RANT about current CFW standing and frustrations.

JayBae

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What do you peepz think? What are Ideas you have to improve things? What changes to some Apps do you wish would happen, and what limitations are you frustrated with?

tenobobr.gif

The Nintendo Switch is pretty powerful when it comes to CFW, but sometimes it feels more trapped by limitations than any other modded system I've ever used, I'm happy that what can be done currently exists, don't get me wrong, but its strange how we've gotten this far into modding it, yet are still lacking a way to fully take this thing over... Nintendo sure made a pretty handy device, even tho we've broke this far in, we still have yet to crack the safe in the back room!

And before you go about saying "OMG THESE PEOPLE MAKE THIS STUFF IN THEIR FREE TIME, BLAH BLAH" or the "OMG THERE IS LIMITATIONS, THEY CAN'T DO THAT", "blah blah that's not CFW blah blah that's Homebrew blah blah", it's all meant in it's general form, rant about CFW or Homebrew, It's all game, trying to derail just cause you want to correct someone, that's not what this post if for. Obviously I'm already aware of all of that, you're not helping throwing that stuff in lol.

Being stuck in that box of thinking will never make us expand or try new things! Just cause it's not done yet, does not mean it's not gonna be possible later! Everything has the possibility to be impossible, Until you finally do it...


Anyways.... My rant... Related to some Homebrew limitations/annoyances...


I know you can add toggles in our cheat file by setting button presses to hold or push to make a cheat work and all that. That's actually pretty useful in some cases. Tho this method is somewhat limited, there are only so many controller buttons, kinda wish this was just a feature by default in the EdiZon Tesla Overlay menu somehow. Like in the menu when it says on, it's on, and when you turn it off it just simply turns the cheat off, no need for a button press or a visible off code to be shown...

Some codes were not made to work nicely with a controller button press in some cases... I unno. It works for a code that requires an on the fly choice, but what if it's something that's always on... Also I could see this causing conflicting button combos if you're using more than one cheat at a time in some cases, and having to remember every button to push to do something would be crazy if you're using multiple codes.

Also would be nice if there was a set formula for how to lay things out, so cheats stay constantly formatted, so there is no confusion between users.

Also there is not currently a way to auto toggle a code off, Like the code Max Pokebux in the BDSP cheats or whatever, you just have to turn it on and off again using two separate codes, a button hold or press is pointless for this cheat, cause you still have to hop in the menu to turn it off after cause it's no longer needed thus making the toggle redundant. kinda wish you could just click it once in the menu and it'd knew to auto turn it off on it's own after that one click, just make it flash on for a second and off again on it's own...

Let me walk you thru how this code and many like it work.
You have two codes

[Max PokeBux (ON)]
[MaxPokeBux (OFF)]

To turn it on, you turn the first cheat on, it applies the cheat the second you do that, so you turn it off.... But the code is not off, you have to THEN click on the off code and turn it on, it undoes the previous code when you do this, then you have to turn it off again.... So many extra unnecessary steps...

Plus the fact there is not a nice visible way to add notes to each cheat to explain it's use, kinda wish you could push X in the EdiZon Tesla overlay menu for info on a cheat, to see how to use it, or explain in better detail what it's for [if not fully obvious]. Maybe supplying a accompanying text file that has a line for each code, so when you push X on that code, it finds the same line that code appears on in the accompanying text file, and displays it on the screen, and you just push B when you're done and it just hops back to the previous cheat menu page.

so using my previous example, it would work something like this.

You put your selection over "[Max PokeBux (ON)]", simply would push X, and it hops to the next page and simply says:
"This code obviously is used to give you the max amount of in game money".
After you see that page, you then push B to go back to the previous page. Now you know what that cheat does! This would be a nice feature cause sometimes a cheat needs to be explained, and Tesla or EdiZon Overlay has a limited space for text... so you can't even fully describe easily something that may not be as obvious as this example...

To expand on this example, there is a cheat for BDSP to get a shiny pokemon by holding L on an encounter, pretty simple, but there is a catch to this cheat, it can set your starter to shiny when you acquire it at the start, but only if you press and hold L AFTER you click that you want that pokemon to make it shiny, if you don't do that, it fails to work, and in my case it str8 up crashed my game when I was doing it wrong. if there was a Press X for info, and I went to that cheat, and it said:

"This Cheat makes pokemon encounters shiny when you encounter them, NOTE: This code also works on your starters if you hold L right after you select that pokemon. Warning: This code potentially has the ability to crash your game."...

That would of all be nice information to know before using it, When I first did it, I thought the cheat did not work, and was broken, someone had to explain to me the timing of when to hold L for me to get it to finally work on my starter.... A person not even in that post would have never known that, never used the code in that manor, and would assume it's broken.... Information is important sometimes...


Another example is the [Insta KO (Hold ZR)], the catch with this one, is if you hold it, and the enemy pokemon is faster than you and happens to go first, it backfires and KO you instead... would have been nice if there was a note that would have explained this from the start! lol

Anywho..

Kinda miss how the cheats worked on my 3DS, it was cleaner, had no off codes, just simple off and on toggles in the menu, and some cases a hold button. that junk was implemented even in the small ugly simple Rosalina menu lol... But in the fancy overlay ones that came later on, for example the one ACNL had, it was all nice, super easy to use, and could tell you exactly how to use a code, and let you set hotkeys on the fly. Shame we have nothing like this fully implemented yet on the switch. I do understand the Tesla menu has very limited space to run and all, maybe that's why it's not done yet/ever. :wacko: oof.


Not really complaining, or maybe I am a lil bit, sorry... I am thankful there is some type of cheating/ AR type code available for games, I just feel it's rather messy with little to no optimization, or ease of use in mind. I kinda have a hard time understanding why that is...

I'm just venting my frustrations of said limitations, or the lack of optimizations for ease of use in general, if it's because of limitations, that's fine, I can still vent about that tho. I do still use all the current tools available and I'm happy for them, and I'm happy people exist that are willing to make these neat things. Seriously, none of us would be here without you peeps!



Also here, have some useful things that do improve on the existing overlay!

A fork of EdiZon Overlay edited by some awesome peep that allows collapsible Sub-menu lists! Wow, This exists, and it's so Nice being able to collapse my cheat categories, and navigate my cheats so much more easy than scrolling for days trying to locate the right code!


And a link to my BDSP Cheat file I edited to use the neat Sub-menus!, all the codes come from the awesome BDSP Cheat Database post, and the beautiful wounderful people that make them! Check it out!
 
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masagrator

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Also would be nice if there was a set formula for how to lay things out, so cheats stay constantly formatted, so there is no confusion between users.
I don't even know how I should understand that.
Atmosphere cheats are using gateway formatting - the same one used for 3DS CFW from what I see.

had no off codes

I see also cheats on 3DS that have off and on versions.
https://github.com/JourneyOver/CTRPF-AR-CHEAT-CODES/blob/master/Cheats/WarioWare Gold (GLO)/00040000001D1C00.txt

You sure you just don't understand how cheats work, and you're comparing Switch cheat that is freezing value that game doesn't constantly update to 3DS cheat that is writing value to place that is constantly updated by game?

Turning off cheat means stopping its execution. To bring back old value you must provide additional cheat if game is not refreshing constantly this place. This is true for both Switch and 3DS, even Cheat Engine on PC.


Plus the fact there is not a nice visible way to add notes to each cheat to explain it's use
This is because dmnt:cht doesn't support notes. The same is for 3DS cheat engine.
Homebrew must add external support for notes. Edizon Overlay is not doing that since it's using only dmnt:cht to retrieve cheats and apply them.

So most of this ranting is not about CFW, but existing homebrew.
 
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JayBae

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I don't even know how I should understand that.
Atmosphere cheats are using gateway formatting - the same one used for 3DS CFW from what I see.



I see also cheats on 3DS that have off and on versions.
https://github.com/JourneyOver/CTRPF-AR-CHEAT-CODES/blob/master/Cheats/WarioWare Gold (GLO)/00040000001D1C00.txt

You sure you just don't understand how cheats work, and you're comparing Switch cheat that is freezing value that game doesn't constantly update to 3DS cheat that is writing value to place that is constantly updated by game?

Turning off cheat means stopping its execution. To bring back old value you must provide additional cheat if game is not refreshing constantly this place. This is true for both Switch and 3DS, even Cheat Engine on PC.



This is because dmnt:cht doesn't support notes. The same is for 3DS cheat engine.
Homebrew must add external support for notes. Edizon Overlay is not doing that since it's using only dmnt:cht to retrieve cheats and apply them.

So most of this ranting is not about CFW, but existing homebrew.
you totally broke everything I said down, but way out of context. lol

So most of this ranting is not about CFW, but existing homebrew.
"What changes to some Apps do you wish would happen, and what limitations are you frustrated with?"
 
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JayBae

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you totally broke everything I said down, but way out of context. lol
The apps would not run without CFW, it's all the same thing my dude. Homebrew is all part of it. Used CFW in general.
....So why not make this a blog post instead of a thread?
Isn't this what a forum is for? Conversation? If I wanted to make a dumb blog post, i would. lol

I refer you to your own title.
"and frustrations" Context is important. Frustrations can cover Homebrew too, being homebrew would not be a thing on the switch without CFW.

Also the cheat limitations are fully on Atmosphere, the CFW. lol So it is actually relevant. Atmosphere has a limit on how it handles cheats, And EdiZon and breeze and other cheat tools have to respect those limitations set by the CFW, It's directly related.

if ya don't wanna talk about things that bother ya, and just want to correct everyone, more power to ya, but that's not the subject at hand here. lol

EDIT: Triple-posting? Use the edit button. -Foxi4

EDIT: @Foxi4 WTF Is Triple-posting? and why are you editing my posts? :O
 
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masagrator

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CFW is from developer perspective a separate thing than homebrew. CFW allows using Switch OS at development level + adds additional features. But as homebrew dev you're not limited to what CFW can, you are limited to what OS can. Libraries like libnx and Atmosphere-libs are helping you make homebrew much easier. Libnx is not Atmosphere dependent.

So no, it's not all the same, my dude.
 

JayBae

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CFW is from developer perspective a separate thing than homebrew. CFW allows using Switch OS at developer level + adds additional features. But as homebrew dev you're not limited to what CFW can, you are limited to what OS can. Libraries like libnx and Atmosphere-libs are helping you make homebrew much easier.

So no, it's not all the same, my dude.
It's all relevant and related my friend. We're not being overly technical here. If ya'd stop trying to derail the conversation, that would be awesome.
 

JayBae

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So next useless thread where ignorant people will talk bullshit because they don't know technicalities behind CFW and homebrew. Ok, it's not a thread for me.
thanx for the direct insult, it may be pointless to you, but in the end there is no problem with me sharing my personal oppinion. if you agree with them or not. No one said ya had to be here. If ya can't follow context, that's not on me.

No one can be wrong here, it's all opinions, lack of knowing how things work fully, does not disqualify you from talking about what bothers ya.

Anyways.... My rant... Related to some Homebrew limitations/annoyances...
:rofl2:

EDIT: Triple-post. -Foxi4
EDIT: @Foxi4 once again, wtf is triple-post even mean? and why are you editing my posts? :O
 
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DocKlokMan

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The limitations you mentioned about cheat toggles, notes, auto-off, etc, are all features Atmosphere doesn’t limit. All the cheat engine does is read/apply the value or operation from/to the memory region you tell it to. Everything else like how you activate the cheat, how it’s toggles, how it’s displayed, formatted, or notated is in the jurisdiction of the homebrew you’re using to do those thing. In most cases that’s Edizon. If you just want to rant, that’s cool, you can use this thread for that. If you want a discussion with the possibility of your suggestion actually being made real, then you should be voicing this in the Edizon thread or discord server as that’s where it applies to.
 

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The limitations you mentioned about cheat toggles, notes, auto-off, etc, are all features Atmosphere doesn’t limit. All the cheat engine does is read/apply the value or operation from/to the memory region you tell it to. Everything else like how you activate the cheat, how it’s toggles, how it’s displayed, formatted, or notated is in the jurisdiction of the homebrew you’re using to do those thing. In most cases that’s Edizon. If you just want to rant, that’s cool, you can use this thread for that. If you want a discussion with the possibility of your suggestion actually being made real, then you should be voicing this in the Edizon thread or discord server as that’s where it applies to.
How dare you state that his opinion is wrong. He already said:
No one can be wrong here, it's all opinions, lack of knowing how things work fully, does not disqualify you from talking about what bothers ya.
But again based on his statement, your argument is correct. Now I am confused which is correct and which is wrong.
Somebody must be wrong here lmao.

To OP, if you are unsatisfied with Atmosphere, you are free to clone Atmosphere and make a new branch. Once you have an improved version, you can create a pull request to the main branch.

It is the beauty of an open-source project.
 

Tomato123

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From the perspective of someone who doesn't use cheats, I don't really see the point you're trying to make here. As far as I know, cheats are just a file in the contents folder for each title which Atmosphere then loads up. Couldn't someone just make a homebrew app to manage these files if it doesn't exist already and if it was such a big problem?

The Switch has been broken open pretty wide to the point that other operating systems can run on it. Atmosphere also (If I remember correctly) is almost a full re-write of Horizon OS at this point, so anything could be done theoretically.
 
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CompSciOrBust

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From the perspective of someone who doesn't use cheats, I don't really see the point you're trying to make here. As far as I know, cheats are just a file in the contents folder for each title which Atmosphere then loads up. Couldn't someone just make a homebrew app to manage these files if it doesn't exist already and if it was such a big problem?
They're talking about dmnt cheats which are applied to the game's memory when it is running. If you've ever used trainer tools on PCs it's kind of like that. The contents folder is used for replacing assets in games.
The Switch has been broken open pretty wide to the point that other operating systems can run on it. Atmosphere also (If I remember correctly) is almost a full re-write of Horizon OS at this point, so anything could be done theoretically.
I think they're talking about boot time CFW without a hard mod. They said everything has the possibility of being impossible until you do it. This of course completely overlooks the fact that it is entirely possible to prove something is impossible. Computers are mathematical systems and mathematicians have developed complex ways of certifying with 100% confidence that a system does what it is intended to do (anyone who has taken an Intro to Logic module as part of a CS degree can tell you that). You can't do that to every single line of code in a system because it's a long and costly process but it's not out of the realm of possibility that Nintendo have done that to their boot loader. The only two ways we will get boot time CFW in the future is if Nintendo fucks up on an immense scale while updating the boot process for a future firmware revision, or we somehow obtain the private signing keys.

Whenever someone complains about this it's obvious that they only have a surface level understanding about how systems are exploited. "Yeah but have you tried this?" by the nature of computers there is only a finite number of things you can do to get control over a system. Once you have exhausted all possibilities you know that something is impossible to hack [1]. I haven't looked in to the Switch's boot process myself because I don't have the time nor skills to do so but given Scires and various other devs have poured thousands of hours in to understanding how it works I think it's probably safe to trust them on this.

[1] From the software side. If you have access to the hardware and the equipment to do so I don't think there's any way to stop you from hacking any device by deconstructing it atom by atom and modifying it as you see fit. This is an extreme example obviously but it shows that with hardware hacking you never know what might happen. Software is 100% Maths and logic though and that's something that we can be confident is secure.
 
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JayBae

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The limitations you mentioned about cheat toggles, notes, auto-off, etc, are all features Atmosphere doesn’t limit. All the cheat engine does is read/apply the value or operation from/to the memory region you tell it to. Everything else like how you activate the cheat, how it’s toggles, how it’s displayed, formatted, or notated is in the jurisdiction of the homebrew you’re using to do those thing. In most cases that’s Edizon. If you just want to rant, that’s cool, you can use this thread for that. If you want a discussion with the possibility of your suggestion actually being made real, then you should be voicing this in the Edizon thread or discord server as that’s where it applies to.
well why no one utilized any of it yet then?

Hopefully someone will update SXOS one day.
Yeah, it's a shame the peeps that made it did not open source it when they all got bit by nintendo, at least let others update it and keep it alive at least.
 
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sley

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I also think the way you use cheats on Switch is very unintuitive and didn't have good experiences with it,
I don't consider this to be a problem caused by CFW as a whole though and was confused why the post went from cfw in general to a specific example in Pokemon lol.

The Switch Homebrew scene is probably my favorite because now almost every app haves a nice UI and you can do actual useful stuff with it rather than gimmicks like it was on the 3DS. (Game Streaming, Save Backups, Third Party Controllers, Emulators that got serious performance etc.)
 
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xIce101x

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The switch has been blown open wider than any console in recent history. Your complaints seem to be more with the homebrew for cheats, not the CFW itself. Atmosphere isn’t limiting anything in regards to cheats.
 
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