Reason #673 why I now really f*cking hate Sony.

[cenotaph]

If I understand the root of the lawsuit as well as I think I do, this is about securing SCEE's profits. It's a well known truth that Europe tends to get things later than say the US or Japan. Stores like Lik-Sang facilitate the sales of products not yet available to Europeans thus removing said sale from the European market.

... probably quite true. I've always wondered why we Europeans have had to put up with prices that are 1/3 (at best) higher or so, but one theory that always comes to mind is that they need to make up for the losses they make in the NTSC regions. For example, if I want a PS3 on launch, I'll have to shell out what translates into 800 USD of my currency. My PS2 was somewhere around what would be 499 USD today (accounting for inflation) when I bought it, six months after launch.

I was thinking I'd skip buying the PS3 locally and instead import the low-end model (which won't even be marketed here) as I'd save a considerable amount by doing so (and it wouldn't be as impractical as console import has been in the past due to region lockouts), but apparently Sony's doing its best to keep me from it.

Well, if they don't want me to buy their products, I won't.

 

[HeatMan Advance]

The arrangement between retailers and publishers are different than a random person with no business licence selling things they don't want. I'm sure you've seen products in stores that read "Not for Resale" or heard of MSRP. Rules are different under business.

This isn't exactly the same but When Sony is ready to sell a product in another region but places like Lik-Sang is already selling there then it disrupts how Sony wanted the game distributed. Think about games like Jump All-stars. In Japan only Nintendo and Jump have to deal with the licence issues. In America those characters are divided among several companies. Why should Lik-Sang be able to benifit from multiple territories while the publisher is confined to one?


Those aren't laws, those are agreements between Sony, publishers, and retailers. It isn't illegal for anyone or any store to sell a game marked "no resale", however it may breech an agreement. Major game retailers in the USA such as Walmart, Gamestop, EB, ETC. are basically forced into agreements with game publishers saying, you can't sell this before than, you can't sell the import versions this, etc etc etc. Breeching those agreements will certainly get you into trouble with the publishers, but not necessarily with the law, unless there were specific law abiding contracts involved.

I would like to add, the court ruling in question(the only one Lik-sang actually lost in regards to this matter), they did not even show up for, since they could no longer afford to defend themselves in court.

Yeah, so think about it. How was Lik-Sang getting Sony products to sell if Sony didn't want them disributing them?

I honestly don't know the answer but I would feel that it must play a major factor in this situation. These places always had a black market feel to them so I could never understand what kind of agreements any publisher could have with them.

 

[Sick Wario]

i disliked sony before, but this is too much
don't they understand that for a LOT of people not in north america/europe/japan lik sang was the only way to get gaming hard/software?!
PLUS all the rare and collectable consoles and accessories ONLY available from lik sang?
really sony MUST be trying hard to piss off the world this last year...
just release ps3 so it can bomb and the shares drop to $5 USD already

 

[Darkspark]

Considering the Sony execs themselves order their Japanese PSPs from Lik-sang, I call hypocrites.

Even sony execs that want a PS3 cannot get one, because every unit produced already has a customer.
That I read from an interview of head of sony.
----------
"Phil Harrison, head of worldwide studios at Sony Computer Entertainment Europe says that Sony decided to delay in Europe as it is the most complex market for them to distribute consoles.

The European region is made of 104 countries that have different safety standards and different languages. The large number of countries makes it logistically difficult to distribute the consoles, he said.

In contrast, Mr Harrison said, North America consists of three countries with 2 main languages. In addition 80% of all sales come from 20 chains of shops making it easier to distribute the consoles.

Geographically it is also closer to China where the consoles are assembled. Japan, the other region that will see PS3s on shelves in November, is also a more homogenous market, he said.

Like America it is geographically closer to the factory.

"Sony felt it was better to delay in one market rather than risk failure in three markets and ending up disappointing everybody," Mr Harrison told the BBC News website.

Mr Harrison said that he also personally regrets the decision, as he will no longer be able to have a PS3 in time for Christmas as Sony is sending all production models out to their customers."
-------
Hope this answers a lot of questions about importing etc.

Their weakness is that some of them *shock* like games as much as anyone else, and will do what normal people would do to get their hands of a nice piece of kit.

 

[Strokemouth]

... probably quite true. I've always wondered why we Europeans have had to put up with prices that are 1/3 (at best) higher or so, but one theory that always comes to mind is that they need to make up for the losses they make in the NTSC regions. For example, if I want a PS3 on launch, I'll have to shell out what translates into 800 USD of my currency. My PS2 was somewhere around what would be 499 USD today (accounting for inflation) when I bought it, six months after launch.

I was thinking I'd skip buying the PS3 locally and instead import the low-end model (which won't even be marketed here) as I'd save a considerable amount by doing so (and it wouldn't be as impractical as console import has been in the past due to region lockouts), but apparently Sony's doing its best to keep me from it.

Well, if they don't want me to buy their products, I won't.

Oh, they want you to buy their products, alright. They just want you to buy the version that is being developed and distributed for your own region.

 

[Hero-Link]

doesnt this destroy the ideia of a region free console?
Like.... you have a region free console, but you cant buy games from other regions... where does this leave you? Oh i know... "ITS A REGION FREE CONSOLE, FIRST EVAH!!!" people rush to buy it... although you cant buy games from other regions, they kill the import shops first.

 

[Youkai]

Considering the Sony execs themselves order their Japanese PSPs from Lik-sang, I call hypocrites.


Even sony execs that want a PS3 cannot get one, because every unit produced already has a customer.
That I read from an interview of head of sony.
----------
"Phil Harrison, head of worldwide studios at Sony Computer Entertainment Europe says that Sony decided to delay in Europe as it is the most complex market for them to distribute consoles.

The European region is made of 104 countries that have different safety standards and different languages. The large number of countries makes it logistically difficult to distribute the consoles, he said.

In contrast, Mr Harrison said, North America consists of three countries with 2 main languages. In addition 80% of all sales come from 20 chains of shops making it easier to distribute the consoles.

Geographically it is also closer to China where the consoles are assembled. Japan, the other region that will see PS3s on shelves in November, is also a more homogenous market, he said.

Like America it is geographically closer to the factory.

"Sony felt it was better to delay in one market rather than risk failure in three markets and ending up disappointing everybody," Mr Harrison told the BBC News website.

Mr Harrison said that he also personally regrets the decision, as he will no longer be able to have a PS3 in time for Christmas as Sony is sending all production models out to their customers."
-------
Hope this answers a lot of questions about importing etc.

Their weakness is that some of them *shock* like games as much as anyone else, and will do what normal people would do to get their hands of a nice piece of kit.

There shouldn't be much of a problem with the languages cuz in Europe barely everywhere you have to learn english in school since some years so every gamer should already be able to understand english so why not just do anything in english ? English is the language of the World (even if German only had one vote less when they where "searching" for the world language many years before

)

I know some GameCube games that came out here like Megaman were Japanese with English sub ... i think this would be easy for any publisher just to make it in english or with english sub and anyone would be happy (only those 1 or 2 % of ppl who are to stupid or to lazzy to learn english would have a problem)

like you can see my english is pretty bad but at least i can understand barely anything and i tried mostly to get games in english cuz the translation sucks all the time ... so just make everyones live easyer and do anything in english ...


thats my opionion and sorry for "killing" your eyes with my engrish

 

[imgod22222]

Youkai, you didn't kill my eyes with your engrish. You just killed the whole language.

 

[Hypnotoad]

The vast majority of you calling for boycott will still buy Sony products. Many of you will buy a PS3.

I won't.

 

[Hitto]

if I saw someone selling my product to Japan I wouldn't care
That's it, you wouldn't care. But imagine you didn't want it to be sold there, and someone was doing it against your will.
Wouldn't it seem right that you'd try to stop them from doing that by all means necessary?
You made the product, shouldn't you have the last word on where it should be sold?


No, no, no, dude. You don't want something sold in xyz-istan, well it's not gonna happen. Never gonna happen. This is just sony being the character who's suffering from hubris, and let's hope it's a greek drama.

I'm going to sound like a rambling liberal yelling FREE TRADE! FREE TRADE! And such, but clearly this is a case of regulation gone too far. Who supplied lik-sang with the merchandise? Was it stolen merchandise? No it wasn't. Were the consumers unhappy or ripped-off by lik-sang? No, they weren't. The UK justice system just told sony "ok, go ahead and gouge prices as much as you want", and that's not what I'd consider good news if I were interested in a sony product or british. Yet, even my seething hatred for anything concerning perfidious albion pales in comparison to such business practices, if we can call strongarming, "business".

What effectively happened here, is that a private company trolled the justice system enough to drive a company out of business. Ever played poker against some cocksucker who's richer than you and will keep raising and raising and raising the bets until you're forced to fold, even though you had a better hand?

After such a display of arrogance and disdain for the consumer, who's to blame if an internet shitstorm happens? Think sony're gonna go after Ebay, now? Or the very next online store which will be based in a seedier place, probably some fiscal paradise? Because that didn't solve their problem, if there was any. Or maybe their problem was "we've still got a good reputation among gamers!", or trying to be more evil than Nintendo was at their peak.

Edit:

If only the masses knew how much this impacts people like us. Then NO ONE would buy from sony.
Actually, they'd still buy it anyway because, as you said, it affects the minority of us who import games, not them.
QUOTE

ATM ppl buy from Sony because their ultra expensive and some people think more expensive = more quality.

Err, no. Sony is a name that is on various items of great quality (and others no so much) that, albeit expensive, are usually trustworthy.
But a company and it's products are only remembered by what they do that's great or amazingly bad and up to now, Sony hasn't had much of the latter.

True story, my ex brother in law was telling me how easy to use his sony "mp3" player worked, he just needed to copy his MP3's to a program, than converted them to ATRAC and then he could copy them on his walkman. And the best thing is, the salesman told him sony's DAPs were the very best on the market, which is why it offered "more value" than an iPod. (read, much, much less disk space but a brand name) for the same price as an iPod (which seems the most sensible choice, provided you know your way around rockbox because I'd rather chop my own dick off than use iTunes again, and even though the brand name inflates its price as well)

So you are correct on this, the unwashed masses will keep buying sony products.

 

[CCNaru]

Ummm.....although the last half of your post makes as much sense as I did when I was dirt drunk in college back in the days...let me try to get this straight....Liksang offered great customer service at (of course, nothing new, every single store operates this way) an inflated price due to import duties and profit for them to even offer the service so people outside of Asia can have access to Japanese games and that makes them a shitty store....because they're trying to make money as a business and you don't like it. Let me know if I got that right. Also region protection is a perfectly legitimate reason for modchips, why not? Many people in the US want to play Japanese games but cannot due to region protection, and we all know how many games stay Japanese exclusive.

sigh, of course it is, but does sony think of modchips as a device to rid of regional protection? no...htey view it as a copied game running device...
and afaik dont know anyone actually use it that way - i mean buy the imports...

and of course they're trying to make money? well they can have your business then...oh wait, no, lol.

and did i complain about their customer services? shit, i don't like their price, compared to other shops i've seen, so i bitched, and you come at me like what... sure you got the business part right, but from a store in hong kong doesn't really get my sympathy. must've been teh others, but i really am indifferent.

 

[tama_mog]

no one's coming @ you like anything, your responses and reasoning just make little sense. I use modchips for backups as well as many imports that's sitting on my shelf that I buy. So do many people I know, so people do use modchips for that purpose (though I do not argue the fact that it's the main purpose). They need to make profit and stay afloat as a business too, no one starts a business to lose money, that's just silly. Do they do their usual price gouging? I'm sure @ times but it's nothing new but doesn't change the fact they're one of the very limited choices people have to conveniently import games. No one is asking for your sympathy, if anything I'm just asking you state your reasoning better with some thought.

 

[Extreme Coder]

Last week, I was out with a friend, and we had a little chat of why Sony is better/not than Nintendo or LG or Samsung.
" Don't you understand? Sony products are more expensive because they are much better and have a higher quality than of competitor products. It's not possible for a cheaper product to be better than the more expensive product."
I don't think my friend would work out very well in a marketing department would he?

So yeah. I guess Sony has already began brainwashing people

 

[assassinz]

Damn! Sony f***ed up!

 

[bennyx8903]

big bully ...

 

[DeMoN]

Someone might have already said this but I think Sony knows that they're gonna get owned by Nintendo in the near future so they're doing whatever they can to get their hands on some money. lik sang isn't the only company that was recently sued by Sony, divineo got ordered to pay $9 mil I think, how a business would be able to withstand that is beyond me.

 

[Hypnotoad]

Last week, I was out with a friend... "It's not possible for a cheaper product to be better than the more expensive product."
I don't think my friend would work out very well in a marketing department would he?

Nope, but he makes an excellent consumer. Bravo!

 

[spotanjo3]

FUCK! Then dont buy sony consoles and sony games at all! Let Sony loses their fucking money! What an asshole, Sony!!!!!!

 

[Kissell13]

Boy am I glad that i have pirated every piece of sony software that I have ever cared to use.

Also as a side thought: Companies need to stop wasting time and money trying to stop these kind of different region transactions and anti-piracy methods. Spend the money on advertising and other venues. As far as I am considered if I wanna pirate a game/music/movie/software/anything I will get it. Companies spend millions on anti-piracy measures and there is no stopping the people that want to pirate their product. I will refer everyone to the pc game Half Life 2. This game was widely spoken to be uncopyable/pirateable. With the addition of Steam the game was supposedly unpirateable. Now seeing as I was playing the game less than 24 hours after it was available in the stores, using a pirated copy which was easily gotten from the internet, it makes me laugh at all the wasted time and money spent in developing Steam and whatever other anti-piracy measures involved with the game. In the end it was pirated as easily as any other piece of software available for download. So back to the point. If sony would just use its head and spend their money on advertising and other means of attracting people to buy their products they would be much better off. Picking on poor lik-sang has only further tarnished their reputation with the consumer world. Not too mention the hugely inflated pricetag for the ps3.

I for one will not be boycotting sony products. I will however not purchase any sort of unit or software from them until a method of circumventing their copy protection is available. When that point comes let the piracy begin.

Just a thought
-Kissell13

 

[leetdood]

Boy am I glad that i have pirated every piece of sony software that I have ever cared to use.Â

Also as a side thought: Companies need to stop wasting time and money trying to stop these kind of different region transactions and anti-piracy methods. Spend the money on advertising and other venues. As far as I am considered if I wanna pirate a game/music/movie/software/anything I will get it. Companies spend millions on anti-piracy measures and there is no stopping the people that want to pirate their product. I will refer everyone to the pc game Half Life 2. This game was widely spoken to be uncopyable/pirateable. With the addition of Steam the game was supposedly unpirateable. Now seeing as I was playing the game less than 24 hours after it was available in the stores, using a pirated copy which was easily gotten from the internet, it makes me laugh at all the wasted time and money spent in developing Steam and whatever other anti-piracy measures involved with the game. In the end it was pirated as easily as any other piece of software available for download. So back to the point. If sony would just use its head and spend their money on advertising and other means of attracting people to buy their products they would be much better off. Picking on poor lik-sang has only further tarnished their reputation with the consumer world. Not too mention the hugely inflated pricetag for the ps3.Â

I for one will not be boycotting sony products. I will however not purchase any sort of unit or software from them until a method of circumventing their copy protection is available. When that point comes let the piracy begin.

Just a thought
-Kissell13

Not to mention Steam-Down, which actually made Valve pay for the delivery of the pirated goods.