Racial police killings, still not an issue for juries in the US

notimp

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*Eh* Want a twinkie on your way out of court Mr police officer, sir?


Also Trump started to use eugenics in his speeches. (See end of video.)


edit: More detailed account of what happened:
 
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Taleweaver

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This about Breonna Taylor? People should be mad at her boyfriend.
Oh, so defending against invaders who don't announce themselves isn't allowed(1)? I thought that was the whole reasoning gun ownership was allowed in the USA.

Oh, and don't start with the 'but they announced themselves as the police' defense. Neighbors back up the claim that they didn't, and they had a warrant that didn't require them identifying themselves.
So no... We don't get mad at victims. Only at people going their way to paint them as criminals every time the police screws up...

Massively, in this case.


(1): EDIT: there is some wiggle room on this part. See the discussion below for more...
 
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shamzie

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Oh, so defending against invaders who don't announce themselves isn't allowed? I thought that was the whole reasoning gun ownership was allowed in the USA.

Oh, and don't start with the 'but they announced themselves as the police' defense. Neighbors back up the claim that they didn't, and they had a warrant that didn't require them identifying themselves.
So no... We don't get mad at victims. Only at people going their way to paint them as criminals every time the police screws up...

Massively, in this case.

Her boyfriend shot at the police, she was a victim of her boyfriends actions. There's also multiple reports that they did knock and announce themselves, so who do you believe, the drug dealers or the police?

Also the title of this thread is extremely misleading, i could quote stat after stat proving black people are not disproportionately killed by the police but i'd be wasting my time. I saw no threads about David Dorn or Cannon Hinnant, just race baiting as per.
 
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Monty3233

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Her boyfriend shot at the police, she was a victim of her boyfriends actions. There's also multiple reports that they did knock and announce themselves, so who do you believe, the drug dealers or the police?

Also the title of this thread is extremely misleading, i could quote stat after stat proving black people are not disproportionately killed by the police but i'd be wasting my time. I saw no threads about david doran or cannon hinnant, just race baiting as per.

You didn't see no threads because those responsible will be held accountable if the shoe was on the other foot you see similar outrage.
the problem is police killing with immunity they shot and kill a white child with autism because he was having a mental episode
these officer cannot perform the task our taxes ask of them and their mentally is shoot first because they know nothing will happen to them but a paid vacation through our tax money and settlement for the family from our tax money.
Idk if anything about the boyfriend being a drug dealer is true but knowing that cops plant evidence and would do anything to cover their own ass i wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the case but just like the majority of us i don't know what truly happened and what led up to interaction that day only ones that do are the boyfriend and police officers
 
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Hanafuda

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Oh, so defending against invaders who don't announce themselves isn't allowed?.

They did announce. Confirmed by a civilian neighbor eyewitness. I don't know where you're getting your information, but the grand jury got sworn testimony from people who were there. Excuse me if I take their conclusions as more reliable than yours.
 
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gregory-samba

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They were both drug dealing scum who had been under investigation for some time for their illegal activities. If they would have been law abiding citizens the police wouldn't have had to raid their residence and bullets wouldn't have gone flying. I have no sympathy for these sorts of people and am glad the officers only got slapped on their wrists. If you want to play stupid games like drug dealing you win stupid prizes, like misery and death.
 
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Taleweaver

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Her boyfriend shot at the police, she was a victim of her boyfriends actions. There's also multiple reports that they did knock and announce themselves, so who do you believe, the drug dealers or the police?
Okay, show them sources on that announcing, then (same for you, @Hanafuda). this report tells they used a battering ram to enter the door . If that's your definition of knocking, I'm curious how thick your front door is. :rolleyes:

You also accuse Kenneth Walker and /or Brenna Taylor of being drug dealers, but I have no idea where you get that idea from. The only drug dealer in this story is Breonna's former boyfriend (Jamaicus Glover)... And he isn't even in the story!
The police had the idea that Glover might be at Breonna's location, so they busted the place. On the other hand, Walker assumed the invader was Glover, so he defended himself as any law abiding citizen (in the USA) would do in case of a home invasion.

I really don't want to paint police officers as a bunch of gunslinging cowboys, but in cases like this you can't escape the comparison. 32 freaking bullets... THIRTY-TWO! Frankly, you disgust me that you even dare say that those guys were somehow not responsible for their actions. They shot Brenna - just as innocent as you and me - five times. And you say that I should believe their word over the house owner? Fuck you... Any righteous police officer would be embarrassed to the core to have these guys as colleagues. But in the US, shooting someone innocent five times isn't as bad as accidentally shooting into the apartment next door. It's it really that hard to believe why people believe that maybe it has something to do with her skin color? :angry:
 

notimp

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They did announce. Confirmed by a civilian neighbor eyewitness.
One out of 12 (?) witnesses heard that, two called the police afterwards, and the recording of the husband calling the police afterwards, unaware that police just killed his wife also doesnt sound fake or staged.

Police was not in uniform, forced entry order probably was invalid. As in didnt exist.

A wrong account of bullets in the victim was given.

Who shoots at someone forcing entry - one shot - if they believe its the police, and they themselves have no reason to, and go free in he aftermath?

Who unloads entire magazines blindly into a room through a window?

Well, gbatemp knows. It must have been the tweeked out n****, agressive because of their genes. I'm so freaking sick of people taking stances based on hating black folks. Hanafuda what on earth has brought you to this?
 
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Hanafuda

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I'm so freaking sick of people taking stances based on hating black folks. Hanafuda what on earth has brought you to this?

Where did I express any such thing? A grand jury was convened, they were presented with the evidence and testimony of witnesses, and they made a decision. You weren't there, I wasn't there. I accept their decision and I read nothing insidious into it. All I did was post video of the press conference where the State's Attorney General announced what the evidence showed and the conclusions the grand jury reached.

I'm not going to report your insinuation that I'm 'taking a stance based on hating black folks,' but it's there for anyone to see. Good luck.
 
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mr allen

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Police was not in uniform, forced entry order probably was invalid. As in didnt exist.
I don't want to debate on whether the cops were justified or not but I am genuinely curious on why you think the order doesn't exist. I've actually never seen someone claim that, I just see people argue whether they should've been given the okay in the first place or not.
 

deficitdisorder

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Where did I express any such thing? A grand jury was convened, they were presented with the evidence and testimony of witnesses, and they made a decision. You weren't there, I wasn't there. I accept their decision and I read nothing insidious into it. .

I'm not saying that you are wrong about this case specifically just want to point out a grand jury decision means almost nothing when trying to decide what actually happened. There is a somewhat famous legal quote that "a grand jury would 'indict a ham sandwich." They only sees what evidence a prosecutor choices to show them. There is no other side in these proceedings. In cases like this were police are considered for trial there is often conflict on interest as the two sides rely on each other. Many prosecutors have a good relationship with law enforcement and won't present any possible incriminating evidence for feat of damaging those relationships. (One popular reform idea is all police related trials be done by an outside jurisdiction to avoid those issues but that is a topic for another day)
 

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Well... At least you replied. Fair enough : I was, technically speaking, wrong. They might have announced.

Here's the thing : only one in twelve neighbors heard that. That one person that claimed he heard that only said so after saying he didn't hear it twice. His current story is that they only announced it once. Considering it's 3AM and the police pounded on the door for nearly a minute, chances are high Walker didn't hear it (that's still that witness talking) . That's just one of the many oversights of the police, but that weren't mentioned when the jury made their decision.

So your comment of "the grand jury got sworn testimony from people who were there." is at best misleading (meaning : it's bullshit). They just cherry picked the one witness whom they could convince to change his story.

From this source:

In what was probably the most frustrating part of Cameron’s press event, he cited a single witness who claimed to have heard the officers identify themselves as police. I spoke with Taylor’s lawyers in June, who at that time had interviewed 11 of her neighbors. Many lived in the same apartment building as Taylor. According to the lawyers, no neighbor heard an announcement. The New York Times interviewed 12 neighbors. They found one — just one — who heard an announcement. And he only heard one announcement. He also told the paper that with all the commotion, it’s entirely possible that Walker and Taylor didn’t hear that announcement. Cameron neglected to mention any of this.

Moreover, in a CNN interview Wednesday night, Walker’s attorney, Steven Romines, said the witness to whom Cameron was referring initially said he did not hear the police announce themselves. And he repeated that assertion in a second interview. It was only after his third interview that he finally said he heard an announcement. That’s critical context that Cameron neglected to mention



EDIT: @notimp: you're attacking the wrong guy, here. From what I can see, @Hanafuda is either playing devil's advocate, a hanging judge or a true neutral party here. We can't really fault him for believing a jury over some random guys on the internet.
Now @shamzie and @gregory-samba are a different story. They blatantly assume that if a police officer shoots someone, that person retroactively became a drug dealer somehow.

@mr allen: from that same article: the no knock warrant existed and was real. It shouldn't have been and it was sloppy work (Breanna was a soft target instead of a suspect or criminal), but but that doesn't make the warrant illegal. As in: if I'm a cop working with a judge and follow proper procedure to write such a warrant for you(r house), then that warrant is legal, independent of whether or not you're innocent or not, and (important) even if it's excessive force or not.
 
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shamzie

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Well... At least you replied. Fair enough : I was, technically speaking, wrong. They might have announced.

Here's the thing : only one in twelve neighbors heard that. That one person that claimed he heard that only said so after saying he didn't hear it twice. His current story is that they only announced it once. Considering it's 3AM and the police pounded on the door for nearly a minute, chances are high Walker didn't hear it (that's still that witness talking) . That's just one of the many oversights of the police, but that weren't mentioned when the jury made their decision.

So your comment of "the grand jury got sworn testimony from people who were there." is at best misleading (meaning : it's bullshit). They just cherry picked the one witness whom they could convince to change his story.

From this source:

In what was probably the most frustrating part of Cameron’s press event, he cited a single witness who claimed to have heard the officers identify themselves as police. I spoke with Taylor’s lawyers in June, who at that time had interviewed 11 of her neighbors. Many lived in the same apartment building as Taylor. According to the lawyers, no neighbor heard an announcement. The New York Times interviewed 12 neighbors. They found one — just one — who heard an announcement. And he only heard one announcement. He also told the paper that with all the commotion, it’s entirely possible that Walker and Taylor didn’t hear that announcement. Cameron neglected to mention any of this.

Moreover, in a CNN interview Wednesday night, Walker’s attorney, Steven Romines, said the witness to whom Cameron was referring initially said he did not hear the police announce themselves. And he repeated that assertion in a second interview. It was only after his third interview that he finally said he heard an announcement. That’s critical context that Cameron neglected to mention



EDIT: @notimp: you're attacking the wrong guy, here. From what I can see, @Hanafuda is either playing devil's advocate, a hanging judge or a true neutral party here. We can't really fault him for believing a jury over some random guys on the internet.
Now @shamzie and @gregory-samba are a different story. They blatantly assume that if a police officer shoots someone, that person retroactively became a drug dealer somehow.

@mr allen: from that same article: the no knock warrant existed and was real. It shouldn't have been and it was sloppy work (Breanna was a soft target instead of a suspect or criminal), but but that doesn't make the warrant illegal. As in: if I'm a cop working with a judge and follow proper procedure to write such a warrant for you(r house), then that warrant is legal, independent of whether or not you're innocent or not, and (important) even if it's excessive force or not.

I'm not retro actively assuming anything, I'm basing it off the FACT there was a warrant for his arrest based on dealing drugs, and the fact he opened fire on the police tends to back those facts up, but hey, who cares about facts when you can cry racism.
 
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deficitdisorder

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I'm not retro actively assuming anything, I'm basing it off the FACT there was a warrant for his arrest based on dealing drugs, and the fact he opened fire on the police tends to back those facts up, but hey, who cares about facts when you can cry racism.

In the middle of the night, at the sound of someone breaking down their door (allegedly unannounced), Kenneth tried to defend him home using his 2nd amendment rights. How exactly does that even remotely backup claim of drug dealing? The police did not have a warrant for Kenneth Walker, they weren't even there for an arrest. They had a warrant to search for evidence regarding drugs dealing for Breonna's Ex-BF. Neither Breonna or Kenneth had an involvement.
 

smf

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Her boyfriend shot at the police

The constitution allows you to bear arms. The boyfriend didn't make a mistake, the police did.

Someone impersonating a police officer breaks into your house then you should treat them as any other intruder. You should always assume that they are impersonating a police officer, because police officers shouldn't be breaking into your house at night for no reason.

If you don't like it then get rid of gun ownership & get smarter less racist police.

I'm not retro actively assuming anything, I'm basing it off the FACT there was a warrant for his arrest based on dealing drugs, and the fact he opened fire on the police tends to back those facts up, but hey, who cares about facts when you can cry racism.

Can warrants only be served by breaking into a property at night? It sounds a really dumb move, reckless even. They shouldn't be protected from prosecution if they put peoples lives at risk by being dumb and reckless. All of the police officers should be tried, like they would be if you turned up with your mates and one of them shot someone.

The police then lied in their reports, so they were obviously guilty.
 
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The Catboy

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This about Breonna Taylor? People should be mad at her boyfriend.
Why? If guns are intended for self-defense and protection, then why should people be mad at him for using his gun to defend his home from a break in? The police broke into his home, he defended himself from them.
 
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