Ryukouki Discusses! Digital Rights Management

Discussion in 'General Gaming Discussion' started by Ryukouki, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. Clarky

    Clarky Don't you know who I think I am?

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    That is easy to bypass, call Campbell several times and Meryl's frequency will be added to your list ;) Policenauts used a similar system but with symbols only found in the instruction manual.

    Anywho DRM, I don't mind it if it isn't too intrusive, eg, the Steam example again, but even with Steam there are a few games which has you signing into Steam to only sign into another service, one game that comes to mind is GTA4 where you had to sign into GFWL and Rockstar Social club if you wanted to use the multiplayer. Then again I recall when the wife bought Sims Medevil for herself on Steam and it wouldn't launch due to the Securom on it, had to resort to a no cd crack in the end from a pirate group so she could play a game she paid money for from EA.
     
  2. Vercalos

    Vercalos Member

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    Yeah. The Metal Gear Solid thing is more of a 4th wall joke than DRM.
     
  3. AngryGeek416

    AngryGeek416 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    DRM sucks in every form, Period.
     
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  4. Ryukouki
    OP

    Ryukouki See you later, guys.

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    Would you say the same as a game developer trying to get your name out there?
     
  5. Pedeadstrian

    Pedeadstrian GBAtemp's Official frill-necked lizard.

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    It's impossible to pirate Diablo III, unless you mean the PS3 version. And honestly, aside from game and expansion launches, I've rarely ever had a problem with Blizzard's servers, and I've been playing their games for almost 8 years now.
     
  6. drobb

    drobb Hunter

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    im all for drm when its beneficial and not restrictive. or when it requires an always on connection. I live in an area that only has access to satellite internet (beyond dial up) and I don't know how many people have experienced that, but its horrible. its slow compared to other forms of access and we have a daily bandwidth restriction. 250mb. daily. but everyone knows that drm really isn't going to stop the people that don't want to pay for something.
     
  7. calmwaters

    calmwaters Cat's best friend

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    You made the software/hardware: you can do whatever you want with it. But withholding it from the market is a dick move. I mean, seriously, how would you feel if *insert game you want to play* was released but was made unavailable to you? That's a crappy use of the DMCA. It's almost like region locking; you can't play it because it's unavailable in your country.

    But I'm going to bring Youtube into this as an example. Lots of music artists and television networks host their work on there and we like it. But they've grown incredibly sensitive about other people showing those videos on their channels. It is because of this that lots of of videos have had copyright claims slapped on them or have been privatized: to ensure the only money the artist receives is from his channel. And this is where people have a problem: I should know; I'm one of them. I hated the VEVO channels and the official artists channels because of all the ads they had; I preferred to watch them without ads. So this meant that I watched them on the channels of regular Youtubers. Now the normal users never made any money from the videos, but the artists convinced themselves they were losing money because people weren't watching the videos on their channel.

    It's a dick move to remove content from other people's channels just so people will watch it on your own. I would be fine if someone took a video I uploaded to my channel and put it in their own. It's not hurting anybody: but, it is nice to give credit to the person, just in case they turn out to be a great dick and report you for not giving them credit.

    Anyway, this is about digital media: games, videos, e-books - all fall under the same rules I mentioned in my last thought. Follow this, and the ones who still restrict their content will be exposed for the dicks they are. Now pirating comes into place when the dicks won't change their behaviour: in this case, the people are tired of not having this content and subsequently pirate it. It is becoming increasingly popular to do this too, which is alarming. Piracy is stealing, and everyone's parents taught their children that stealing is bad. So people who are aware that their content is being pirated should wonder if it's their fault or that the people doing this are just dicks.*

    I refer you to two examples, both of which involve Sony (go figure). Anyway, the first one was when the PSN was hacked. What good did that do people? Nothing nice; they did it because they could. Now the next one is about the remote play on the PSVita. Now what good did that do to the people? It let them play their PS3 games on the go, which is what Sony had said would happen in the first place.

    I also like using this example for actual piracy: the Spanish empire began to crumble because the English ships would steal their treasures. The big burly Spanish ships were no match for the English sloops and would crash into the rocks in the English Channel when trying to get their treasure back. The king of Spain was naturally livid and demanded that Elizabeth turn the pirates over so they could be hung. But she said no and instead knighted the pirate and his crew. And that is how England became a world power. Now, if you really want to have fun, you can take this story and give it a modern twist by comparing it to our modern piracy practices. Peace, love, and thanks for reading these long blocks of text.

    *I'm stuck on this word; bear with me.
     
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  8. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    Hmm...again a poll with a yes/no answer where my answer (and IMO the correct answer) lies in the middle.

    I've read in this thread already that DRM is okay if it doesn't put too much restrictions on the end user, and I agree to that wholeheartedly. What I don't read as much, though, is that DRM had their share of evolution as well, just as well as other parts of the gameplay.

    I had a few of those games with wheels (monkey island), codes you had to look up (early D&D games, SSF2T) or starforce-based games. They worked, all right...to motivate everyone to start pirating. Honestly...when I bought super street fighter 2 turbo, it came on 8 disks, and the 2nd had a reading error. I took it back to the store, but because the disk worked on their station (must've been something with my drive not being 100% quality) I didn't get my money back. Result: I just copied that one disk from someone else. Moreover, the game started with asking a question from the manual. This page, this line, this word. Since the font wasn't that big and there was no indication whether topic titles where included, I was thrown out of my own game more than once...until I discovered that it only asked 20 words in total. I'm fucking sure that EVERYONE who bought that game legitimately quickly created their own list (with just the page number and the word) so they didn't had to look through different pages anymore.
    The thing developers really couldn't grasp at first was that these "don't pirate games!!!" messages directly give the opposite impression ("hey! you can pirate this? COOL!!! :) ").

    Serial keys came later. And while they weren't very successful to stop anyone wanting to pirate, they had the advantage of not being too intrusive and gave you a sense of entitlement. For example: I've used quite some key generators in my time (well...if they weren't ridden with virusses, that is), but when I bought a game, I NEVER lended my serial to anyone. And this was before I even had internet.

    I remember the online controversy when bioshock required to you have an internet connection, even though it was a single player game. Okay, I could see why the "only this many installs" part was perceived annoying, but I never bothered with that (as with SSF2T earlier: if the game would nag to me that I had used the key too many times, I'd just shrug and illegally download it from the internet).

    When we look at evolution of games over the years, I think the thread of pirates is what also caused some trends. Games (even console games) are now subpar if they DON'T have multiplayer. And patches, expansions and DLC...I doubt they're just invented to counter pirates, but I'm sure it was one of the things that must've come up on every powerpointpresentation on a game-in-progress as to "why to further work on a game after it's finished".

    I also remember reading an article with a creator of sins of a solar empire, an RTS game that was popular yet had little to no DRM in it (which was VERY controversial at that time...almost to the point where it was like selling corn flakes without a box). The interviewee pointed out that "pirates don't count". For one thing, people are going to pirate it no matter what you do, and most of these guys are never going to purchase the game in the first place. So why bother spending time and effort on something that mostly just harasses the far larger amount of people that DID bought your game legitimately.
    (note: if anyone can find that article, I'd be gratefull...but I couldn't find it in an earlier discussion where it was brought up, so... :( ).

    And then steam...I must admit I was put off by the first reactions to it ("a STEAMing pile of ..."). And why would I buy something online when I could just get it for free online anyway? An online friend once said that online games where like sex: you can pay for it if you're in a hurry, but if you look around a bit and know what you're doing, it's not that hard to get it for free. ;)

    Steam proved us wrong, though. For one thing, it's easy accessible, not intrusive, often updated and pretty reliable (though it can be embarrassing if you want to play a game that has DRM from itself, so that you have to start steam to start the game and then have to join windows for live or uplay).

    As for online availability...hmm...There really should be a law that when you release a (singleplayer) game that relies on your own servers to play at all, you aren't allowed to stop hosting those servers before you release a patch that lets people play said game offline without issues. But other than that...I can't blame them.
    But what I DO can blame them for is taking a concept that works perfectly offline and then comes up with reasons why it should be online ("but diablo 3 NEEDS always multiplayer because otherwise rare items would simply be hacked". "but simcity NEEDS always online because...<whatever the reason>"*). Those are bullshit reasons and flat out bad marketing. Sorry, but either a game is an MMO or it isn't. There is no middle ground.

    *I think starcraft 2 has sort of a LAN option now, but it still requires an internet connection to start, so when hosting a LAN this is one of the things to really keep in mind.


    But all in all...I voted "yes" on this poll. The thing with piracy is that it is so common now that I fear it's undermining the entire industry (though admitted, the AAA-industry needs to think a bit if they REALLY want to keep pumping millions of dollars into realistic graphics). Not so much the actual piracy of newer releases but more the idea of "I can get it cheaper if I want to" that's been going around. We've been so spoiled with price reductions, humble bundles, old games we have missed, decent freeware and so on that everyone has so much of a backlog that I'm sometimes amazed that there are still people who buy games on release day. The industry needs THOSE sales to stay in business and we as a group are less and less inclined to buy it from them (we're too busy drowning in games we already have).


    Try playing a game on launch day. :P

    EDIT: sorry...didn't read your post close enough. :shy:
     
  9. Qtis

    Qtis Grey Knight Inquisitor

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    The difference with emulation is that the emulator tries to mimic all inputs and outputs just like the original hardware. In your case, the emulator wasn't coded to compensate the required inputs to play the game correctly (also known as anti-piracy checks, which are a bit different compared to DRM).

    But alas, I do know some cool ways of going with anti-piracy: settlers 3 had iron smelters make pigs :D
     
  10. Vercalos

    Vercalos Member

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  11. Pedeadstrian

    Pedeadstrian GBAtemp's Official frill-necked lizard.

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  12. Vercalos

    Vercalos Member

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    And regarding my issues with Diablo III, there are issues I have with my carrier and worse, my router, so every time my computer disconnects, it interrupts my play of Diablo III. I gave up on it some time in the desert region of the game...
     
  13. Taleweaver

    Taleweaver Storywriter

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    @Pedae

    Sorry, but while it discusses the same topic (and is thus interesting), it isn't the article I've read earlier. :(
    (I wish I had more to go on, but if I had more info, I would've googled it myself. all I can say is that it was from when the game was still pretty new.
     
  14. Lancia

    Lancia Newbie

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    If i were earning my life with software programming i would like to have my work protected or il fell robbed. BUT as a customer il love to have not only acces but the choice of what i do with my purchase. Take the ps3 for exemple when they removed OtherOS on it a lot of poeple resolve to piracy to still enjoy the feature. Capcom Resident Evil on 3DS save was permanent too prevent used sell but piracy take care of it again. I dont want to promote piracy but when its help again what i think is abuse of developper and dont hurt them financialy its good.

    Again remember one thing if the developer dont do money they wont continue to develop game. Make a game cost money and i dont know a lot of poeple that can live out of nothing. that what we call Capitalism

    Sry for my bad english not my primary language.
     
  15. Arras

    Arras GBAtemp Guru

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    There are many forms of DRM, some good, many bad. Online DRM for the sake of having online DRM is really really bad but if a game requires an internet connection and actually has a good reason for it, that's fine as long as it actually works as intended (so no stupid server outages like Diablo and Simcity). The "you can only install this game X times" is one of the worst types of DRM imo. Really any type of DRM that does not inconvenience the user unneccesarily, NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES, is good DRM.

    OtherOS and save file deletion are not piracy. Piracy = copying a game that you do not own through unofficial means, basically.
     
  16. Tom Bombadildo

    Tom Bombadildo G'nome

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    I forgot
    As long as I can play XYZ whenever I want without any interruptions, then DRM is fine with me.
     
  17. Lancia

    Lancia Newbie

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    i tought piracy was make software or hardware do what their not supposed to do but this is another thread. Hacking,piracy, etc... all dont have much diffenrence for me.
     
  18. Black-Ice

    Black-Ice Founder of the Church of Renamon

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    Silly Tahm.
    Pokemon Z isnt released yet :)
     
  19. ProtoKun7

    ProtoKun7 GBAtemp Time Lord Regenerations: 4

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    No, that's modification.
     
  20. the_randomizer

    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    If the DRM isn't invasive and doesn't make a legit user suffer unnecessary by forcing constant internet connection, or doesn't use unreliable servers, I see nothing wrong, like Steam, which has an offline mode too if your connection goes down. My connection goes down quite frequently due to me living in student housing and capped at 5 mbps, I can't under any circumstances, rely on games that require constant internet connections. If I do get a game that requires it, I'll just find a patch to crack the DRM. I don't care if X company doesn't like me doing it. Tough. I bought the game, I'm supporting X developer by buying it, I shouldn't suffer because of what pirates do ;)
     
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