Release of the Mueller report is imminent, AG Barr has in-hand, judiciary committees being briefed

Discussion in 'World News, Current Events & Politics' started by Xzi, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Guru

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    Sure, that's fine. I was responding to things you said about healthcare, but we can arbitrarily draw the thread-derailing line here.

    My point was just that the free market objectively did not solve systemic problems like redlining, for example, and it doesn't solve our healthcare problems.
     
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  2. leon315

    leon315 POWERLIFTER

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    lOl 27 pages of some liberal muricans fighting each other on keyboard about ''free'' medical care :P

    come to live in EU, we have free medical assistance!
     
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  3. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    I'm not a "murican", I'm in Europe, it sucks lol. It's also not "free", I hate when people say that. That's besides the point though.
     
  4. Jack54782

    Jack54782 GBAtemp Fan

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    Free medical care is not free as it is usually paid for by taxpayers. It may be free at the point of delivery, however saying that it's free is misleading.
     
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  5. leon315

    leon315 POWERLIFTER

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    if have to buy cold pills then it costs 10€, but last time i injured my feet, from the medical assistance to antibiotics were are all free, literally, NO JOKE.
     
  6. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    It's the medical equivalent of PS+. You get free* games** every month!

    *Subscription cost is £49,99 a year
    **Good games not guaranteed

    It wasn't free, the cost of your treatment was distributed across all tax paying citizens.

    Now, back to Mueller. Anyone else thinks this will boost Trump's re-election chances in 2020? I can't help but think this is free advertising for the president, which I'm more than okay with.
     
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  7. leon315

    leon315 POWERLIFTER

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    dude, i knew it's on traxpayers' shoulders, but just look at those muricans: certainly sure they have to pay tax from wages and still have to pay medical insurance to access basic medical assistance, then you think how great EU is.

    Poland is all about political, since your country is not run by communists anymore, things will start to change :)
     
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  8. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    The Polish healthcare system is an absolute mess. It was a mess before the communists left and it continues to be a joke after they left. It's the legacy of the Polish People's Republic that should be dismantled, broken up and privatised. I'm no fan of the healthcare systems present in the EU - they're inefficient and put undue burden on tax payers. This isn't a thread about healthcare though, so let's stick to the topic - healthcare in the EU has little to do with President Trump.
     
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  9. SG854

    SG854 ♪(๑ᴖ◡ᴖ๑)♪

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    It did in Apartheid Africa. With an openly racist government, with White Supremacy reining high, that denied blacks basic human rights. And it was illegal to hire blacks in certain occupations. Yet blacks workers outnumbers white workers.


    It did in 1948 where Black Unemployment Rate was the same as White unemployment rate, during a time before the Civil Rights movement and during Jim Crow. Yet Black unemployment is higher then whites today in a less racist time, unless people would want to argue that Blacks had more opportunity during the racist Pre Civil Rights. These were times when the minimum wage law meant nothing because of high inflation, so the minimum wage laws at the time had no effect and it was like there was no minimum wage in effect at all. So it wasn't minimum wage helping them out. A Employer that needs workers will put his racism aside to hire Blacks because money is more important then his Racist beliefs. If a Black is a good worker generating lots of money for them, then they wont miss this opportunity.



    The segregation of Blacks on buses was a government problem not a free market problem. Private owners of street cars, buses, and railroad companies in the South lobbied hard against Jim Crow laws when they were being written, and challenged them in court after they were passed, and refused to listen to the laws. They resisted so hard that company employees were starting to be arrested for not enforcing these laws and a president of a streetcar company was threatened with jail if he didn't comply. Some of these white company business owner didn't do this because they cared about civil rights, they did it because they were loosing money from their black customers. The segregation and not serving blacks was because government intervened in the free market, telling people who they can and can't serve.

    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    This is what I was saying, Noam Chomsky was saying that this will boost Trump. The shot themselves in the foot for pushing this without any evidence at all for two years pretending there was all this evidence of collusion. He will use this to fight back.


    Trump knows how to fight back. When Hillary attacked for his grab em' by the P**sy comment this empowered him rather then hurt him. He held a surprise event with Bill Clintons accusers and saying look at the people Hillary is tried to silence. Look at what the Clintons did to these women, for me it was just a comment, but I never did anything like this, they did action. And the Women said they support Trump and that actions speak louder then words. That shut Hillary Clinton up right away and any hurtful impact to his election the Grab Em' by the P**sy comment would have had.


    He knows how to fight back. And he waits till they strike first, he hardly strikes first, so it gives him more leeway to act like he does because he's responding is self defense.

     
    Last edited by SG854, Apr 24, 2019
  10. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Guru

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    The bus boycotts are a great example of when it does work, but that doesn't mean it always works or even largely works.
     
  11. Xzi
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    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    Even if it was slightly rushed and not thorough, I'd gladly take what healthcare the EU has now over the potential to go in debt for life over one serious injury or illness. In that sense, America doesn't even really have a healthcare system, it's more of a system of exploitation.
     
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  12. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    It's almost as if personal responsibility and life success had something to do with each other.
     
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  13. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Guru

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    Are you suggesting that it's necessarily the fault of the individual if he or she cannot afford healthcare?
     
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  14. Xzi
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    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    Almost as if. And then you remember that the current president got there by being born rich and failing his way to the top. There are no "temporarily embarassed millionaires," only rubes who don't recognize the degree to which the system is rigged.

    I should note that this is by no means a complaint levied on my own behalf. I was born to a middle class family that has very slowly but surely worked its way to upper-middle class. The vast majority in America don't have the support and advantages that I did, though.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Apr 24, 2019
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  15. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    As I said earlier in the thread, health insurance is a lot like gambling. So is most of life. You can take the chance and not buy life insurance when you're young, spry and your rates are low, and you may end up never needing it. You can be cautious and buy health insurance, perhaps you'll need coverage in the future. Life is all about chance, expecting others, or the system, to account for every possibility is just silly. I might lose everything I own to an electrical fire when I'm out at work for all I know, but I don't expect the state to foot the bill. The state, or your neighbours, the tax payers, are not responsible for your well-being - you are, and even then, the wheel of fortune turns in unpredictable ways.
    Finally! Something about Donald Trump! The Trump Organisation is an umbrella corporation with 515 subsidiaries, he was on charge of more companies which were eventually sold off. On the flip side, 9 of his companies either failed or went bankrupt. On average, 90% of start-ups fail within the first few years of operation. Meanwhile, Donald Trump has a 98.3% success rate so far. Pretty good odds, if you ask me - I don't see the fumbling you mentioned.
     
  16. Xzi
    OP

    Xzi Virtual Bartman

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    He would've been entirely bankrupt roughly three times over if not for his father constantly bailing him out. And then later when he made a habit of refusing to repay loans to US banks, they stopped lending to him altogether. He's been delinquent or failed to make payments several times with Deutche Bank as well, which makes you question why they would continue lending to him at all.

    He managed to bankrupt multiple casinos, tried and failed to sell steaks at the Sharper Image, and has had his "college" and his "charity" shut down, both for being fraudulent.

    Then there's the issue of him stiffing his workers and contractors near-constantly, as has been reported about through the years time and time again.

    It all just loops back to the issue I spoke about earlier: neocon/neoliberal elitists could never understand how the rest of us live. They don't operate under the same justice system that we do. And because they never see any consequences for stupid behavior, they remain stupid.
     
    Last edited by Xzi, Apr 25, 2019
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  17. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Guru

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    Not having homeowners insurance is a mistake. Not being able to afford health insurance is symptomatic of a systemic problem that needs to be corrected. In addition, homeownership is a choice. Whether or not you have to deal with your health is not a choice.

    Your false analogies aside, I don't want to live in a country where people are dying because systemic problems make it so they're are unable to afford necessary care.
     
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  18. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Not having insurance, home owner's or health, is a calculated choice which may or may not have consequences, like every decision you make in life. It's a matter of perspective.
    They operate in the exact same system you do, they just happen to have money.
     
  19. Lacius

    Lacius GBAtemp Guru

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    For a lot of people, it's not a choice. That's the problem.
     
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  20. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    You're missing the point. It's not my fault that it isn't. It's not your fault either. It's nobody's fault. We've been through this, that's why I told you there's no point in discussing it again earlier. You take the position of protectionist Robin Hoodism and elect to allocate other people's money towards helping those who had bad luck in the game of life, I on the other hand believe that people should be left to their own devices and if they want to contribute to the unfortunate, they should have ample opportunity to do so without being burdened by the state for their contribution. These are two diametrically opposed positions that cannot be reconciled, it's an ideological difference, and no amount of evidence, pros, cons or discussion can sway either of us one way or the other, making the "debate" infertile and silly.
     
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