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Harumyne

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Jiehfeng

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Relevant if we must have amusing pineapple related discussions
View attachment 183818

Sounds have meaning within them, it's where words come from. When I say ananas, that definitely energetically refers to this fruit, not pineapple. The word pineapple is just a coined word without intrinsic meaning.
 

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Sounds have meaning within them, it's where words come from. When I say ananas, that definitely energetically refers to this fruit, not pineapple. The word pineapple is just a coined word without intrinsic meaning.
All words were created at some point - the meaning only exists to the speakers of the language

And to me of course ananas sounds like some made up word - like someone tripped up trying to say banana
 

Jiehfeng

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All words were created at some point - the meaning only exists to the speakers of the language

And to me of course ananas sounds like some made up word - like someone tripped up trying to say banana

That's just ignorance speaking sadly.

Words are made out of sounds from ancient history. For instance, the baby's first word is almost always "ma". It is because it is the easiest thing to say with the baby's mouth and lips. And since it is always with the mother, the word ma was meant for the mother. All the real words for mother come from "ma", like ma became mama for some.

Animals also speak in sound, not words. Through the sound they express the emotion, sound is a very large dimension of life, we have only scraped the surface.
 

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That's just ignorance speaking sadly.

Words are made out of sounds from ancient history. For instance, the baby's first word is almost always "ma". It is because it is the easiest thing to say with the baby's mouth and lips. And since it is always with the mother, the word ma was meant for the mother. All the real words for mother come from "ma", like ma became mama for some.

Animals also speak in sound, not words. Through the sound they express the emotion, sound is a very large dimension of life, we have only scraped the surface.
Dude are you comparing ananas to mom? Haha no way.

To me pineapple inherently means the fruit pineapple.

And although words came from a long time ago - they are so morphed by the end of it as to be completely unrelated. You know Cheetah and the Greek word Poietes (maker) are closely related? But can you tell now? Not at all.
 
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Jiehfeng

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Dude are you comparing ananas to mom? Haha no way.

To me pineapple inherently means the fruit pineapple.

And although words came from a long time ago - they are so morphed by the end of it as to be completely unrelated. You know Cheetah and the Greek word Mbrotos (mortal) are closely related? But can you tell now? Not at all.

That's a different story, how words become unrelated or whatever. I was talking about the sound of the word, what is heard.
 
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x65943

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That's a different story, how words become unrelated or whatever. I was talking about the sound of the word, what is heard.
Right but the words started off as the same word and evolved to mean two very different things. It has nothing to do with some inherent meaning to sounds. After all if words had inherent meaning we would all be speaking the same language.

There is a reason words only tend to be related in language groups that have a common ancestor - that is because sounds have no inherent meaning.

Baba/dada and mama are the exception because as a baby first begins to babble a word it is taken as referring to the parents. Give me literally any other example of a universal word. You cannot there are none.
 
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Jiehfeng

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Right but the words started off as the same word and evolved to mean two very different things. It has nothing to do with some inherent meaning to sounds. After all if words had inherent meaning we would all be speaking the same language.

There is a reason words only tend to be related in language groups that have a common ancestor - that is because sounds have no inherent meaning.

Baba/dada and mama are the exception because as a baby first begins to babble a word it is taken as referring to the parents. Give me literally any other example of a universal word. You cannot there are none.

In that case I can't convince you here, you're definitely set on that mindset haha. :P
 

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Give me literally any other example of a universal word. You cannot there are none.
Mama, papa, coffee, taxi.'

These words, along with a few others, are the same in almost every language I've encountered, with slight variations in pronunciation. 'Papa', for example, is 'baba' in Chinese, 'appa' in Korean, and 'abba' in Hebrew. 'Mama' and 'Papa', of course, come from the sounds babies make.

Globalization has produced a few words which are used all over. 'Taxi' or 'Teksi' and 'coffee' or 'kafe' are the same words used worldwide, with few exceptions (in Chinese there are two different words for taxi, neither of which sounds like 'taxi'. 'Coffee' is the same: 'ka fei')

Universal/near universal words:

mama
papa
coffee
tea or cha/chai
banana
kiwi
taxi
telephone
OK

Airport (though not airplane, curiously)
autobus
television
computer
sugar
kangaroo

I find this especially interesting for items that have been around for centuries, such as coffee, tea, and sugar. The universal name suggests each spread from a single location (or perhaps two, in the case of tea/chai?) and its name spread with it, gladly embraced along with the product.
 

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Mama, papa, coffee, taxi.'

These words, along with a few others, are the same in almost every language I've encountered, with slight variations in pronunciation. 'Papa', for example, is 'baba' in Chinese, 'appa' in Korean, and 'abba' in Hebrew. 'Mama' and 'Papa', of course, come from the sounds babies make.

Globalization has produced a few words which are used all over. 'Taxi' or 'Teksi' and 'coffee' or 'kafe' are the same words used worldwide, with few exceptions (in Chinese there are two different words for taxi, neither of which sounds like 'taxi'. 'Coffee' is the same: 'ka fei')

Universal/near universal words:

mama
papa
coffee
tea or cha/chai
banana
kiwi
taxi
telephone
OK

Airport (though not airplane, curiously)
autobus
television
computer
sugar
kangaroo

I find this especially interesting for items that have been around for centuries, such as coffee, tea, and sugar. The universal name suggests each spread from a single location (or perhaps two, in the case of tea/chai?) and its name spread with it, gladly embraced along with the product.
What you are describing are loan words, and really shouldn't even be thought of as belonging to any of those languages. It's more like an english word (or french word etc) that happens to have been adopted into another language.

A fair point, but doesn't exactly touch the debate with jiehfeng about whether words have inherent meaning - since we can trace those words back to one usage usually in a prestige language heavily involved in trade of said good.

But you won't find examples of de novo creation of the same word with the same meaning in separate languages across space and time. Here is a thought experiment. If you took a group of people with no language and had them create one - would they ever call apples "apples" or squirrels "squirrels"?
 
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