are women who are more emotional than men, yes. There are however men who are more emotional than women. You can not judge a indivuidal based on a group, you can only judge an individual. As for emotion effecting the accuracy of a womans testimony, men suffer the same problem. Emotion is a human trait, not just a female one.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1- Women have a lot more patience and emotions in them than men. This is one of the blessings that Allah Almighty had created in women to enable them to raise children. Men do not have enough patience in them, nor enough loving emotions in them to raise children.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What complete and utter bollocks. It's this kind of belief that used to stop deserving men from getting custody of their children after a divorce. Women are no more naturally patient than men. Patience is a virtue that is learnt, it's not a natural emotion. If it was a natural human trait then there would be no impatience, and clearly the world is full of impatient people. And as for men not having enough loving emotions in them to raise children, you can pop that thought in an envelope and post it back to the pre-1950's. There are plenty of men with more than enough loving emotions in them. There are plenty of men who do an incredible job of raising their children to be kind, helpful and productive members of society. To say any different is bigoted and stereotyping. There are very few types of people you can judge based upon the collective group that they belong to. Again I refer you to the phrase "All Muslims are terrorists". Is this true? No it isn't. So why is it fair for you to say "All men are so and so"? It is absolutely no different. The internet is a huge (virtual) place that holds more information than one man could learn in a life time. I suggest using it. I know you're taught to only ask scholars and only refer to things that scholars have said, written and taught but there is a psychological reason behind that. Break free from it and learn for yourself, you'll be surprised by some of the things you'll learn. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2- Women can easily get frightened. Man can't. It takes a lot to frighten a normal average man.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What you're scared of depends upon both your upbringing and experiences. Male Muslims are afraid of Satan and Hell. My niece isn't. There is absolutely no proof of either Satan or Hell, so therefore Muslim men are frightened of what is essentially a fairy tale. So tell me, in this case who is more easily frightened? Is it a grown Male Muslim man or my 13-yr old niece? And again, you're stereotyping. People must be judged on individual traits. Not all Mexicans are lazy, not all Pakistani's are Muslims, not all English people are posh, not all Welsh people are farmers, not all Scottish people are drunks, not all Black people are "gangsta's", not all Italian's are in the Mafia, not all Germans are Nazi's, not all Americans are fat, not all Indians are Hindu. Do you see the problem with both your thinking and the logic behind the person who wrote this article? They make huge sweeping generalisations, if even one women is less easily frightened than a man or one man is more easily frightened than a woman then the whole article is meaningless and baseless.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Notice very carefully here that Prophet Muhammad said "woman's mind" and not "woman's brain". No where in any Islamic doctrine do we see any ridiculous uneducated and unscientific claim against women or anyone. The women's brains and ability to think is not what is being criticized here. It is as I said above their complete integrity. Notice how Allah Almighty said in the Noble Verse "...it is juster in the sight of God, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves...(The Noble Quran, 2:282)" So it is the perfect justice and the 100% complete accuracy that Allah Almighty is concerned about here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And again I ask, exactly how many times is the word "brain" used in the Qu'ran? Integrity is something that is learnt, it makes up part of our morals. It all comes from the persons brain as that is our thought centre. I know Zakir Naik would like you to believe that we have a soul but sorry to break this to you - we don't. Everything comes from the brain. To criticise someones integrity is to criticise their upbringing, their belief system and their brain. I'll also say that once again this is a case of stereotyping. You can not question a persons integrity based on someone elses. And really if the Abrahamic God was all knowing and all wise he would know this. If he doesn't then that means that I have a better moral standard than the Abrahamic God.
As for perfect justice and 100% complete accuracy being the concern here, that's just more bollocks. If perfect justice and 100% accuracy was the concern here then there would be no stereotyping, as stereotyping is not 100% accurate nor is it just. I'll use a couple of lines from the article itself "Stereotypes are rich soil for self-fulfilling prophecy. The best way to conquer these stereotypes is through education.".
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the thing you are trying to say is that all Human beings have different traits regardless of their gender.........and in the present era I agree with you that females have shown capabilities like those of males................so does this mean Quran does not adhere equal rights to them.
Islam never states that women and men are not morally equal,the inequality lies in their physical differences.
This Verse:
So why are there two witnesses of women equal to one man in financial transactions?
In an Islamic Society the women are the masters of household and the man is the one who earns(this does not mean that Islam prohibits women from working).......According to the laws of Islamic Society they(men and women) have same beliefs,same rights but different duties.If both men and women earn and there is no one to look after their kids then what would it result in.According to Science neglecting the child physically or emotionally can affect the child in a negative manner. Child neglect is a very common type of child abuse. Child abuse is more than physical abuse. Ignoring the needs of children, putting them in unsupervised or in dangerous situations, making the child feel worthless etc can affect the child and leads to the child feeling very low of themselves and may lead to loneliness in them. Many times this can affect the mental health or social development of the child and may even leave lifelong psychological scars. A child needs to feel loved and cherished.
Your talking about morals that have improved in the society past 100 or 50 years excel those of Islam or Muhammad(P.b.u.h)
Islam gave economical rights to the women 1,300 years before the West.
An adult Muslim woman can own, she can dispose or disown any of her property without consulting any one, irrespective whether she is married or she is single.
In 1870, it was the first time in England, that the West recognized the rights of the married woman, where she was allowed to own or dispose any of her property without consultation.
I do agree that the women were given their economical rights 1300 years ago - these are ancient rights - but the question is are they modernizing or outdated?
1.
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5.
It should be now clear that whose morals excel whose.
Before I conclude, I’d like to give an example.
Islam believes in equality between men and women - Equality does not mean identicality.
Suppose in a classroom 2 students, student ‘A and ‘B during an examination both come out first - Both secure 80% marks - 80 out of 100.
When you analyze the question paper, the question paper has 10 different questions, each carrying 10 marks.
In question 1 student ‘A got 9 out of 10, and student ‘B got 7 out of 10 - So in question 1 student ‘A was higher than student ‘B
In question 2, student ‘A got 7 out of 10 and student ‘B got 9 out of 10 - Student ‘B was higher than student ‘A in question number 2.
In question 3 both of them got 8 out of 10, both were equal.
So when we add up the marks of all the ten questions, both student ‘A and ‘B got 80 out of 100.
So in short, student ‘A and student ‘B are over all equal.
In some questions ‘A is higher than ‘B in some questions ‘B is higher than ‘A in others both are equal.
In the same fashion, taking the example that since God has given man more strength - Suppose a thief enters the house will you tell, ‘I believe in women’s rights - I believe in women’s rights - will you tell your mother, your sister and your daughter, to go and fight the thief?
No, but natural you’ll fight him - If required they may interfere - Under normal circumstances since God has given you more physical strength, you have to go and tackle the thief.
So here, in physical strength, man is one degree higher than the woman
Let us take another example where it comes to respecting the parents - The children are supposed to respect the mother 3 times more than the father (as mentioned earlier).
Here the women have one degree higher than the men - Over all both equal
So Islam believes in equality, not identically - Men and women are over all equal in Islam.
This was in brief, the highlights, of ‘the Women’s Rights in Islam
After this what the Muslim society did is different - Many of the Muslim societies did not give the women their rights and they deviated away from the Qur’an and the Sunnah.
The Western society is largely responsible for this - because of the Western societies, many Muslim societies have become over protective, over precautions and have gone to one extreme and deviated away from the Qur’an and the Sunnah.
On the other extreme, some of the Muslim societies turned to the Western culture, and followed their culture.
I want to tell the Western society that if you analyze the women’s rights in Islam according to the Qur’an and the Sunnah - you will realize it is modernizing and not outdated.
Demanding dowry from the wife, directly or indirectly is prohibited in Islam.
If the parents of the girl give the girl something out of their own free will, it is accepted - But demanding or forcing directly or indirectly, it is prohibited in Islam.
Slaves in Islam have been given equal rights it's not that they are forced or treated harshly.
You yourself said that women are not mentally or in any other case deficient(which is true)
than it means that womanhood can determine whats better for them.
That is why they find themselves more secure by converting into Islam.
According to "The Almanac Book of Facts", the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.
In a recent poll in the (US), 100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam, Why?
It is Clear why Christians are converting.
1. Christian Scientists are declaring the Koran is from God. Visit Here for Christian and atheist Scientists who convert to Islam and why: <a href="http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch13.html" target="_blank">http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library...s-say/ch13.html</a>
2. The Christian Bishops and Priests are admitting the Bible has tensions. <a href="http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch2.1.html" target="_blank">http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library...-say/ch2.1.html</a>
3. Jesus is a Muslim: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html</a>
The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ?
Perhaps they realize their Soul is worth the Factual Research.
1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original
Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden
tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it
was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}
2. The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a
loss" {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur'an says both
are an Equal Blessing { Qur'an 42:49}
3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in
church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur'an says
Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}
4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as
an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The
Koran does Not have Biblical double standards
{ Qur'an 30:21}
5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not
Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men
do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this
male greediness { Qur'an 4:22} and God Protects
All.
6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3}
In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only
under certain situations (with the Wife's
permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One
Wife{ Qur'an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman
the Right to Choose who to Marry.
7. "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not
pledged to be married and rapes her and they are
discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty
shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he
has violated her. He can never divorce her as long
as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}
One must ask a simple question here, who is
really punished, the man who raped the woman or
the woman who was raped? According to the
Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life
with the man who Raped You.
The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book
86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:" It is
essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the
marriage)".
Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the
Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?
8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in
Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the
chance of [censored], (God Forbid), see statistic link
below.
9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a
100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave
Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.
10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them
the human right to reach for the sky. There have been
Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries,
but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the
men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming
Presidents in predominately Christian countries,
while the Muslim countries have voted for and
elected Female Presidents.
Sorry to keep you waiting but after seeing people posting something very offensive about me I had to reply earlier even though I have an exam tomorrow. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
I think we should address issues turn by turn.....first lets see why are there two women witnesses to a single men.
"O you who believe! When you contract a debt for a fixed period, write it down. Let a scribe write it down in justice between you. Let not the scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so let him write. Let him (the debtor) who incurs the liability dictate, and he must fear Allah, his Lord, and diminish not anything of what he owes. But if the debtor is of poor understanding, or weak, or is unable himself to dictate, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her. And the witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (for evidence). You should not become weary to write it (your contract), whether it be small or big, for its fixed term, that is more just with Allah; more solid as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves, save when it is a present trade which you carry out on the spot among yourselves, then there is no sin on you if you do not write it down. But take witnesses whenever you make a commercial contract. Let neither scribe nor witness suffer any harm, but if you do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So be afraid of Allah; and Allah teaches you. And Allah is the All-Knower of each and everything."
The Noble Verse above is quite clear about providing either two reliable men or 2 reliable women in a substitution for each man in any court. But why did Allah Almighty order such a law? What is the Divine Wisdom behind it?
The Noble Verse above does not in anyway talk about women's intelligence or memory capabilities or brains. It is simply talking about the women's complete integrity. Women are by far more emotional than men. This by itself will effect the woman's ACCURACY in her witness if she is asked to explain what happened in a certain event.
Let us look at few differences between men and women to understand better:
1- Women have a lot more patience and emotions in them than men. This is one of the blessings that Allah Almighty had created in women to enable them to raise children. Men do not have enough patience in them, nor enough loving emotions in them to raise children.
2- Women can easily get frightened. Man can't. It takes a lot to frighten a normal average man.
Let us look at the following Saying from Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: "The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Witnesses, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 826)"
Notice very carefully here that Prophet Muhammad said "woman's mind" and not "woman's brain". No where in any Islamic doctrine do we see any ridiculous uneducated and unscientific claim against women or anyone. The women's brains and ability to think is not what is being criticized here. It is as I said above their complete integrity. Notice how Allah Almighty said in the Noble Verse "...it is juster in the sight of God, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves...(The Noble Quran, 2:282)" So it is the perfect justice and the 100% complete accuracy that Allah Almighty is concerned about here.
Here are some Scientific Facts:
Are two women equal to one man in Islam?
[Ref Noble Qur'aan 2:282]
"O you who believe! When you contract a debt for a fixed period, write it down. Let a scribe write it down in justice between you. Let not the scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so let him write. Let him (the debtor) who incurs the liability dictate, and he must fear Allah, his Lord, and diminish not anything of what he owes. But if the debtor is of poor understanding, or weak, or is unable himself to dictate, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her. And the witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (for evidence). You should not become weary to write it (your contract), whether it be small or big, for its fixed term, that is more just with Allah; more solid as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves, save when it is a present trade which you carry out on the spot among yourselves, then there is no sin on you if you do not write it down. But take witnesses whenever you make a commercial contract. Let neither scribe nor witness suffer any harm, but if you do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So be afraid of Allah; and Allah teaches you. And Allah is the All-Knower of each and everything."
This particular verse has frequently been used by Christian missionary and other anti-Islaam elements as an unusual and absurd claim that has nothing to do with the issue being raised in a twisted and perverted fashion. First and foremost this verse is addressing an issue in conjunction of least ideal situation which may or may not arise. But if it does, than let us explore why?
Men and women have their gender, biological, physical, and emotional differences [to name few], which results in different medical, mental, health, and psychological conditions. Those in denial or ignorant will dispute this fact without realizing that Noble Qur'aan 1,421 years ago actually protected women forever with this very verse. Many reasons which effects women's health have been discovered by modern science in recent age and will continue to be explored in future. Let us see some of those facts which impairs a woman's everyday life not to mention concentration..
Premenstrual Syndrome
(Late Luteal Phase Dysphoric Disorder)
Premenstrual Syndrome (Late Luteal Phase Dysphoric Disorder) is a concept of which the validity has been questioned for decades. While based on clinical reality, with at least 60% of all women suffering from it, PMS has served as a tool for diminishing women, for enforcing stereotypes about their unpredictable and uncontrollable character, and for ridiculing their assertive behavior. The notion of PMS got so woven into the texture of our psycho-social fabric that many women self-diagnose themselves (or let their partners do so) without really having the disorder; while others who actually do need help go untreated because they (or their doctors) simply ""don't believe" in PMS. Stereotypes are rich soil for self-fulfilling prophecy. The best way to conquer these stereotypes is through education.
Osteoporosis
Menopause is a distinct phase of a woman's life with its own special health needs and issues. Without a doubt, the single most important concern of the post menopausal women remains osteoporosis, or thinning and brittle bones.
· Traumas
· Eating Disorders
· Health Disorders
Endometriosis
It is a painful disease that may afflict 10 percent of women of child-bearing age. Endometriosis can go undetected and untreated by the medical community and wreak havoc on the sufferer's life. Many women who suffer from endometriosis eventually undergo unnecessary hysterectomies.
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
Generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) is one of the most frequent anxiety disorders with current prevalence of 1.6% and lifetime prevalence 5.1% (Wittchen, Zhao, Kessler, & Eaton, 1994). It is a chronic condition which, despite some fluctuations, is relatively stable with continuous symptom pattern (Rickels & Schweizer, 1990; Brown, Barlow & Liebowitz, 1994). It's a state of continuous apprehension and anticipation of something horrible, characterized by excessive anxiety and unrealistic worry. It often affects social and occupational functioning and might have disruptive influence on the patients' families. The impact on the patients' perception of his/her emotional and physical well-being is great.
Panic disorder and Agoraphobia
Did you know that almost 14 % of general population suffers from one of the anxiety disorders? And did you know that the majority are women? One of the most common anxiety disorders is panic disorder with or without agoraphobia (even more common are simple phobias, such as fear of heights, darkness, animals etc.). The psychological, social and economical consequences of this disorders are enormous. Many kinds of effective treatments exist. Still, a great number of panic and agoraphobic patients struggle alone, afraid of confiding in their physicians because of the stigma attached to mental problems. Some physicians fail to recognize the symptoms. If you suffer from hyperventilation, palpitations, tingling sensations, dizziness or chest pain that suddenly come and suddenly disappear, you might be suffering from panic disorder. Wait no longer. There is help.
Relationship Issues
a.. Arguing
b.. Co-dependency
c.. Making Relationships Work
d.. Negative Thinking
e.. Sleep Hygiene
For some, falling asleep is as simple as laying back into a soft pillow. But for others, it is a frustrating process of tossing, turning and glancing nervously at the advancing clock. Whether you awake refreshed and ready to face the day or red-eyed and sluggish depends on your sleep hygiene. Sleep hygiene is your personal collection of habits that determine the quality of your sleep.
For further information check this link of American medical Association [Women's Health Issues] <a href="http://www.ama-assn.org/special/womh/womh.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ama-assn.org/special/womh/womh.htm</a>
American Medical Association <a href="http://www.ama-assn.org/" target="_blank">http://www.ama-assn.org/</a>
American Psychological Association [Women's Health] <a href="http://helping.apa.org/" target="_blank">http://helping.apa.org/</a>
American Psychological Association <a href="http://www.apa.org/" target="_blank">http://www.apa.org/</a>
There are literally hundreds of mental, psychological, medical and emotional conditions that modern science has discovered that a women suffers from her birth till she dies, let alone PMS or Child birth, to death in family, or sickness or death of child of close kin. To avoid lengthy response I have provided the links above. Where one can find expert opinions and women's health info.
[Ref Noble Qur'aan 2:282]
"O you who believe! When you contract a debt for a fixed period, write it down. Let a scribe write it down in justice between you. Let not the scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so let him write. Let him (the debtor) who incurs the liability dictate, and he must fear Allah, his Lord, and diminish not anything of what he owes. But if the debtor is of poor understanding, or weak, or is unable himself to dictate, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her. And the witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (for evidence). You should not become weary to write it (your contract), whether it be small or big, for its fixed term, that is more just with Allah; more solid as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves, save when it is a present trade which you carry out on the spot among yourselves, then there is no sin on you if you do not write it down. But take witnesses whenever you make a commercial contract. Let neither scribe nor witness suffer any harm, but if you do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So be afraid of Allah; and Allah teaches you. And Allah is the All-Knower of each and everything."
This particular verse has frequently been used by Christian missionary and other anti-Islaam elements as an unusual and absurd claim that has nothing to do with the issue being raised in a twisted and perverted fashion. First and foremost this verse is addressing an issue in conjunction of least ideal situation which may or may not arise. But if it does, than let us explore why?
Men and women have their gender, biological, physical, and emotional differences [to name few], which results in different medical, mental, health, and psychological conditions. Those in denial or ignorant will dispute this fact without realizing that Noble Qur'aan 1,421 years ago actually protected women forever with this very verse. Many reasons which effects women's health have been discovered by modern science in recent age and will continue to be explored in future. Let us see some of those facts which impairs a woman's everyday life not to mention concentration..
Premenstrual Syndrome
(Late Luteal Phase Dysphoric Disorder)
Premenstrual Syndrome (Late Luteal Phase Dysphoric Disorder) is a concept of which the validity has been questioned for decades. While based on clinical reality, with at least 60% of all women suffering from it, PMS has served as a tool for diminishing women, for enforcing stereotypes about their unpredictable and uncontrollable character, and for ridiculing their assertive behavior. The notion of PMS got so woven into the texture of our psycho-social fabric that many women self-diagnose themselves (or let their partners do so) without really having the disorder; while others who actually do need help go untreated because they (or their doctors) simply ""don't believe" in PMS. Stereotypes are rich soil for self-fulfilling prophecy. The best way to conquer these stereotypes is through education.
Osteoporosis
Menopause is a distinct phase of a woman's life with its own special health needs and issues. Without a doubt, the single most important concern of the post menopausal women remains osteoporosis, or thinning and brittle bones.
· Traumas
· Eating Disorders
· Health Disorders
Endometriosis
It is a painful disease that may afflict 10 percent of women of child-bearing age. Endometriosis can go undetected and untreated by the medical community and wreak havoc on the sufferer's life. Many women who suffer from endometriosis eventually undergo unnecessary hysterectomies.
Generalized Anxiety Disorder
Generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) is one of the most frequent anxiety disorders with current prevalence of 1.6% and lifetime prevalence 5.1% (Wittchen, Zhao, Kessler, & Eaton, 1994). It is a chronic condition which, despite some fluctuations, is relatively stable with continuous symptom pattern (Rickels & Schweizer, 1990; Brown, Barlow & Liebowitz, 1994). It's a state of continuous apprehension and anticipation of something horrible, characterized by excessive anxiety and unrealistic worry. It often affects social and occupational functioning and might have disruptive influence on the patients' families. The impact on the patients' perception of his/her emotional and physical well-being is great.
Panic disorder and Agoraphobia
Did you know that almost 14 % of general population suffers from one of the anxiety disorders? And did you know that the majority are women? One of the most common anxiety disorders is panic disorder with or without agoraphobia (even more common are simple phobias, such as fear of heights, darkness, animals etc.). The psychological, social and economical consequences of this disorders are enormous. Many kinds of effective treatments exist. Still, a great number of panic and agoraphobic patients struggle alone, afraid of confiding in their physicians because of the stigma attached to mental problems. Some physicians fail to recognize the symptoms. If you suffer from hyperventilation, palpitations, tingling sensations, dizziness or chest pain that suddenly come and suddenly disappear, you might be suffering from panic disorder. Wait no longer. There is help.
Relationship Issues
a.. Arguing
b.. Co-dependency
c.. Making Relationships Work
d.. Negative Thinking
e.. Sleep Hygiene
For some, falling asleep is as simple as laying back into a soft pillow. But for others, it is a frustrating process of tossing, turning and glancing nervously at the advancing clock. Whether you awake refreshed and ready to face the day or red-eyed and sluggish depends on your sleep hygiene. Sleep hygiene is your personal collection of habits that determine the quality of your sleep.
For further information check this link of American medical Association [Women's Health Issues] <a href="http://www.ama-assn.org/special/womh/womh.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ama-assn.org/special/womh/womh.htm</a>
American Medical Association <a href="http://www.ama-assn.org/" target="_blank">http://www.ama-assn.org/</a>
American Psychological Association [Women's Health] <a href="http://helping.apa.org/" target="_blank">http://helping.apa.org/</a>
American Psychological Association <a href="http://www.apa.org/" target="_blank">http://www.apa.org/</a>
There are literally hundreds of mental, psychological, medical and emotional conditions that modern science has discovered that a women suffers from her birth till she dies, let alone PMS or Child birth, to death in family, or sickness or death of child of close kin. To avoid lengthy response I have provided the links above. Where one can find expert opinions and women's health info.
All I see there is someone trying to retain Mohammeds reputation as "the perfect man" and "the example for all mankind for all-time". None of these things were thought, taught or mentioned about this verse until more recent times. And the reason for the change of thinking? It's because in Liberal Secular democracies we have learnt from our mistakes and pasts and cast off our old, outdated stereotyped views passed on through religion about women. Our morals have improved, and as our morals begin to excel those of Mohammeds so scholars and apologists have had to rewrite Islamic history and the meanings of what Mohammed says in order to maintain the illusion that he was the most moral person in history. If our morals and outlook hadn't changed then neither would the meaning of this verse/Hadith. Is this piece written a hundred years ago? Two hundred years ago? No, it's written in modern times. Show me a piece written by a scholar closer to Mohammeds time that says this is what he meant and I'll believe it. One from even just 100 years ago will do.
Until then I'll take what he said at face value. Specially when he also said and did all these other things :
Allah's Messenger said, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven." - Al-Tirmidhi 3257
Allah's Apostle said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning." - Bukhari 4:460
The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you." - Bukhari 1:28
Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." - Bukhari 6:302
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: that while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence." - Sahih Bukhari 3:34:432
Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'A'isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? - Sahih Muslim 4:2127
Allah's Apostle said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the angels will curse her till morning." - Bukhari 4:460
The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you." - Bukhari 1:28
Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion." - Bukhari 6:302
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: that while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence." - Sahih Bukhari 3:34:432
Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'A'isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? - Sahih Muslim 4:2127
If Mohammed really was the champion of women then why would he allow them to be taken as war booty? Why would he allow female slaves? Why would he have taken female captives himself? Now matter how you try to spin this Mohammeds own actions count as evidence against him. If you look at the picture as a whole, rather than at the snippets that are shown to you to make him seem like "the perfect man" you see that he viewed women as inferior to men and as property. If the morals of the average non-believer hadn't have grown then none of these Hadiths would ever have been questioned. It's just that the modern non-believers morals are becoming vastly superior to Mohammeds, therefore the need to defend what he said and protect his reputation has arisen. Why did God not teach Mohammed that slavery is wrong and why did Mohammed no pass that message on? We as humans learnt our lesson a long time ago. Should our morals excel those of an All Knowing, All Wise and All Compassionate and perfect being? If they do then surely he should be worshipping and submitting to us, not the other way around. Unless you'd like to tell me now that slavery is OK and moral?
Moving on to the article itself that you posted.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Noble Verse above does not in anyway talk about women's intelligence or memory capabilities or brains. It is simply talking about the women's complete integrity.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How many times does the Qu'ran actually mention the brain at all? As for critiquing womens integrity, don't you think that's a little bigoted and prejudicial? You can no more judge a woman based on womanhood than you can an individual Muslim based on other Muslims. Otherwise the saying "All Muslims are terrorist" holds weight, and we both know that argument holds no weight whatsoever.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Women are by far more emotional than men. This by itself will effect the woman's ACCURACY in her witness if she is asked to explain what happened in a certain event.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Women are not far more emotional than men. Please educate yourself. There are women who are more emotional than men, yes. There are however men who are more emotional than women. You can not judge a indivuidal based on a group, you can only judge an individual. As for emotion effecting the accuracy of a womans testimony, men suffer the same problem. Emotion is a human trait, not just a female one.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1- Women have a lot more patience and emotions in them than men. This is one of the blessings that Allah Almighty had created in women to enable them to raise children. Men do not have enough patience in them, nor enough loving emotions in them to raise children.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What complete and utter bollocks. It's this kind of belief that used to stop deserving men from getting custody of their children after a divorce. Women are no more naturally patient than men. Patience is a virtue that is learnt, it's not a natural emotion. If it was a natural human trait then there would be no impatience, and clearly the world is full of impatient people. And as for men not having enough loving emotions in them to raise children, you can pop that thought in an envelope and post it back to the pre-1950's. There are plenty of men with more than enough loving emotions in them. There are plenty of men who do an incredible job of raising their children to be kind, helpful and productive members of society. To say any different is bigoted and stereotyping. There are very few types of people you can judge based upon the collective group that they belong to. Again I refer you to the phrase "All Muslims are terrorists". Is this true? No it isn't. So why is it fair for you to say "All men are so and so"? It is absolutely no different. The internet is a huge (virtual) place that holds more information than one man could learn in a life time. I suggest using it. I know you're taught to only ask scholars and only refer to things that scholars have said, written and taught but there is a psychological reason behind that. Break free from it and learn for yourself, you'll be surprised by some of the things you'll learn. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2- Women can easily get frightened. Man can't. It takes a lot to frighten a normal average man.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What you're scared of depends upon both your upbringing and experiences. Male Muslims are afraid of Satan and Hell. My niece isn't. There is absolutely no proof of either Satan or Hell, so therefore Muslim men are frightened of what is essentially a fairy tale. So tell me, in this case who is more easily frightened? Is it a grown Male Muslim man or my 13-yr old niece? And again, you're stereotyping. People must be judged on individual traits. Not all Mexicans are lazy, not all Pakistani's are Muslims, not all English people are posh, not all Welsh people are farmers, not all Scottish people are drunks, not all Black people are "gangsta's", not all Italian's are in the Mafia, not all Germans are Nazi's, not all Americans are fat, not all Indians are Hindu. Do you see the problem with both your thinking and the logic behind the person who wrote this article? They make huge sweeping generalisations, if even one women is less easily frightened than a man or one man is more easily frightened than a woman then the whole article is meaningless and baseless.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Notice very carefully here that Prophet Muhammad said "woman's mind" and not "woman's brain". No where in any Islamic doctrine do we see any ridiculous uneducated and unscientific claim against women or anyone. The women's brains and ability to think is not what is being criticized here. It is as I said above their complete integrity. Notice how Allah Almighty said in the Noble Verse "...it is juster in the sight of God, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves...(The Noble Quran, 2:282)" So it is the perfect justice and the 100% complete accuracy that Allah Almighty is concerned about here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And again I ask, exactly how many times is the word "brain" used in the Qu'ran? Integrity is something that is learnt, it makes up part of our morals. It all comes from the persons brain as that is our thought centre. I know Zakir Naik would like you to believe that we have a soul but sorry to break this to you - we don't. Everything comes from the brain. To criticise someones integrity is to criticise their upbringing, their belief system and their brain. I'll also say that once again this is a case of stereotyping. You can not question a persons integrity based on someone elses. And really if the Abrahamic God was all knowing and all wise he would know this. If he doesn't then that means that I have a better moral standard than the Abrahamic God.
As for perfect justice and 100% complete accuracy being the concern here, that's just more bollocks. If perfect justice and 100% accuracy was the concern here then there would be no stereotyping, as stereotyping is not 100% accurate nor is it just. I'll use a couple of lines from the article itself "Stereotypes are rich soil for self-fulfilling prophecy. The best way to conquer these stereotypes is through education.".
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the thing you are trying to say is that all Human beings have different traits regardless of their gender.........and in the present era I agree with you that females have shown capabilities like those of males................so does this mean Quran does not adhere equal rights to them.
Islam never states that women and men are not morally equal,the inequality lies in their physical differences.
This Verse:
Noble Verse 2:282 "O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing; let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as God Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord God, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of God, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear God; For it is Good that teaches you. And God is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, – his heart is tainted with sin. And God knoweth all that ye do."
So why are there two witnesses of women equal to one man in financial transactions?
In an Islamic Society the women are the masters of household and the man is the one who earns(this does not mean that Islam prohibits women from working).......According to the laws of Islamic Society they(men and women) have same beliefs,same rights but different duties.If both men and women earn and there is no one to look after their kids then what would it result in.According to Science neglecting the child physically or emotionally can affect the child in a negative manner. Child neglect is a very common type of child abuse. Child abuse is more than physical abuse. Ignoring the needs of children, putting them in unsupervised or in dangerous situations, making the child feel worthless etc can affect the child and leads to the child feeling very low of themselves and may lead to loneliness in them. Many times this can affect the mental health or social development of the child and may even leave lifelong psychological scars. A child needs to feel loved and cherished.
Your talking about morals that have improved in the society past 100 or 50 years excel those of Islam or Muhammad(P.b.u.h)
Islam gave economical rights to the women 1,300 years before the West.
An adult Muslim woman can own, she can dispose or disown any of her property without consulting any one, irrespective whether she is married or she is single.
In 1870, it was the first time in England, that the West recognized the rights of the married woman, where she was allowed to own or dispose any of her property without consultation.
I do agree that the women were given their economical rights 1300 years ago - these are ancient rights - but the question is are they modernizing or outdated?
1.
A women in Islam, if she wishes to work she can work - There is no text in the Qur’an or the authentic Hadith which prevents or makes it prohibited for a woman to do any work, as long as it is not unlawful, as long as it is within the preview of the Islamic Shariah, as long as she maintains her Islamic dress code.
But natural, she cannot take up jobs, which exhibit her beauty and body - Like for example, modeling and film acting, and such kind of jobs.
Many of the professions and jobs which are prohibited for the woman are also prohibited for the man, for example serving alcohol, working in gambling dens, doing any unethical or dishonest business. All these jobs are prohibited for both men and women.
A true Islamic society requires women to take up profession such as doctors.
We do require female Gynecologists, we do require female nurses, we do require female teachers.
But, a woman in Islam has got no financial obligations - The financial obligation is laid on the shoulders of the man in the family - Therefore she need not work for her livelihood.
But in genuine cases, where there are financial crisis in which both the ends do not meet, she has the option of working.
Here too, no one can force her to work - She works out of her own, absolute free will.
But natural, she cannot take up jobs, which exhibit her beauty and body - Like for example, modeling and film acting, and such kind of jobs.
Many of the professions and jobs which are prohibited for the woman are also prohibited for the man, for example serving alcohol, working in gambling dens, doing any unethical or dishonest business. All these jobs are prohibited for both men and women.
A true Islamic society requires women to take up profession such as doctors.
We do require female Gynecologists, we do require female nurses, we do require female teachers.
But, a woman in Islam has got no financial obligations - The financial obligation is laid on the shoulders of the man in the family - Therefore she need not work for her livelihood.
But in genuine cases, where there are financial crisis in which both the ends do not meet, she has the option of working.
Here too, no one can force her to work - She works out of her own, absolute free will.
2.
A woman in Islam has been given more financial security, as compared to the man.
As I told you earlier, the financial obligation is not put on her shoulder - It is put on the shoulder of the man in the family. It is the duty of the father or the brother, before she is married and the duty of the husband or the son, after she is married to look after her lodging, boarding, clothing and financial aspects of her.
As I told you earlier, the financial obligation is not put on her shoulder - It is put on the shoulder of the man in the family. It is the duty of the father or the brother, before she is married and the duty of the husband or the son, after she is married to look after her lodging, boarding, clothing and financial aspects of her.
3.
When she gets married, she is on the receiving end.
She receives a gift - she receives a dower or a marital gift, which is called as ‘Meher
And it is mentioned in the Qur’an in Surah Nisa, Ch.4 Verse No.4 which says, ‘Give to the woman in dower, a marital gift
For a marriage to solemnize in Islam, ‘Meher is compulsory.
But unfortunately in our Muslim society here, we just keep a nominal ‘Meher to satisfy the Qur’an, say 151 Rupees, or some people give 786 Rupees and they spend lakhs and lakhs of Rupees on the reception, on the decoration, on the flowers, on the lunch parties, on the dinner parties.
In Islam, there is no lower-limit, nor is there an upper limit for ‘Meher - But when a person can spend lakhs of Rupees on the reception, surely the ‘Meher should be much more.
There are various cultures which have crept into the Muslim societies, specially in the Indo-Pak area.
They give a small amount of ‘Meher and they expect the wife to give a fridge, to give a T.V set, they expect the wife to give an apartment, to give a car, etc., and a large sum of dowry, depending upon the status of the husband.
If he is a graduate, they may expect 1 lakh - If he is an engineer they may expect 3 lakhs - If he is a doctor they may expect 5 lakhs.
She receives a gift - she receives a dower or a marital gift, which is called as ‘Meher
And it is mentioned in the Qur’an in Surah Nisa, Ch.4 Verse No.4 which says, ‘Give to the woman in dower, a marital gift
For a marriage to solemnize in Islam, ‘Meher is compulsory.
But unfortunately in our Muslim society here, we just keep a nominal ‘Meher to satisfy the Qur’an, say 151 Rupees, or some people give 786 Rupees and they spend lakhs and lakhs of Rupees on the reception, on the decoration, on the flowers, on the lunch parties, on the dinner parties.
In Islam, there is no lower-limit, nor is there an upper limit for ‘Meher - But when a person can spend lakhs of Rupees on the reception, surely the ‘Meher should be much more.
There are various cultures which have crept into the Muslim societies, specially in the Indo-Pak area.
They give a small amount of ‘Meher and they expect the wife to give a fridge, to give a T.V set, they expect the wife to give an apartment, to give a car, etc., and a large sum of dowry, depending upon the status of the husband.
If he is a graduate, they may expect 1 lakh - If he is an engineer they may expect 3 lakhs - If he is a doctor they may expect 5 lakhs.
4.
If a Woman works, which she does not have to - whatever earning she gets, it is absolutely her property.
She need not spend on the household - if she wants to spend it is her free will.
Irrespective how rich the wife is, it is the duty of the husband to give lodging, boarding, clothing and look after the financial aspects of the wife.
In case of divorce or if a wife gets widowed, she is given financial support for the period of ‘Iddah - and if she has children, she is also given child support
She need not spend on the household - if she wants to spend it is her free will.
Irrespective how rich the wife is, it is the duty of the husband to give lodging, boarding, clothing and look after the financial aspects of the wife.
In case of divorce or if a wife gets widowed, she is given financial support for the period of ‘Iddah - and if she has children, she is also given child support
5.
Islam gave the right to the women to inherit, centuries ago.
If you read the Qur’an - in several verses, in Surah Nisa, in Surah Baqarah and in Surah Maidah, it is mentioned that a woman, irrespective she is a wife or she is a mother, or a sister, or a daughter, she has a right to inherit. And it has been fixed by God Almighty in the Qur’an.
If you read the Qur’an - in several verses, in Surah Nisa, in Surah Baqarah and in Surah Maidah, it is mentioned that a woman, irrespective she is a wife or she is a mother, or a sister, or a daughter, she has a right to inherit. And it has been fixed by God Almighty in the Qur’an.
It should be now clear that whose morals excel whose.
Before I conclude, I’d like to give an example.
Islam believes in equality between men and women - Equality does not mean identicality.
Suppose in a classroom 2 students, student ‘A and ‘B during an examination both come out first - Both secure 80% marks - 80 out of 100.
When you analyze the question paper, the question paper has 10 different questions, each carrying 10 marks.
In question 1 student ‘A got 9 out of 10, and student ‘B got 7 out of 10 - So in question 1 student ‘A was higher than student ‘B
In question 2, student ‘A got 7 out of 10 and student ‘B got 9 out of 10 - Student ‘B was higher than student ‘A in question number 2.
In question 3 both of them got 8 out of 10, both were equal.
So when we add up the marks of all the ten questions, both student ‘A and ‘B got 80 out of 100.
So in short, student ‘A and student ‘B are over all equal.
In some questions ‘A is higher than ‘B in some questions ‘B is higher than ‘A in others both are equal.
In the same fashion, taking the example that since God has given man more strength - Suppose a thief enters the house will you tell, ‘I believe in women’s rights - I believe in women’s rights - will you tell your mother, your sister and your daughter, to go and fight the thief?
No, but natural you’ll fight him - If required they may interfere - Under normal circumstances since God has given you more physical strength, you have to go and tackle the thief.
So here, in physical strength, man is one degree higher than the woman
Let us take another example where it comes to respecting the parents - The children are supposed to respect the mother 3 times more than the father (as mentioned earlier).
Here the women have one degree higher than the men - Over all both equal
So Islam believes in equality, not identically - Men and women are over all equal in Islam.
This was in brief, the highlights, of ‘the Women’s Rights in Islam
After this what the Muslim society did is different - Many of the Muslim societies did not give the women their rights and they deviated away from the Qur’an and the Sunnah.
The Western society is largely responsible for this - because of the Western societies, many Muslim societies have become over protective, over precautions and have gone to one extreme and deviated away from the Qur’an and the Sunnah.
On the other extreme, some of the Muslim societies turned to the Western culture, and followed their culture.
I want to tell the Western society that if you analyze the women’s rights in Islam according to the Qur’an and the Sunnah - you will realize it is modernizing and not outdated.
Demanding dowry from the wife, directly or indirectly is prohibited in Islam.
If the parents of the girl give the girl something out of their own free will, it is accepted - But demanding or forcing directly or indirectly, it is prohibited in Islam.
Slaves in Islam have been given equal rights it's not that they are forced or treated harshly.
You yourself said that women are not mentally or in any other case deficient(which is true)
than it means that womanhood can determine whats better for them.
That is why they find themselves more secure by converting into Islam.
According to "The Almanac Book of Facts", the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.
In a recent poll in the (US), 100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam, Why?
It is Clear why Christians are converting.
1. Christian Scientists are declaring the Koran is from God. Visit Here for Christian and atheist Scientists who convert to Islam and why: <a href="http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch13.html" target="_blank">http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library...s-say/ch13.html</a>
2. The Christian Bishops and Priests are admitting the Bible has tensions. <a href="http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch2.1.html" target="_blank">http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library...-say/ch2.1.html</a>
3. Jesus is a Muslim: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html</a>
The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ?
Perhaps they realize their Soul is worth the Factual Research.
1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original
Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden
tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it
was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}
2. The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a
loss" {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur'an says both
are an Equal Blessing { Qur'an 42:49}
3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in
church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur'an says
Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}
4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as
an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The
Koran does Not have Biblical double standards
{ Qur'an 30:21}
5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not
Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men
do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this
male greediness { Qur'an 4:22} and God Protects
All.
6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3}
In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only
under certain situations (with the Wife's
permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One
Wife{ Qur'an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman
the Right to Choose who to Marry.
7. "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not
pledged to be married and rapes her and they are
discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty
shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he
has violated her. He can never divorce her as long
as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}
One must ask a simple question here, who is
really punished, the man who raped the woman or
the woman who was raped? According to the
Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life
with the man who Raped You.
The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book
86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:" It is
essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the
marriage)".
Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the
Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?
8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in
Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the
chance of [censored], (God Forbid), see statistic link
below.
9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a
100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave
Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.
10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them
the human right to reach for the sky. There have been
Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries,
but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the
men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming
Presidents in predominately Christian countries,
while the Muslim countries have voted for and
elected Female Presidents.
Sorry to keep you waiting but after seeing people posting something very offensive about me I had to reply earlier even though I have an exam tomorrow. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
i'm a muslim too and i'm aware of this and agrre with samashSamAsh07 said:
muslims are going away from their religion
and especially islamist who claim things that god didn't say at all and use it to gain control of the politics
(i remember some guy who said that woment shouldn't work exept if they breastfeed their coworkers... WTF)
<!--quoteo(post=3702407:date=Jun 9 2011, 04:37 AM:name=bsfmtl123)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bsfmtl123 @ Jun 9 2011, 04:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3702407"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So the thing you are trying to say is that all Human beings have different traits regardless of their gender.........and in the present era I agree with you that females have shown capabilities like those of males................so does this mean Quran does not adhere equal rights to them.
Islam never states that women and men are not morally equal,the inequality lies in their physical differences.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said before, there are physical differences between black and white people. There are physical differences between every race. Why would we not give everyone equal opportunities just because of their physical state?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This Verse:
So why are there two witnesses of women equal to one man in financial transactions?
In an Islamic Society the women are the masters of household and the man is the one who earns(this does not mean that Islam prohibits women from working).......According to the laws of Islamic Society they(men and women) have same beliefs,same rights but different duties.If both men and women earn and there is no one to look after their kids then what would it result in.According to Science neglecting the child physically or emotionally can affect the child in a negative manner. Child neglect is a very common type of child abuse. Child abuse is more than physical abuse. Ignoring the needs of children, putting them in unsupervised or in dangerous situations, making the child feel worthless etc can affect the child and leads to the child feeling very low of themselves and may lead to loneliness in them. Many times this can affect the mental health or social development of the child and may even leave lifelong psychological scars. A child needs to feel loved and cherished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Men are just as capable as women at being stay at home "mothers". The father and mother are not the only people capable of looking after their child either. How is it a reasonable conclusion that if both parents are working the child will be left to be neglected?
You seem to be bending over backwards to include any scientific information as if it adds validity to your argument.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your talking about morals that have improved in the society past 100 or 50 years excel those of Islam or Muhammad(P.b.u.h)
Islam gave economical rights to the women 1,300 years before the West.
An adult Muslim woman can own, she can dispose or disown any of her property without consulting any one, irrespective whether she is married or she is single.
In 1870, it was the first time in England, that the West recognized the rights of the married woman, where she was allowed to own or dispose any of her property without consultation.
I do agree that the women were given their economical rights 1300 years ago - these are ancient rights - but the question is are they modernizing or outdated?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Islam had revolutionary moral ideas for its time but morals are constantly evolving. It would be rather ridiculous to follow the same moral standards of thousands of years ago.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So a women can't do what she wants with her body and is only allowed to wear what Islam finds acceptable.
The financial obligation shouldn't be on the man.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why does having inequality for the men justify having inequality for the women?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just another example of inequality. Your logic seems to be that if both men and women have unequal rights then they somehow balance out.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just more of the same. What is the reasoning behind this anyway? Why are women incapable of handling their own financial problems?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5.
It should be now clear that whose morals excel whose.
Before I conclude, I’d like to give an example.
Islam believes in equality between men and women - Equality does not mean identicality.
Suppose in a classroom 2 students, student ‘A and ‘B during an examination both come out first - Both secure 80% marks - 80 out of 100.
When you analyze the question paper, the question paper has 10 different questions, each carrying 10 marks.
In question 1 student ‘A got 9 out of 10, and student ‘B got 7 out of 10 - So in question 1 student ‘A was higher than student ‘B
In question 2, student ‘A got 7 out of 10 and student ‘B got 9 out of 10 - Student ‘B was higher than student ‘A in question number 2.
In question 3 both of them got 8 out of 10, both were equal.
So when we add up the marks of all the ten questions, both student ‘A and ‘B got 80 out of 100.
So in short, student ‘A and student ‘B are over all equal.
In some questions ‘A is higher than ‘B in some questions ‘B is higher than ‘A in others both are equal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not a very good analogy. You could use the same argument for giving different races different rights.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the same fashion, taking the example that since God has given man more strength - Suppose a thief enters the house will you tell, ‘I believe in women’s rights - I believe in women’s rights - will you tell your mother, your sister and your daughter, to go and fight the thief?
No, but natural you’ll fight him - If required they may interfere - Under normal circumstances since God has given you more physical strength, you have to go and tackle the thief.
So here, in physical strength, man is one degree higher than the woman<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is more of an appeal to tradition than evidence. The tradition being that the man is supposed to be strong and tough while the woman is supposed to be frail and fragile.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let us take another example where it comes to respecting the parents - The children are supposed to respect the mother 3 times more than the father (as mentioned earlier).
Here the women have one degree higher than the men - Over all both equal
So Islam believes in equality, not identically - Men and women are over all equal in Islam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nearly the same thing was said about white and black people in the United States when we still had segregation laws. I implore you to think of an argument that cannot also be used in the justification of unequal rights of people of different races. The reason I keep reiterating this point is because I have yet to see any difference between the justifications you are giving and the justifications that could be given for racism.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This was in brief, the highlights, of ‘the Women’s Rights in Islam
After this what the Muslim society did is different - Many of the Muslim societies did not give the women their rights and they deviated away from the Qur’an and the Sunnah.
The Western society is largely responsible for this - because of the Western societies, many Muslim societies have become over protective, over precautions and have gone to one extreme and deviated away from the Qur’an and the Sunnah.
On the other extreme, some of the Muslim societies turned to the Western culture, and followed their culture.
I want to tell the Western society that if you analyze the women’s rights in Islam according to the Qur’an and the Sunnah - you will realize it is modernizing and not outdated.
Demanding dowry from the wife, directly or indirectly is prohibited in Islam.
If the parents of the girl give the girl something out of their own free will, it is accepted - But demanding or forcing directly or indirectly, it is prohibited in Islam.
Slaves in Islam have been given equal rights it's not that they are forced or treated harshly.
You yourself said that women are not mentally or in any other case deficient(which is true)
than it means that womanhood can determine whats better for them.
That is why they find themselves more secure by converting into Islam.
According to "The Almanac Book of Facts", the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is an appeal to popularity and it is a logical fallacy.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In a recent poll in the (US), 100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam, Why?
It is Clear why Christians are converting.
1. Christian Scientists are declaring the Koran is from God. Visit Here for Christian and atheist Scientists who convert to Islam and why: <a href="http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch13.html" target="_blank">http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library...s-say/ch13.html</a>
2. The Christian Bishops and Priests are admitting the Bible has tensions. <a href="http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch2.1.html" target="_blank">http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library...-say/ch2.1.html</a>
3. Jesus is a Muslim: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html</a>
The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ?
Perhaps they realize their Soul is worth the Factual Research.
1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original
Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden
tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it
was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}
2. The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a
loss" {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur'an says both
are an Equal Blessing { Qur'an 42:49}
3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in
church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur'an says
Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}
4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as
an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The
Koran does Not have Biblical double standards
{ Qur'an 30:21}
5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not
Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men
do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this
male greediness { Qur'an 4:22} and God Protects
All.
6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3}
In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only
under certain situations (with the Wife's
permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One
Wife{ Qur'an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman
the Right to Choose who to Marry.
7. "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not
pledged to be married and rapes her and they are
discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty
shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he
has violated her. He can never divorce her as long
as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}
One must ask a simple question here, who is
really punished, the man who raped the woman or
the woman who was raped? According to the
Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life
with the man who Raped You.
The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book
86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:" It is
essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the
marriage)".
Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the
Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?
8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in
Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the
chance of [censored], (God Forbid), see statistic link
below.
9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a
100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave
Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.
10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them
the human right to reach for the sky. There have been
Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries,
but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the
men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming
Presidents in predominately Christian countries,
while the Muslim countries have voted for and
elected Female Presidents.
Sorry to keep you waiting but after seeing people posting something very offensive about me I had to reply earlier even though I have an exam tomorrow. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is hardly relevant to the topic of equal rights at all. Just because Islam is the lesser of two evils doesn't make its moral standards right.
A great deal of your argument appears to be copied and pasted from somewhere else (in fact I just checked and it is <a href="http://www.themuslimwoman.com/WhySoManyWomenConverting.htm" target="_blank">link</a>). I don't know what you found so offensive about what was posted about you but it would be a good idea to think for yourself instead of letting others think for you. Why didn't you construct your own argument instead of copying the ideas of someone else?
Edit:
The more I look the more I'm finding your argument is just plagiarism. It appears to be almost entirely plagiarism. It is rather dishonest to portray someone else's work as your own and not give any credit to the author of that work.
Islam never states that women and men are not morally equal,the inequality lies in their physical differences.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said before, there are physical differences between black and white people. There are physical differences between every race. Why would we not give everyone equal opportunities just because of their physical state?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This Verse:
Noble Verse 2:282 "O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing; let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as God Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord God, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of God, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear God; For it is Good that teaches you. And God is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, – his heart is tainted with sin. And God knoweth all that ye do."
So why are there two witnesses of women equal to one man in financial transactions?
In an Islamic Society the women are the masters of household and the man is the one who earns(this does not mean that Islam prohibits women from working).......According to the laws of Islamic Society they(men and women) have same beliefs,same rights but different duties.If both men and women earn and there is no one to look after their kids then what would it result in.According to Science neglecting the child physically or emotionally can affect the child in a negative manner. Child neglect is a very common type of child abuse. Child abuse is more than physical abuse. Ignoring the needs of children, putting them in unsupervised or in dangerous situations, making the child feel worthless etc can affect the child and leads to the child feeling very low of themselves and may lead to loneliness in them. Many times this can affect the mental health or social development of the child and may even leave lifelong psychological scars. A child needs to feel loved and cherished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Men are just as capable as women at being stay at home "mothers". The father and mother are not the only people capable of looking after their child either. How is it a reasonable conclusion that if both parents are working the child will be left to be neglected?
You seem to be bending over backwards to include any scientific information as if it adds validity to your argument.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your talking about morals that have improved in the society past 100 or 50 years excel those of Islam or Muhammad(P.b.u.h)
Islam gave economical rights to the women 1,300 years before the West.
An adult Muslim woman can own, she can dispose or disown any of her property without consulting any one, irrespective whether she is married or she is single.
In 1870, it was the first time in England, that the West recognized the rights of the married woman, where she was allowed to own or dispose any of her property without consultation.
I do agree that the women were given their economical rights 1300 years ago - these are ancient rights - but the question is are they modernizing or outdated?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Islam had revolutionary moral ideas for its time but morals are constantly evolving. It would be rather ridiculous to follow the same moral standards of thousands of years ago.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1.
A women in Islam, if she wishes to work she can work - There is no text in the Qur’an or the authentic Hadith which prevents or makes it prohibited for a woman to do any work, as long as it is not unlawful, as long as it is within the preview of the Islamic Shariah, as long as she maintains her Islamic dress code.
But natural, she cannot take up jobs, which exhibit her beauty and body - Like for example, modeling and film acting, and such kind of jobs.
Many of the professions and jobs which are prohibited for the woman are also prohibited for the man, for example serving alcohol, working in gambling dens, doing any unethical or dishonest business. All these jobs are prohibited for both men and women.
A true Islamic society requires women to take up profession such as doctors.
We do require female Gynecologists, we do require female nurses, we do require female teachers.
But, a woman in Islam has got no financial obligations - The financial obligation is laid on the shoulders of the man in the family - Therefore she need not work for her livelihood.
But in genuine cases, where there are financial crisis in which both the ends do not meet, she has the option of working.
Here too, no one can force her to work - She works out of her own, absolute free will.
But natural, she cannot take up jobs, which exhibit her beauty and body - Like for example, modeling and film acting, and such kind of jobs.
Many of the professions and jobs which are prohibited for the woman are also prohibited for the man, for example serving alcohol, working in gambling dens, doing any unethical or dishonest business. All these jobs are prohibited for both men and women.
A true Islamic society requires women to take up profession such as doctors.
We do require female Gynecologists, we do require female nurses, we do require female teachers.
But, a woman in Islam has got no financial obligations - The financial obligation is laid on the shoulders of the man in the family - Therefore she need not work for her livelihood.
But in genuine cases, where there are financial crisis in which both the ends do not meet, she has the option of working.
Here too, no one can force her to work - She works out of her own, absolute free will.
So a women can't do what she wants with her body and is only allowed to wear what Islam finds acceptable.
The financial obligation shouldn't be on the man.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2.
A woman in Islam has been given more financial security, as compared to the man.
As I told you earlier, the financial obligation is not put on her shoulder - It is put on the shoulder of the man in the family. It is the duty of the father or the brother, before she is married and the duty of the husband or the son, after she is married to look after her lodging, boarding, clothing and financial aspects of her.
As I told you earlier, the financial obligation is not put on her shoulder - It is put on the shoulder of the man in the family. It is the duty of the father or the brother, before she is married and the duty of the husband or the son, after she is married to look after her lodging, boarding, clothing and financial aspects of her.
Why does having inequality for the men justify having inequality for the women?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3.
When she gets married, she is on the receiving end.
She receives a gift - she receives a dower or a marital gift, which is called as ‘Meher
And it is mentioned in the Qur’an in Surah Nisa, Ch.4 Verse No.4 which says, ‘Give to the woman in dower, a marital gift
For a marriage to solemnize in Islam, ‘Meher is compulsory.
But unfortunately in our Muslim society here, we just keep a nominal ‘Meher to satisfy the Qur’an, say 151 Rupees, or some people give 786 Rupees and they spend lakhs and lakhs of Rupees on the reception, on the decoration, on the flowers, on the lunch parties, on the dinner parties.
In Islam, there is no lower-limit, nor is there an upper limit for ‘Meher - But when a person can spend lakhs of Rupees on the reception, surely the ‘Meher should be much more.
There are various cultures which have crept into the Muslim societies, specially in the Indo-Pak area.
They give a small amount of ‘Meher and they expect the wife to give a fridge, to give a T.V set, they expect the wife to give an apartment, to give a car, etc., and a large sum of dowry, depending upon the status of the husband.
If he is a graduate, they may expect 1 lakh - If he is an engineer they may expect 3 lakhs - If he is a doctor they may expect 5 lakhs.
She receives a gift - she receives a dower or a marital gift, which is called as ‘Meher
And it is mentioned in the Qur’an in Surah Nisa, Ch.4 Verse No.4 which says, ‘Give to the woman in dower, a marital gift
For a marriage to solemnize in Islam, ‘Meher is compulsory.
But unfortunately in our Muslim society here, we just keep a nominal ‘Meher to satisfy the Qur’an, say 151 Rupees, or some people give 786 Rupees and they spend lakhs and lakhs of Rupees on the reception, on the decoration, on the flowers, on the lunch parties, on the dinner parties.
In Islam, there is no lower-limit, nor is there an upper limit for ‘Meher - But when a person can spend lakhs of Rupees on the reception, surely the ‘Meher should be much more.
There are various cultures which have crept into the Muslim societies, specially in the Indo-Pak area.
They give a small amount of ‘Meher and they expect the wife to give a fridge, to give a T.V set, they expect the wife to give an apartment, to give a car, etc., and a large sum of dowry, depending upon the status of the husband.
If he is a graduate, they may expect 1 lakh - If he is an engineer they may expect 3 lakhs - If he is a doctor they may expect 5 lakhs.
This is just another example of inequality. Your logic seems to be that if both men and women have unequal rights then they somehow balance out.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4.
If a Woman works, which she does not have to - whatever earning she gets, it is absolutely her property.
She need not spend on the household - if she wants to spend it is her free will.
Irrespective how rich the wife is, it is the duty of the husband to give lodging, boarding, clothing and look after the financial aspects of the wife.
In case of divorce or if a wife gets widowed, she is given financial support for the period of ‘Iddah - and if she has children, she is also given child support
She need not spend on the household - if she wants to spend it is her free will.
Irrespective how rich the wife is, it is the duty of the husband to give lodging, boarding, clothing and look after the financial aspects of the wife.
In case of divorce or if a wife gets widowed, she is given financial support for the period of ‘Iddah - and if she has children, she is also given child support
This is just more of the same. What is the reasoning behind this anyway? Why are women incapable of handling their own financial problems?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5.
Islam gave the right to the women to inherit, centuries ago.
If you read the Qur’an - in several verses, in Surah Nisa, in Surah Baqarah and in Surah Maidah, it is mentioned that a woman, irrespective she is a wife or she is a mother, or a sister, or a daughter, she has a right to inherit. And it has been fixed by God Almighty in the Qur’an.
If you read the Qur’an - in several verses, in Surah Nisa, in Surah Baqarah and in Surah Maidah, it is mentioned that a woman, irrespective she is a wife or she is a mother, or a sister, or a daughter, she has a right to inherit. And it has been fixed by God Almighty in the Qur’an.
It should be now clear that whose morals excel whose.
Before I conclude, I’d like to give an example.
Islam believes in equality between men and women - Equality does not mean identicality.
Suppose in a classroom 2 students, student ‘A and ‘B during an examination both come out first - Both secure 80% marks - 80 out of 100.
When you analyze the question paper, the question paper has 10 different questions, each carrying 10 marks.
In question 1 student ‘A got 9 out of 10, and student ‘B got 7 out of 10 - So in question 1 student ‘A was higher than student ‘B
In question 2, student ‘A got 7 out of 10 and student ‘B got 9 out of 10 - Student ‘B was higher than student ‘A in question number 2.
In question 3 both of them got 8 out of 10, both were equal.
So when we add up the marks of all the ten questions, both student ‘A and ‘B got 80 out of 100.
So in short, student ‘A and student ‘B are over all equal.
In some questions ‘A is higher than ‘B in some questions ‘B is higher than ‘A in others both are equal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not a very good analogy. You could use the same argument for giving different races different rights.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the same fashion, taking the example that since God has given man more strength - Suppose a thief enters the house will you tell, ‘I believe in women’s rights - I believe in women’s rights - will you tell your mother, your sister and your daughter, to go and fight the thief?
No, but natural you’ll fight him - If required they may interfere - Under normal circumstances since God has given you more physical strength, you have to go and tackle the thief.
So here, in physical strength, man is one degree higher than the woman<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is more of an appeal to tradition than evidence. The tradition being that the man is supposed to be strong and tough while the woman is supposed to be frail and fragile.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let us take another example where it comes to respecting the parents - The children are supposed to respect the mother 3 times more than the father (as mentioned earlier).
Here the women have one degree higher than the men - Over all both equal
So Islam believes in equality, not identically - Men and women are over all equal in Islam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nearly the same thing was said about white and black people in the United States when we still had segregation laws. I implore you to think of an argument that cannot also be used in the justification of unequal rights of people of different races. The reason I keep reiterating this point is because I have yet to see any difference between the justifications you are giving and the justifications that could be given for racism.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This was in brief, the highlights, of ‘the Women’s Rights in Islam
After this what the Muslim society did is different - Many of the Muslim societies did not give the women their rights and they deviated away from the Qur’an and the Sunnah.
The Western society is largely responsible for this - because of the Western societies, many Muslim societies have become over protective, over precautions and have gone to one extreme and deviated away from the Qur’an and the Sunnah.
On the other extreme, some of the Muslim societies turned to the Western culture, and followed their culture.
I want to tell the Western society that if you analyze the women’s rights in Islam according to the Qur’an and the Sunnah - you will realize it is modernizing and not outdated.
Demanding dowry from the wife, directly or indirectly is prohibited in Islam.
If the parents of the girl give the girl something out of their own free will, it is accepted - But demanding or forcing directly or indirectly, it is prohibited in Islam.
Slaves in Islam have been given equal rights it's not that they are forced or treated harshly.
You yourself said that women are not mentally or in any other case deficient(which is true)
than it means that womanhood can determine whats better for them.
That is why they find themselves more secure by converting into Islam.
According to "The Almanac Book of Facts", the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is an appeal to popularity and it is a logical fallacy.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In a recent poll in the (US), 100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam, Why?
It is Clear why Christians are converting.
1. Christian Scientists are declaring the Koran is from God. Visit Here for Christian and atheist Scientists who convert to Islam and why: <a href="http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch13.html" target="_blank">http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library...s-say/ch13.html</a>
2. The Christian Bishops and Priests are admitting the Bible has tensions. <a href="http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch2.1.html" target="_blank">http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library...-say/ch2.1.html</a>
3. Jesus is a Muslim: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html</a>
The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ?
Perhaps they realize their Soul is worth the Factual Research.
1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original
Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden
tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it
was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}
2. The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a
loss" {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur'an says both
are an Equal Blessing { Qur'an 42:49}
3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in
church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur'an says
Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}
4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as
an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The
Koran does Not have Biblical double standards
{ Qur'an 30:21}
5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not
Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men
do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this
male greediness { Qur'an 4:22} and God Protects
All.
6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3}
In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only
under certain situations (with the Wife's
permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One
Wife{ Qur'an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman
the Right to Choose who to Marry.
7. "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not
pledged to be married and rapes her and they are
discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty
shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he
has violated her. He can never divorce her as long
as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}
One must ask a simple question here, who is
really punished, the man who raped the woman or
the woman who was raped? According to the
Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life
with the man who Raped You.
The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book
86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:" It is
essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the
marriage)".
Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the
Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?
8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in
Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the
chance of [censored], (God Forbid), see statistic link
below.
9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a
100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave
Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.
10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them
the human right to reach for the sky. There have been
Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries,
but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the
men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming
Presidents in predominately Christian countries,
while the Muslim countries have voted for and
elected Female Presidents.
Sorry to keep you waiting but after seeing people posting something very offensive about me I had to reply earlier even though I have an exam tomorrow. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->This is hardly relevant to the topic of equal rights at all. Just because Islam is the lesser of two evils doesn't make its moral standards right.
A great deal of your argument appears to be copied and pasted from somewhere else (in fact I just checked and it is <a href="http://www.themuslimwoman.com/WhySoManyWomenConverting.htm" target="_blank">link</a>). I don't know what you found so offensive about what was posted about you but it would be a good idea to think for yourself instead of letting others think for you. Why didn't you construct your own argument instead of copying the ideas of someone else?
Edit:
The more I look the more I'm finding your argument is just plagiarism. It appears to be almost entirely plagiarism. It is rather dishonest to portray someone else's work as your own and not give any credit to the author of that work.
<!--quoteo(post=3703136:date=Jun 9 2011, 09:37 PM:name=Magmorph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Magmorph @ Jun 9 2011, 09:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3703136"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3702407:date=Jun 9 2011, 04:37 AM:name=bsfmtl123)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bsfmtl123 @ Jun 9 2011, 04:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3702407"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So the thing you are trying to say is that all Human beings have different traits regardless of their gender.........and in the present era I agree with you that females have shown capabilities like those of males................so does this mean Quran does not adhere equal rights to them.
Islam never states that women and men are not morally equal,the inequality lies in their physical differences.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said before, there are physical differences between black and white people. There are physical differences between every race. Why would we not give everyone equal opportunities just because of their physical state?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This Verse:
So why are there two witnesses of women equal to one man in financial transactions?
In an Islamic Society the women are the masters of household and the man is the one who earns(this does not mean that Islam prohibits women from working).......According to the laws of Islamic Society they(men and women) have same beliefs,same rights but different duties.If both men and women earn and there is no one to look after their kids then what would it result in.According to Science neglecting the child physically or emotionally can affect the child in a negative manner. Child neglect is a very common type of child abuse. Child abuse is more than physical abuse. Ignoring the needs of children, putting them in unsupervised or in dangerous situations, making the child feel worthless etc can affect the child and leads to the child feeling very low of themselves and may lead to loneliness in them. Many times this can affect the mental health or social development of the child and may even leave lifelong psychological scars. A child needs to feel loved and cherished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Men are just as capable as women at being stay at home "mothers". The father and mother are not the only people capable of looking after their child either. How is it a reasonable conclusion that if both parents are working the child will be left to be neglected?
You seem to be bending over backwards to include any scientific information as if it adds validity to your argument.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your talking about morals that have improved in the society past 100 or 50 years excel those of Islam or Muhammad(P.b.u.h)
Islam gave economical rights to the women 1,300 years before the West.
An adult Muslim woman can own, she can dispose or disown any of her property without consulting any one, irrespective whether she is married or she is single.
In 1870, it was the first time in England, that the West recognized the rights of the married woman, where she was allowed to own or dispose any of her property without consultation.
I do agree that the women were given their economical rights 1300 years ago - these are ancient rights - but the question is are they modernizing or outdated?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Islam had revolutionary moral ideas for its time but morals are constantly evolving. It would be rather ridiculous to follow the same moral standards of thousands of years ago.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So a women can't do what she wants with her body and is only allowed to wear what Islam finds acceptable.
The financial obligation shouldn't be on the man.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why does having inequality for the men justify having inequality for the women?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just another example of inequality. Your logic seems to be that if both men and women have unequal rights then they somehow balance out.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is just more of the same. What is the reasoning behind this anyway? Why are women incapable of handling their own financial problems?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5.
It should be now clear that whose morals excel whose.
Before I conclude, I’d like to give an example.
Islam believes in equality between men and women - Equality does not mean identicality.
Suppose in a classroom 2 students, student ‘A and ‘B during an examination both come out first - Both secure 80% marks - 80 out of 100.
When you analyze the question paper, the question paper has 10 different questions, each carrying 10 marks.
In question 1 student ‘A got 9 out of 10, and student ‘B got 7 out of 10 - So in question 1 student ‘A was higher than student ‘B
In question 2, student ‘A got 7 out of 10 and student ‘B got 9 out of 10 - Student ‘B was higher than student ‘A in question number 2.
In question 3 both of them got 8 out of 10, both were equal.
So when we add up the marks of all the ten questions, both student ‘A and ‘B got 80 out of 100.
So in short, student ‘A and student ‘B are over all equal.
In some questions ‘A is higher than ‘B in some questions ‘B is higher than ‘A in others both are equal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not a very good analogy. You could use the same argument for giving different races different rights.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the same fashion, taking the example that since God has given man more strength - Suppose a thief enters the house will you tell, ‘I believe in women’s rights - I believe in women’s rights - will you tell your mother, your sister and your daughter, to go and fight the thief?
No, but natural you’ll fight him - If required they may interfere - Under normal circumstances since God has given you more physical strength, you have to go and tackle the thief.
So here, in physical strength, man is one degree higher than the woman<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is more of an appeal to tradition than evidence. The tradition being that the man is supposed to be strong and tough while the woman is supposed to be frail and fragile.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let us take another example where it comes to respecting the parents - The children are supposed to respect the mother 3 times more than the father (as mentioned earlier).
Here the women have one degree higher than the men - Over all both equal
So Islam believes in equality, not identically - Men and women are over all equal in Islam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nearly the same thing was said about white and black people in the United States when we still had segregation laws. I implore you to think of an argument that cannot also be used in the justification of unequal rights of people of different races. The reason I keep reiterating this point is because I have yet to see any difference between the justifications you are giving and the justifications that could be given for racism.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This was in brief, the highlights, of ‘the Women’s Rights in Islam
After this what the Muslim society did is different - Many of the Muslim societies did not give the women their rights and they deviated away from the Qur’an and the Sunnah.
The Western society is largely responsible for this - because of the Western societies, many Muslim societies have become over protective, over precautions and have gone to one extreme and deviated away from the Qur’an and the Sunnah.
On the other extreme, some of the Muslim societies turned to the Western culture, and followed their culture.
I want to tell the Western society that if you analyze the women’s rights in Islam according to the Qur’an and the Sunnah - you will realize it is modernizing and not outdated.
Demanding dowry from the wife, directly or indirectly is prohibited in Islam.
If the parents of the girl give the girl something out of their own free will, it is accepted - But demanding or forcing directly or indirectly, it is prohibited in Islam.
Slaves in Islam have been given equal rights it's not that they are forced or treated harshly.
You yourself said that women are not mentally or in any other case deficient(which is true)
than it means that womanhood can determine whats better for them.
That is why they find themselves more secure by converting into Islam.
According to "The Almanac Book of Facts", the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is an appeal to popularity and it is a logical fallacy.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In a recent poll in the (US), 100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam, Why?
It is Clear why Christians are converting.
1. Christian Scientists are declaring the Koran is from God. Visit Here for Christian and atheist Scientists who convert to Islam and why: <a href="http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch13.html" target="_blank">http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library...s-say/ch13.html</a>
2. The Christian Bishops and Priests are admitting the Bible has tensions. <a href="http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch2.1.html" target="_blank">http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library...-say/ch2.1.html</a>
3. Jesus is a Muslim: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html</a>
The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ?
Perhaps they realize their Soul is worth the Factual Research.
1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original
Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden
tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it
was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}
2. The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a
loss" {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur'an says both
are an Equal Blessing { Qur'an 42:49}
3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in
church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur'an says
Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}
4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as
an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The
Koran does Not have Biblical double standards
{ Qur'an 30:21}
5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not
Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men
do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this
male greediness { Qur'an 4:22} and God Protects
All.
6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3}
In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only
under certain situations (with the Wife's
permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One
Wife{ Qur'an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman
the Right to Choose who to Marry.
7. "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not
pledged to be married and rapes her and they are
discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty
shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he
has violated her. He can never divorce her as long
as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}
One must ask a simple question here, who is
really punished, the man who raped the woman or
the woman who was raped? According to the
Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life
with the man who Raped You.
The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book
86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:" It is
essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the
marriage)".
Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the
Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?
8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in
Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the
chance of [censored], (God Forbid), see statistic link
below.
9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a
100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave
Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.
10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them
the human right to reach for the sky. There have been
Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries,
but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the
men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming
Presidents in predominately Christian countries,
while the Muslim countries have voted for and
elected Female Presidents.
Sorry to keep you waiting but after seeing people posting something very offensive about me I had to reply earlier even though I have an exam tomorrow. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is hardly relevant to the topic of equal rights at all. Just because Islam is the lesser of two evils doesn't make its moral standards right.
A great deal of your argument appears to be copied and pasted from somewhere else (in fact I just checked and it is <a href="http://www.themuslimwoman.com/WhySoManyWomenConverting.htm" target="_blank">link</a>). I don't know what you found so offensive about what was posted about you but it would be a good idea to think for yourself instead of letting others think for you. Why didn't you construct your own argument instead of copying the ideas of someone else?
Edit:
The more I look the more I'm finding your argument is just plagiarism. It appears to be almost entirely plagiarism. It is rather dishonest to portray someone else's work as your own and not give any credit to the author of that work.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please stop being dishonest............I never claimed this work as mine.........To prove my facts I need information such as the information posted about the increase in Islam ....................how would I know what is the increase in Muslims in America.........Wake up! i don't live in America i live in Pakistan ......you yourself are being ignorant and just know how to criticize others.
Yes the information i posted was 80% copied from Zakir Naik's notes or explanation on the rights of women.
I from the start have supported Zakir Naik's views that i even posted some of his videos which believe u didn't even bother to watch.
By the way i never meant that Islam gives opportunities according to physical abilities but according to their morals and role in the society.
Roles are drafted out according to Shariah not physical or any other difference between people.In Prophet Muhamad's(P.b.u.h) last sermon he stated that there is no difference between Arab and Non-Arab or White and Black.
Well you don't know what is the difference between a child living in a Muslim Family and a non-Muslim or any other Family.
I know I have seen the difference.DON'T COMMENT ON IT UNLESS YOU HAVE ENOUGH KNOWLEDGE ABOUT Muslim families.
I add scientific facts because of you guys.....who would not certainly believe in anything I say.
I find ISLAMIC principals and teachings still too much relevant today...............if everyone follow Islam believe me the world is going to be thousand times better.
The reason for copying 80% of the information from somewhere else is because I was in a hurry.......having Exams .
I apologize for that.
Hope after reading this you will feel a bit more accurate next time <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
Islam never states that women and men are not morally equal,the inequality lies in their physical differences.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said before, there are physical differences between black and white people. There are physical differences between every race. Why would we not give everyone equal opportunities just because of their physical state?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This Verse:
Noble Verse 2:282 "O ye who believe! When ye deal with each other, in transactions involving future obligations in a fixed period of time, reduce them to writing; let a scribe write down faithfully as between the parties: let not the scribe refuse to write: as God Has taught him, so let him write. Let him who incurs the liability dictate, but let him fear His Lord God, and not diminish aught of what he owes. If they party liable is mentally deficient, or weak, or unable Himself to dictate, let his guardian dictate faithfully, and get two witnesses, out of your own men, and if there are not two men, then a man and two women, such as ye choose, for witnesses, so that if one of them errs, the other can remind her. The witnesses should not refuse when they are called on (For evidence). Disdain not to reduce to writing (your contract) for a future period, whether it be small or big: it is juster in the sight of God, More suitable as evidence, and more convenient to prevent doubts among yourselves but if it be a transaction which ye carry out on the spot among yourselves, there is no blame on you if ye reduce it not to writing. But take witness whenever ye make a commercial contract; and let neither scribe nor witness suffer harm. If ye do (such harm), it would be wickedness in you. So fear God; For it is Good that teaches you. And God is well acquainted with all things. If ye are on a journey, and cannot find a scribe, a pledge with possession (may serve the purpose). And if one of you deposits a thing on trust with another, let the trustee (faithfully) discharge his trust, and let him Fear his Lord conceal not evidence; for whoever conceals it, – his heart is tainted with sin. And God knoweth all that ye do."
So why are there two witnesses of women equal to one man in financial transactions?
In an Islamic Society the women are the masters of household and the man is the one who earns(this does not mean that Islam prohibits women from working).......According to the laws of Islamic Society they(men and women) have same beliefs,same rights but different duties.If both men and women earn and there is no one to look after their kids then what would it result in.According to Science neglecting the child physically or emotionally can affect the child in a negative manner. Child neglect is a very common type of child abuse. Child abuse is more than physical abuse. Ignoring the needs of children, putting them in unsupervised or in dangerous situations, making the child feel worthless etc can affect the child and leads to the child feeling very low of themselves and may lead to loneliness in them. Many times this can affect the mental health or social development of the child and may even leave lifelong psychological scars. A child needs to feel loved and cherished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Men are just as capable as women at being stay at home "mothers". The father and mother are not the only people capable of looking after their child either. How is it a reasonable conclusion that if both parents are working the child will be left to be neglected?
You seem to be bending over backwards to include any scientific information as if it adds validity to your argument.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your talking about morals that have improved in the society past 100 or 50 years excel those of Islam or Muhammad(P.b.u.h)
Islam gave economical rights to the women 1,300 years before the West.
An adult Muslim woman can own, she can dispose or disown any of her property without consulting any one, irrespective whether she is married or she is single.
In 1870, it was the first time in England, that the West recognized the rights of the married woman, where she was allowed to own or dispose any of her property without consultation.
I do agree that the women were given their economical rights 1300 years ago - these are ancient rights - but the question is are they modernizing or outdated?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Islam had revolutionary moral ideas for its time but morals are constantly evolving. It would be rather ridiculous to follow the same moral standards of thousands of years ago.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1.
A women in Islam, if she wishes to work she can work - There is no text in the Qur’an or the authentic Hadith which prevents or makes it prohibited for a woman to do any work, as long as it is not unlawful, as long as it is within the preview of the Islamic Shariah, as long as she maintains her Islamic dress code.
But natural, she cannot take up jobs, which exhibit her beauty and body - Like for example, modeling and film acting, and such kind of jobs.
Many of the professions and jobs which are prohibited for the woman are also prohibited for the man, for example serving alcohol, working in gambling dens, doing any unethical or dishonest business. All these jobs are prohibited for both men and women.
A true Islamic society requires women to take up profession such as doctors.
We do require female Gynecologists, we do require female nurses, we do require female teachers.
But, a woman in Islam has got no financial obligations - The financial obligation is laid on the shoulders of the man in the family - Therefore she need not work for her livelihood.
But in genuine cases, where there are financial crisis in which both the ends do not meet, she has the option of working.
Here too, no one can force her to work - She works out of her own, absolute free will.
But natural, she cannot take up jobs, which exhibit her beauty and body - Like for example, modeling and film acting, and such kind of jobs.
Many of the professions and jobs which are prohibited for the woman are also prohibited for the man, for example serving alcohol, working in gambling dens, doing any unethical or dishonest business. All these jobs are prohibited for both men and women.
A true Islamic society requires women to take up profession such as doctors.
We do require female Gynecologists, we do require female nurses, we do require female teachers.
But, a woman in Islam has got no financial obligations - The financial obligation is laid on the shoulders of the man in the family - Therefore she need not work for her livelihood.
But in genuine cases, where there are financial crisis in which both the ends do not meet, she has the option of working.
Here too, no one can force her to work - She works out of her own, absolute free will.
So a women can't do what she wants with her body and is only allowed to wear what Islam finds acceptable.
The financial obligation shouldn't be on the man.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2.
A woman in Islam has been given more financial security, as compared to the man.
As I told you earlier, the financial obligation is not put on her shoulder - It is put on the shoulder of the man in the family. It is the duty of the father or the brother, before she is married and the duty of the husband or the son, after she is married to look after her lodging, boarding, clothing and financial aspects of her.
As I told you earlier, the financial obligation is not put on her shoulder - It is put on the shoulder of the man in the family. It is the duty of the father or the brother, before she is married and the duty of the husband or the son, after she is married to look after her lodging, boarding, clothing and financial aspects of her.
Why does having inequality for the men justify having inequality for the women?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3.
When she gets married, she is on the receiving end.
She receives a gift - she receives a dower or a marital gift, which is called as ‘Meher
And it is mentioned in the Qur’an in Surah Nisa, Ch.4 Verse No.4 which says, ‘Give to the woman in dower, a marital gift
For a marriage to solemnize in Islam, ‘Meher is compulsory.
But unfortunately in our Muslim society here, we just keep a nominal ‘Meher to satisfy the Qur’an, say 151 Rupees, or some people give 786 Rupees and they spend lakhs and lakhs of Rupees on the reception, on the decoration, on the flowers, on the lunch parties, on the dinner parties.
In Islam, there is no lower-limit, nor is there an upper limit for ‘Meher - But when a person can spend lakhs of Rupees on the reception, surely the ‘Meher should be much more.
There are various cultures which have crept into the Muslim societies, specially in the Indo-Pak area.
They give a small amount of ‘Meher and they expect the wife to give a fridge, to give a T.V set, they expect the wife to give an apartment, to give a car, etc., and a large sum of dowry, depending upon the status of the husband.
If he is a graduate, they may expect 1 lakh - If he is an engineer they may expect 3 lakhs - If he is a doctor they may expect 5 lakhs.
She receives a gift - she receives a dower or a marital gift, which is called as ‘Meher
And it is mentioned in the Qur’an in Surah Nisa, Ch.4 Verse No.4 which says, ‘Give to the woman in dower, a marital gift
For a marriage to solemnize in Islam, ‘Meher is compulsory.
But unfortunately in our Muslim society here, we just keep a nominal ‘Meher to satisfy the Qur’an, say 151 Rupees, or some people give 786 Rupees and they spend lakhs and lakhs of Rupees on the reception, on the decoration, on the flowers, on the lunch parties, on the dinner parties.
In Islam, there is no lower-limit, nor is there an upper limit for ‘Meher - But when a person can spend lakhs of Rupees on the reception, surely the ‘Meher should be much more.
There are various cultures which have crept into the Muslim societies, specially in the Indo-Pak area.
They give a small amount of ‘Meher and they expect the wife to give a fridge, to give a T.V set, they expect the wife to give an apartment, to give a car, etc., and a large sum of dowry, depending upon the status of the husband.
If he is a graduate, they may expect 1 lakh - If he is an engineer they may expect 3 lakhs - If he is a doctor they may expect 5 lakhs.
This is just another example of inequality. Your logic seems to be that if both men and women have unequal rights then they somehow balance out.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4.
If a Woman works, which she does not have to - whatever earning she gets, it is absolutely her property.
She need not spend on the household - if she wants to spend it is her free will.
Irrespective how rich the wife is, it is the duty of the husband to give lodging, boarding, clothing and look after the financial aspects of the wife.
In case of divorce or if a wife gets widowed, she is given financial support for the period of ‘Iddah - and if she has children, she is also given child support
She need not spend on the household - if she wants to spend it is her free will.
Irrespective how rich the wife is, it is the duty of the husband to give lodging, boarding, clothing and look after the financial aspects of the wife.
In case of divorce or if a wife gets widowed, she is given financial support for the period of ‘Iddah - and if she has children, she is also given child support
This is just more of the same. What is the reasoning behind this anyway? Why are women incapable of handling their own financial problems?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5.
Islam gave the right to the women to inherit, centuries ago.
If you read the Qur’an - in several verses, in Surah Nisa, in Surah Baqarah and in Surah Maidah, it is mentioned that a woman, irrespective she is a wife or she is a mother, or a sister, or a daughter, she has a right to inherit. And it has been fixed by God Almighty in the Qur’an.
If you read the Qur’an - in several verses, in Surah Nisa, in Surah Baqarah and in Surah Maidah, it is mentioned that a woman, irrespective she is a wife or she is a mother, or a sister, or a daughter, she has a right to inherit. And it has been fixed by God Almighty in the Qur’an.
It should be now clear that whose morals excel whose.
Before I conclude, I’d like to give an example.
Islam believes in equality between men and women - Equality does not mean identicality.
Suppose in a classroom 2 students, student ‘A and ‘B during an examination both come out first - Both secure 80% marks - 80 out of 100.
When you analyze the question paper, the question paper has 10 different questions, each carrying 10 marks.
In question 1 student ‘A got 9 out of 10, and student ‘B got 7 out of 10 - So in question 1 student ‘A was higher than student ‘B
In question 2, student ‘A got 7 out of 10 and student ‘B got 9 out of 10 - Student ‘B was higher than student ‘A in question number 2.
In question 3 both of them got 8 out of 10, both were equal.
So when we add up the marks of all the ten questions, both student ‘A and ‘B got 80 out of 100.
So in short, student ‘A and student ‘B are over all equal.
In some questions ‘A is higher than ‘B in some questions ‘B is higher than ‘A in others both are equal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not a very good analogy. You could use the same argument for giving different races different rights.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the same fashion, taking the example that since God has given man more strength - Suppose a thief enters the house will you tell, ‘I believe in women’s rights - I believe in women’s rights - will you tell your mother, your sister and your daughter, to go and fight the thief?
No, but natural you’ll fight him - If required they may interfere - Under normal circumstances since God has given you more physical strength, you have to go and tackle the thief.
So here, in physical strength, man is one degree higher than the woman<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is more of an appeal to tradition than evidence. The tradition being that the man is supposed to be strong and tough while the woman is supposed to be frail and fragile.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let us take another example where it comes to respecting the parents - The children are supposed to respect the mother 3 times more than the father (as mentioned earlier).
Here the women have one degree higher than the men - Over all both equal
So Islam believes in equality, not identically - Men and women are over all equal in Islam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nearly the same thing was said about white and black people in the United States when we still had segregation laws. I implore you to think of an argument that cannot also be used in the justification of unequal rights of people of different races. The reason I keep reiterating this point is because I have yet to see any difference between the justifications you are giving and the justifications that could be given for racism.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This was in brief, the highlights, of ‘the Women’s Rights in Islam
After this what the Muslim society did is different - Many of the Muslim societies did not give the women their rights and they deviated away from the Qur’an and the Sunnah.
The Western society is largely responsible for this - because of the Western societies, many Muslim societies have become over protective, over precautions and have gone to one extreme and deviated away from the Qur’an and the Sunnah.
On the other extreme, some of the Muslim societies turned to the Western culture, and followed their culture.
I want to tell the Western society that if you analyze the women’s rights in Islam according to the Qur’an and the Sunnah - you will realize it is modernizing and not outdated.
Demanding dowry from the wife, directly or indirectly is prohibited in Islam.
If the parents of the girl give the girl something out of their own free will, it is accepted - But demanding or forcing directly or indirectly, it is prohibited in Islam.
Slaves in Islam have been given equal rights it's not that they are forced or treated harshly.
You yourself said that women are not mentally or in any other case deficient(which is true)
than it means that womanhood can determine whats better for them.
That is why they find themselves more secure by converting into Islam.
According to "The Almanac Book of Facts", the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is an appeal to popularity and it is a logical fallacy.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In a recent poll in the (US), 100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam, Why?
It is Clear why Christians are converting.
1. Christian Scientists are declaring the Koran is from God. Visit Here for Christian and atheist Scientists who convert to Islam and why: <a href="http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch13.html" target="_blank">http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library...s-say/ch13.html</a>
2. The Christian Bishops and Priests are admitting the Bible has tensions. <a href="http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch2.1.html" target="_blank">http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library...-say/ch2.1.html</a>
3. Jesus is a Muslim: <a href="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/jam.html</a>
The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ?
Perhaps they realize their Soul is worth the Factual Research.
1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original
Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden
tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it
was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}
2. The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a
loss" {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur'an says both
are an Equal Blessing { Qur'an 42:49}
3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in
church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur'an says
Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}
4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as
an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The
Koran does Not have Biblical double standards
{ Qur'an 30:21}
5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not
Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men
do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this
male greediness { Qur'an 4:22} and God Protects
All.
6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3}
In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only
under certain situations (with the Wife's
permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One
Wife{ Qur'an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman
the Right to Choose who to Marry.
7. "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not
pledged to be married and rapes her and they are
discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty
shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he
has violated her. He can never divorce her as long
as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}
One must ask a simple question here, who is
really punished, the man who raped the woman or
the woman who was raped? According to the
Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life
with the man who Raped You.
The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book
86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:" It is
essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the
marriage)".
Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the
Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?
8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in
Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the
chance of [censored], (God Forbid), see statistic link
below.
9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a
100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave
Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.
10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them
the human right to reach for the sky. There have been
Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries,
but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the
men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming
Presidents in predominately Christian countries,
while the Muslim countries have voted for and
elected Female Presidents.
Sorry to keep you waiting but after seeing people posting something very offensive about me I had to reply earlier even though I have an exam tomorrow. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->This is hardly relevant to the topic of equal rights at all. Just because Islam is the lesser of two evils doesn't make its moral standards right.
A great deal of your argument appears to be copied and pasted from somewhere else (in fact I just checked and it is <a href="http://www.themuslimwoman.com/WhySoManyWomenConverting.htm" target="_blank">link</a>). I don't know what you found so offensive about what was posted about you but it would be a good idea to think for yourself instead of letting others think for you. Why didn't you construct your own argument instead of copying the ideas of someone else?
Edit:
The more I look the more I'm finding your argument is just plagiarism. It appears to be almost entirely plagiarism. It is rather dishonest to portray someone else's work as your own and not give any credit to the author of that work.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please stop being dishonest............I never claimed this work as mine.........To prove my facts I need information such as the information posted about the increase in Islam ....................how would I know what is the increase in Muslims in America.........Wake up! i don't live in America i live in Pakistan ......you yourself are being ignorant and just know how to criticize others.
Yes the information i posted was 80% copied from Zakir Naik's notes or explanation on the rights of women.
I from the start have supported Zakir Naik's views that i even posted some of his videos which believe u didn't even bother to watch.
By the way i never meant that Islam gives opportunities according to physical abilities but according to their morals and role in the society.
Roles are drafted out according to Shariah not physical or any other difference between people.In Prophet Muhamad's(P.b.u.h) last sermon he stated that there is no difference between Arab and Non-Arab or White and Black.
Well you don't know what is the difference between a child living in a Muslim Family and a non-Muslim or any other Family.
I know I have seen the difference.DON'T COMMENT ON IT UNLESS YOU HAVE ENOUGH KNOWLEDGE ABOUT Muslim families.
I add scientific facts because of you guys.....who would not certainly believe in anything I say.
I find ISLAMIC principals and teachings still too much relevant today...............if everyone follow Islam believe me the world is going to be thousand times better.
The reason for copying 80% of the information from somewhere else is because I was in a hurry.......having Exams .
I apologize for that.
Hope after reading this you will feel a bit more accurate next time <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
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See you all 2051 When we're all alive and well! Er hopefully anyway...y'know cancer and smoke...
<!--quoteo(post=3702407:date=Jun 9 2011, 11:37 AM:name=bsfmtl123)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bsfmtl123 @ Jun 9 2011, 11:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3702407"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So the thing you are trying to say is that all Human beings have different traits regardless of their gender.........and in the present era I agree with you that females have shown capabilities like those of males................so does this mean Quran does not adhere equal rights to them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, the things I'm saying are the same things I've been saying all along. That Islam does not afford equal rights to women and that it does not come from a divine and perfect being. You may believe that in the present era women have shown capabilities similar to men but it has been true throughout history. Look at the history of China for good examples, and look at it through actual history books rather than through Islamically slanted ones. And yes, the Qu'ran does not adhere equal rights to them. I ask again, are women allowed to have multiple husbands? We both know the answer is no. Therefore Islam does not adhere to equal rights to both sexes. You can throw as many excuses and reasons as you'd like but it still doesn't stop it from being an inequal right.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So why are there two witnesses of women equal to one man in financial transactions?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've shown you why there are two women witnesses. It's because Mohammed saw them as inferior as shown by statements he made.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In an Islamic Society the women are the masters of household and the man is the one who earns(this does not mean that Islam prohibits women from working).......According to the laws of Islamic Society they(men and women) have same beliefs,same rights but different duties.If both men and women earn and there is no one to look after their kids then what would it result in.According to Science neglecting the child physically or emotionally can affect the child in a negative manner. Child neglect is a very common type of child abuse. Child abuse is more than physical abuse. Ignoring the needs of children, putting them in unsupervised or in dangerous situations, making the child feel worthless etc can affect the child and leads to the child feeling very low of themselves and may lead to loneliness in them. Many times this can affect the mental health or social development of the child and may even leave lifelong psychological scars. A child needs to feel loved and cherished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll agree with you about children needing love and attention when they're younger or psychological problems may develop. I've read studies on it. However, it does not need to be the woman who looks after them. A man is perfectly capable of looking after a child. The husband and wife should both be the masters of the househould, the whole idea of a parntership is to share the load. If the woman desires to stay at home then that's fair enough but she should never be taught or told that it's her duty. It's both parties duty.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Islam gave economical rights to the women 1,300 years before the West.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When did I say any different? I've said several times that Islam was ahead of it's time when compared to the West. However, this isn't 1300 hundred years ago, this is now. Also you're making the same mistake that all followers of Abrahamic religions make. You believe that any society that doesn't conform to the Abrahamic religion is uncivilised. Search China's history. Women had the same kind of rights that Islam afforded long before Islam came along. Women were highly respected in Chinese society, enough to become Emperesses and develop highly respected fighting styles. Also, btw, women had financial rights in Arabia before Islam came along. Mohammed was looked after by his first wife who was a very successful business woman.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But natural, she cannot take up jobs, which exhibit her beauty and body - Like for example, modeling and film acting, and such kind of jobs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now explain to me why a woman shouldn't be able to take a job where she exhibits her beauty, and do this without having to resort to "Because Islam says" or "Because God says". Why shouldn't a woman be able to decide what she does with her beauty?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It should be now clear that whose morals excel whose.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is. It is ours. Our morals far excel those of Islam. Shall I throw out some more examples? What does Islam say about what should happen to homosexuals? Does Islam allow a man to marry a young girl and consumate that marriage? Does Islam allow criticism of Islam? Does Islam allow criticism of Mohammed? What does Islam say should happen to those who leave Islam? What does Islam say about non-believers? In a Khalifa are non-Muslims allowed to become involved in government? What is the punishment for theft in Islam? Does Islam allow slavery? Does Islam allow the capture of women as war booty? What does Islam say should happen to those who have pre-marital sex? What does Islam say should happen to adulterers?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Islam believes in equality between men and women - Equality does not mean identicality.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When it comes to rights between men and women, or people of different ethnic origins, equality means identicality. If rights are not identical for all then they are not equal - they are biased.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the same fashion, taking the example that since God has given man more strength - Suppose a thief enters the house will you tell, ‘I believe in women’s rights - I believe in women’s rights - will you tell your mother, your sister and your daughter, to go and fight the thief?
No, but natural you’ll fight him - If required they may interfere - Under normal circumstances since God has given you more physical strength, you have to go and tackle the thief.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If my sister, wife or daughter wanted to fight off the thief then they'd be more than welcome to. My sister has taken on plenty of men in fights, including a couple of idiot youngsters who decided to pull a knife on her. What you're doing here is throwing out and old outdated stereotype. Look up a fighting art called Wing Chun and then come back and tell me that women are physically incapable.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let us take another example where it comes to respecting the parents - The children are supposed to respect the mother 3 times more than the father (as mentioned earlier).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, each parent should get the amount of respect due to them according to how well they treat their children. A terrible parent should get little respect and a great parent should get utmost respect.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So Islam believes in equality, not identically - Men and women are over all equal in Islam<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, Islam believes in gender assigned roles - nothing more nothing less.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I want to tell the Western society that if you analyze the women’s rights in Islam according to the Qur’an and the Sunnah - you will realize it is modernizing and not outdated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it was modern - then it fell behind and became outdated.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Slaves in Islam have been given equal rights it's not that they are forced or treated harshly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So it's alright to own another human being as long as you don't treat them cruelly? In what way is owning a human being like a commodity moral? Would you be saying the same thing if it was your mother or sister sold like a Nintendo DS?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You yourself said that women are not mentally or in any other case deficient(which is true)
than it means that womanhood can determine whats better for them.
That is why they find themselves more secure by converting into Islam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it's not womanhood than can determine what's better for the woman, it's the woman herself. If she finds herself identifying with Islam then she's free to become a Muslim. Now I ask you this, if a Muslim woman found herself identifying with Buddhism would she be free to become a Buddhist?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->According to "The Almanac Book of Facts", the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.
In a recent poll in the (US), 100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam, Why?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What Zakir Naik has forgotten to mention is that 2 out of 4 of those women are converting because of marriage, and that around 30-40% of those women apostise within 3 years.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because Muslim women are not allowed to date non-Muslim men but Muslim men are allowed to date outside their religion. When getting married those non-Muslim women are encouraged to convert to Islam. That's the reason why the numbers are higher for women.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*snipped out a load of nonsense from another Abrahamic religion for space<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What does any of that have to do with me? I'm not a Christian. I have just as many criticisms about Christianity as I do Islam.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry to keep you waiting but after seeing people posting something very offensive about me I had to reply earlier even though I have an exam tomorrow. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I told you to take your time, I wasn't bothered. However nobody said anything offensive about you. If you found it offensive then it was your own interperetation of the words.
No, the things I'm saying are the same things I've been saying all along. That Islam does not afford equal rights to women and that it does not come from a divine and perfect being. You may believe that in the present era women have shown capabilities similar to men but it has been true throughout history. Look at the history of China for good examples, and look at it through actual history books rather than through Islamically slanted ones. And yes, the Qu'ran does not adhere equal rights to them. I ask again, are women allowed to have multiple husbands? We both know the answer is no. Therefore Islam does not adhere to equal rights to both sexes. You can throw as many excuses and reasons as you'd like but it still doesn't stop it from being an inequal right.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So why are there two witnesses of women equal to one man in financial transactions?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've shown you why there are two women witnesses. It's because Mohammed saw them as inferior as shown by statements he made.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In an Islamic Society the women are the masters of household and the man is the one who earns(this does not mean that Islam prohibits women from working).......According to the laws of Islamic Society they(men and women) have same beliefs,same rights but different duties.If both men and women earn and there is no one to look after their kids then what would it result in.According to Science neglecting the child physically or emotionally can affect the child in a negative manner. Child neglect is a very common type of child abuse. Child abuse is more than physical abuse. Ignoring the needs of children, putting them in unsupervised or in dangerous situations, making the child feel worthless etc can affect the child and leads to the child feeling very low of themselves and may lead to loneliness in them. Many times this can affect the mental health or social development of the child and may even leave lifelong psychological scars. A child needs to feel loved and cherished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll agree with you about children needing love and attention when they're younger or psychological problems may develop. I've read studies on it. However, it does not need to be the woman who looks after them. A man is perfectly capable of looking after a child. The husband and wife should both be the masters of the househould, the whole idea of a parntership is to share the load. If the woman desires to stay at home then that's fair enough but she should never be taught or told that it's her duty. It's both parties duty.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Islam gave economical rights to the women 1,300 years before the West.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When did I say any different? I've said several times that Islam was ahead of it's time when compared to the West. However, this isn't 1300 hundred years ago, this is now. Also you're making the same mistake that all followers of Abrahamic religions make. You believe that any society that doesn't conform to the Abrahamic religion is uncivilised. Search China's history. Women had the same kind of rights that Islam afforded long before Islam came along. Women were highly respected in Chinese society, enough to become Emperesses and develop highly respected fighting styles. Also, btw, women had financial rights in Arabia before Islam came along. Mohammed was looked after by his first wife who was a very successful business woman.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But natural, she cannot take up jobs, which exhibit her beauty and body - Like for example, modeling and film acting, and such kind of jobs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now explain to me why a woman shouldn't be able to take a job where she exhibits her beauty, and do this without having to resort to "Because Islam says" or "Because God says". Why shouldn't a woman be able to decide what she does with her beauty?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It should be now clear that whose morals excel whose.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is. It is ours. Our morals far excel those of Islam. Shall I throw out some more examples? What does Islam say about what should happen to homosexuals? Does Islam allow a man to marry a young girl and consumate that marriage? Does Islam allow criticism of Islam? Does Islam allow criticism of Mohammed? What does Islam say should happen to those who leave Islam? What does Islam say about non-believers? In a Khalifa are non-Muslims allowed to become involved in government? What is the punishment for theft in Islam? Does Islam allow slavery? Does Islam allow the capture of women as war booty? What does Islam say should happen to those who have pre-marital sex? What does Islam say should happen to adulterers?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Islam believes in equality between men and women - Equality does not mean identicality.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When it comes to rights between men and women, or people of different ethnic origins, equality means identicality. If rights are not identical for all then they are not equal - they are biased.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the same fashion, taking the example that since God has given man more strength - Suppose a thief enters the house will you tell, ‘I believe in women’s rights - I believe in women’s rights - will you tell your mother, your sister and your daughter, to go and fight the thief?
No, but natural you’ll fight him - If required they may interfere - Under normal circumstances since God has given you more physical strength, you have to go and tackle the thief.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If my sister, wife or daughter wanted to fight off the thief then they'd be more than welcome to. My sister has taken on plenty of men in fights, including a couple of idiot youngsters who decided to pull a knife on her. What you're doing here is throwing out and old outdated stereotype. Look up a fighting art called Wing Chun and then come back and tell me that women are physically incapable.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let us take another example where it comes to respecting the parents - The children are supposed to respect the mother 3 times more than the father (as mentioned earlier).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, each parent should get the amount of respect due to them according to how well they treat their children. A terrible parent should get little respect and a great parent should get utmost respect.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So Islam believes in equality, not identically - Men and women are over all equal in Islam<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, Islam believes in gender assigned roles - nothing more nothing less.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I want to tell the Western society that if you analyze the women’s rights in Islam according to the Qur’an and the Sunnah - you will realize it is modernizing and not outdated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it was modern - then it fell behind and became outdated.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Slaves in Islam have been given equal rights it's not that they are forced or treated harshly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So it's alright to own another human being as long as you don't treat them cruelly? In what way is owning a human being like a commodity moral? Would you be saying the same thing if it was your mother or sister sold like a Nintendo DS?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You yourself said that women are not mentally or in any other case deficient(which is true)
than it means that womanhood can determine whats better for them.
That is why they find themselves more secure by converting into Islam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it's not womanhood than can determine what's better for the woman, it's the woman herself. If she finds herself identifying with Islam then she's free to become a Muslim. Now I ask you this, if a Muslim woman found herself identifying with Buddhism would she be free to become a Buddhist?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->According to "The Almanac Book of Facts", the population increased 137% within the past decade, Christianity increased 46%, while Islam increased 235%.
In a recent poll in the (US), 100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam, Why?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What Zakir Naik has forgotten to mention is that 2 out of 4 of those women are converting because of marriage, and that around 30-40% of those women apostise within 3 years.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because Muslim women are not allowed to date non-Muslim men but Muslim men are allowed to date outside their religion. When getting married those non-Muslim women are encouraged to convert to Islam. That's the reason why the numbers are higher for women.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*snipped out a load of nonsense from another Abrahamic religion for space<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What does any of that have to do with me? I'm not a Christian. I have just as many criticisms about Christianity as I do Islam.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry to keep you waiting but after seeing people posting something very offensive about me I had to reply earlier even though I have an exam tomorrow. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I told you to take your time, I wasn't bothered. However nobody said anything offensive about you. If you found it offensive then it was your own interperetation of the words.
aminemaster said:
It's a play on words and a propaganda technique. Muslim means "one who is in submission to God". So therefore Jesus was a Muslim, but he was also a Christian prophet.
edit : Also bsfmtl123, I think Magmorph raised some very valid points. To dismiss him as you did is rude and arrogant.
Is it weird that after reading this thread and discussion, I want to start a new religion called TrolleyDavism?
What did I say that was inaccurate?bsfmtl123 said:Please stop being dishonest............I never claimed this work as mine.........To prove my facts I need information such as the information posted about the increase in Islam ....................how would I know what is the increase in Muslims in America.........Wake up! i don't live in America i live in Pakistan ......you yourself are being ignorant and just know how to criticize others.
What did I say that was dishonest? You copied and pasted from web sites without citing the sources. I never said you claimed it as your own I said you portrayed it as your own. You could easily find the increase of Islam in America without copying and pasting a whole article about women in Islam. What am I being ignorant of?
Hope after reading this you will feel a bit more accurate next timeQUOTE said:
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The idea of a slave/servant is different here. They do what you ask them and they get clothing, food and a place to stay in exchange. It really isn't as bad as the slaves the US had. And the Qur'an teaches that a Muslim should free his slaves, although he can keep his servants.TrolleyDave said:
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They were doing forced work. They lived in bad conditions. They were whipped, weren't feed enough, had minimal clothing. They stayed in bad places. While a slave here is more of a servant, only permanent. And this whole arguments is going nowhere because I already said that the Qur'an tells Muslims to free their slaves.Magmorph said:
Pyrmon said:
D'oh, me and my twisted moral code. Of course owning some is perfectly fine so long as you give them food, clothing and lodging - what was I thinking. And what's this "in exchange" business? You do know that the idea of slaves in the Qu'ran comes from people (mostly women and children) captured and kept as "spoils of war". How is that an "in exchange" deal? Is it "In exchange for you life you can come and work for for me for nothing more than food, clothing and lodging"?
I'll leave you with this quote to ponder on :
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
Ancient/secret texts predicting present of future events? Specifically cataclysmic ones? During exactly our generation? How many damn times hasn't this happened already? It's been happening for countless generations.
Those that came true? Selectivity. The times they didn't aren't counted and those that are immediately get pointed at. Like let's say I make a prediction that "the winning lotto numbers will be 1,2,3,4,5,6". With so many runs over ages and ages eventually it WILL happen. Does this mean I had prediction power? Nope. Not to mention these texts are metaphorically interpreted in the way which best interprets current events. That too is a bias.
People also always tend to view the previous generations as more tame and their current one as the most corrupt. Viewing it as the height of evil, people get the feeling that "this is it". This time it's really gonna happen. It never does.
Every argument for such beliefs I've seen had some logical loophole or pitfall somewhere. Those few that didn't were basically saying obvious things such as "the sun will rise again after the night" or "the rain will eventually stop", referring to contexts of some issues of their time. What completes the mesmerizing effect of these predictions is that they're famous texts and to begin with have some supposed "power" so the slightest sensationalistic hint immediately gets taken as "fact" or "proof". I remain decisively unconvinced.
There's tons of these claims per generation, and now recently they've begun incorporating science, with ideas such as black holes colliding with earth in 2012 or some fluctiations of electromagnetic moon radiation interacting with the positrons in our thoughts on a frequency of alpha waves blah blah and whatever you want to add here to make it sound as scientific as possible, all fundamentally motivated to give credance to a claim, NOT to state an observed, true fact. All for the purpose of "appearing to know what they're talking about" and even taking up titles such as "doctor" or "professor".
Whenever I've taken a closer look at any of these claims aswell as what supports them, they fell apart. I've hardly any reason to care.
Those that came true? Selectivity. The times they didn't aren't counted and those that are immediately get pointed at. Like let's say I make a prediction that "the winning lotto numbers will be 1,2,3,4,5,6". With so many runs over ages and ages eventually it WILL happen. Does this mean I had prediction power? Nope. Not to mention these texts are metaphorically interpreted in the way which best interprets current events. That too is a bias.
People also always tend to view the previous generations as more tame and their current one as the most corrupt. Viewing it as the height of evil, people get the feeling that "this is it". This time it's really gonna happen. It never does.
Every argument for such beliefs I've seen had some logical loophole or pitfall somewhere. Those few that didn't were basically saying obvious things such as "the sun will rise again after the night" or "the rain will eventually stop", referring to contexts of some issues of their time. What completes the mesmerizing effect of these predictions is that they're famous texts and to begin with have some supposed "power" so the slightest sensationalistic hint immediately gets taken as "fact" or "proof". I remain decisively unconvinced.
There's tons of these claims per generation, and now recently they've begun incorporating science, with ideas such as black holes colliding with earth in 2012 or some fluctiations of electromagnetic moon radiation interacting with the positrons in our thoughts on a frequency of alpha waves blah blah and whatever you want to add here to make it sound as scientific as possible, all fundamentally motivated to give credance to a claim, NOT to state an observed, true fact. All for the purpose of "appearing to know what they're talking about" and even taking up titles such as "doctor" or "professor".
Whenever I've taken a closer look at any of these claims aswell as what supports them, they fell apart. I've hardly any reason to care.
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xtremegamer:
loving the new zelda, i started a game, it was so fucking good, so i
am waiting on my friend to get home so we can start a new one together -
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Skelletonike:
I just dislike that they don't let me choose the voices before the game starts. Happened with botw as well, had to change to japanese and restart. -
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Skelletonike:
Just scanned all my zelda amiibos, took a while but didn't get anything that cool, did get the lon lon ranch hylian fabrics though.
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K3N1:
@Skelletonike, btw I ran that custom for mgs4 on the deck I'm amazed it got that far in game -
