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Shenmue III E3 2019 trailer and Epic Games Store exclusivity

Discussion in 'GBAtemp & Scene News' started by shaunj66, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. KingVamp

    KingVamp Haaah-hahahaha!

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    Because this isn't going burn bridges anyway.

    Calling people retarded out of nowhere is totally mature.

    Doesn't matter if it was Steam or not, they bait and switch people and it is crazy to me that people are actually defending that.
     
  2. ken28

    ken28 GBAtemp Maniac

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    basicly cause it force them leave their steam heaven which mayn of the very same people always complain about xD
    TL;DR its a store run by Epic (Unreal engine , gears of war etc)
     
  3. Armadillo

    Armadillo GBAtemp Psycho!

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    Not just lazy to change, Steam offers features people clearly value. gog carves it's own area out with drm free, but clearly a lot of people just value steams feature set over it.

    If you want, just as example, to set your pc up as console. Steam is the only store front that can boot straight into bpm and has full controller support for it's interface, that's just one thing steam offers, that no other storefront does. I can launch straight into steam, and even purchase games without ever using a keyboard, steam is the only place it's possible.

    If someone has that setup and there are a lot of people that use pc on tv these days, why wouldn't you stick with steam. No one else offers something as basic as full navigation of the store with the controller.

    If people aren't flocking to these other stores, then maybe they aren't "better alternatives".

    Force people to use something worse and you will always get pushback.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    Another pc store, that is completely barebones, missing most of the features steam has, but also epic keep money hatting stuff that was already confirmed for steam. In this case a bait and switch as well, backers got to select a steam key, now it's switched to epic.
     
    Last edited by Armadillo, Jun 10, 2019
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  4. the_randomizer

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    How much is that numbskull Tim Sweeny and Epic paying you guys to defend them?
     
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  5. leon315

    leon315 POWERLIFTER

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    to all backers: NEXT TIME THINK TWICE before to back any kickstarter games lel!!!
     
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  6. bobmcjr

    bobmcjr GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Oh boy, another game on PC delayed by a year. I hope that Fortnite and Tencent money will fizzle sooner rather than later.

    One of the common "arguments" I've seen people use is assuming that EGS is genuinely a valid and viable alternative to Steam. They downplay or are unaware of the genuine flaws of EGS under the guise of "hurr durr fanboyism". When EGS isn't a horribly insecure PoS, isn't missing basic features like a shopping cart (6 month+ road map according to EG for this!), doesn't kick players off for buying too many games at once, and isn't more or less directly funding the Chinese government's censorship division, I'll consider it. I put Epic supporters in more or less the same category as people who believe G2A is a legitimate storefront.

    When it comes to PC games, I have the patience of a saint. What's another year anyway?

    Tbh, it'd be funny if these publishers were becoming exclusives, knowing they'll sell poorly anyway, just to drain Epic's cash quicker.
     
  7. proffk

    proffk GBAtemp Fan

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    This is a classic case of money talks. Epic bribed deep silver for exclusivity. This is what happens when you plouge money into garbage like Fornite.

    On the other hand by pressuring the publisher you still might see a steam release for backers only. At the end of the day its as Triple H says "Its best for business" for Epic.
     
    Last edited by proffk, Jun 10, 2019
  8. azoreseuropa

    azoreseuropa GBAtemp Guru

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  9. the_randomizer

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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  10. T-hug

    T-hug Always like this.

    pip Chief Editor
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    Oct 24, 2002
    England
    Everyone seems to be skipping the caveat that developers get more of your money from their hard work by selling on epic instead of steam. This is why so many new big games are happily going there.

    TIL fuck exclusivity - unless it's on the store you like more :rofl2:
     
  11. Issac

    Issac I

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    Oof, big disagree.

    I don't trust EGS to last a fraction as long as Steam. I want to have my whole digital collection in one place (or two, counting GOGs DRM free oldies).

    And EGS has so many flaws they should iron out instead of buying exclusivity rights. Try to get fans by offering some nice prices, or features, instead of fighting the consumers by forcing them to use their store.
     
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  12. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Nov 21, 2005
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    Not entirely sure what to think about this. It is far from the first fan to have a crowdfunding effort essentially as a verifiable interest gauge (money where your mouth is and all that) for a larger project, often times for good financial reason (while 1 million is something I could comfortably retire on for the next 50 years or so it is not so much in big boy game dev) this fails to sit quite right where before I saw nothing in particular worth getting upset over.

    It is a thing I have been pondering for a while as well. The funny thing to write it off as is Steam fanboys or Steam Stockholm Syndrome sufferers but there is more to it, don't know how much but more.

    Anyway hopefully you are familiar with the history of Steam. If not then following a source code leak of a very early Half Life 2 build Valve announced a serious (for the time) DRM system that would ultimately be called Steam. Later on Steam would also serve as an online sales platform controlled by Valve for their products and whomever else asked, naturally for a cut. There were options for this before; the original Doom/ID software stuff doing it back when they were starting out, themselves then getting in legal trouble as machines used for a business they were all involved in before and a sales model they learned from it, being a great one here. At first Steam was little more than one of those launchers people had with games to select what game in a collection, what mods and what resolution people wanted to load with, it grew into more than that though. From where I sit still just a glorified DRM system but hey.
    For whatever reason though Steam was in at the right place, at the right time with a feature set that was pretty acceptable for a lot of companies big and small, and thanks to the considerable success of some of their games they were installed on a lot of machines (getting your stuff installed on a customer's machine/phone/whatever is half the challenge really). Over time their share of the PC game market increased considerably, so much so that it arguably took out physical sales of PC games (sadly this also saw people give up their ability to resell games) and today they are effectively a monopoly -- at one point having your game on Steam was a mark of quality for some, and today choosing not to have your game on Steam is considered a bold move that will likely cost you sales. In a technical sense they are not a monopoly as there are things like good old games, humble bundle, gamersgate and a bunch of others (I saw the chat program/service Discord has launched something like it recently) but in terms of raw market share... just no, you would have had a better chance of saying Windows did not utterly dominate the operating system market during the XP era.
    Steam's cut is quite considerable for the service they provide (it scales with income but starts at 30% and only really drops when you get into the millions of USD) so quite a few are not entirely happy with paying considerable sums to Valve for what is essentially a download service and a payment processor.

    Step in Epic (makers of the very popular decades long industry standard that is the unreal engine, and presently super popular game fortnite) who offered a smaller cut (still a fairly big one compared to some of the things I have set up for people elsewhere but hey) and also some money to offset the sales loss that not being on Steam would likely cause. Some people called that a bribe despite it being nothing of the sort by any legal definition in any country I have cared to look at the laws for, nor indeed any moral one I have ever seen. Other people noted that being on the Epic store would likely also mean no Linux nor Apple builds of games where Valve has a few things on those OSes, some people called it unfair to Valve despite them not exactly doing much for the game in question (it is not like they advertised the thing), some note that Epic's feature list is not quite as shiny as Valve's (most of what Valve has is cloud saves, as if one could not easily point a save folder into their dropbox or whatever account), some noted Valve acts as a sugar daddy for some of the Wine projects (a means of implementing Windows coding features into PC builds of Linux, BSD and such) which is true and Epic don't seem to be doing much there but such projects have long had different sugar daddies so meh, some look at Valve's API that allows some measure of easier networking and such, some look at some of Valve's other features like PC streaming and various support of controllers where basic Windows or a give game might not (because installing whatever the current take on joy2key might be is so terribly difficult), some noted Epic's involvement with the Chinese (Tencent owns a nice chunk of them), some claim Epic's security is not great (because there are not a thousand Steam exploits a year), some noted Epic's installer had a little sniff at other games installed on the system without asking (very poor taste, and not with the fig leaf excuse of DRM or anti cheat like some other tools over the years*), and some noted Epic's rough and ready approach to the world (for some reason the lack of a shopping basket on their site bothered some people, because people so frequently buy 15 games at once to save on shipping).

    *still thing my favourite every anti cheat fail was it was found an anti cheat looked for a specific string a debugger would leave in memory. One group then joined the IRC chat of a rival group and said this string in harmless IRC chat. The anti cheat then detected this and banned the rival group for cheating.

    So yeah in the end I am seeing Epic do fairly normal business practices, especially when going up against an effective monopoly, and ultimately something that does not cost the consumer anything -- it is not like you pay for Steam, it is not like you pay for Epic, the same game that would run on either will still run here (give or take things that no longer have Linux builds, or will no longer have Linux builds if they were never released). I don't like that both prevent me from reselling games trivially (I have ways around it, or in the case of Steam myself I have never had an account, nor purchased anything from them). If Steam goes under then after a small adjustment period then no great loss, if Epic fail to be so then no great loss, if Epic give Steam a bloody nose and force them to play nicely then so much the better, if they both take each other out then no great loss and I hope whatever replaces them does better. That is a win whatever way I slice it, some more than others but still a win.
     
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  13. T-hug

    T-hug Always like this.

    pip Chief Editor
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    Oct 24, 2002
    England
    steam is 16 years old - epic's store launched 7 months ago, give them chance lol
    Everyone is so quick to slaughter them and for what? For trying to bring competition against the steam monopoly?
    They are trying to change things for the consumer and developer, better all round.
     
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  14. Xzi

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    Was it too much to ask that Shenmue 3 be available on the same storefront I already bought Shenmue 1 and 2 from? Oh well, at least Timmy Tencent is providing us all with free copies from the high seas. I'll be adding the shortcut to Steam regardless.

    They are not.

    Exclusivity is the opposite of competition. It's a ham-fisted strategy being employed specifically because Epic knows their storefront can't compete on its own merits.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Jun 10, 2019
  15. bobmcjr

    bobmcjr GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Except in the case of Indie games, exclusivity money will very likely bring little benefit to the actual developers. It will primarily line the pockets of the publishers.

    Video game developers/companies are not sacred or holy. They make a product, and publishers sell it. If it is worth purchasing, consumers will generally buy it. If their money is so deserved from their hard work, they will earn it. EGS paid exclusivity seems like a cop out, as if they aren't confident in the quality of their games and knew they were making crap.

    I would also note there is a large difference between voluntary exclusivity and legally binding paid exclusivity. Exclusivity sucks, but introducing legal obstacles to solidify it is in no way a benefit. Intel was sued for such scummy behavior, but only because they were already the dominant entity in the market.

    If you are truly this against this so-called monopoly you believe Steam has, are you also this against Sony and Microsoft's walled garden ecosystems?

    If they genuinely cared about benefitting the consumer, would they keep pushing back the introduction of basic features? Would they keep failing to address security complaints? Would their exclusivity deals be so sudden and shrouded in secrecy? All EGS cares about is attempting to solidify a place in the market by any means necessary before the Fortnite money runs out. They have already had plenty of time to address these issues; instead it only shows they don't give a fuck.

    Just saying, I could make a website in less than an hour with a functional shopping cart system.
     
  16. Essasetic

    Essasetic Your local TX Fanboy

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    And I've got my popcorn out.
     
  17. StarGazerTom

    StarGazerTom GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Ain't enough popcorn on the planet to cover this firestorm
     
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  18. Idontknowwhattoputhere

    Idontknowwhattoputhere See i would put something here if i knew what to

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    7 months old and without basic things like a shopping cart
     
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  19. Essasetic

    Essasetic Your local TX Fanboy

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    hehe. That's true. I still think this is incredibly scummy of the developers to make a poll with no mention of the Epic Games Store on there and then after that. Announce its a EGS exclusive.
     
  20. T-hug

    T-hug Always like this.

    pip Chief Editor
    21
    Oct 24, 2002
    England
    But it's not exclusive, it's on PC in both instances, you just click a different icon to play it.

    No, I just don't understand the tirade of hate against a company that is trying to help game developers get a bigger cut from their work. As I said in my original post, I couldn't care less what a multiplatform game is on as long as I get to play it, and in this case, luckily everyone can enjoy it as it's on PC PS4 and Xbox at the same time.
     
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