ROG Ally launch date confirmed alongside specs and UK pricing

Xzi · May 13, 2023

Foxi4 said:
The reason why the launcher is always running and you have to use it to launch games is to upsell.

Sure, it's also a storefront. Nothing wrong with that unless it's blasting ads into your face all the time, and Steam is the polar opposite of that wherein you can default to library and never see the store page if you don't want to.

Foxi4 said:
There is nothing Steam does that it couldn’t do if it ran exclusively as a system service with hotkey interrupts. Even “universal controller support” is something that should be embedded in the OS, not handled by Steam.

Naturally, that's the most basic of basics. So it's telling that Steam had to step in to fill even that gap while Microsoft had their heads up their asses with the early days of Xbox. It's also just one small example among hundreds of features which make Steam the best gaming platform bar none. Console ecosystems will give you less AND charge you a monthly fee for the privilege.

Foxi4 said:
Operation “Crack Everything” is-a-go, reclaim the desktop.

Well that's the main takeaway here isn't it: nobody's forced to use Steam, and Steamworks DRM itself is some of the least intrusive and easiest to crack. You are however knowingly inconveniencing yourself in the process, which most users are not going to do as long as pricing remains reasonable. Helps that you can obtain Steam keys from any number of third party sites, too.

subcon959 said:
This seems to be the perfect opportunity to add my personal reason for disliking this Steam timeline... it caused the death of those beautiful big box PC releases. I have zero interest in compiling a digital library of thousands of games.. give me my big boxes and associated paraphernalia back!

I feel ya, but you can still get some physical editions of PC games from Limited Run. I'm waiting on Shredder's Revenge to ship, which not only comes in a VHS-shaped box, but also with the game on a nuclear green USB stick. Even better than a disc IMO.

tech3475 · May 13, 2023

Scarlet said:
Ahh that is interesting. Is it done that way so items have a base price, and states can individually decide how much the sales tax should be? I do remember reading something about people setting their 3DS region to a certain state to avoid paying tax.

It’s not just states but local areas, looking it up, Florida‘s general sales tax is 6% whilst Orlando‘s 6.5% and Cape Canaveral’s 7%.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I think at one point sales tax was not always applied for online purchases and was supposed to be declared by the customer, but because of people not doing this at least some states did pass laws requiring it at the point of sale.

Foxi4 · May 13, 2023

Xzi said:
Sure, it's also a storefront. Nothing wrong with that unless it's blasting ads into your face all the time, and Steam is the polar opposite of that wherein you can default to library and never see the store page if you don't want to.

My point of contention here is that I can default to my library by just turning my computer on. I don’t agree with the statement that Steam adds any additional utility to this setup besides causing choice paralysis. To me, the business model is clear - catch Steamybois lacking with sale after sale after sale so they fill up their library with “thousands of games” that, realistically, they don’t even play. They’re the video game equivalent of Barbie-chicks licking store windows in a mall because they’ve got “nothing to wear”. Thanks, but no thanks - I’ll use those CPU cycles for literally anything else.

Naturally, that's the most basic of basics. So it's telling that Steam had to step in to fill even that gap while Microsoft had their heads up their asses with the early days of Xbox. It's also just one small example among hundreds of features which make Steam the best gaming platform bar none. Console ecosystems will give you less AND charge you a monthly fee for the privilege.

Controller support in older titles is not something I usually expect, and in newer titles it’s enabled by default since, like it or not, most games are targeted for console releases first and foremost. If you don’t like console ecosystems so much then why are you trying to turn your PC into one? I never understood this. You don’t need the launcher - your OS is all you need.

Well that's the main takeaway here isn't it: nobody's forced to use Steam, and Steamworks DRM itself is some of the least intrusive and easiest to crack. You are however knowingly inconveniencing yourself in the process, which most users are not going to do as long as pricing remains reasonable. Helps that you can obtain Steam keys from any number of third party sites, too.

If a game requires me to run anything besides the game, I will pirate it punitively. I am not “knowingly inconveniencing myself”, I am setting up the game once and never touching the settings again unless there’s some kind of hardware change along the line that gives me more headroom. Double-click and go - that’s it for me. Jesus wept, PC gaming really fell off since “my day”.

Xzi · May 13, 2023

Foxi4 said:
I don’t agree with the statement that Steam adds any additional utility to this setup besides causing choice paralysis.

You'd objectively need five to ten separate programs running in the background to cover all the features that Steam provides. In 2003 it didn't have any of this, of course, and so the argument that it only adds inconvenience was stronger back then.

Foxi4 said:
To me, the business model is clear - catch Steamybois lacking with sale after sale after sale so they fill up their library with “thousands of games” that, realistically, they don’t even play. They’re the video game equivalent of Barbie-chicks licking store windows in a mall because they’ve got “nothing to wear”. Thanks, but no thanks - I’ll use those CPU cycles for literally anything else.

And I thought I was the anti-capitalist in this discussion, lol. A lot of Steam users don't play anything but the free Valve games. As for my library, it was built up over two decades from a ton of free, bundled, and steeply discounted games. Of which, only about a third were bought from the Steam storefront itself, so I think maybe it's not quite as irresistible as you make it out to be.

Foxi4 said:
If you don’t like console ecosystems so much then why are you trying to turn your PC into one? I never understood this. You don’t need the launcher - your OS is all you need.

Console ecosystems don't suck simply because they exist, they suck because they don't provide enough value to someone paying a monthly fee. Windows itself is lacking in gaming-centric features, the ones it does have are implemented better by Steam, and the only reason Microsoft made those slight concessions to begin with is because Valve steered them in that direction.

Foxi4 said:
I am not “knowingly inconveniencing myself”, I am setting up the game once and never touching the settings again unless there’s some kind of hardware change along the line that gives me more headroom.

Even just the process of finding, downloading, and installing a pirated game is more inconvenient then letting Steam do it all for you. Not by a whole lot, but every little bit makes a difference to users that aren't tech-savvy. The "open once" setup remains the same.

Foxi4 said:
Double-click and go - that’s it for me. Jesus wept, PC gaming really fell off since “my day”.

Don't be melodramatic. It was practically a meme already by the early 2000s, but PC gaming really was on its death bed. A lot of multiplat games were not getting ported, and the ones that were all ran like ass. Fast forward to today, and there are virtually no worlds left to conquer. If you want to play PS5, XSX, Switch, PC, and retro games all on one device, there's only one option. Without Valve, we would've had to wait another three plus decades for MS to finally pull their thumbs out of their asses and bring us the same kind of renaissance.

You and I could get by just fine going back to a DOS interface. That doesn't mean it would be logical, it's just our old man brains trying to get stuck in their ways. "Why carry a Swiss army knife when you could lug around twelve separate tools?" Is a question that answers itself.

tpax · May 14, 2023

Handelds with Windows are so useless. Without a quick suspend and quick resume feature, like provided by SteamOS, this is just another laptop with attached analog sticks. If I have launch a game, navigate through the menu and load a save game just to play for couple of minutes, and then quickly quit the game and go to standby when I'm done, it's just super inconvenient. In that case, I could as well play on my desktop PC.
Steam Deck will stay unbeatable for as long as Windows won't get a quick suspend and quick resume feature, or those manufacturers start preinstalling SteamOS on their devices (which will never happen). Too bad, I'd love a handheld with beefier specs than my Deck.

Foxi4 · May 14, 2023

Xzi said:
You'd objectively need five to ten separate programs running in the background to cover all the features that Steam provides. In 2003 it didn't have any of this, of course, and so the argument that it only adds inconvenience was stronger back then.

And I thought I was the anti-capitalist in this discussion, lol. A lot of Steam users don't play anything but the free Valve games. As for my library, it was built up over two decades from a ton of free, bundled, and steeply discounted games. Of which, only about a third were bought from the Steam storefront itself, so I think maybe it's not quite as irresistible as you make it out to be.

Console ecosystems don't suck simply because they exist, they suck because they don't provide enough value to someone paying a monthly fee. Windows itself is lacking in gaming-centric features, the ones it does have are implemented better by Steam, and the only reason Microsoft made those slight concessions to begin with is because Valve steered them in that direction.

Even just the process of finding, downloading, and installing a pirated game is more inconvenient then letting Steam do it all for you. Not by a whole lot, but every little bit makes a difference to users that aren't tech-savvy. The "open once" setup remains the same.

Don't be melodramatic. It was practically a meme already by the early 2000s, but PC gaming really was on its death bed. A lot of multiplat games were not getting ported, and the ones that were all ran like ass. Fast forward to today, and there are virtually no worlds left to conquer. If you want to play PS5, XSX, Switch, PC, and retro games all on one device, there's only one option. Without Valve, we would've had to wait another three plus decades for MS to finally pull their thumbs out of their asses and bring us the same kind of renaissance.

You and I could get by just fine going back to a DOS interface. That doesn't mean it would be logical, it's just our old man brains trying to get stuck in their ways. "Why carry a Swiss army knife when you could lug around twelve separate tools?" Is a question that answers itself.

Maybe I’m an odd gamer then, because I require zero programs to “do what Steam does” for me. In fact, I don’t need Steam to do anything at all - ideally I don’t even want it to launch at all until *I* want it on.

As far as console ecosystems go, say what you will, but both Gamepass and PS+ Extra/Premium bring unprecedented value to the table, though admittedly Gamepass is also available on PC, albeit with a different library of games. It’s one hell of a bargain, especially with Day 1 releases.

As for PC gaming being “on its death bed” in the 2000’s… okay, we’ll have to agree to disagree yet again. I didn’t get that impression at all - quite the opposite. I think your perception is coloured by the renewed success of consoles rather than a decline in the PC scene.

Here’s the thing - you want Steam to be your Swiss Army knife for everything gaming, which is fine, I suppose, but at that point your PC’s a console. I don’t need Steam to do anything, I don’t even need Steam to exist as a client. If I want to chat with someone (I don’t) I’ll install Discord (yuck), and by the way, so will you because the alternative sucks. If I want to customise controller options, there’s an app for that. Achievements? I’m not 5. PC is the one platform that gives you the freedom to “have it your way” - maybe I *do* want to run a separate application for everything I need, or maybe I don’t want to run any, or maybe something in-between? That’s my machine and my choice. But no, here comes @Xzi on his Steam Train telling me that daddy Gabe has me covered. Gee, thanks - now I like this intrusive piece of software slightly more… not.

I said it once and I’ll say it again - PC gamers went backwards in my estimation, the gaming experience is becoming more sanitised, more standardised, more “consolised” and more vanilla. If I need to go out of my way to run what I want and *just* what I want, that’s a problem with the platform, not with me.

Aggro-Hamtaro · May 14, 2023

I am very happy with my S23u as far as mist emulators go. But this device really looks tempting.

Ducolamia · May 14, 2023

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I wish they put a 46Wh or even 50Wh battery in this thing. It's already almost as big as a Steam Deck. Might as well add it in.
From numerous reports it appears that the Ally really struggles in battery life...which is a shame for a portable handheld.
Controversial belief, but as someone who prefers 1080p, 60fps, I kind of wish some handhelds drew back on the specs to help foster better battery life. I'm not saying pick the cheapest parts possible, but even a handheld at 720p, 60fps wouldn't be a complete dealbreaker to me if the battery life and other factors were substantial.
The only thing keeping me from getting the Ally is that + the D-Pad. Circle D-pads have always been terrible to use in my opinion.

Xzi · May 14, 2023

Foxi4 said:
Maybe I’m an odd gamer then, because I require zero programs to “do what Steam does” for me. In fact, I don’t need Steam to do anything at all - ideally I don’t even want it to launch at all until *I* want it on.

Right...as far as I know, you spend days coding your own graphics and sound drivers, but that does indeed make you an niche/fringe user. I won't kink shame by calling it "odd," but most people aren't masochistic enough to seek to add unnecessary layers of obfuscation to their gaming experience.

Foxi4 said:
As for PC gaming being “on its death bed” in the 2000’s… okay, we’ll have to agree to disagree yet again. I didn’t get that impression at all - quite the opposite. I think your perception is coloured by the renewed success of consoles rather than a decline in the PC scene.

Nah the memories of getting like one playable AAA game a year between 2000 and 2008 are quite clear. Those years were carried almost solely by World of Warcraft and the Orange Box. Late 2000s/early 2010s there was an indie resurgence on PC driven by Steam, prior to which those were the most pirated games by a significant margin.

Foxi4 said:
Here’s the thing - you want Steam to be your Swiss Army knife for everything gaming, which is fine, I suppose, but at that point your PC’s a console.

If I used my PC only for gaming, and SteamOS or big picture mode exclusively, then sure. Even on Deck there are a number of reasons to occasionally switch to the desktop, however.

Foxi4 said:
maybe I *do* want to run a separate application for everything I need, or maybe I don’t want to run any, or maybe something in-between? That’s my machine and my choice. But no, here comes @Xzi on his Steam Train telling me that daddy Gabe has me covered. Gee, thanks - now I like this intrusive piece of software slightly more… not.

Yeesh grandpa we get it, Spotify is bad because we already had eight tracks, Photoshop is bad because we already had MS Paint, and Steam is bad because we already had wonky Windows compatibility settings and manual updating/cracking. You're free to tread your own path, but software isn't "intrusive" simply because it rubs one of your neuroses the wrong way, and a thing isn't bad solely because it's popular.

To be clear: I don't care that you pirate some games, I do too. When people want to actually support their favorite developers and simultaneously get the most value possible out of their digital game purchases, however, Steam's the way to go. Game Pass is lacking in a number of ways, but still a great option for a different sort of person who only cares about playing games through once and never again.

urbanman2004 · May 14, 2023

The D-Pad still looks horrendous...

The Real Jdbye · May 18, 2023

I have to say, that is a killer price. I didn't think anybody else could compete with the Steam Deck, since Valve can afford to subsidize the cost heavily since they control the ecosystem.
Valve might have to come up with a Steam Deck 2 or Pro sooner rather than later, if they want to stay competitive. I don't really see the reason for anyone to get a Steam Deck when this is only $50 more than the Steam Deck model with the same amount of storage.
Other than perhaps preferring the simplicity of SteamDeck OS and how well it integrates with the control scheme.... But there are ways to get SteamDeck OS running on other platforms.

Shame it doesn't have trackpads though. I imagine Valve probably patented the concept, but they might be willing to license it out. I have a Steam Controller, and while the trackpads on the Steam Deck are much smaller, I imagine it would work in much the same way, it makes games that are designed to use mouse controlled camera or which have mouse-only menus/GUI elements much more playable and enjoyable. Not quite as good as keyboard & mouse for all games, particularly ones that need a lot of buttons, like MMOs. But nearly as good as keyboard & mouse for most games.

Scarlet · May 18, 2023

The Real Jdbye said:
I have to say, that is a killer price. I didn't think anybody else could compete with the Steam Deck, since Valve can afford to subsidize the cost heavily since they control the ecosystem.
Valve might have to come up with a Steam Deck 2 or Pro sooner rather than later, if they want to stay competitive. I don't really see the reason for anyone to get a Steam Deck when this is only $50 more than the Steam Deck model with the same amount of storage.
Other than perhaps preferring the simplicity of SteamDeck OS and how well it integrates with the control scheme.... But there are ways to get SteamDeck OS running on other platforms.

Shame it doesn't have trackpads though. I imagine Valve probably patented the concept, but they might be willing to license it out. I have a Steam Controller, and while the trackpads on the Steam Deck are much smaller, I imagine it would work in much the same way, it makes games that are designed to use mouse controlled camera or which have mouse-only menus/GUI elements much more playable and enjoyable. Not quite as good as keyboard & mouse for all games, particularly ones that need a lot of buttons, like MMOs. But nearly as good as keyboard & mouse for most games.

My major gripe with it is that the body looks like the screen was intended to be 16:10 but they had to change it last minute. I'd guess due to a struggle to get a 16:10 panel with those specs? Either way a bit of a let down since I do think 16:10 is the future (and the past? I feel like it was pretty popular a while ago too).

Either way I've got a pre-order in, so I'll get a review written up regardless of whether ASUS can send us something ahead of launch.

The Real Jdbye · May 18, 2023

Scarlet said:
My major gripe with it is that the body looks like the screen was intended to be 16:10 but they had to change it last minute. I'd guess due to a struggle to get a 16:10 panel with those specs? Either way a bit of a let down since I do think 16:10 is the future (and the past? I feel like it was pretty popular a while ago too).

Either way I've got a pre-order in, so I'll get a review written up regardless of whether ASUS can send us something ahead of launch.

For gaming I think 16:9 is better. Since it's more standardized and works with just about everything. Including emulators for newer systems. It's been a while since I used a 16:10 monitor so I don't know exactly how the game compatibility is, but there are many games that give you only limited or no resolution options, which probably wouldn't support it.
The black bars may be small when playing 16:9 only content on a 16:10 screen, but it still feels like wasted space.
Same with media consumption - YouTube, TV, movies etc. Might not be the primary use of a Steam Deck, but that stuff is pretty much all 16:9.

Metoroid0 · May 20, 2023

Steam deck is still a thing though... I got mine for $400 and its the best console/pc i ever had. So many fun times.

Post automatically merged: May 20, 2023

The Real Jdbye said:
For gaming I think 16:9 is better. Since it's more standardized and works with just about everything. Including emulators for newer systems. It's been a while since I used a 16:10 monitor so I don't know exactly how the game compatibility is, but there are many games that give you only limited or no resolution options, which probably wouldn't support it.
The black bars may be small when playing 16:9 only content on a 16:10 screen, but it still feels like wasted space.
Same with media consumption - YouTube, TV, movies etc. Might not be the primary use of a Steam Deck, but that stuff is pretty much all 16:9.

16:10 is also a standard and universal. Tall games as well as wide. You know you can display 16:9 on 16:10, but if you do the same you get bigger bars and mo0re unused space than on 16:10.
plus, 4:3 emulated games look 15% bigger on 16:10 than on same size 16:9.

Valve is not stupid.

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