1. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer
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    Re "heroes"... yeah I am always dubious when I see industrial action. One time decades back it might have made sense but almost everything I drill into in recent years... not so much. Game dev is likely to be even worse -- earlier when I was meandering about saying rich I was thinking largely of how what are theoretically to be highly paid devs taking rather low pay, in conditions that are not what one might call leisurely, to work in the expensive parts of California, New York and Washington State/the rest of the US west coast), all because it is games and to some then somewhat sexy. To my mind then it is somewhat self inflicted, especially as said same geographic areas will usually have a whole bunch of open positions solving much the same technical problems, in a 9-5 with maybe an on call bit, for a lot more money... I might have some sympathy for the GED sporting shelf stacker in a one horse town where it is starve or that but for games programming and related fields... nah. I have seen any number of other professional industries or companies within them face massive hiring problems and ultimately tank because they treated people like shit and word got around*. A little walkout is not going to do much here.

    *it has now been some six years since Extra Credits was going on about it

    and I have been reading about it for far longer ( https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ongst-creditors-owed-more-than-USD1-4-million being 2011, 2009 https://uk.ign.com/articles/2009/02/20/dice-2009-ensemble-post-mortem ).

    A favourite thing to ponder is how the game makes the community, not anything resembling the other way around. For DOTA/MOBA type things then as they often go in for hidden/non obvious mechanics (don't know about league but last hitting, bunching and what have you are examples of this), have long play sessions with low player counts aka a bad player will tank a long game you might only have the option to play a few of this evening, have no means of really developing a long term community (this means you are pretty much left with your stats, said stats being tied to team wins)... with all that there is no way you are not going to end up with stat obsessed elitist pricks.
     
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  2. snails1221

    snails1221 GBAtemp Fan
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    The only notable game they've made is League of Legends
     
  3. Xzi

    Xzi All your base are belong to the proletariat
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    It does not surprise me that Riot is a shitty place to work, they're owned by Tencent. Same people that are soon to own a majority of Epic Games, too. Hope all those publishers/devs that sold their soul for an exclusivity payout enjoy sweatshop-level working hours.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  4. Whole lotta love

    Whole lotta love GBAtemp Regular
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    solidarity with the workers at riot
     
  5. Silent_Gunner

    Silent_Gunner Lost Wanderer Who Sees No Evil
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    They made League of Legends, AKA that game everyone plays because their friends play it on their laptops that can't run F.E.A.R. at Max settings at 60FPS. (at least, my old craptop couldn't)
     
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  6. Sonic Angel Knight

    Sonic Angel Knight GBAtemp Legend
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    Is that like the only game? Seem like the company get attention for only one game which is probably impressive and at the same time crazy. :blink:
     
  7. Silent_Gunner

    Silent_Gunner Lost Wanderer Who Sees No Evil
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    Well, if you've read the Gulag Archipelago and consider that China owns
    I honestly don't know. It wouldn't surprise me if they just supported one game it was that successful. I mean, this riot (*sarcastic laughter* (except not really, it's not getting as crazy as something like Occupy Wall Street, Ferguson, and Charlottesville as far as I'm aware)) is big enough news to make it on the news in the sidebar!
     
  8. kuwanger

    kuwanger GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    Business is toxic to any form of protest that paints it in any sort of negative light, most of all from its own employees. Business is toxic to any person who protested their former employer as the fear of SJW*, regardless of a basis for such, makes them more of a liability and less of an asset. So, anyone who protests risks that toxicity. Those in white collar jobs with industry specialty probably don't want to be effectively blacklisted while protesting over totally baseless claims given the difficulty of transitioning to another industry or being relegated to blue collar work. Having said that, there are definitely people who can be easily lead by a few agitators who wish to lead a riot**.

    * They used to call it anarchist, communist, unionist, an agitator, etc. The point is, there's always a self-described word one can paint as a negative.

    ** Does that count as a joke?
     
  9. Snugglevixen

    Snugglevixen Princess of Cuddles
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    They only have 1 game. There's rumors they might make a second game iirc
     
  10. Lodad

    Lodad Member
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    Right? I was under the impression that such clauses in signed contracts are null & void if they try to bypass or nullify laws or impede peoples' rights.
     
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  11. Pipistrele

    Pipistrele GBAtemp Fan
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    I usually try to avoid labelling people, but what you're doing here is pretty much the case of victim blaming: from trying to undermine the issue ("everyone complains about tiniest things"), to listing anecdotal evidences ("I saw men being fired because of women before"), to trying to shift responsibility ("maybe it's not higher ups being unethical, but workers sucking at job"), all while ignoring a crapton of legitimate reports and complaints during the course of several months. I can agree that situation isn't exactly transparent at the moment, but considering all we know, possibilty of RIOT actually treating their female employees like shit is much more believable in grand scheme of things.
     
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  12. Izual Urashima

    Izual Urashima GBAtemp Regular
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    On one side, I'm all for affirmative actions and protests when work conditions are too hard, especially against forced arbitration (a thing so anti-worker and/or pro-company that only America allows it), and, knowing the harsh situation of many game devs, I hope it'll at least end better for Riot employees.

    On the other side,... Is it me or "gender discrimination" is becoming more and more a joke and/or a tool for women to get more income even where it doesn't apply ? Years ago, the gender gap was very real, with a gap around $1000-$1500, but now, with all the gender cases being opened in the recent times, we are hardly over a difference of $200... In favor of women ! And that's not counting all the other advantages men do not have because "they aren't women". Gender discrimination should work both ways, but people speaking in favor of this are shamefully bashed around USA.
     
  13. DBlaze

    DBlaze I don't know what i'm doing.
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    Here's a crazy idea: stop working for a company that exploits its employees and/or is unethical as hell.
     
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  14. Pipistrele

    Pipistrele GBAtemp Fan
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    What is even the point of this rant in context of the situatuon though? Concerns voiced out by female Riot employees are both perfectly clear and legitimately unpleasant (putting it lightly); they also have solid enough ground to deserve public awareness. Are you trying to say that we shouldn't look into this rather serious situation because "women are getting manipulative and also male discrimination exists"?

    Here's crazier idea: finding a new job is really hard, getting to previous level of salary is even harder, and you may also screw yourself big time when it comes to insurance or geographical benefits. People aren't just staying on crappy jobs because they're too lazy to resign.
     
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  15. DBlaze

    DBlaze I don't know what i'm doing.
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    If a company time and time again shows it will not change its ways and you choose to stay with them rather than finding another job, then that's your choice. Just don't be surprised they don't change their ways and you will still be treated like shit even if you go to court or walkout.
    The company knows what it can and can not do without getting shut down, and that's pretty clear in RIOT's case.

    I still would rather have a "hard" time finding a new job rather than being broken down by some shitty company for years.
     
  16. Pipistrele

    Pipistrele GBAtemp Fan
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    As much as I get your arguments, I still think it's an easy and naive thing to say for someone who's not an actual employee of big-budget game development studio.
     
  17. Izual Urashima

    Izual Urashima GBAtemp Regular
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    This is a very dubious argument.

    What it basically says is that "people not working in game dev studios have no rights to say anything related to people working in game dev studios because they can't understand it". Don't you understand things like empathy, a basic understanding of working in a company and of video game coding ? Anyone can, if they will it, and people who already worked for some company and who are interested in video games have an easy proficiency to it thanks to related interests and experiences, and their arguments aren't invalid, easy or naive because they aren't coming from first-hand places. Or else no one could complain about cops badly interpreting justice, doctors failing to save someone or things like that.

    I'm not saying Riot employees' concerns are to be put lightly. I'm saying we do not need to cater and take care of only one gender. Both male and female employees have hardships (as I lightly mentioned earlier with forced arbitration, which affects both men and women), and both need to take care of in order for the result to be beneficial to everyone. None deserve more than the other.
     
  18. DBlaze

    DBlaze I don't know what i'm doing.
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    Except you have no clue about what I do and who I do it for, you can trust me when I say there's enough pressure, if not too much at times, for me considering the sensitivity of the systems and software I work on.
    Game-dev industry is a well known shit hole, but so are a lot of other industries and other dev related industries.
    I know the feeling of the "crunch" all too well, and it sure isn't a friend of mine.

    It has crossed my mind multiple times to just drop what i'm doing because of the amount of things sometimes asked of me, but considering what and who I do it for, i still find satisfaction in my job. The only thing I don't have to deal with, luckily, is blatant sexism and harassment.
    For all I know those people who walkout also actually find some satisfaction in what they do, but are just horribly (which it seems like) mismanaged. And we all know how easy it is to get anything changed in management; it's not
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  19. Pipistrele

    Pipistrele GBAtemp Fan
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    It's not like I entirely disagree with you on it - it's just that the rant feels really out of place, considering that poor treatment of female employees was and still is one of the primary reasons for the scandal. Trying to use an actual story of female mistreatment as a platform for anecdotal rants about male mistreatment is just kinda tone-deaf, at least in my opinion.

    Not when it comes decisions that can drastically affect your life, you know. Resigning from crappy-yet-secure job and launching your (and your family's) future in a sea of financial uncertainty is exactly the kind of thing where throwing bold verdicts just like that is kinda naive and optimistic, since you're not the one who's severely affected by said decisions in the end result.

    As I said above, a lot of your text (especially regarding satisfaction from your job and similar things) comes from your own opinions, while we're talking about factual well-being of other people. Just saying them, "Yeah, go get another job, it's simple as that" is clueless in itself when it comes from someone who's not going to deal with consequences of doing so.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  20. DBlaze

    DBlaze I don't know what i'm doing.
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    As I said in my closing line, the most important one, it's not going to change at that company. Not even with court cases, not with walkouts, not with anything. They've proven that themselves multiple times now.
    And yes, my suggestion then is to just flatout leave that company. I sure as hell know I would leave a company that would continue to treat me like shit when i'm working for it.

    Getting another job isn't clueless when a company keeps proving to be unable to change for the better for their employees, and in the long run probably better for personal well-being of anyone.

    You're shortsighted to make claims about what kind of experiences other people have had or haven't had, stop making assumptions about other people's experiences.
    If you would suggest keep working for a shitty company that just won't listen, then to be honest you're not thinking in wellbeing, you're thinking in prayers that it someday might change, rather than taking action AFTER they have proven themselves to be unable to change.

    Get the point now?
    I only suggest changing jobs if the COMPANY WILL NOT CHANGE. I am not suggesting to change jobs for every fart a manager might make in any general direction.

    That is my opinion, formed from personal experiences. You can call me clueless all you want, but if I hadn't acted the way I did in my own past, I probably would've off'd myself a long time ago.
     
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